Top-10 Movie Disappointments

[Bellosh 3,397]

Ooooooooh I got one to add to my list.

 

Robin Hood (2010)

 

Sometimes "gritty" isn't better.

 

Prince of Thieves >

[Edmilson 7,394]

25 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

Ooooooooh I got one to add to my list.

 

Robin Hood (2010)

 

Sometimes "gritty" isn't better.

 

Prince of Thieves >

I vaguely remember seeing the 2010 Robin Hood in theaters, but I can't remember anything about the plot or characters. It's Ridley Scott's most forgettable epic ever.

[Bellosh 3,397]

The only thing I remember is the "theme" for Godfrey. Genuinely menacing.

[A24 4,326]

5 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I vaguely remember seeing the 2010 Robin Hood in theaters, but I can't remember anything about the plot or characters. It's Ridley Scott's most forgettable epic ever.

 

I guess you haven't seen Exodus: Of God And Kings.

[Holko 9,499]

He forgot it!

[GerateWohl 4,343]

Ridley Scott made quite a few forgettable movie. 

I bet, if Legend wouldn't have had that marbellous Goldsmith score nobody around here would ever mention that movie.

Hannibal is too bad to be forgotten. 

But still his Alien prequels are forgettable. And who remembers 1492 or G.I. Jane?

 

I liked his Robin Hood movie by the way. If you ignore that there is actually zero chemestry between Robin Hood and Maid Marian it is a good film. Better than the Kevin Costner one in my taste.

[Schilkeman 955]

8 hours ago, bruckhorn said:

After reading analysis of Williams' Star Wars and how it was influenced by the two

He borrowed the concept of the leitmotif, in terms of compositional style, they bear little resemblance to one another.

 

27 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

But still his Alien prequels are forgettable.

I like Prometheus quite a bit, but Scott seems to have two modes most of the time: among the greatest, and forgettable.

[A24 4,326]

23 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

I like Prometheus quite a bit, but Scott seems to have two modes most of the time: among the greatest, and forgettable.

 

With half the audience believing that Prometheus is the greatest while the other half believes it's his worst. 

[Holko 9,499]

20 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

He borrowed the concept of the leitmotif,

Hasn't it been part of film scoring for half a century by that point?

[Schilkeman 955]

7 minutes ago, AC1 said:

With half the audience believing that Prometheus is the greatest while the other half believes it's his worst. 

I find it one of his few in-between pictures. I like it, but it's not in the same league as Blade Runner and Alien

 

7 minutes ago, Holko said:

Hasn't it been part of film scoring for half a century by that point?

Did I imply that it wasn't? I said that he borrowed it, not that he was the first to do so.

[GerateWohl 4,343]

29 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

I find it one of his few in-between pictures. I like it, but it's not in the same league as Blade Runner and Alien

Prometheus would make a perfect tripple feature together with Hannibal and Exodus.

 

Oh wait. Rather watch Exodus in combination with Darren Aronofsky's Noah.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,504]

A Scott film that doesn't get enough love, is WHITE SQUALL.

[Brónach 1,301]

Ridley Scott is basically irrelevant.

[Romão 2,274]

4 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Ridley Scott made quite a few forgettable movie. 

I bet, if Legend wouldn't have had that marbellous Goldsmith score nobody around here would ever mention that movie.

Hannibal is too bad to be forgotten. 

But still his Alien prequels are forgettable. And who remembers 1492 or G.I. Jane?

 

 

1492 is shockingly bad.  How they decided to move forward with that script remains a mystery to me. It really is quite horrendous

[Chen G. 3,944]

4 hours ago, Holko said:

Hasn't it been part of film scoring for half a century by that point?

 

Kinda. Williams certainly didn't get it directly from Wagner: he got it from a previous generation of Wagnerian film composers.

 

But there is a point to be made about distinguishing the mature leitmotif technique of The Ring and the "reminiscence theme" technique that both preceded and followed The Ring. Williams technique is kinda between the two: structurally, it has as much in common with Lohengrin as it does with The Ring.

 

In the Ring, there are many "families" of themes (like in The Lord of the Rings). In Lohengrin, as in Star Wars, there are really just two: good guy themes, and bad guy themes. And where in The Ring these theme groups influence each other, in Lohengrin (and, largely, in Star Wars) they're mostly just there to be juxtaposed with one another.

[GerateWohl 4,343]

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

A Scott film that doesn't get enough love, is WHITE SQUALL.

 The dead poet's society goes to sea. Wasn't it even advertized this way?

 

I admit, Jeff Bridges as skipper looks better than Robin Williams as a teacher. But that's about it I would say.

The rest is... forgettable.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,504]

1 minute ago, GerateWohl said:

 The dead poet's society goes to sea. Wasn't it even advertized this way?

 

I admit, Jeff Bridges as skipper looks better than Robin Williams as a teacher. But that's about it I would say.

The rest is... forgettable.

 

Don't you mean: "a disappointment"? 

 

 

1 hour ago, Brónach said:

Ridley Scott is basically irrelevant.

 

He's become more irrelevant over time, but which director hasn't?

[A24 4,326]

I agree with everything except that Hannibal is forgettable. 

 

[GerateWohl 4,343]

1 hour ago, AC1 said:

I agree with everything except that Hannibal is forgettable. 

 

Thank you for bringing that memory back. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

I hate that as well.

 

Only psychos enjoy scenes like this.

[Edmilson 7,394]

8 hours ago, AC1 said:

 

I guess you haven't seen Exodus: Of God And Kings.

 

7 hours ago, Holko said:

He forgot it!

Actually, I did see Exodus, during Christmas 2014. My grandmother and my aunt tagged along, they were both very Catholic and wanted to see the "Moses movie". IIRC, they liked it, but not as much as the Biblical epics that air on TV during Easter. I thought it was better than Robin Hood... after all, as I said, I can't remember anything about RH! lol

[Sweeping Strings 2,346]

One amusing thing to come out of Scott's Robin Hood ... Crowe losing his shit and storming out of an interview when the interviewer pointed out that his accent in the film seemed to be, erm, 'multi-regional'.    

Granted, Costner's in Prince Of Thieves was pretty much his own. But as that movie's approach was pretty much escapist action-adventure, nobody really minded very much.  

[Marian Schedenig 8,175]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

7 hours ago, Holko said:

Hasn't it been part of film scoring for half a century by that point?

 

Kinda. Williams certainly didn't get it directly from Wagner: he got it from a previous generation of Wagnerian film composers.

 

To be fair, nobody in the discussion claimed that Williams himself got it directly from Wagner. Verdi was simply named (and then challenged) as the precursor to film scores. The added comment "where would John Williams be without him" is mainly a namedrop example. That said, I think Wagner's in influence on film scores goes far beyond his work with leitmotifs (which weren't exactly *invented* by him either), and without knowing too much about Verdi, I'd say Wagner was the greater influence of the two also on composers like Goldsmith (even excluding his relatively few "Romantic" scores). Certainly on Herrmann.

[Chen G. 3,944]

3 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

That said, I think Wagner's in influence on film scores goes far beyond his work with leitmotifs (which weren't exactly *invented* by him either)

 

I agree. The Leitmotif, as such, is only really a feature of The Ring anyway. And I would argue there's good grounds for suggesting The Ring is actually the least influential of Wagner's works.

 

Even in the Williams example, its perhaps more influenced (again, in a roundabout way) by Lohengrin.

[Edmilson 7,394]

16 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Granted, Costner's in Prince Of Thieves was pretty much his own. But as that movie's approach was pretty much escapist action-adventure, nobody really minded very much.  

I saw Prince of Thieves just once when I caught it on cable over a decade ago, when I was a teen. I liked it, but I dunno how it holds up today.

[Chen G. 3,944]

3 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I dunno how it holds up today.

 

I'll tell you: as a spectacular, absolutely hysterical piece of 1990s action cheese. It starts out in check, although Morgan Freeman playing an Arab is an early indication of what's up against, and then about a third of the way in, the cheesiness starts to mount to absurd degrees. And then, after the big climax, where you think this movie should have definitely come with a warning for the lactose intolerant, it ends with THAT CAMEO! Just to put a cherry on top of the cheesecake.

 

I laughed so friggin' hard! It was glorious!!

[A24 4,326]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

 

Actually, I did see Exodus, during Christmas 2014. My grandmother and my aunt tagged along, they were both very Catholic and wanted to see the "Moses movie". IIRC, they liked it, but not as much as the Biblical epics that air on TV during Easter. I thought it was better than Robin Hood... after all, as I said, I can't remember anything about RH! lol

 

You liked Exodus? That's very unusual. You probably watched it through the eyes of your company. 

[Schilkeman 955]

20 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

kick ass score by Queen

The soundtrack is by Queen. The score is Michael Kamen. And also kick-ass

[Naïve Old Fart 9,504]

I also like EXODUS: GODS AND KINGS.

Like NOAH, it takes diabolical liberties with the Biblical narrative, but it's not a bad film.

I wasn't disappointed with it.

 

 

 

 

20 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Highlander is great. Cool concept, beautiful visuals, tight script & kick ass score by Queen. Connery & Lambert radiate charisma & charm in their performances. The Kurgan is an awesome villain. Yes, parts of it, mostly the contemporary bits with the cops are dated, but all the flashbacks are very well done and MacLeod's NYC lair incredibly cool. And yes, Who Want's to Live Forever? is heartbreaking.  

 

I've visited the Clan MacLeod's castle. It's good.

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

1 hour ago, Schilkeman said:

The soundtrack is by Queen. The score is Michael Kamen. And also kick-ass

True, I was just thinking I remembered a lot of ambient guitar from Brian May throughout..but it’s been a while, maybe I’m mistaken.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,504]

52 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

The soundtrack is by Queen. The score is Michael Kamen. And also kick-ass

 

I hate to be a complete pedant, but...there was no soundtrack by Queen. They provided original songs (plus one older song), but no "soundtrack", as we know the term.

It's absolutely criminal that, with all their back catalogue being released, there are neither complete scores/songs for HIGHLANDER, or FLASH GORDON.

 

Along with BRAZIL and LICENCE TO KILL, HIGHLANDER completes my top-3 favourite Kamen scores.

[Bespin 8,480]

On 28/05/2023 at 1:34 PM, JTW said:

- Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace

 

Totally.

 

The LEGO version of the movie is better, as it truly captures the perspective of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's action-packed adventures.

 

I would like to see a recut of the movie that embraces a more linear plot similar to the LEGO game/movie.

 

Reduce the unnecessary focus on Nute Gunray, eliminate the midichlorian explanation, and introduce Maul at the same time the Jedi discover him. 

 

Additionally, make sure that Amidala's introduction takes place at a crucial juncture in the narrative, such as when the Jedi arrive to rescue her on Naboo.

[Chen G. 3,944]

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

Reduce the unnecessary focus on Nute Gunray, eliminate the midichlorian explanation, and introduce Maul at the same time the Jedi discover him. 

 

I actually think the thing that sinks the movie (or at least its pacing) is the Anakin storyline. They blast off from Naboo, and you'd think you're in for an exciting chase movie, and then...they land on Tatooine and...the movie kinda stalls. Okay, maybe that's being a little harsh: I think Tatooine is still mildly interesting for about fifteen or twenty minutes...and then it starts to drag.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,504]

Has anyone seen THE PHANTOM EDIT?

[Schilkeman 955]

[Bayesian 1,359]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

I actually think the thing that sinks the movie (or at least its pacing) is the Anakin storyline. They blast off from Naboo, and you'd think you're in for an exciting chase movie, and then...they land on Tatooine and...the movie kinda stalls. Okay, maybe that's being a little harsh: I think Tatooine is still mildly interesting for about fifteen or twenty minutes...and then it starts to drag.

OMG, yes! I remember feeling that too on opening day! It was such a weird feeling too, one that I felt guilty about having because I'd waited so long and with such anticipation for this movie. It was like I had to tell myself I was wrong for thinking that the pacing was bad, because how could a movie that had been so hyped up have that kind of a problem? (I also distinctly remember being dismayed at hearing words like "ambassador," "legal," and--my favorite--"negotiations" in the first 5 minutes of the movie.

[Bespin 8,480]

In the LEGO game, the duel of the fates occurs just before the Naboo battle, not simultaneously. One aspect I dislike about the Prequels is that they often tell two stories concurrently. This was less present in the original trilogy.

 

The widespread use of digital editing in movies has resulted in numerous negative consequences.

[filmmusic 1,823]

On 31/05/2023 at 8:34 AM, GerateWohl said:

And who remembers 1492

Me. I love it!

[Bespin 8,480]

On 31/05/2023 at 1:34 AM, GerateWohl said:

And who remembers 1492

 

I was not even born!

[Brónach 1,301]

5 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Has anyone seen THE PHANTOM EDIT?

 

Phantoms are notoriously invisible.

[Marian Schedenig 8,175]

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

In the LEGO game, the duel of the fates occurs just before the Naboo battle, not simultaneously. One aspect I dislike about the Prequels is that they often tell two stories concurrently. This was less present in the original trilogy.

 

That's pretty much what always struck me as a distinguishing feature of the OT. Obi-Wan sneaking around vs Luke & Han's more action heavy adventure on the Death Star. Luke on Dagobah and the others on Bespin. Luke confronting the Emperor vs the rest of the group confronting the Ewoks. Considering SW and LOTR (then yet un-live-action-filmed) were the two major epics of my youth, so the contrast between Lucas's intercut storytelling vs Tolkien milking a single story thread up to a major cliffhanger and then backtracking to a different thread for half a book was a pretty significant difference.

[GerateWohl 4,343]

8 hours ago, Bespin said:

 

I was not even born!

One more reason not to watch it.

[Chen G. 3,944]

12 hours ago, Bespin said:

One aspect I dislike about the Prequels is that they often tell two stories concurrently. This was less present in the original trilogy.

 

The widespread use of digital editing in movies has resulted in numerous negative consequences.

 

That's special pleading. The original Star Wars, which is certainly the smallest-scaled entry, is like that but even there you constantly cut away to the antagonists and for a while on the Death Star you get to follow old Ben separately from the rest of the gang. The Empire Strikes Back has two storylines: Luke and the Falcon Crew (three with Vader) intercut across the entire duration of the movie. Return of the Jedi has a climax that splits into three - Luke, the ground battle and the space battle. The Phantom Menace just upped it to four, and then it got dialed back to two for the next two prequels.

 

I do think if you're going to intercut more than two storylines, you better have a damn good reason to do so: more often than not, I find it to be too much and that's certainly the case from Return of the Jedi going forward.

 

As you can see, this has nothing to do with digital editing. Many of the "issues" we heap upon digital editing were present in the moviola days just the same. Directors turning in an edit only in the 11th hour? David Lean was pulling that on Maurice Jarre for years before the AVID was a glint in anyone's eye. Films being figured-out in the editing suite? Coppolla would like to have a word there.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,504]

Speaking of editing; one thing about STAR WARS that always amazes me is that, after Vader has captured Leia, the film forgets about her, and the Empire, for the next thirty minutes! Brilliant editing.

[Chen G. 3,944]

7 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

after Vader has captured Leia, the film forgets about her, and the Empire, for the next thirty minutes!

 

When they recut the film to get rid of Luke's early scenes, they also pushed all the cutaways to the Imperials to a later point in the runtime: I think originally we would meet Tarkin (who's really the big-bad of the movie: certainly not Vader) at the 20 minute mark.

 

We do get a glimpse of Leia's interrogation, though.

[Brónach 1,301]

the final film is structured to perfection. it's the best movie of all of those.

[Chen G. 3,944]

Eh. I always thought there was more tension to be wrung from stuff like how the Jawas menace R2D2. The sequence of shots seems all wrong to me, personally.

[Brónach 1,301]

granted i dont remember them minute details, i mean the overall sequence of events

 

my complaint is that the rebel soldiers in the ship don't look cool enough! everything in this movie should be played to look cool (except maybe some stuff in Tattoine).

 

oh look it's an star wars thread now.

[GerateWohl 4,343]

You both watched that movie definitely too often.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,504]

3 hours ago, Brónach said:

oh look it's an star wars thread now.

 

Don't you even think about it