Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Score in the film) - SPOILERS ALLOWED!

[willieround83 8]

1 minute ago, paleo said:

Certainly better than 95 % of other current scores for simular movies.

No disagreement from me. JW at his worst is 95% better than most scores/composers at their best. Especially in the current day and age. I miss the 80s/90s and the pillars of that era, including Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, Poledouris... and the list goes on. I sometimes like to think they kept each other on their toes -- not necessarily "competing," -- but bringing out the absolute best in each other.

[Darth Crossfader 583]

Thought it'd be fun to assemble a list of all cues from previous scores referenced in the prologue. In order of appearance:

 

X Marks the Spot (TLC)

Keeper of the Grail (TLC) [Thanks to @paleo!]

Belly of the Steel Beast (TLC)

R3P4-R4P1 The Medallion (ROTLA)

R11P4 The Broken Bridge (TOD)

R1P6 Once in a Vial (TOD)

R8P5 Pffist Fight (ROTLA)

R2P2 The Boat Scene (TLC)

R10P3-R11P1 On the Tank (TLC)

3M5 The Conveyor Belt (Minority Report)

3M4 Anderton's Great Escape (Minority Report)

R2PA Sub Commander (1941)

7M53 Kathy Kennedy's Great Flying Machine (KOTCS)

5M38 Andy's Full Nelson (KOTCS)

R10P6 The Nazi Hideout (ROTLA)

2M8C Indy Versus The Russian (KOTCS)

2M11 Prairie Dog and Nuclear Cloud (KOTCS)

R1P3 The Rolling Ball (ROTLA)

End Credits (ROTLA)

 

I also seem to recognize the following two bits, but can't quite place them:

 

 

 

[paleo 72]

There's definitely "Keeper of the Grail" in there, too

[Darth Crossfader 583]

5 minutes ago, paleo said:

There's definitely "Keeper of the Grail" in there, too

 

I do seem to remember hearing some eerie strings somewhere. I'll check it out!

 

Is it this particular moment you're referring to?

 

 

[King Mark 3,730]

I was listening to an audio clip of the film and he moment when Voller assembles the Dial is pretty great. Seems like the unreleased climax of the track Archimedes Tomb

[willieround83 8]

7 minutes ago, Damien F said:

 

What tracks do you consider filler?

 

I kinda mean... all of them. Look, I get opinions and the euphemisms about them, but are we really objectively comparing Tuk Tuk to Desert Chase, Mine Car Chase, Belly of the Steel Beast and Jungle Chase and not coming away with the age old Sesame Street lesson of "one of these things doesn't belong?"  

[paleo 72]

3 minutes ago, King Mark said:

I was listening to an audio clip of the film and he moment when Voller assembles the Dial is pretty great. Seems like the unreleased climax of the track Archimedes Tomb

It is. As I said elsewhere, as is typical of Indy movies.

8 minutes ago, Jilal said:

Is it this particular moment you're referring to?

 

 

Yep

[Damien F 1,774]

1 minute ago, willieround83 said:

 

I kinda mean... all of them. Look, I get opinions and the euphemisms about them, but are we really objectively comparing Tuk Tuk to Desert Chase, Mine Car Chase, Belly of the Steel Beast and Jungle Chase and not coming away with the age old Sesame Street lesson of "one of these things doesn't belong?"  

 

You think all of them are filler! No track at all is worth any merit!?  Obviously I totally disagree.

 

Expecting DOD to be like the original trilogy or even KOTCS is setting yourself up for disappointment. Williams' current style and the modern industry's impact on his scoring technique just won't allow that to happen. But the actual music we did get in this score is brilliant. Just as an example, the trio of tracks The Airport, Battle, and Centuries Join Hands are top notch scoring. Helena's theme and the Archimedes theme is equal to if not better to the themes in KOTCS in my opinion.

[willieround83 8]

2 minutes ago, Damien F said:

 

You think all of them are filler! No track at all is worth any merit!?  Obviously I totally disagree.

 

Expecting DOD to be like the original trilogy or even KOTCS is setting yourself up for disappointment. Williams' current style and the modern industry's impact on his scoring technique just won't allow that to happen. But the actual music we did get in this score is brilliant. Just as an example, the trio of tracks The Airport, Battle, and Centuries Join Hands are top notch scoring. Helena's theme and the Archimedes theme is equal to if not better to the themes in KOTCS in my opinion.

 

No, I think you misunderstood me. None of those are filler. Only Tuk Tuk is filler, in my opinion. ALL the others are masterpieces, which is the point when comparing to Tuk Tuk (not a masterpiece, much closer to "filler"). And, I appreciate and respect your opinion on the the pieces you referenced from DoD. I don't share them. I'm envious as I wish I did. But I am grateful that you shared them with me -- if we were in person together, I'd buy you a beer and celebrate all of the JW awesomeness that we probably do agree on.

[King Mark 3,730]

1 hour ago, paleo said:

It is. As I said elsewhere, as is typical of Indy movies.

Yep

There's 13 minutes of blank space on the c.d. and they still managed to edit out the best part of cues

 

And there's absolutely  no excuse for the full End Credits not to be on  the OST

[paleo 72]

1 minute ago, King Mark said:

There's 13 minutes of blank space on the c.d. and they still managed to edit out the best part of cues

He just seems to love to do this. LC was even worse. The album was shorter and actually almost sounded like a different score than the one heard in the movie.

[willieround83 8]

37 minutes ago, Damien F said:

 

You think all of them are filler! No track at all is worth any merit!?  Obviously I totally disagree.

 

Expecting DOD to be like the original trilogy or even KOTCS is setting yourself up for disappointment. Williams' current style and the modern industry's impact on his scoring technique just won't allow that to happen. But the actual music we did get in this score is brilliant. Just as an example, the trio of tracks The Airport, Battle, and Centuries Join Hands are top notch scoring. Helena's theme and the Archimedes theme is equal to if not better to the themes in KOTCS in my opinion.

 

Well, damn. You didn't misunderstand me. I misunderstood you. My apologies. I thought you meant that I was saying Desert Chase, Mine Car Chase, Belly of the Steel Beast, et al was not worth merit. You were correct, I am taking the controversial stance that few to none of the DoD tracks are beyond typical filler. I assume you'll remove your "like" from my previous post, but I'll still buy you that beer!

[Damien F 1,774]

36 minutes ago, willieround83 said:

 

Well, damn. You didn't misunderstand me. I misunderstood you. My apologies. I thought you meant that I was saying Desert Chase, Mine Car Chase, Belly of the Steel Beast, et al was not worth merit. You were correct, I am taking the controversial stance that few to none of the DoD tracks are beyond typical filler. I assume you'll remove your "like" from my previous post, but I'll still buy you that beer!

 

Obviously I totally disagree with your assessment that the entire DOD album is filler but we'll agree to disagree.

[Holko 10,396]

It rewards relistening and analysis, the motif breakdowns already posted here certainly help.

[King Mark 3,730]

I have a feeling we'll bee analysing this score for the many months to come

[Jay 39,755]

The Nazi Might theme and Dial theme made the biggest impressions on me in the theater seeing the movie for the first time. 

 

I know Voller is often scored by his theme and Helena hers, but idk, those didn't really stand out on first watch. 

 

I really liked all the original music during the prologue and wish that was in the Germany 1944 track instead of the On The Tank and March Coda stuff. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,589]

6 minutes ago, Jay said:

The Nazi Might theme and Dial theme made the biggest impressions on me in the theater seeing the movie for the first time. 

 

I know Voller is often scored by his theme and Helena hers, but idk, those didn't really stand out on first watch. 

 

I really liked all the original music during the prologue and wish that was in the Germany 1944 track instead of the On The Tank and March Coda stuff. 

 

Voller theme might be lost on a first watch - it is subtle. 

 

i said the same thing about Helena. williams goes through sooooooo many different guises and versions and manipulations that often it is hard to even identify that it is her theme. 

 

also - dunno if you also got that - but in some versions of the theme - it sounds like a bad guy theme. 

 

it's interesting Nazi Might theme stood out because per my estimation it appears just 3 times - once over the title card, once when the Nazi plane is revealed during 3rd act (the plane they use to travel back in time), and then during end credits.

[Pat_S 72]

2 hours ago, Jilal said:

R11P4 The Broken Bridge (TOD)

I’m pretty sure that The Walls Converge also appears. I don’t have the means to find the clip to prove my point, but I think it may have been 1:59 of 

Feel free to correct me. 

 

Aside, do you think the eel scene was temped with the Aliens score? I heard some similarities. I also heard some similar pizz strings ideas to Maleficio from Witches of Eastwick. 

[Brando 2,180]

19 minutes ago, Pat_S said:

but I think it may have been 1:59 of 

No this was definitely there 

[Jay 39,755]

3 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

it's interesting Nazi Might theme stood out because per my estimation it appears just 3 times - once over the title card, once when the Nazi plane is revealed during 3rd act (the plane they use to travel back in time), and then during end credits.

 

Oops, I might have said the wrong name. It was the one that got a big presentation early in the prologue showing all the Nazis, and again later around when Voller switched to his Nazi outfit 

[TheUlyssesian 2,589]

30 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Oops, I might have said the wrong name. It was the one that got a big presentation early in the prologue showing all the Nazis, and again later around when Voller switched to his Nazi outfit 

 

No that's the one. You got it right.

[D_A_R_T_H 25]

Spoiler

01. Germany, 1944.flac
02. Voller Returns.flac
03. The Dial of Destiny (Prologue , 00:00 - 1.00)
....
16. New York, 1969.flac
17. End Credits (Helena's theme + The Dial of Destiny (1:00 - End) 

....
Helena's Theme (For Violin and Orchestra).flac

 

[crumbs 14,904]

Correct.

 

Listener's discretion where they place the 3 suites of Helena's Theme. Personally I think the first minute of Prologue works great as an album opener, with the orchestral version placed after New York 1969, as it appears in the film.

 

The violin version... probably after Germany 1944.

[DrTenma 117]

I didn't like the film but I enjoyed more the score. I really like the KOTCS bit during the plane-time-travel scene (mainly because that part of the score), and the new material stuck for me.

 

Anyway, it has too many references to previous films. Makes me wonder if Williams wasn't enthusiastic about the film, someone just really liked the temp tracks or if Williams just felt too old for 150 minutes of new material...

[D_A_R_T_H 25]

Chronological Order (i think) 
 

03. Germany, 1944
05. Voller Returns.flac
01. The Dial of Destiny (prologue 00:00 - 1:00)
04. To Morocco
06. Auction at Hotel L'Atlantique
07. Tuk Tuk in Tangiers
08. To Athens
09. Perils of the Deep
10. Water Ballet
11. Polybius Cipher
12. The Grafikos
13. Archimedes' Tomb
14. The Airport
15. Battle of Syracuse
16. Centuries Join Hands
17. New York, 1969 - the Raider's March
02. Helena's Theme.+ Prologue (1:00 - End)

18. Helena's Theme (For Violin and Orchestra).flac

[Jay 39,755]

9 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

No that's the one. You got it right.

 

Well then yes, that theme to me had a strong and clear presence in the film. It's a big melodic catchy theme, played boldly with relatively few other sounds over it, and it's very clear exactly what it represents. 

 

To me it made itself known way more than themes that appear more often, like Helena's or Voller's. Those characters to me didn't get clearly scored with big versions of their themes like say, Indy does in each movie, or the way Marion or Short Round do, etc. For me anyway. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,741]

5 hours ago, DrTenma said:

didn't like the film but I enjoyed more the score. I really like the KOTCS bit during the plane-time-travel scene (mainly because that part of the score), and the new material stuck for me.

That was my favorite use of tracking/wholesale quotes. Arguably better than the original scene it accompanied (Indy climbing some boxes).  

[phbart 634]

Finally got to see it last night. So many recognizable themes from the trilogy throughout the film. I wonder how many people in the theater were able to spot those themes 

 

It's soooooooo satisfying to see this in the credits. 

 

 

[Leia Sees Ghosts 320]

The score sounded dope af in the movie! Gonna be angry for the rest of my life that 90% of the music in the prologue isn't officially released. Like the score for Toy Story 4 it's a little hard to pay attention to some scenes cause I can tell where all the callbacks are from, but they sound great! Helena's Theme sounds just as great in the movie as it does on the album. 

If there was any tracked in music, it didn't seem obvious like it did in Attack of the Clones, The Rise of Skywalker, or to bring up a non-Williams score, Age of Ultron.

Hope someone leaks the recording sessions sooner rather than later.

[karelm 3,099]

I enjoyed the film and love the soundtrack!  Saw the film yesterday and have already listened to the album twice.  Of course, I can't wait for all the music to get released, it's such a pleasant listening experience.   About half of it is missing since the album is 62 minutes (not including Anne-Sophie Mutter's suite for violin and orchestra) and James Mangold said it had two hours of music.  I think it fits very nicely with Williams' 2010 SW sequel style but also so many 1980's Indy references.  It's a very good score!  I especially loved Battle of Syracuse.  Something I dreamed of hearing of JW all my life...a historical epic and kind of got it.  But I think the film version is way longer than what's on the album.

 

Question: I haven't seen any of young Indy tv show.  How does that show portray the young Indy?  Was he pretty much just a boy scout junior version of old Indy or more ambivalent, and rebellious?  I'm wondering if Helena is being set up to be the next Indy and her attitude issues are similar to Indy's younger persona?  

[Doo_liss 6,632]

35 minutes ago, karelm said:

 

Question: I haven't seen any of young Indy tv show.  How does that show portray the young Indy?  Was he pretty much just a boy scout junior version of old Indy or more ambivalent, and rebellious?  I'm wondering if Helena is being set up to be the next Indy and her attitude issues are similar to Indy's younger persona?  

Kind of both.

[Bellosh 3,940]

36 minutes ago, karelm said:

Question: I haven't seen any of young Indy tv show.  How does that show portray the young Indy?  Was he pretty much just a boy scout junior version of old Indy or more ambivalent, and rebellious?  I'm wondering if Helena is being set up to be the next Indy and her attitude issues are similar to Indy's younger persona?  

 

He's very naive and very open minded in the show.

 

Rebellious in certain situations when it calls for it, but nothing out of the ordinary.  Most of and the best episodes are WW1 stories, and being rebellious is almost needed at times (like running up on a machine gun and putting his men at risk, but obviously lucking out).  Stuff you'd expect from any main character, even if it wasn't Indiana Jones.

 

Actually the most rebellious thing he probably did was joining WW1 lol.   But it happened by accident, so again....rebellious??? i dunno.

 

He's a spy for the backhalf of WW1, he's supposed to have some tricks up his sleeve.  So I don't think it's a fair apples to apples comparison to the globe-trotting Indy we all know.  The show purposely lacked that.  There's Treasure of the Peacock Eye, which is the 'globetrotting after an artifact episode, but again, he's not really rebellious in that episode.

 

Also, isn't PWB doing a Tomb Raider show?  Will she even want to do an 'Indy' show?  I guess $$$$$$ amiright?

[Demodex 573]

On 22/06/2023 at 6:43 PM, Pieter Boelen said:

I relistened to TRoS the other day and it doesn't do anything for me.

Not one bit of it excites me.

Except the action version of the Emperor's Theme from the FYC and the Rey Training cue.

But on the whole it's just laaame.

 

KotCS wasn't too great either; not even in its complete form.

 

I agree with this 100% except I didn't know there was a KotCS complete score. 

 

As for TDoD, the only parts of the score I remember are Marion's theme and the beginning where it uses music from The Last Crusade. 

[TolkienSS 471]

On 01/07/2023 at 10:53 PM, King Mark said:

There's 13 minutes of blank space on the c.d. and they still managed to edit out the best part of cues

 

And there's absolutely  no excuse for the full End Credits not to be on  the OST

 

I have to say, sadly, this is one of the worst assembled JW sountracks of his career.

Like, why the hell put the end credits as a "prologue", and cut the actual prologue down to 4 minutes of rerecorded temp?

[TheUlyssesian 2,589]

1 hour ago, TolkienSS said:

 

I have to say, sadly, this is one of the worst assembled JW sountracks of his career.

Like, why the hell put the end credits as a "prologue", and cut the actual prologue down to 4 minutes of rerecorded temp?

 

The prologue as scored in the film is a mess. It introduces 6 new themes among a mish mash of tracked and re-recorded temp. The listeners would be lost. It might have played poorly as an opener.

 

So maybe he approximated the prologue music with his credits concert piece first to give the listeners a taste of the same themes but in a cleaner presentation. 

[Damien F 1,774]

I think Prologue is actually referring to being a prologue to the album itself rather than the film's 1944 prologue. The track contains Helena's theme who doesn't even appear in the 1944 prologue.

 

If the home media release does contain an isolated score, I think music in the 1944 prologue will sound very edited and disjointed.

[crumbs 14,904]

29 minutes ago, Damien F said:

If the home media release does contain an isolated score, I think music in the 1944 prologue will sound very edited and disjointed.

 

Yup, I suspect it won't be a nice listening experience. A few of the things I thought were microedits in the OST track are actually identical to the film.

[Datameister 2,303]

Saw the film yesterday.

 

I'm one of those weirdos who avoided anything score-related prior to seeing the film. I knew Helena had a theme but I hadn't listened to it. I steered clear of all discussions about the film and score. So I was going in with very few preconceived notions.

 

Maybe it would have been better if I hadn't done that. Because it didn't take long for me to realize this was another COS, and it hurt my enjoyment of the film. One direct quote after another, strung together (very competently) by Williams and/or Ross.

 

If I hadn't heard any of the previous scores, I probably would be hailing this one as a triumph. It's all great stuff! But as things are, I was distracted and disappointed by each lifted passage. I hoped that they'd stop after the prologue, but they merely became a little less frequent.

 

I know how this is gonna go. As the years pass, I'll get used to these new configurations of the old writing, and I'll come to enjoy this score well enough as its own thing. That's what happened with COS. But in the meantime … damn, what a letdown.

 

(Disclaimer: I fully realize that JW is in his 90s. I don't know how he continues to do as much as he does. Not holding anything against him, or anyone else.)

[oierem 185]

33 minutes ago, Datameister said:

Saw the film yesterday.

 

I'm one of those weirdos who avoided anything score-related prior to seeing the film. I knew Helena had a theme but I hadn't listened to it. I steered clear of all discussions about the film and score. So I was going in with very few preconceived notions.

 

Maybe it would have been better if I hadn't done that. Because it didn't take long for me to realize this was another COS, and it hurt my enjoyment of the film. One direct quote after another, strung together (very competently) by Williams and/or Ross.

 

If I hadn't heard any of the previous scores, I probably would be hailing this one as a triumph. It's all great stuff! But as things are, I was distracted and disappointed by each lifted passage. I hoped that they'd stop after the prologue, but they merely became a little less frequent.

 

I know how this is gonna go. As the years pass, I'll get used to these new configurations of the old writing, and I'll come to enjoy this score well enough as its own thing. That's what happened with COS. But in the meantime … damn, what a letdown.

 

(Disclaimer: I fully realize that JW is in his 90s. I don't know how he continues to do as much as he does. Not holding anything against him, or anyone else.)

 

I had the same impression with the prologue. I went to see the film without having listened to the soundtrack, and I couldn't concentrate on the prologue because of that. 

It happens (althogh less heavily) with pretty much most of the action pieces - it's clear Williams wanted to base his writing on previous material to make it easier. 

 

However, I've listened to the album a couple of times now, and it's growing on me. The orchestration is awesome, and there are lots of new themes and motifs (although most of them rather brief and discrete).

[Falstaft 2,175]

11 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

The prologue as scored in the film is a mess. It introduces 6 new themes among a mish mash of tracked and re-recorded temp. The listeners would be lost. It might have played poorly as an opener.

 

 

Arguably, it introduces 8 new recurring motives and/or themes!  (Timestamps are approximations)

 

1. Nazi Anthem [0:00:35] (what @TheUlyssesian calls "Might")

2. Voller's Motif [0:05:30]

3. Nazi Secretive Motif [0:06:10] ("Supremacy")

4. & 5. Antikythera (textural theme & piano figure): 0:11:45

6. Antikythera (melody): 0:12:05 ("Antiquity")

7. Helena: 0:14:40

8. Nazi Melody [0:17:05] ("Spirit")

 

Maybe 9 if there's an instance of "Determination" in there too (which I still hear as a different angle on the "Spirit" theme).

[Tydirium 1,402]

8 minutes ago, Falstaft said:

 

 

Arguably, it introduces 8 new recurring motives and/or themes!  (Timestamps are approximations)

 

1. Nazi Anthem [0:00:35] (what @TheUlyssesian calls "Might")

2. Voller's Motif [0:05:30]

3. Nazi Secretive Motif [0:06:10] ("Supremacy")

4. & 5. Antikythera (textural theme & piano figure): 0:11:45

6. Antikythera (melody): 0:12:05 ("Antiquity")

7. Helena: 0:14:40

8. Nazi Melody [0:17:05] ("Spirit")

 

Maybe 9 if there's an instance of "Determination" in there too (which I still hear as a different angle on the "Spirit" theme).

 

Agree with you about “Determination” being somewhat related to “Spirit.” The climbing trumpet arpeggio figure at 3:20 in “Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny” and 3:30 in “Germany, 1944” is reminiscent of the arpeggios of “Determination.”

[igger6 953]

I saw the film last night after several listens through the soundtrack, and I'm glad I did some soundtrack study before seeing it.  The discussion here helped crystallize several themes for me before going in, although I'd like to believe I would have picked out the Archimedes theme myself either way. 

 

The vast majority of the quotes went over my head in the moment, but I did notice two uses of "Ants!" from KOTCS—once when the Allied bomb falls through the roof in the prologue and once, weirdly, on the climactic plane—I believe while they're still in 1969.  They both struck me as wildly out of place, considering how crafted that passage seems to be to evoke the specific threat of swarming insects.

 

I'm glad this movie exists solely because it gave us the new portions of this score, and every bit is gold at this point, but the film was as disappointing as I expected it to be, with the exception of the final twenty minutes or so.  The last scene was an actual tearjerker for me—some of the only genuinely surprising and affecting writing in the whole film.  I agree with the post above and several reviews stating that Mangold's direction is nondescript.  I love 3:10 to Yuma and Ford v. Ferrari, and Logan was well done, too, but Spielberg's absence is palpable here.

[crocodile 8,608]

6 hours ago, Datameister said:

Saw the film yesterday.

 

I'm one of those weirdos who avoided anything score-related prior to seeing the film. I knew Helena had a theme but I hadn't listened to it. I steered clear of all discussions about the film and score. So I was going in with very few preconceived notions.

 

Maybe it would have been better if I hadn't done that. Because it didn't take long for me to realize this was another COS, and it hurt my enjoyment of the film. One direct quote after another, strung together (very competently) by Williams and/or Ross.

 

If I hadn't heard any of the previous scores, I probably would be hailing this one as a triumph. It's all great stuff! But as things are, I was distracted and disappointed by each lifted passage. I hoped that they'd stop after the prologue, but they merely became a little less frequent.

 

I know how this is gonna go. As the years pass, I'll get used to these new configurations of the old writing, and I'll come to enjoy this score well enough as its own thing. That's what happened with COS. But in the meantime … damn, what a letdown.

 

(Disclaimer: I fully realize that JW is in his 90s. I don't know how he continues to do as much as he does. Not holding anything against him, or anyone else.)

I fully understand and respect that standpoint. But I also think it is entirely possible that they genuinely always planned to reuse the various segments in the prologue. Williams seems to be doing that a lot in his late career (since 2005 at least). It might that he was creating his final Indy score while looking back at his larger body of work created for the series. Also, at least for some time, this was supposed to be his final film work, period. It's not necessarily an approach I love but also makes some sense. Perhaps, Williams was inspired by Powell's Reminiscence Therapy? It was the first thing they shot so there is no other sensible explanation that would make sense to me.

 

Speaking of references, I find it interesting that this score sounds more like Tintin than it does like Crystal Skull. I am not complaining, the neo-Golden Age sheen seemed more authentic in that one anyway, as opposed to more clinical and mechanical post-prequel style of Indy 4. Not that there was anything wrong with it per se, that also made sense given slightly different s-f genre elements in that one.

 

Karol

[Joni Wiljami 1,212]

6 hours ago, Datameister said:

Saw the film yesterday.

 

I'm one of those weirdos who avoided anything score-related prior to seeing the film. I knew Helena had a theme but I hadn't listened to it. I steered clear of all discussions about the film and score. So I was going in with very few preconceived notions.

 

Maybe it would have been better if I hadn't done that. Because it didn't take long for me to realize this was another COS, and it hurt my enjoyment of the film. One direct quote after another, strung together (very competently) by Williams and/or Ross.

 

If I hadn't heard any of the previous scores, I probably would be hailing this one as a triumph. It's all great stuff! But as things are, I was distracted and disappointed by each lifted passage. I hoped that they'd stop after the prologue, but they merely became a little less frequent.

 

I know how this is gonna go. As the years pass, I'll get used to these new configurations of the old writing, and I'll come to enjoy this score well enough as its own thing. That's what happened with COS. But in the meantime … damn, what a letdown.

 

(Disclaimer: I fully realize that JW is in his 90s. I don't know how he continues to do as much as he does. Not holding anything against him, or anyone else.)

 

Even if you didn't listened to it before I'm sure you knew Ross' involvement beforehand and I do not buy that you heard it. Besserwisser stuff. 

[Datameister 2,303]

4 minutes ago, Joni Wiljami said:

 

Even if you didn't listened to it before I'm sure you knew Ross' involvement beforehand and I do not buy that you heard it. Besserwisser stuff. 

 

I assumed Bill would be involved, even before I saw the film. He was involved with all three SW sequel scores, Galaxy's Edge, and Obi-Wan. But no, I don't remember hearing anything about whether he was involved in DoD beforehand.

 

I also see nothing wrong with JW trusting a talented and experienced collaborator to help him execute his musical vision. I was just disappointed that reused material supplanted so much of the new material I was hoping for.

[Joni Wiljami 1,212]

4 minutes ago, Datameister said:

 

I assumed Bill would be involved, even before I saw the film. He was involved with all three SW sequel scores, Galaxy's Edge, and Obi-Wan. But no, I don't remember hearing anything about whether he was involved in DoD beforehand.

 

I also see nothing wrong with JW trusting a talented and experienced collaborator to help him execute his musical vision. I was just disappointed that reused material supplanted so much of the new material I was hoping for.

 

Ok. I totally disagree.

I enjoyed the reused material, it was fun to notice those in theatre and the soundtrack still had its own voice.

[Datameister 2,303]

4 minutes ago, Joni Wiljami said:

 

Ok. I totally disagree.

 

Fair enough!

[Joni Wiljami 1,212]

Sorry, I edited my post

[Gustavo Joseph 38]

I'm just so curious to listen to the NY piano-heavy chase music, sounded really interesting in the movie.

[Quppa 153]

I love Helena's Theme, but am I the only one who thinks it doesn't really match its namesake? In the concert suite it conveys a sense of longing and romance, but the character in the film evokes neither of those things (just as well, given her relationship to Indy). Of course the theme is extremely versatile and works well integrated into action cues.

 

Marion's Theme is similar in not really reflecting the strong and tough nature of the character as presented in Raiders of the Lost Ark, but Dan Golding in the Art of the Score podcast (starts at ~30:00) posits a compelling theory that it works if one considers it to represent 'Indiana thinking of Marion'. I don't know if I can think of an explanation like that for Helena's Theme.

 

(The hosts of UnderScore made similar comments about Marion's theme in this episode (~12:30).)