Vertigo (remake written by Steven Knight and starring Robert Downey Jr)

[Edmilson 7,367]

Hitchcock fans, despair: a remake of Vertigo is coming from the writer behind British series “Peaky Blinders” and the script of 2008’s “Eastern Promises” and starring Iron Man himself.

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2023/03/vertigo-remake-robert-downey-jr-paramount-1234822383/

 

This news comes one day after Knight being announced as the writer of the new Star Wars movie. Maybe this means he's already out after one single day?

[DangerMotif 1,037]

Danny Elfman should be scoring this 

[bollemanneke 3,334]

Ooh, interesting news! Can we have a score that isn't overbearing as hell this time?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

45 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Ooh, interesting news! Can we have a score that isn't overbearing as hell this time?

WHAT! THE! ACTUAL???!!!

[Sweeping Strings 2,342]

I enjoyed Peaky Blinders, and also Knight's recent 'SAS : Rogue Heroes'. And his take on Great Expectations begins this weekend on BBC1. But a Hitchcock remake seems unwise.  

[bollemanneke 3,334]

28 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

WHAT! THE! ACTUAL???!!!

I didn't say the score was bad, I said it sounded awful. Marnie, on the other hand, sounds both awful and IS awful.

[GerateWohl 4,320]

Remakes make sense, if you think, if that movie wouldn't already exist, somebody would/should make it now.

But if Vertigo didn't exist yet, still nobody except Hitchcock would ever think about making that movie.

Making a remake of such a very very niche specific classic masterpiece of movie can have only one purpose: desecration

I won't second to that.

 

Another issue: One big thing about Vertigo was its style, composition and innovation. If you take that away, there's just a story about a weirdly obsessed perverted slowcoach. Why do that?

[Sweeping Strings 2,342]

Whilst I doubt this'll go down the 'shot-for-shot' route of the Psycho remake, they'd do well to remember that that was pretty much universally derided as utterly pointless. 

[Yavar Moradi 2,576]

5 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Ooh, interesting news! Can we have a score that isn't overbearing as hell this time?

 

AKA the main reason the original film worked, despite multiple oddnesses and imperfections?  

 

Yavar

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

4 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

I didn't say the score was bad, I said it sounded awful.

Do you mean that it is bad, sonically, or that it doesn't suit the film?

You are aware, are you not, that VERTIGO is considered to be among the greatest film scores ever written?

 

 

 

4 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Marnie, on the other hand, sounds both awful and IS awful.

I haven't seen MARNIE in donkey's years, so I can't really say what it's like.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

I don't really care what it's considered to be, it wasn't my thing.

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

I try to remain non-oppositional towards remakes. Many (probably most) are bad, but then lots of films are bad, so if you're going to remake a really good film, chances are you're not going to fare well by comparison, even if your own version isn't that bad. But that doesn't mean a remake can't be good, even if it's remaking a film that already is very good on its own. Some great Hollywood classics are remakes (granted, of black and white and/or silent films). Many films that are labelled remakes are in fact new adaptations of the book that the "original" film (and sometimes several others) were based on.

 

That said, the great classics are obviously hard to remake. I still think Peter Jackson's King Kong is a good film (the extended version is utterly unnecessary), and a proper (and actual) remake of a classic that has never been flawless (most of the flaws of the PJ version apply to the original as well, in my opinion). It does help that the effects are mostly believable - the original Kong was (and remains) impressive for its time, but it was never believable, and often a bit goofy.

 

Vertigo surely is even harder to do justice. Partly because as one of the Great Hitchcock films, it bears Hitchcock's handwriting. And obviously the score is such a distinct part of the whole that neither the original, nor any other version, could live up to it without Herrmann's music - or rather, it would have to bring some compelling element of its own to the table to make up for it and/or to be different enough to be accepted on its own terms.

 

But overall, despite these factors, the original Vertigo has never been one of my favourite Hitchcock films, and as a viewing experience I don't rate it that highly. And it's not like the original hasn't already been copied numerous times by everyone from De Palma to Verhoeven. If an outright remake has a distinct enough personality of its own, it might in some ways be more original than many other passable films influenced by Hitchcock.

[A24 4,323]

Vertigo and PJ's King Kong in one breath ... Sigh!

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

16 hours ago, DangerMotif said:

Danny Elfman should be scoring this 

 

Or Elmer Bernstein. 

[filmmusic 1,822]

5 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

I didn't say the score was bad, I said it sounded awful. Marnie, on the other hand, sounds both awful and IS awful.

Sacrilege!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

15 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Or Elmer Bernstein. 

Eejit.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

5 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Eejit.

 

Should, not could. 

[Thor 7,451]

I think I'm one of the few people in the world who neither care for film nor score. Although I can recognize why it's such a revered classic. Sacrilege, I know.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

I'm not a great fan either. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

1 hour ago, AC1 said:

Vertigo and PJ's King Kong in one breath ... Sigh!

 

It's a separate paragraph. My breath doesn't last that long.

[mstrox 6,637]

Vertigo is not my least favorite of Hitchcock’s near perfect run between Rope and Psycho (that honor goes to The Trouble With Harry), but buddy it’s close.  Remake it or don’t remake it, who cares.

[Edmilson 7,367]

I had a Hitchcock phase back in 2013 or 14 (I think) when whenever I felt like watching an old classic movie I for the most part would choose a Hitchcock suspense from the 40s to 60s. So I saw a lot of stuff from his "golden days". Out of those movies, Vertigo was certainly one of the most memorable.

 

And that's due to not only its psychological complexity and an intense portrait of obsession, but also due to BH's score. To this day, I think this is one of the best marriages between movie and music that I have ever seen. The music works so amazingly well with the pictures, it blew my mind.

 

So yeah, the movie is not perfect, but the score is perfect for it.

[GerateWohl 4,320]

I think, Vertigo is just the best depiction of the old story of a man falling in love with an image of a person and not the actual person, but a person that just exists in his head but projecting it on an actual person with all the terrible consequences, basically the story of Hitchcock himself and Grace Kelly and blondes then in general. In that regard it's a very personal movie, probably his most personal. 

And beside other stylistic devices it was the first movie in history using that lens zoom effect at the beginning when James Stewart looks into the abyss.

But of course it is not Avatar.

[A24 4,323]

Robert Downey Jr is such an odd choice. James Stewart was good at playing the everyday man, yes, witty, but always humble. Who would be the James Stewart of today? Which star has that quality?

[GerateWohl 4,320]

Michael Fassbender?

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

But of course it is not Avatar.

 

Thank God.

 

56 minutes ago, AC1 said:

Robert Downey Jr is such an odd choice. James Stewart was good at playing the everyday man, yes, witty, but always humble. Who would be the James Stewart of today? Which star has that quality?

 

Tom Hanks, of course!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

"It's not AVATAR".

Is that it? Is this what modern cinema has become? Is AVATAR the absolute, and final, benchmark, of films? Are all movies going to be asked "Ah, yes, but is it AVATAR?"?

Is this the world you want to live in?

You really should have a  after your post, @GerateWohl, but I don't see one...

[GerateWohl 4,320]

18 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

"It's not AVATAR".

Is that it? Is this what modern cinema has become? Is AVATAR the absolute, and final, benchmark, of films? Are all movies going to be asked "Ah, yes, but is it AVATAR?"?

Is this the world you want to live in?

You really should have a  after your post, @GerateWohl, but I don't see one...

Right. That was rather an insider from a previous discussion I had with Thor, who likes Avatar so much but doesn't care for Vertigo (forgive me @Thor  ). But I know, what he meant by that and it is different if I look at a movie from a historical relevance or value of art of entertainment factor.  It was just a stupid joke, that noone could understand. Sorry.

[Thor 7,451]

Hitchcock is one of those directors many of us connected to before we were even film buffs or cineastes or whatever you want to call it. I saw many of his films as a kid, on the telly. REAR WINDOW remains my favourite to this day. In adult years, the "glee" of watching a Hitchcock film dissapates somewhat (at least for me), but what becomes more interesting is how influential he is across other filmmakers you care about more (Spielberg, De Palma, Shyamalan etc.).

 

I remember getting a big Hitchcock VHS box in the early 2000s, because it was on sale and everyone was moving to DVD, and VERTIGO was in it. However, I found myself watching the other films in it more (THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH, REAR WINDOW, NORTH BY NORTHWEST etc). I can glean at the brilliance in the filmmaking of VERTIGO, but never really get much of an emotional connection, or even engrossment. Don't know what it is.

[crocodile 7,973]

So is this,a remake of Hitchcock film or another adaptation of the same story. Could be interesting as long as there is something to offer.

 

John Williams should score this! Bit I will settle for Elfman or Desplat.

 

Katol

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

21 minutes ago, Thor said:

I can glean at the brilliance in the filmmaking of VERTIGO, but never really get much of an emotional connection, or even engrossment. Don't know what it is.

 

Me too. I guess it appeals more to stalkers.

[GerateWohl 4,320]

19 minutes ago, crocodile said:

 

John Williams should score this! Bit I will settle for Elfman or Desplat.

Or they do it like Scorcese did for Cape Fear, where Elmer Bernstein just adapted Herrmann's OP original score.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

18 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Or Elmer Bernstein. 

 

[GerateWohl 4,320]

32 minutes ago, Thor said:

I can glean at the brilliance in the filmmaking of VERTIGO, but never really get much of an emotional connection, or even engrossment. Don't know what it is.

 

10 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Me too. I guess it appeals more to stalkers.

I am afraid, you are both right.

No character to identify with. The fascination of Vertigo is very analytical and not emotional.

 

I think, the only director of which I would have been looking forward to a remake of Vertigo would have been David Cronenberg.

[Thor 7,451]

1 minute ago, GerateWohl said:

I think, the only director of which I would have been looking forward to a remake of Vertigo would have been David Cronenberg.

 

Now THAT would have been something. I can just picture a duplicate Madeline being formed by some burlesque mass of organic substance. In fact, that's pretty much what David's son Brandon explores in his new film INFINITY POOL.

[JNHFan2000 2,938]

Never seen Vertigo. I've only seen 4 Hitchcock films:

Psycho: Brilliant

The Birds: saw it when I was maybe bit to young, and then it scared the crap out me.

Rebecca: Gorgeous film (that remake did not work out)

Rear Window: Probably my favorite of his. Incredible film!

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

4 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Never seen Vertigo. I've only seen 4 Hitchcock films:

Psycho: Brilliant

The Birds: saw it when I was maybe bit to young, and then it scared the crap out me.

Rebecca: Gorgeous film (that remake did not work out)

Rear Window: Probably my favorite of his. Incredible film!

 

You need to see North by Northwest. 

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

And Family Plot (for obvious reason)

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Right. That was rather an insider from a previous discussion I had with Thor, who likes Avatar so much but doesn't care for Vertigo (forgive me @Thor  ). But I know, what he meant by that and it is different if I look at a movie from a historical relevance or value of art of entertainment factor.  It was just a stupid joke, that noone could understand. Sorry.

Thanks, @GerateWohl. I understand, now.

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Or Elmer Bernstein

Eejit.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

5 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Thanks, @GerateWohl. I understand, now.

 

 

 

Eejit.

 

It's E-L-M-E-R.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

No, it's "eejit".

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

You grumpy old fart.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

That's "Naïve", to you, sunny Jim.

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

9 hours ago, mstrox said:

Vertigo is not my least favorite of Hitchcock’s near perfect run between Rope and Psycho (that honor goes to The Trouble With Harry), but buddy it’s close.  Remake it or don’t remake it, who cares.

 

TTWH is probably the Hitchcock film I like the least, or possibly the only one I actively dislike. There's something about the way it carries itself that makes me feel personally uncomfortable, and I don't think it's intended to and I don't quite know what about it does it (there are other films that make me uncomfortable, but for good reason, and in a way that's less unsettling). Family Plot is a bit similar in that regard, but the effect isn't nearly as strong there (and unlike Harry it's also never cited as one of Hitchcock's finest).

 

5 hours ago, AC1 said:

Robert Downey Jr is such an odd choice. James Stewart was good at playing the everyday man, yes, witty, but always humble. Who would be the James Stewart of today? Which star has that quality?

 

There's something about Stewart that never quite makes me buy him as an everyday man, even when I otherwise enjoy his performance. To me, he's got an air of ubiquitous authority about him that undermines his playing out of his depth. It's surely partially attributable to the more "artificial"/theatrical acting style of those days, but I feel it more strongly with Stewart than with most others. For example, Cary Grant in NBWN certainly comes across as an authority figure as well - but not in the situations he's thrown into.

 

But I also can't picture Robert Downey Jr in the role at all.

 

2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

2 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Never seen Vertigo. I've only seen 4 Hitchcock films:

Psycho: Brilliant

The Birds: saw it when I was maybe bit to young, and then it scared the crap out me.

Rebecca: Gorgeous film (that remake did not work out)

Rear Window: Probably my favorite of his. Incredible film!

 

You need to see North by Northwest. 

 

And Rear Window, and The Man Who Knew Too Much, and Shadow of a Doubt.

[A24 4,323]

2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

There's something about Stewart that never quite makes me buy him as an everyday man, even when I otherwise enjoy his performance. To me, he's got an air of ubiquitous authority about him that undermines his playing out of his depth. It's surely partially attributable to the more "artificial"/theatrical acting style of those days, but I feel it more strongly with Stewart than with most others. For example, Cary Grant in NBWN certainly comes across as an authority figure as well - but not in the situations he's thrown into.

 

 

Cary Grant is Hollywood glamour personified but anyone of us could be James Stewart. 

[Richard Penna 3,664]

On 24/03/2023 at 3:31 PM, Naïve Old Fart said:

You are aware, are you not, that VERTIGO is considered to be among the greatest film scores ever written?

 

I saw the film back in DVD rental days and don't remember a huge amount of the score - mainly the bit at the end in that scene where the lady is 'transformed'. I've never had much of an urge to listen to it separately.

 

In short, I don't know why people are shocked (or is it faux shock?) when someone doesn't like a supposed 'classic' score.

[artguy360 1,842]

Will be interesting to hear the score for this. Remaking Hitchcock always seems like a tough assignment and a strange choice. His films are so unique and almost immaculately constructed. 

[Sweeping Strings 2,342]

On 24/03/2023 at 11:01 AM, Sweeping Strings said:

I enjoyed Peaky Blinders, and also Knight's recent 'SAS : Rogue Heroes'. And his take on Great Expectations begins this weekend on BBC1. But a Hitchcock remake seems unwise.  

Just to revisit this ... Knight's 'sexed up' Great Expectations seems to have gone down mostly badly with viewers. Whether it's an indicator of what his Vertigo will be like remains to be seen, I suppose.