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Indiana Jones is better than everything


Jay

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Again, I said that people are free to appreciate/enjoy ToD and even that I enjoy it, to an extent. But IF for example someone finds nothing problematic in Birth of a Nation (or Gone With the Wind, a film more actively beloved by many people today), it's just a fact that they are not bothered by the obvious racism contained within. That's not some left-wing agenda. How is it any different in Temple of Doom?

 

This was my original post, Jay: "Yup I'm *really* hoping that's the "new ending" that Williams wrote new music for earlier this year. It would make sense and it would be amazing if Williams brought back Short Round's theme for him!!" — 100% celebratory.

 

And this was my second post, which ultimately led to the contentious exchange:

On 16/03/2023 at 12:07 AM, Yavar Moradi said:

That’s not at all what happened for me. I still consider it a lesser film and *easily* the worst of the original trilogy. I can’t watch it without cringing most of the time. It was dated (to put it kindly) in the 80s and it’s even worse now.

 

Are there things to admire about it, though? Absolutely! Ford is great, Quan is great, and their chemistry is just wonderful, with some moments that are pure magic thanks to the third “great”: John Williams and his incredible score… probably my favorite of the whole franchise to be honest. I think over the years I’ve come to see it as the Empire to Raiders’ Star Wars, if that makes any sense. It’s so much richer and it really carries the film.

 

So yeah, Temple of Doom is still extremely problematic for me. But Quan and his relationship with Ford was always the saving grace of that film, besides the score. And I’m so happy for him that he’s had this comeback. If Short Round is squeezed into the end of Dial of Destiny, I’ll be delighted even if the rest of the film is as trash as the stupid rumor mill wants us to believe. It’ll be bringing back the best part of the worst of the original trilogy.

 

Still (partially) celebratory, even of Temple of Doom. I only went into further detail in the thread because I was directly asked:

On 16/03/2023 at 10:03 AM, SilverTrumpet said:

So is your issue mostly cultural sensitivity? 

 

We just watched the movie again over the weekend and I was sitting there still in disbelief that anyone could think the movie is a bad movie whatsoever. I get it not being someone's favorite, but "easily" the weakest, or bad (as some people think)? No way!

 

And someone else suggested my issues with the film (which I had upon first viewing it a mere decade after it was released, as a pre-teen who had already experienced racism due to my middle eastern heritage) was "judging stuff from the past by modern standards" -- that's when I felt compelled to share a film review from the time the film came out, one which was not politically motivated but which frankly and reasonably took issue with racist portrayals in the film.

 

So... I've answered your "why did you do this?" I certainly didn't set out to hijack your thread, which should be obvious from my first two posts in it.


Yavar

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On 17/03/2023 at 12:07 AM, Holko said:

Says the one who has to reply to everyone to defend his own stance ;)

 

Fans of ToD feel like defending it because it's often looked at as a lesser film and because Spielberg himself didn't seem to like it very much.

It's not because some Freudian defense mechanism. That's just cringe.

Fans felt like defending ToD probably two decades before Woke Hollywood was even remotely a thing.

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1 hour ago, Andy said:

Willie is how we’d actually act. 

Literally. If I am soaking wet and fully clothed, I am not a happy camper and everyone around me will hear about it.

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21 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

What happened in 2008?

 

THERE. ARE. THREE. FILMS!

 

tenor.gif?itemid=7362662

 

 

all joking aside, they had a lot to live up to with that sunset ending.  for all the things wrong with KOTCS, they got it right with that send off to Indy.

 

the ball is in DoD's court now.

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13 minutes ago, Andy said:


Willie Scott is obviously written to be the complete opposite of Marion, but truly, she’s there as the point of view for the audience to identify with.  All the criticism her character and performance has taken over the years, I just don’t get.
 

If I see a mouse startle me, I let out an unearthly abdominal scream out of pure instinct.  If I were in the Hell of Pankot with that lion tamer and the kid, I’d be soiling myself. 
 

Also, her being a complete sissy makes Shorty and Jones seem that much cooler.  They are the best Lucasfilm trio after Luke, Han, and Leia. Maybe even better. 

Thats It Martin Short GIF by PBS SoCal

 

3 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

spielberg and lucas at the top of their game

 

image.png

A perfect frameROTFLMAO

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5 hours ago, Bellosh said:

It's like how Last Crusade made Brody a clown (one of the most HORRIBLE decisions from the trilogy)

 

What do you mean? He can blend in anywhere

 

4 hours ago, Andy said:

If I see a mouse startle me, I let out an unearthly abdominal scream out of pure instinct.

 

Umm... OK.

 

Where's @publicist when you need him? Has he been banned?

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I can’t understand why they broke tradition and didn’t have a fist fight in Last Crusade.  Missed opportunity for action, humor, peril, and music. 
 

KOTCS returns to form with great one on one brawls with Dovchenko. 

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26 minutes ago, Andy said:

I can’t understand why they broke tradition and didn’t have a fist fight in Last Crusade.


No fist fight, but Pat Roach was nearly in The Last Crusade, in a deleted scene:

 

C30A6416-0802-4334-86E8-88A97A4BEABA.jpeg

 

3CDDD635-34B8-4D35-A77C-A0AC0B130F42.jpeg

 

http://www.theraider.net/films/crusade/deleted_scenes.php

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1 hour ago, Andy said:

I can’t understand why they broke tradition and didn’t have a fist fight in Last Crusade.  Missed opportunity for action, humor, peril, and music. 
 

KOTCS returns to form with great one on one brawls with Dovchenko. 

Alright, so I understand this. But you can't deny, Indy repeatedly slamming Vogel's face into the tank after climbing back on top makes up for it. Also, right before dad pops out and he throws his fist into his chin, that's a great punch.

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Listened today again to the Temple of Doom score and thought again that it is strange that KotCS was the first Indy OST with special concert arrangements of major themes. All previous OSTs just contained special edits of film tracks and the only "concert arrangement" were the end titles, which is really an exception in Williams' work.

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4 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Listened today again to the Temple of Doom score and thought again that it is strange that KotCS was the first Indy OST with special concert arrangements of major themes. All previous OSTs just contained special edits of film tracks and the only "concert arrangement" were the end titles, which is really an exception in Williams' work.

It is a bit odd there aren't any concert arrangements, yeah. I wish we had full pieces for the Ark and the Grail.

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48 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Listened today again to the Temple of Doom score and thought again that it is strange that KotCS was the first Indy OST with special concert arrangements of major themes. All previous OSTs just contained special edits of film tracks and the only "concert arrangement" were the end titles, which is really an exception in Williams' work.

 

Yea, it's really weird isn't it?

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Well, it's not the first time that JW concert arrangements have come after the release of the OST. I guess it varies how much disposable time he has for such things before going into the recording studio.

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On 16/03/2023 at 12:14 PM, Tom Guernsey said:

I'm sure someone from FSM (might have been Lukas K actually) told an anecdote where they were in a queue behind Ke Huy Quan and they whistled Short Round's theme, but was disappointed not to get a response. 

 

I too remember that story. That was an FSM podcast released before KotCS where they speculated on how the upcoming score would sound relative to the prior trilogy. I also remember one of the hosts saying he would be fine with it as long as it didn't sound like Dex's Diner :)

 

On 17/03/2023 at 9:49 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

But IF for example someone finds nothing problematic in Birth of a Nation (or Gone With the Wind, a film more actively beloved by many people today), it's just a fact that they are not bothered by the obvious racism contained within. That's not some left-wing agenda. 

 

What's great is DoD will right all these wrongs. I can't wait.

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23 minutes ago, Brando said:

It is a bit odd there aren't any concert arrangements, yeah. I wish we had full pieces for the Ark and the Grail.

I mean, Williams created some for his Sony Spielberg albums:

  • The Basket Chase
  • Marion's Theme
  • Slave Children's Parade
  • Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra

But they were not on the OSTs in that form.

 

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34 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

What do you guys think about this?

 

Pode ser uma imagem de 5 pessoas e texto que diz "Kris Wernowsky @kriswernowsky Instead of giving the Indiana Jones franchise to a Chris Pratt-type, why not strike while the iron's hot and hand it over to Ke Huy Quan. We know so little about Short Round. Nothing says street-smart kid can't become a treasure-hunting archeologist swashbuckler who hates Nazis."

At last we would get to see an academy award winner's acting performance as a lead in Indiana Jones. What an imrovement. Finish to these second rate actors like Harrison Ford.

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3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

What do you guys think about this?

 

Pode ser uma imagem de 5 pessoas e texto que diz "Kris Wernowsky @kriswernowsky Instead of giving the Indiana Jones franchise to a Chris Pratt-type, why not strike while the iron's hot and hand it over to Ke Huy Quan. We know so little about Short Round. Nothing says street-smart kid can't become a treasure-hunting archeologist swashbuckler who hates Nazis."


I’ve thought about it constantly since seeing those pictures of them together at D23… and Quan obviously has the chops be an action lead. IMO he was always the obvious inheritor of the hat, but since he didn’t seem to be acting any more I don’t think it even occurred to anybody until last year.

 

Yavar

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Seems like a no-brainer for them to do some kind of Short Round thing, in addition to his rumoured late addition to DoD. I imagine Quan would be super keen, and considering the failure of the Willow reboot and the diminishing returns that is the Star Wars machine, Lucasfilm would be silly not to capitalise on the moment he's having. It's not like they have any other avenues to exploit the Indy IP... although knowing Disney we could end up with Sallah: Origins in 2030.

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