First Clip from Indy 5 with new John Williams action music

[Obi 396]

 First Clip with new John Williams music !!

 

https://www.festival-cannes.com/en/medialibrary/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-by-james-mangold-clip-1/

 

Looks great !

 

Edit :

 

[Lao Che 86]

This is the audio-only clip, removed the dialogue but not the background noise

You can focus on the music though..I tried ;)🙃🤠

 

Sounds like a bit of a mix of "Basket game" and "A Whirl through Academe"

[Richard Penna 3,224]

I got a bit of a Venice vibe, but otherwise it just sounded like standard Williams slightly comedic action to me. I don't think we're going to get a classic set piece from this scene.

 

Also mixed extremely low.

[crumbs 13,887]

I thought the mixing was quite good by modern standards!

 

This sounds like TLC meets KOCS, with some Tintin-esque orchestration thrown in for good measure.

 

And does anyone else keep hearing Rose's Theme?

[Tom 4,179]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

 I don't think we're going to get a classic set piece from this scene.

 

We already have the full scene with score from a month back.  It is not a set piece.  

[Remco 685]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

Also mixed extremely low.

 

This is low? I can actually hear the music, while there's lots of SFX going on. This is really good I think.

[Dr. Know 285]

I like what I hear.

[Edmilson 6,204]

It's pretty standard modern Williams action scoring, with a bit of Tintin and The Fathiers. But the mixing is great! It's amazing to see the filmmakers treating Williams' music with a bit more of respect than, well, some others .

 

Either way, I think the real strengths of this score will be the Dial of Destiny theme and the more emotional parts rather than the action music.

[crumbs 13,887]

35 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Either way, I think the real strengths of this score will be the Dial of Destiny theme and the more emotional parts rather than the action music.

 

I agree, a bit like TROS.

[Richard Penna 3,224]

45 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

It's pretty standard modern Williams action scoring, with a bit of Tintin and The Fathiers. But the mixing is great!

 

Strangely I still disgree about the mixing! It feels like the scene is leaving a layer of air when the dialog/sfx aren't doing a lot and where the music should be taking centre-stage.

 

It probably has the same issue for me as The Fathiers which is really just a lack of memorable structure - as you say, it's modern Williams action scoring, which tends to mean that in context of his great pieces from previous Indy films, a bit unremarkable.

 

It's also not a very exciting scene, I think.

[pete 818]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Strangely I still disgree about the mixing! It feels like the scene is leaving a layer of air when the dialog/sfx aren't doing a lot and where the music should be taking centre-stage.

 

 

I also thought something was a little off or unusual. When they're talking to each other while racing along, their voices sounded too clear to me - like they had mics on. 

 

 

Auto-Merge post....Regarding the music, I'm reminded of the an early clip of The Force Awakens that I think included the Follow Me cue. It sounded a little thin and cartoony, but that wasn't representative of the score, and I've grown to like the piece.

[scallenger 476]

Why does it sound... temp-tracked to me? Like the very end of it literally sounds like a cue from KOTCS. Not even loosely, I mean JUST like it.

[BB-8 2,964]

Scherzo for vintage Three-wheeler and Orchestra 

[Jilal 554]

The note-for-note lifts from TLC and KOTCS and the generic filler in between are disappointing to me. I hope the rest of the score isn't as derivative.

[Jay 35,278]

@Jilal, you need an avatar image!

[scallenger 476]

So I'm NOT just hearing things, right? It IS note-per-note. Is it possible Cannes only had access to an early clip to showcase that had tracked music? Or the film itself simply tracked it? I just find it bizarre Williams did it this way himself, unless he did it as a way to kind of connect the series as a whole since this is the last one? I don't know how I feel about that if so...

[Jilal 554]

10 minutes ago, scallenger said:

So I'm NOT just hearing things, right? It IS note-per-note. Is it possible Cannes only had access to an early clip to showcase that had tracked music? Or the film itself simply tracked it? I just find it bizarre Williams did it this way himself, unless he did it as a way to kind of connect the series as a whole since this is the last one? I don't know how I feel about that if so...

 

The bits lifted from TLC and KOTCS sound like they were re-recorded (and perhaps a little reworked) to me, meaning they are part of the actual underscore for this sequence. So, note-for-note, from a certain point of view.

[Falstaft 2,014]

41 minutes ago, scallenger said:

So I'm NOT just hearing things, right? It IS note-per-note. Is it possible Cannes only had access to an early clip to showcase that had tracked music? Or the film itself simply tracked it? I just find it bizarre Williams did it this way himself, unless he did it as a way to kind of connect the series as a whole since this is the last one? I don't know how I feel about that if so...

 

Williams is 91 years old, and action music is unbelievably strenuous to compose. What we're hearing here serves the scene expertly, it creates continuity with the other scores, and offers a bit of a reprieve for Williams (and/or Ross, who we can assume is involved in a similar way here as he was with the ST). And there's precedent in KOTCS anyway of this kind of thing, with the Gunpowder (ROTLA: Discovering the Seriph), Corpse/Betrayal (TLC: Kazim and the Rats!), and Warehouse Escape (ROTLA: Flight to Freedom) cues. The score to DoD is going to be absolutely marvelous, calm down folks. 

[scallenger 476]

I AM CALM!

 

I mean... I am calm.  I guess for a first music-in-the-scene clip that was probably not a good one for us music fans to have. I still have hopes it will all work in context!

 

But, I also know we all can have a bad day at the office...

[Alex 2,743]

I think the quotes from the Venice material are integrated well into original material from what I can hear. 
 

Also, there seems to be a neat bit where the first part of the Raider’s March plays followed by the end of Helena’s Theme (around 14 seconds in). Or it could just be Helena’s Theme in its entirety.

 

I’ve missed this kind of discourse! Bring on the next two months. I am ready to analyse the shit out of this score.

[Jilal 554]

48 minutes ago, Falstaft said:

Williams is 91 years old, and action music is unbelievably strenuous to compose. What we're hearing here serves the scene expertly, it creates continuity with the other scores, and offers a bit of a reprieve for Williams (and/or Ross, who we can assume is involved in a similar way here as he was with the ST).

 

Even though I deeply admire the man (as we all do here), I think you're being a little apologetic here. Sure, the underscore we're hearing in this particular clip serves the scene, but it's far from original.

 

48 minutes ago, Falstaft said:

And there's precedent in KOTCS anyway of this kind of thing, with the Gunpowder (ROTLA: Discovering the Seriph), Corpse/Betrayal (TLC: Kazim and the Rats!), and Warehouse Escape (ROTLA: Flight to Freedom) cues.

 

I would say those are some of the weaker bits of the KOTCS score.

 

48 minutes ago, Falstaft said:

The score to DoD is going to be absolutely marvelous, calm down folks. 

 

I'm sure there will be lots of compelling, original material to savor, but I'm also expecting more quotes from earlier installments of the franchise. It seems to be en vogue these days (SW:ANH's Here They Come in SW:TLJ comes to mind), with the obvious intention of evoking nostalgia.

[Loert 2,414]

Sounds like it was written by an AI pretending to be John Williams.

 

(In seriousness, I like it.)

[Remco 685]

Even Return of the Jedi had this. It happened in the prequels too. It’s reasonable to expect it happens here too.

 

Btw, the full clip of this has been leaked of course and it seems that the music actually follows and fits the scene like a glove, unlike a lot of TFA and TROS. No reason to worry.

[Bellosh 3,012]

Holy shit we're getting a new Indy score next month

[pete 818]

4 hours ago, Falstaft said:

 

Williams is 91 years old, and action music is unbelievably strenuous to compose. 

 

Is it? I'm seriously curious. Is it a lot more strenuous than writing for a love scene or a scene less acton orientated? I do recall someone assuming it was more work and someone pointng out that the actual task of putting notes to paper is the same and that writing active action music doesn't mean the composer is actually more "active" when writing if that makes sense. Sure, there are many more notes and I'm sure it's a momentous task mapping everything out and synching everything, but Williams has said the hardest part of his job is coming up with the themes.  Is it is physically taxing as well as mentally taxing? Not asking to be disagreeable, just because I don't know, and it sounds like an interesting topic! And sure I can appreciate a 91 year old working differentaly to his 40 or 50 year-old self. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,538]

I feel like quotes non-withstanding, it fits in pretty well with the "comedic chase cues" from the series like Basket Game and The Motorcycle Chase.  

[artguy360 1,788]

Sounds like standard JW comedic action music. Not my preferred JW mode, but I'm sure it will be fun. I just hope it isn't too chopped up in the edit. Sounded good and synced to specific hits.

[King Mark 3,544]

16 hours ago, crumbs said:

I thought the mixing was quite good by modern standards!

 

 yeah I could hear the music pretty well...but yet not as loud as I'd like it to be

 

This cue sounded a bit generic though

[JTW 1,242]

I’m waiting for the soundtrack CD. 
Hearing music in the film mix means almost nothing, it only ruins the experience of being able to enjoy John Williams’ score in its full glory.

 

I agree with @Edmilson that it will be the emotional lyrical themes and cues that will be the most noteworthy parts of this score, not necessarily the action cues. Anyway, I’ll wait for the soundtrack album to enjoy the score, that’s where the full beauty of Williams’ music will come alive. 

[Remco 685]

Does somebody have timestamps for the parts that sounds like they're copied? I checked out the 2 mentioned cues and couldn't find copied material, just similarities in style.

[Brónach 1,278]

i'm evil and i find all the quoting boring

[Schilkeman 778]

Indiana Jones music sounds like Indiana Jones music, oh no! 

27 minutes ago, Remco said:

Does somebody have timestamps for the parts that sounds like they're copied? I checked out the 2 mentioned cues and couldn't find copied material, just similarities in style.

Me neither, but it’s hard to hear the music clearly. Except for that two note hit, nothing jumped out at me as being a direct quote, and I don’t call a cadence a quote.

[Brónach 1,278]

simply discard all the previously used intervals

[SilverTrumpet 628]

16 hours ago, Jilal said:

The note-for-note lifts from TLC and KOTCS and the generic filler in between are disappointing to me. I hope the rest of the score isn't as derivative.

 

My feelings as well. I think there was more in the full leaked clip. Hell, we've heard it even before this scene in Helena's Theme where it quotes that little bit from Marion's Theme. At the time we thought that was referring to something about her character but it looks pretty certain that that's not the case now that we know more about her.

 

26 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

Indiana Jones music sounds like Indiana Jones music, oh no! 

 

21 minutes ago, Brónach said:

simply discard all the previously used intervals

 

Come on, you know what people are talking about. It's directly taking little clips from those previous scores. It's not just intervals and you know it. 

[Brónach 1,278]

7 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

Come on, you know what people are talking about. It's directly taking little clips from those previous scores. It's not just intervals and you know it. 

 

I already said before that I actively dislike the quotes.

[TolkienSS 384]

I'm getting the very strong vibes that Williams originally only wanted to do the musical groundwork, but then decided to do it all himself, but then felt tired of it.

[Schilkeman 778]

19 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

 

My feelings as well. I think there was more in the full leaked clip. Hell, we've heard it even before this scene in Helena's Theme where it quotes that little bit from Marion's Theme. At the time we thought that was referring to something about her character but it looks pretty certain that that's not the case now that we know more about her.

 

 

 

Come on, you know what people are talking about. It's directly taking little clips from those previous scores. It's not just intervals and you know it. 

No, I don’t know it. I don’t hear any direct quotes. Some time stamps might be helpful. I have not internalized the IJ scores as much as some others, so I could be wrong, but I hear “similar,” not the “same.”

[Loert 2,414]

2 hours ago, Remco said:

Does somebody have timestamps for the parts that sounds like they're copied? I checked out the 2 mentioned cues and couldn't find copied material, just similarities in style.

 

The one that jumped out at me the most is the similarity between the very ending of the clip and 1:52 from Indy's Great Escape (KOTCS):

 

 

It's note-for-note self-plagiarisation.

But then, this isn't the first time JW has done this...like, erm, the first 34 seconds of the track linked above is a good example. Though on the other hand, that seems more of a deliberate throwback, whereas the ending snippet in the new clip seems more like a "lift".

13 hours ago, pete said:

 

Is it? I'm seriously curious. Is it a lot more strenuous than writing for a love scene or a scene less acton orientated? I do recall someone assuming it was more work and someone pointng out that the actual task of putting notes to paper is the same and that writing active action music doesn't mean the composer is actually more "active" when writing if that makes sense. Sure, there are many more notes and I'm sure it's a momentous task mapping everything out and synching everything, but Williams has said the hardest part of his job is coming up with the themes.  Is it is physically taxing as well as mentally taxing? Not asking to be disagreeable, just because I don't know, and it sounds like an interesting topic! And sure I can appreciate a 91 year old working differentaly to his 40 or 50 year-old self. 

 

There is no answer to this question. What is certainly true is that action music tends to have more notes per second than, say, a love scene. Therefore it might be more strenuous to write out/orchestrate/make parts for an action scene. But how much time was put into coming up with the notes in the first place? That's entirely up to the composer.

[pete 818]

I'm hearing a couple of times something similiar to 1:21 - it does sound a little different maybe. It's hard to tell with the sound effects. I'm not complaining, just something I noticed, And I didn't catch the Crsytal Skull reference, but I'm much less familiar with that score.

 

 

[igger6 847]

"Indy's Great Escape"?  Why aren't we fretting about Williams' self-plagiarizing his track titles?  One might say he and Elfman are heading for a "Final Confrontation" in that competition...

[Schilkeman 778]

46 minutes ago, Loert said:

It's note-for-note self-plagiarisation.

It absolutely is not note for note. There’s stuff going on in the low woodwinds that I don’t hear in any of the other examples given. The trumpet rhythmic patterns and fanfare is similar, but not the same.

[Muad'Dib 1,772]

My personal theory is that, similar to the situation on Rise of Skywalker, this temp-track love is something that helps Williams' speed up his writing process -and potentially dedicate his energy into juicier scenes.

 

I mean, you can hear the music in the clip, but it's not a game changer so I like to think that Johnny knows it might get buried in the mix, so he doesn't waste as much time and energy as he might have done in the past and makes some shortcuts. I mean, at this point in his carreer, what else can he do with action music that he hasn't done?

[Remco 685]

33 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

It absolutely is not note for note. There’s stuff going on in the low woodwinds that I don’t hear in any of the other examples given. The trumpet rhythmic patterns and fanfare is similar, but not the same.

Okay I checked out these spots and you’re absolutely right: it’s not note for note. Of course there is similarities in style, and in orchestration, but if this is the way we’re going to look at this score… come on guys.

[BB-8 2,964]

The official link seems to have vanished?

[Alex 2,743]

They read some posts in this forum and had to go and ask JW to do some rewrites.

[Jay 35,278]

It's still on youtube

 

 

[Remco 685]

3 hours ago, Loert said:

 

The one that jumped out at me the most is the similarity between the very ending of the clip and 1:52 from Indy's Great Escape (KOTCS):

 

 

It's note-for-note self-plagiarisation.

But then, this isn't the first time JW has done this...like, erm, the first 34 seconds of the track linked above is a good example. Though on the other hand, that seems more of a deliberate throwback, whereas the ending snippet in the new clip seems more like a "lift".

 

There is no answer to this question. What is certainly true is that action music tends to have more notes per second than, say, a love scene. Therefore it might be more strenuous to write out/orchestrate/make parts for an action scene. But how much time was put into coming up with the notes in the first place? That's entirely up to the composer.

 

Sorry, I was too quick to judge - that particular chord, indeed seems to be exactly the same.

[Loert 2,414]

I think we're missing the forest for the trees a bit...I don't claim to have the full scores for KOTCS and Dial of Destiny so I can't say for certain whether each instrument is playing exactly the same notes. But the basic musical idea is clearly the same.

[Remco 685]

1 hour ago, Loert said:

I think we're missing the forest for the trees a bit...I don't claim to have the full scores for KOTCS and Dial of Destiny so I can't say for certain whether each instrument is playing exactly the same notes. But the basic musical idea is clearly the same.

It seems to me that we’re talking about the amount of effort that was put in the score. In that case, copying note for note or reworking the same musical idea is actually quite a difference. Again to be clear - it does sound like that some parts are indeed copied.

[Tom 4,179]

The new phase of JWFAN: the letdown comes now before the score is released.