Naïve Old Fart 9,515 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 On 07/02/2023 at 5:48 PM, Chen G. said: I'm continually torn between which score I think is the better one: that of the original film or that of The Empire Strikes Back. Let me help you out, with that: THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK is the (much) better score. Happy to oblige GerateWohl and Jurassic Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Is it, though? Tallguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,061 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Ye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,515 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Yea! Oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 11 hours ago, Schilkeman said: I find the score to Jedi 100% on the same level as the other two, and an expanded release in good audio quality would certainly do it a lot of favors. The new themes are just as intelligently composed (if of a goofier nature) as any in the first two films. It has a lot going on, and is pretty much wall-to-wall music for the entire film, except for a couple of scenes. I'm sure this was done to give the ears a rest before the climactic battle scene. All that said, Empire is my all-time favorite JW score. He was on a string of big, operatic, old-school-romantic scores in the late 70's, and it all came together for this one. Every moment of it is musically inventive, often more than is reasonable, or required for simply serving the film. Why does he go so hard in the brass when Luke is blowing up the AT-AT? It's insane. The whole Battle of Hoth sequence is insane. Why is he writing all new themes for practically every scene in the film? Why does a choir show up for 30 seconds of screen time, never to be heard again? Because he could--next level, chefs-kiss. Also, I am convinced that a pick-up Hollywood orchestra would not be capable of some of the things he asks the LSO to do in this score, at least not with such effortless virtuosity. From the wampa attack on, it's some of the most difficult brass writing I've ever heard. This score is brilliant, and I'll never get over the Academy giving Howard Shore two Oscars for LotR, But Williams only got one for Star Wars when he was writing scores of this level of brilliance. Fame wins? Are f*****g serious? Unbelievable. Thanks for quoting me, to actually quote @Andy.... Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,385 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Star Wars might still be better. Some days. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,418 Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 This might make some people mad here, but I love A New Hope, both score and film. How could you not? But at the end of the day it still just sounds so raw and bare bones (for the lack of a better term). Look I don't need themes every single second in a score but Star Wars got it's sound with Empire. Edit: Jay can we fix it so we get reputation points from angry emojis? Jay, Holko, michael_grig and 1 other 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 35 minutes ago, Bellosh said: I love A New Hope, both score and film. How could you not? But at the end of the day it still just sounds so raw and bare bones (for the lack of a better term). Look I don't need themes every single second in a score but Star Wars got it's sound with Empire. I agree with Bellosh. Bellosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 ANH has themes almost every second..... enderdrag64 and Bellosh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,418 Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 I guess but who's counting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post karelm 2,913 Posted February 23, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2023 This is like picking the ugly Helmsworth. Yes, yes, one is better than the other, but all are incredibly impressive. ANH and ESB are some of tbe greatest scores in film history. Even if one is greater than the other, the other is still incredible. It's like picking the greatest Olympic swimmer. The difference between first place and last place is like .9 seconds. All are freaking amazing! Brando, michael_grig, Bellosh and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,418 Posted February 23, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2023 I don't disagree with anything you said. Empire is what it is because ANH was such a success that star wars could essentially begin it's tale and Johnny wasn't tied to a temp score. Also is the dude on the right ROTJ or AOTC? Brando, michael_grig, Jurassic Shark and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,385 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 If Empire had been entirely a move forward then it would be Empire for the win. But there are great things in Star Wars that Empire leaves behind. There's a certain kind of sound that Star Wars has that Empire doesn't quite. Star Wars has a certain reserve. I'd even say that for all the notion that Empire is the "dark film" that Star Wars has more menace in it than Empire. Empire (and Raiders) embrace a certain kind of cartoon villainy. So it continues to be a tie. Martinland, Andy and Chen G. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_grig 471 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 14 hours ago, karelm said: This is like picking the ugly Helmsworth. Yes, yes, one is better than the other, but all are incredibly impressive. ANH and ESB are some of tbe greatest scores in film history. Even if one is greater than the other, the other is still incredible. It's like picking the greatest Olympic swimmer. The difference between first place and last place is like .9 seconds. All are freaking amazing! I will show this picture to everyone who asks me about a rank of the three original movies now. It is 100% correctly arranged karelm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,061 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 What's Chris Pine doing there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,357 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 6 hours ago, Tallguy said: If Empire had been entirely a move forward then it would be Empire for the win. But there are great things in Star Wars that Empire leaves behind. There's a certain kind of sound that Star Wars has that Empire doesn't quite. Star Wars has a certain reserve. I'd even say that for all the notion that Empire is the "dark film" that Star Wars has more menace in it than Empire. Empire (and Raiders) embrace a certain kind of cartoon villainy. So it continues to be a tie. Yes, Star Wars had a certain pirate movie swashbuckler lightness to it, that Empire didn't anymore. Which in a way then came back again in Jedi. Probably that is why Williams brought back so much music from the first film in the third one (I know, Lucas asked for it). Tallguy and Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 36 minutes ago, GerateWohl said: Which in a way then came back again in Jedi. Certainly with all the Ewok malarky and the Jabba short. But all the Emperor stuff is some of the gloomiest of the trilogy, and this is also very true of the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,061 Posted February 23, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2023 I get the feeling that you love the Ewoks very much. Chen G., Brando and Brónach 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,121 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Star Wars is the greatest use of timpani ever. Ever! Tallguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 9 minutes ago, Andy said: Star Wars is the greatest use of timpani ever. Ever! 007 Takes the Lektor Pffist Fight/The Flying Wing. Desert Chase Prologue and Main Title from Superman Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,863 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Andy said: Star Wars is the greatest use of timpani ever. Ever! 2 hours ago, Clockwork Angel said: 007 Takes the Lektor Pffist Fight/The Flying Wing. Desert Chase Prologue and Main Title from Superman Both. Both is good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post karelm 2,913 Posted February 24, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 24, 2023 On 23/02/2023 at 1:29 PM, Andy said: Star Wars is the greatest use of timpani ever. Ever! Don Williams literally said, though reluctantly, that he thought Star Wars was overly using timpani and said he mentioned it to JW and his feedback impacted the timpani part in subsequent recordings. The original version is more excessive than later versions. At 1:04, that particular descending sequence is only in ANH. After that, they are repeated notes....more practical. Don has performed this thousands of times and in sessions, would use 12 chromatic timpani but in concerts, might have four and has to tune that descending scale on a single drum. He said it could be done but was problematic - the drum takes a moment to settle and written like this, doesn't allow for that settling time meaning it's usually out of tune. Manakin Skywalker, Andy and Martinland 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,121 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Don should’ve kept it to himself. Or Williams should’ve ignored him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, Andy said: Don should’ve kept it to himself. Or Williams should’ve ignored him. Have you ever looked up the definition of Hubris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,121 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 I first learned about the word in Humanities class in high school. It was in regards to a work of Shakespeare. Basically it means pride as I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,385 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 9 hours ago, karelm said: Have you ever looked up the definition of Hubris? I'm sure I don't need to. 9 hours ago, karelm said: At 1:04, that particular descending sequence are only in ANH. After that, they are repeated notes. Wow. See, this is the kind of thing that is why I come to JWFan! karelm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 14 hours ago, karelm said: Don Williams literally said, though reluctantly, that he thought Star Wars was overly using timpani and said he mentioned it to JW and his feedback impacted the timpani part in subsequent recordings. The original version is more excessive than later versions. At 1:04, that particular descending sequence are only in ANH. After that, they are repeated notes. As far as I know, there was an intermediate step, namely, the orchestral suite that was published for concert performance after the release of SW (several movements of which, including the Main Title, were later incorporated in the Hal Leonard published suites). After that publication, the recordings of the Main Title for ESB, ROTJ and the prequels used that score. There are various differences between the SW recording of the Main Titles and the suite score, a notable one being the simplification of the timpani part. I didn't know that this was based on Don Williams's input! Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,282 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 18 hours ago, Andy said: Star Wars is the greatest use of timpani ever. Ever! Nah... Barry Gray wins ;-) darkspine10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 9 hours ago, Score said: As far as I know, there was an intermediate step, namely, the orchestral suite that was published for concert performance after the release of SW (several movements of which, including the Main Title, were later incorporated in the Hal Leonard published suites). After that publication, the recordings of the Main Title for ESB, ROTJ and the prequels used that score. There are various differences between the SW recording of the Main Titles and the suite score, a notable one being the simplification of the timpani part. I didn't know that this was based on Don Williams's input! Ok, you're right and Don who's played this a thousand times is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 7 hours ago, karelm said: Ok, you're right and Don who's played this a thousand times is wrong. ??? I wasn't doubting what you said. I said I didn't know that the modification of the timpani part was done on Don's suggestion. There was no sarcasm involved. Since that modification appeared already in the suite (which was published before the recording of ESB, and whose score was used for the recordings of the SW chapters coming after episode IV), I just wanted to say that Don's suggestions were implemented already in the suite, and then entered ESB, ROTJ and the prequels. Tallguy and karelm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 5 hours ago, Score said: ??? I wasn't doubting what you said. I said I didn't know that the modification of the timpani part was done on Don's suggestion. There was no sarcasm involved. Since that modification appeared already in the suite (which was published before the recording of ESB, and whose score was used for the recordings of the SW chapters coming after episode IV), I just wanted to say that Don's suggestions were implemented already in the suite, and then entered ESB, ROTJ and the prequels. My bad. Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,385 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 On 23/02/2023 at 8:42 PM, karelm said: Don Williams literally said, though reluctantly, that he thought Star Wars was overly using timpani and said he mentioned it to JW and his feedback impacted the timpani part in subsequent recordings. Is Don John's... Brother? Or is this another Williams. My son was playing the timpani last night and I was thinking of this. I didn't know the whole story so I didn't tell him yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, Tallguy said: Is Don John's... Brother? Yes. 2 minutes ago, Tallguy said: Or is this another Williams. No. Tallguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marc 767 Posted June 22, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 22, 2023 This cue Jay, aj_vader, Bellosh and 4 others 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,418 Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 great job dude! Marc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,418 Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 my favorite end credits Brando and Tallguy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTN 2,003 Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marc 767 Posted January 15 Popular Post Share Posted January 15 9M6/10M1 Carbon Freeze 📯🎺 ThePenitentMan1, enderdrag64, Tydirium and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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