Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Cannes Score reactions)

[Jay 33,750]

Share any you find here! 

[BB-8 2,627]

Just been watching the below on French-German TV (JW mentioned once...):

 

https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/098137-000-A/indiana-jones-eine-saga-erobert-die-welt/

[Sandor 710]

Does this sound like a new recording to anyone?
 

https://twitter.com/variety/status/1659253569806114837?s=46&t=zM1vPrxUmgaDMc2MbV6lig

 

[Not Mr. Big 4,489]

I'm willing to bet nobody's going to say anything about the score except how it uses "the stirring, iconic titular march".  Critics very rarely comment on the actual specifics of scores like this

[Ricard 2,088]

1 minute ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I'm willing to bet nobody's going to say anything about the score except how it uses "the stirring, iconic titular march".  Critics very rarely comment on the actual specifics of scores like this

 

Spot on:

 

Quote

With genuine emotion sewn into the story, it's not just John Williams' instantly recognizable score that hits the right notes."

 

https://comicbook.com/movies/news/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-reactions-reviews-cannes-harrison-ford-indy-5/

[Not Mr. Big 4,489]

"Ford dons his iconic hat to the strains of John Williams' stupendous refrain"

[BB-8 2,627]

 

[Ricard 2,088]

Quote

Just hearing John Williams’ score, yet another variant on the heroics and theatrics of the original, makes anyone of a certain age feel that everything is momentarily right with the world.

 

https://deadline.com/2023/05/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-review-harrison-ford-phoebe-waller-bridge-1235371941/

[Cerebral Cortex 3,337]

37 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I'm willing to bet nobody's going to say anything about the score except how it uses "the stirring, iconic titular march".  Critics very rarely comment on the actual specifics of scores like this

 

I think my favorites are the reviews that talk about the score but use such pretentious and flowery language that you don't know what the fuck they're talking about. It's like they feel the need to mention the score to show how film literate they are but they didn't actually really listen to the score. It's like an AI-generated response. It's not super common, but there always is like one or two every review cycle and they always make me laugh. Something like: 

 

Quote

Within this captivating auditory expedition, Williams demonstrates an unwavering command of the orchestral palette, crafting a sonic lexicon that resonates with the collective consciousness. The result is an evocative amalgamation of sound and sentiment, where musical motifs intertwine with the essence of the film, imbuing each frame with an ineffable and transformative essence.

 

And it'll be from some guy called IndySolo69 on Twitter lol

 

25 minutes ago, Ricard said:

Just hearing John Williams’ score, yet another variant on the heroics and theatrics of the original, makes anyone of a certain age feel that everything is momentarily right with the world.

 

Okay, now THAT... that'll do quite nicely.

 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,383]

1 hour ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

And it'll be from some guy called IndySolo69 on Twitter lol

 

"Yo it had some dope songs." -Sir Vincent Leopold von Bancroft III, reporter for The Institute of Yorkshire Fine Arts Column

[Sandor 710]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-reviews/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-review-harrison-ford-james-mangold-1235495914/

 

‘This is a big, bombastic movie that goes through the motions but never finds much joy in the process, despite John Williams’ hard-working score continuously pushing our nostalgia buttons and trying to convince us we’re on a wild ride.’

 

Judging by the handful of reviews so far, the film isn’t that much of an improvement -if at all- over KOTCS. 

 

 

[Edmilson 5,716]

Yep, just as we predicted: the reviews only mention the nostalgia evoked by the classic themes. Not a single word on the newer themes or what novelties this score brings to the franchise. I guess regular film critics only recognize "classic themes" - and only care about scores when they're Zimmerized.

[Garrett 138]

13 minutes ago, Sandor said:

despite John Williams’ hard-working score continuously pushing our nostalgia buttons and trying to convince us we’re on a wild ride.’

This is a hilarious roast of the movie, but feels like a good sign for the score.

[Brando 1,393]

4 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

And it'll be from some guy called IndySolo69 on Twitter lol

I hate that this is accurate.

[crumbs 13,555]

Well I think if all else failed, the signs are very positive for the score. Johnny always works harder on the lesser movies

 

Shame the movie's apparently mediocre, I really thought Mangold would hit this one out of the park.

[TheUlyssesian 2,443]

I'm seeing this in an hour! I'll report back on the score!

[Ricard 2,088]

Quote

While Mangold’s film replicates many of the tropes of previous Indiana Jones instalments — and original composer John Williams contributes a score that reprises memorable themes — it’s missing their boyish spirit.

 

https://www.screendaily.com/reviews/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-cannes-review/5182251.article

 

Quote

And no, blasting the John Williams fanfare every ten seconds doesn’t mean that you’ve made a classic Indiana Jones adventure. The music, in fact, is so overused that it eventually acquires a nails-along-the-blackboard quality. “De de duh duh . . .” Oh, shut up!

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-review-even-fleabag-cant-rescue-him-this-time-xrlxsz5sg

[JTW 747]

6 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Yep, just as we predicted: the reviews only mention the nostalgia evoked by the classic themes. Not a single word on the newer themes or what novelties this score brings to the franchise. I guess regular film critics only recognize "classic themes" - and only care about scores when they're Zimmerized.

I’m guessing that would need a better film (but they’re all dead).

There’s a saying:

If you like the film, you like the score. 

[BB-8 2,627]

Yes he cannes.

[crumbs 13,555]

57 minutes ago, Ricard said:

And no, blasting the John Williams fanfare every ten seconds doesn’t mean that you’ve made a classic Indiana Jones adventure. The music, in fact, is so overused that it eventually acquires a nails-along-the-blackboard quality. “De de duh duh . . .” Oh, shut up!

 

This is actually quite reassuring! Critics are clearly on a different wavelength to what we want as JW fans.

[Richard Penna 2,971]

7 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Yep, just as we predicted: the reviews only mention the nostalgia evoked by the classic themes. Not a single word on the newer themes or what novelties this score brings to the franchise. I guess regular film critics only recognize "classic themes" - and only care about scores when they're Zimmerized.

 

I don't know what else people were expecting from this. Most people will recognise the Raiders March if anything. Few (or no) reviews from previews like this will go into detail about new themes, set pieces or the sort of stuff we're interested in.

 

Plus we've already established from Rickman's assessment of the HP score that even people deep in the industry don't like old-fashioned orchestral music that most of us find exciting, hence the 'overused' quote above.

 

The album or the film will tell us how good this score is, or at least someone from our community seeing it and providing an honest, non-crowd-pleasing assessment.

[Ricard 2,088]

Quote

The action scenes are dutiful and competent, and John Williams’ rousing score does a huge amount of the heavy lifting, but they lack real spark or excitement. 

 

https://www.dexerto.com/tv-movies/indiana-jones-5-dial-destiny-review-harrison-ford-turns-back-the-clock-2150385/

 

[TheUlyssesian 2,443]

Okay quick thoughts since I know you guys are waiting

 

• End credits order is Indy fanfare for the main credits (that appear one at a time) Maybe 2-2.5 mins
• Helena's theme begins when the scrolling portion starts. Full suite played.
• Following that - seemed to be like another suite, going through as many as 4-5 themes. Most of these are sinisite / villain or macguffin themes. I think there are 2-3 villain themes and 2-3 macguffin themes. This is where the credits end, the Indy fanfare is not reprised after the villain suite. (This could be a film cue too).

Some other thoughts 

 

• Honest to god, score is mixed well. None of should be able to complain. I could hear it throughout, but was I paying attention to it all the time? That's a different question. Guys, I am at Cannes and let me tell you this is a very tough place to watch movies. You are always exhausted and can't always focus. 
• Helena's theme in the score proper is frankly okay. It kinda even sounds different than the suite.
• There are several villainous themes as I noted above, they are good.
• I couldn't detect a direct Dial theme - it has some motifs for sure but I dunno if I might call it a direct theme. But then again, my mind is half shot at this point.
• I think there are some straight lifts from Tintin. I think the Tintin End Credits piece is ripped off for one of the set pieces. Almost note for note.
• B part of Indy's theme is also used.

 

If you have any questions, I can try to answer. But I'm in screenings all day long and don't really have much of a chance to check my phone.

 

Edit: orchestration and conducting is credited to Williams and Ross.

[Brónach 1,219]

ok some of that is weird

[Jilal 551]

23 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

• I think there are some straight lifts from Tintin. I think the Tintin End Credits piece is ripped off for one of the set pieces. Almost note for note.

 

Careful now! Observations of this kind aren't taken lightly here! 

[eitam 345]

16 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I think there are some straight lifts from Tintin. I think the Tintin End Credits piece is ripped off for one of the set pieces. Almost note for note.

 

Weird, but rather this than a straight lift from Adventures of Mutt... 

 

18 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

• B part of Indy's theme is also used.

 

YES ! 

[Jilal 551]

18 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

• Most of these are sinisite / villain or macguffin themes. I think there are 2-3 villain themes and 2-3 macguffin themes. 

• There are several villainous themes as I noted above, they are good.

 

This sounds promising though!

[crumbs 13,555]

38 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

If you have any questions, I can try to answer. But I'm in screenings all day long and don't really have much of a chance to check my phone.

 

A lot to unpack here, thanks for reporting back!

 

Can you describe the general vibe of the score? A continuation of the Star Wars sequels or something more akin to Indy 1-3? How was the music performance generally, did the Raiders March sound good? I never loved how that sounded in KOCS.

 

Without spoilers, were there some cool aggressive/classic-style Indy action cues akin to Belly of the Steel Beast/Desert Chase? Or is it more lighthearted like Whirl Through Academe/Adventures of Mutt?

 

Are there some standout moments where the music takes center stage?

 

And I guess most important of all - did you like the score?

[TheUlyssesian 2,443]

4 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

A lot to unpack here, thanks for reporting back!

 

Can you describe the general vibe of the score? A continuation of the Star Wars sequels or something more akin to Indy 1-3? How was the music performance generally, did the Raiders March sound good? I never loved how that sounded in KOCS.

 

Without spoilers, were there some cool aggressive/classic-style Indy action cues akin to Belly of the Steel Beast/Desert Chase? Or is it more lighthearted like Whirl Through Academe/Adventures of Mutt?

 

Are there some standout moments where the music takes center stage?

 

And I guess most important of all - did you like the score?

 

1. I think the vibe seemed to me to be maybe Tintin-ish and maybe even Star Wars prequel-y, in the sense it is a very busy scoring style I think. The music often lurches and pirouettes to reflect the action on screen. The raiders march does sound good. It is played at length a couple of times in the film proper.

 

2. Maybe a mix depending upon the set piece. THe rickshaw set piece that you've seen in the trailers should have sounded more fun but sounds a bit serious like. I could definitely hear some Tintin in there I thought.

 

3. There is one of those famous map transition scenes where the music plays without almost any FX.

 

4. Hmm. It's a Williams score. So of course I like it. I want to listen to it on album. Frankly I am more interested to hear all the villain stuff again than Helena's stuff. I think the villain themes are good. 

[Jilal 551]

5 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

There is one of those famous map transition scenes where the music plays without almost any FX.

 

 

[crumbs 13,555]

25 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

3. There is one of those famous map transition scenes where the music plays without almost any FX.

 

Very exciting! Hopefully not Flight From Peru for the third time

 

@TheUlyssesian Did you notice any cool source music that might have been JW?

 

[LB Makes Stuff 148]

38 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

1. I think the vibe seemed to me to be maybe Tintin-ish and maybe even Star Wars prequel-y, in the sense it is a very busy scoring style I think. The music often lurches and pirouettes to reflect the action on screen. The raiders march does sound good. It is played at length a couple of times in the film proper.

 

2. Maybe a mix depending upon the set piece. THe rickshaw set piece that you've seen in the trailers should have sounded more fun but sounds a bit serious like. I could definitely hear some Tintin in there I thought.

 

3. There is one of those famous map transition scenes where the music plays without almost any FX.

 

4. Hmm. It's a Williams score. So of course I like it. I want to listen to it on album. Frankly I am more interested to hear all the villain stuff again than Helena's stuff. I think the villain themes are good. 

How are the use of old cues and themes? Are they overused or is it a good balance?

[crumbs 13,555]

5 minutes ago, LB Makes Stuff said:

How are the use of old cues and themes? Are they overused or is it a good balance?

 

Maybe spoiler hide any old character themes that come back @TheUlyssesian, unless they're not spoilers (like a returning action motif or something random, like the Death Star motif in TLJ).

[TheUlyssesian 2,443]

1 minute ago, crumbs said:

 

Maybe spoiler hide any old character themes that come back @TheUlyssesian, unless they're not spoilers (like a returning action motif or something).

 

 

One old returns for sure -

Spoiler

Marion's theme is played twice

. For the others couldn't detect any other returning themes.

[crumbs 13,555]

By the way, did you actually like the film? I'm disappointed by all the mixed-negative reviews.

[TheUlyssesian 2,443]

27 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

Very exciting! Hopefully not Flight From Peru for the third time

 

@TheUlyssesian Did you notice any cool source music that might have been JW?

 

 

Did notice any source music.

 

4 minutes ago, LB Makes Stuff said:

How are the use of old cues and themes? Are they overused or is it a good balance?

 

As I noted I think most of the score is new. Indy theme is played of course multiple times.

[LB Makes Stuff 148]

Just now, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Did notice any source music.

 

 

As I noted I think most of the score is new. Indy theme is played of course multiple times.

Fantastic to hear, glad the one you covered is in there.

[Sandor 710]

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions about the score! @TheUlyssesian

 

Did you notice any choral elements?

[Alex 2,695]

1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Edit: All composing, orchestration and conducting is credited to William Ross

Wow, I can’t believe this.

[Jay 33,750]

Interesting stuff, @TheUlyssesian!  I for one am very happy to hear Tintin used as a reference - I love that score and was so bummer it never got sequels so we'd get more JW music in that world

[crumbs 13,555]

How much score would you estimate is in the film? Is it scored wall to wall or more moderately?

[Chen G. 3,366]

44 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

One old returns for sure -

 

 

Does it return merely for effect or is there something behind its appearances?

[Cerebral Cortex 3,337]

2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Okay quick thoughts since I know you guys are waiting

 

• End credits order is Indy fanfare for the main credits (that appear one at a time) Maybe 2-2.5 mins
• Helena's theme begins when the scrolling portion starts. Full suite played.
• Following that - seemed to be like another suite, going through as many as 4-5 themes. Most of these are sinisite / villain or macguffin themes. I think there are 2-3 villain themes and 2-3 macguffin themes. This is where the credits end, the Indy fanfare is not reprised after the villain suite. (This could be a film cue too).

Some other thoughts 

 

• Honest to god, score is mixed well. None of should be able to complain. I could hear it throughout, but was I paying attention to it all the time? That's a different question. Guys, I am at Cannes and let me tell you this is a very tough place to watch movies. You are always exhausted and can't always focus. 
• Helena's theme in the score proper is frankly okay. It kinda even sounds different than the suite.
• There are several villainous themes as I noted above, they are good.
• I couldn't detect a direct Dial theme - it has some motifs for sure but I dunno if I might call it a direct theme. But then again, my mind is half shot at this point.
• I think there are some straight lifts from Tintin. I think the Tintin End Credits piece is ripped off for one of the set pieces. Almost note for note.
• B part of Indy's theme is also used.

 

If you have any questions, I can try to answer. But I'm in screenings all day long and don't really have much of a chance to check my phone.

 

Edit: orchestration and conducting is credited to Williams and Ross.

 

I'd like this post twice if I could. Great way to start Friday with some actual score insight. Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts.

[Score 724]

@TheUlyssesian Did they use (or quote) "Sympathy for the Devil" anywhere in the movie score? Or was it used just for the trailer?

[Bespin 7,568]

6 minutes ago, Score said:

@TheUlyssesian Did they use (or quote) "Sympathy for the Devil" anywhere in the movie score? Or was it used just for the trailer?

 

I bet it is used for real in the movie, as it is set in 1969, and the song is from 1968.... So it fits.

[DangerMotif 904]

@TheUlyssesianHow was the prologue music? Did it feel like the first 3 or was it more modern?

there was no real dial theme???

Was the version over the end credits the Sophie Mutter version?

 

thanks

[Tom 4,008]

This critic bullet points the score as a highlight. 

https://nextbestpicture.com/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny/

 

[crumbs 13,555]

[JTW 747]

A nomination is almost certain, but I think he’ll be snubbed yet again, not that it matters anymore after all the dozens of times Williams was snubbed. 

[mrbellamy 5,898]

I've pointed this out before but the last two times he was snubbed for the entire year -- out of like six times ever since the late 60s -- were Crystal Skull and BFG, both expensive and tepidly received summer movies (and Cannes premieres! lol). Even JW isn't always immune to baggage and Oscar voters' memories are very short-term, anyway, so this feels like a potential nomination snub. But he could get more sentimental votes than for those two movies.