Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Score in the film) - SPOILERS ALLOWED!

[Alex Shore 83]

Why Johnny didn't use this new arrangement of the Raider's March?

 

Love the woodwinds and the new ending!

 

 

[Brónach 1,275]

...great, another one

[Tom 4,161]

I just wish Williams would stop composing great music.   

[Edmilson 6,105]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

great music.   

60 to 70% of which we won't hear for at least a few decades.

[GerateWohl 3,644]

Went to the Cinema today watching DoD and most of all enjoyed the great music.

[Datameister 1,876]

On 14/07/2023 at 7:29 AM, Edmilson said:

60 to 70% of which we won't hear for at least a few decades.

 

60 to 70% of which we've already been hearing for at least a few decades. 

 

Sorry. Just not fond of the COS/Home Alone 2/DOD approach that relies so heavily on existing material. TLJ has some of that too. At JW's age, he's earned the chance to take this approach now, but I can't enjoy it the way I enjoy a score that makes minimal use of stuff he's already written.

[Not Mr. Big 4,533]

1 hour ago, Datameister said:

 

60 to 70% of which we've already been hearing for at least a few decades. 

 

Sorry. Just not fond of the COS/Home Alone 2/DOD approach that relies so heavily on existing material. TLJ has some of that too. At JW's age, he's earned the chance to take this approach now, but I can't enjoy it the way I enjoy a score that makes minimal use of stuff he's already written.

I feel like DOD's original material at least feels more distinct and separate than TLJ (where the reused material formed the foundation of the score). 

 

If anything the DOD OST doesn't have enough Indy's theme, focusing largely on Helena's theme

[geom_00 15]

I haven't read the entire thread, and can't at the moment (Posting quickly at work), so please forgive me if this was already asked.

 

Did anyone else hear shades of "The Duel" from Adventures of Tintin at a couple of places in the movie?

 

 

[paleo 60]

13 minutes ago, geom_00 said:

I haven't read the entire thread, and can't at the moment (Posting quickly at work), so please forgive me if this was already asked.

 

Did anyone else hear shades of "The Duel" from Adventures of Tintin at a couple of places in the movie?

 

 

Oh yes :-) It was mentioned many times here.

[geom_00 15]

26 minutes ago, paleo said:

Oh yes :-) It was mentioned many times here.

Thank you.  Glad I am not the only one to picked up on that!

 

Sorry for being able to read the entire thread before posting.

[Muad'Dib 1,772]

Saw the film yesterday with my partner -we both enjoyed it quite a bit. It's far from perfect, but I had a lot of fun. Surprised me how violent it was, sometimes it was fun and sometimes it felt like a little too much.

 

Anyways, regarding the score what surprised me was the fact of the tiny bits they used from KOTCS -I expected them to avoid that one and stick to the original trilogy, but hey, I think I know KOTCS from start to finish so it was a welcome surprise for me. I heard some Jungle Chase in the prologue and they seemed to have really dug this bit as they used it at least two or three times:

 

 

Sometimes it felt like they were throwing temp-track around without much thought, but all the re-recorded and re-written bits sounded great -in terms of the orchestra and room, not so much in the specific places they decided to use them. That felt like a mixed bag for me.

 

I gotta say though, when the end credits started I was thinking: Wow, this might be the last new Williams' score I'll hear in theaters. And as I sat watching the credits roll, I really enjoyed myself listening to the music -even if it wasn't a traditional end credits suite, as we might have hoped and liked. 

 

Having heard the score before seeing the movie, I was humming along with all the cool melodies (old a new) the end credits suite had to offer -and I also thought: man, these are some great tunes! Listen to that orchestra! Those harmonies! 

 

Truly great stuff. Here's hoping the maestro's got one or two more under the bag, but if he doesn't feel the need to, I feel like this is a good closure to that stage of his career. 

[Alex Shore 83]

Lots of UNRELEASED MUSIC in this VIDEO:

 

 

[Tydirium 1,063]

37 minutes ago, Alex Shore said:

Lots of UNRELEASED MUSIC in this VIDEO:

 

 

 

Just saw this! Seems to be mostly from the opening. So frustrating.

[mrbellamy 5,990]

2 hours ago, Muad'Dib said:

Here's hoping the maestro's got one or two more under the bag, but if he doesn't feel the need to, I feel like this is a good closure to that stage of his career. 

 

Definitely will be interesting to see Spielberg make something now and find out what Williams decides to do. It still seems weird to think about this being the last, but something will have to be eventually.

 

The big relief and truly the craziest thing to think about is that he's finally completed 4/4 of the big scores I hoped to get when Disney bought Lucasfilm in 2012. Considering he was already 80, I don't know how I would have felt knowing we were ultimately looking at a 10.5 year timeline. Global pandemic somewhere in there, nbd. 

 

Look at my damn sig. I thought I was being cautiously optimistic rooting for him to finish Episode IX at 87. IT'S BEEN 3.5 YEARS. I'm sorry, I know that everything on here goes back to his age but I'll never get over it. It's badass and it's been such a factor in anticipating these things.

 

More than a decade, Jesus. This really feels like coming out of a JWFan fever dream. Back to wondering if there'll be a Spielberg movie anytime soon, eh? 

[Damien F 1,614]

I can see JW being tempted to score Spielberg's Bullitt movie. I doubt it would be as time consuming as the Star Wars sequels and DOD. However, I'm pretty sure Mangold will be the last director to work with JW who isn't Spielberg.

[mrbellamy 5,990]

You say that but it did take us only three months between not knowing The Book Thief existed to having a new John Williams soundtrack in our hands. Somebody's just gotta fortuitously adapt his new favorite bestseller. 

 

No but obviously I am only expecting him to relent to Spielberg, if he does at all. And anything by Spielberg could be fertile territory for a JW score and therefore disappointing if it didn't pan out. I want JW to go on forever. But in a very real way, I feel content not to have anything on the horizon. Sometimes we've talked about how the 2010s felt like getting bonus scores from JW but now that he's publicly considered retirement and Disney/Lucasfilm has totally blown their load on "victory lap" legacy projects, it really, REALLY feels like everything's extra frosting from here on out.

 

The only absolute fucking cherry on top left before he turned 100 would be a fifth Olympics theme for 2028 Los Angeles. Truly, upon hearing that, I would probably die before he did. 

[CompleteRecordingSessions 31]

I know it's a bit late, and there have been countless other posts like this, but I just thought I'd share my thoughts on some of my favorite unreleased cues: 

 

- Right from the beginning, I absolutely love the score's usage of snare drums. Hearing the snare when the title card appeared was amazing. I also love the subtle woodwind rendition of the 'Raiders March' that scores Indy's first appearance. 

 

- Yes, there are a lot of musical quotes from previous films during the prologue. It was actually hard for me to focus on all the action during the prologue because I was paying so much attention to all the re-recorded/temped music! Still, it was nice hearing the re-used music in amazing theater sound quality. 

 

- The rendition of the 'Raiders March' that scores Indy running on top of the train is so good! However, I think it was an insert. 

 

- When Basil discovers the Antikythera on the train, there is an amazing ascending string motif that I do not think re-appears in the score.

 

- The New York chase sequence features a lot of interesting unreleased music. The piano writing reminded me of the Williams performed 'Peter Gunn' theme. 

 

- While the film version/insert of Helena's Theme that scores the 'To Morocco' scene is much shorter than the album version, it is still a very satisfying arrangement. 

 

- The 'Lost World-esque' timpani writing that scores the diving scene sounded amazing in the theater.

 

So yeah, those are my favorite unreleased cues from the film. I really hope for an FYC/Isolated Score, but I also really enjoy the OST. If only it were 13 minutes longer!

 

 

 

[Andy 3,522]

15 hours ago, CompleteRecordingSessions said:

 

- The 'Lost World-esque' timpani writing that scores the diving scene sounded amazing in the theater

 

YES!!! That wonderful dry timpani is so lacking in other scores in favor of mushy percussion or take drums.   I just loved hearing this, although I associated it with more Original Star Wars era timpani than even Lost World. 

[crumbs 13,858]

5 hours ago, Andy said:

YES!!! That wonderful dry timpani is so lacking in other scores in favor of mushy percussion or take drums.   I just loved hearing this, although I associated it with more Original Star Wars era timpani than even Lost World. 

 

This should be a shoe-in for the FYC.

[Presto 4,657]

5 hours ago, Andy said:

YES!!! That wonderful dry timpani is so lacking in other scores in favor of mushy percussion or take drums.   I just loved hearing this, although I associated it with more Original Star Wars era timpani than even Lost World. 

Revenge of the Sith.

[BB-8 2,942]

I've only just now realized that much of the Nazi-action-music was taken from TLC - also the parts that remind me of E1 TPM.

[Docteur Qui 1,527]

On 21/07/2023 at 11:38 AM, Signals said:

Revenge of the Sith.

 

ROTS timpani is awful IMO. All the raw power of it is completely neutralised by the dry and distant mixing. I'm not inherently opposed to a drier mix for percussion - I think it sounds great in DoD - but ROTS was unforgivable for me.

[DangerMotif 984]

I hope this music gets released 

https://youtu.be/dqY47MV2dFY

[Brando 1,614]

So good.

[Steve 539]

Didn't read back all posts so don't know if this has been discussed before, here is my question: As the nazi action scene in the  beginning takes place in france, why is it called "Germany 1944" on the soundtrack? Just a mistake?

[Jay 34,938]

Yeah

[Amer 1,975]

They should gix this in the blu ray release. Unless Mangold thinks occupied France was Germany.

[Jay 34,938]

There is no on-screen chyron that says its Germany.  It's only the original soundtrack album that says its Germany.

 

The film having no on-screen chyron indicating the place and time of the opening scene breaks tradition with the previous 4 films.

[BB-8 2,942]

How do we know it's France?

[Jay 34,938]

Through dialogue and visual clues.

[Luke Skywalker 1,668]

Were germany occupied territories part of germany? 
 

i mean, if you see a map of the roman empire, all conquered territories are part of the roman empire. Did it work the same in the wwii? 

 

[Bellosh 2,964]

1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Were germany occupied territories part of germany? 
 

i mean, if you see a map of the roman empire, all conquered territories are part of the roman empire. Did it work the same in the wwii? 

 

 

Probably Mangold's only excuse if he even knows about this.

 

It'd be more safe to call it Occupied France back then versus Germany if anything. But that would be a lame track title lol

 

But when the D-Day landings happen in Normandy, I'm sure even the most casual person who has just a little bit of knowledge of WWII wouldn't view that as invading 'Germany' so much as fighting Germany.

 

This just feels a bit sloppy on Mangold's part if it isn't a simple mistake by JW (ain't gonna blame him)

 

Mangold replies to tweets. The dude can look at cue titles.

 

Maybe Mangold thinks it Germany? I have no idea lol

 

I did read a theory that it should have been Germany, 1945…as that's when Germany the country begins to fall in the war.  So you could actually believe it was a castle in Berlin or something. But why are they hightailing it towards an allied country?  Also aren't the French Alps pretty far from Germany?

 

[Marian Schedenig 7,491]

Then again they also refer to Austria in 1938 in Last Crusade, and unless that took part before the middle of March, Austria voluntarily didn't exist at the time.

[Bellosh 2,964]

13 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Then again they also refer to Austria in 1938 in Last Crusade, and unless that took part before the middle of March, Austria voluntarily didn't exist at the time.

 

I believe in the movie Kazim says Austrian-German border? If that helps or not I personally don't know 

[Marian Schedenig 7,491]

Austria voluntarily became a part of Germany in March 1938. From then until the end of WW2 in 1945, there was no Austria, ergo no Austrian-German border.

[Bellosh 2,964]

Well there ya go then!

 

31 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Austria voluntarily became a part of Germany in March 1938. From then until the end of WW2 in 1945, there was no Austria, ergo no Austrian-German border.

 

also sorry, i didn't even see until now you're in (from?) Austria!  

[Edmilson 6,105]

Me waiting for the cue by cue breakdown of the score:

 

[Jay 34,938]

I have a good reason why I've been unable to do so (or even START on it yet), but that reason might be over now, and I might be able to start this weekend!

[Bellosh 2,964]

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

I have a good reason why I've been unable to do so (or even START on it yet), but that reason might be over now, and I might be able to start this weekend!

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,668]

10 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Austria voluntarily became a part of Germany in March 1938. From then until the end of WW2 in 1945, there was no Austria, ergo no Austrian-German border.

But would ‘austria’ be still its own region within germany? So there would be a border …

[crumbs 13,858]

10 hours ago, Jay said:

I have a good reason why I've been unable to do so (or even START on it yet), but that reason might be over now, and I might be able to start this weekend!

 

I only discovered today that the first chunk of OST The Airport actually covers the scene where Indy is kidnapped and Helena steals the bike, followed by a big chunk of unreleased (WOTW-esque) music en route to the airport, which is trimmed from the album track.

 

I'd love to know whether Water Ballet is tracked into the time fissure scene, too (or if JW just lifted that segment from the other cute and recorded it twice). Intriguing that it's preceded by more lifted music (the end of Spell of the Skull from Crystal Skull).

[Marian Schedenig 7,491]

5 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

But would ‘austria’ be still its own region within germany? So there would be a border …

 

No. The name "Österreich" was not used while it was part of Nazi Germany, it was known as "Ostmark" instead. So if anything it would have been the Ostmark-Bavarian border I suppose.

 

The idea was (and still is in… certain circles) that Austria was never supposed to be its own country and is forever a region of Germany, therefore the name its known as as a country is invalid.

[Holko 8,886]

4 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

No. The name "Österreich" was not used while it was part of Nazi Germany, it was known as "Ostmark" instead. So if anything it would have been the Ostmark-Bavarian border I suppose.

Even if so, if the movie's set in summer 1938, is that something a Turkish Hatayian secret group leader would have adopted in a few months and used when informing an American?

[Marian Schedenig 7,491]

5 minutes ago, Holko said:

Even if so, if the movie's set in summer 1938, is that something a Turkish Hatayian secret group leader would have adopted in a few months and used when informing an American?

 

Possibly/probably/hopefully not. But at least the cue title Journey to Austria is wrong.

 

In that regard, I've also always wondered if the little Austrian flag on the motorboat in Venice is plausible. Time-wise, it could just be a remnant from before March 1938, but I suppose if correct it would have to be a naval flag/jack (I'm not sufficiently nautically educated to be clear on the exact difference) - and it doesn't like like there ever was one of those without the eagle.

[Bellosh 2,964]

2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

In that regard, I've also always wondered if the little Austrian flag on the motorboat in Venice is plausible. Time-wise, it could just be a remnant from before March 1938, but I suppose if correct it would have to be a naval flag/jack (I'm not sufficiently nautically educated to be clear on the exact difference) - and it doesn't like like there ever was one of those without the eagle.

 

whoa never noticed that!

 

but i did just youtube the scene to catch it and noticed the 2 other motorboats that follow in pursuit have black lines where the red ones are on the one you're referencing.  So either those are supposed to be red or the red one being the Austrian flag is just pure coincidence?

 

I googled nautical flags and the J -Juliet pattern/code is the one that resembles the ones on the boat.  and funny enough, it's code for "on fire and have dangerous cargo, keep clear". . Maybe it's just Spielberg having some fun?  I honestly don't know.

 

[Brónach 1,275]

it's a bit of a fantasy late thirties the way one would imagine it: that blimp route didn't exist, and all blimp routes may have ceased to operate by this point, perhaps by little, i don't remember the dates now. the dates of things in the movie may well be all jumbled up, preventing concrete identification.

 

i mean raiders has german military units in Egypt.

[Marian Schedenig 7,491]

Right, the blimp chronology was the other thing we wondered about when I recently watched it again with friends. (It's not that I'm complaining anyway, I love the film)

 

By the way, the new Mission: Impossible film has a lengthy sequence on the Orient Express in Innsbruck. I tried to read up on that; apparently, there currently is no train route officially called Orient Express at all.  

41 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

By the way, the new Mission: Impossible film has a lengthy sequence on the Orient Express in Innsbruck. I tried to read up on that; apparently, there currently is no train route officially called Orient Express at all.  

 

…or apparently there is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice-Simplon_Orient_Express

 

The Venice-Simplon Orient Express seems to match the route and the design in the film. In my defense, the history is pretty confusing when you start with the Wikipedia article for the actual Orient Express, and it also says this:

 

Quote

These VSOE services are not to be confused with a regularly scheduled train called the Orient Express, which ran nightly between Paris and Bucharest – in the last years of operation cut back to between Strasbourg and Vienna – until 11 December 2009.

 

[iamleyeti 113]

Seen the movie last Friday. A decent Indiana Jones movie but I was excepting a bit more from Mangold (every action sequence is shot in a weird close-up way, why?) and the script which is extremely long and goes nowhere for 2 solid hours. Bad guys were useless, allies are sacrificed too early… it's curiously messy until… until Sicily and then I was in heaven. The last bit, the siege, Archimedes… this sequence is truly amazing, giving incredible vibes, offering something a bit different than the usual "dark and tortured" last act towards something light and sunny.

 

The music is really stunning when you can hear it. The themes are introduced and slowly evolve, revealing their full colors at the right moment, when you can hear them. Williams has proven, again and again, that he is a master storyteller and, when you can hear it, the music carries so much of emotional and thematic meaning. When you can hear the orchestra, it lush and special. What a treat for those who found a way to listen to the music over what is the most boring and dull sound mixing of the XXIst century.

[Bellosh 2,964]

3 hours ago, iamleyeti said:

Seen the movie last Friday. A decent Indiana Jones movie but I was excepting a bit more from Mangold (every action sequence is shot in a weird close-up way, why?) and the script which is extremely long and goes nowhere for 2 solid hours. Bad guys were useless, allies are sacrificed too early… it's curiously messy until… until Sicily and then I was in heaven. The last bit, the siege, Archimedes… this sequence is truly amazing, giving incredible vibes, offering something a bit different than the usual "dark and tortured" last act towards something light and sunny.

 

The music is really stunning when you can hear it. The themes are introduced and slowly evolve, revealing their full colors at the right moment, when you can hear them. Williams has proven, again and again, that he is a master storyteller and, when you can hear it, the music carries so much of emotional and thematic meaning. When you can hear the orchestra, it lush and special. What a treat for those who found a way to listen to the music over what is the most boring and dull sound mixing of the XXIst century.

 

good post. agreed 100% 

 

even the back half of KOTCS, as sloppy as it is, is still paced well and concise.

 

thank god Mangold nailed the macguffin ending

[Mr. Who 868]

I saw the movie for a second time and have to say that I enjoyed it a lot more the second time. I’m still not crazy about the old depressed Indy thing they have going on but overall the movie is very fun and well made!

 

The score is even better after having listened to the OST a lot (I saw the movie first time without having heard the ost) so I started really noticing themes and unreleased music in the film. Helena’s theme is so good and I think my favorite cue in the film is To Morocco, with the pensive Indy variation and then the cut to Helena on the plane. The tintin sounding cue at the auction is another highlight as well as the whole Morocco action music.

 

Let’s hope that there’s a good FYC later this year because there’s a lot of music missing!