Superman Soundtrack

[Saxman717 21]

Hey all!

I've been hearing a lot of good things about the Superman music from time to time......on this messageboard, on such websites as filmtracks.com etc. I like the Superman march.....it is good, but I still like all the Star Wars music better--The Empire Strikes Back remains my favorite soundtrack ever composed.

I'm wondering.....is Superman really that good overall as far as music goes? Should I explore this further? How does it compare with Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back?

I am quite curious.....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Hmmmm....for me comparing Superman with TESB is likle comparing apples with oranges, both taste good, but very different.

For the most part Superman is up to par with Williams music for the first SW trilogy.

But Superman offered Williams the chance to write a more varied score though.

It has a brilliant heroic theme, suberp romantic music, bouncy comedy cues, mysterious otherwordly themes and some wonderfull delicate yet epic music for the Americana-ish Smallville scenes.

It's first rate and well worth checking out.

Though it has to be said that Goldmith's main theme for Supergirl is superiour to Williams Superman theme.

Stefancos- who knows Marian agrees, but also know that most other members will be puking when reading the last comment.

[AC1 3,565]

Though it has to be said that Goldmith's main theme for Supergirl is superiour to Williams Superman theme.

I don't remember that one. How did that go again?

Movie not so good though!

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Alex Cremers

[Guest]

Just seems like Goldsmith came up with something similar to Williams, but not the same theme.

[Lurker 5]

Superman- The Movie is a superb score. You should definitely spend the time to get to know it better. I would recommend buying the 2 disc set from Rhino that was released 3 years ago. You won't regret it.

Neil

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

As a Williams fan, you should definitely get the set Neil mentioned. That said, I find that the score as a whole isn't as enjoyable as the individual themes and concert pieces. IMHO, of course.

Ray Barnsbury

[UCFKevin 0]

It's tied for my favorite score of all time. It's incredible, so brilliantly done. Williams really outdid himself with this one. Excellent themes all around, the Superman theme is unbelievably perfect, it's just...I can't really say enough about this score.

[Marian Schedenig 5,520]

has to be said that Goldmith's main theme for Supergirl is superiour to Williams Superman theme.

Stefancos- who knows Marian agrees

He does.

Marian - still desparate that the recording of the best performance of it simply stops after 30 seconds. :cry:

[Adam 1]

The main theme from Superman is so quintessentially Superman that its hard for me to imagine how JW could have improved on that. There's even the last phrase of the fanfare portion where the orchestra says "Superman!" without actually saying it, if people know what I mean. I think Donner made a similar comment when he first heard the theme.

I prefer the contrast and atmosphere of the first half of the score, as a listen. But its an amazing score all around.

- Adam

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

I have the Rhino release, and the first CD is my favourite. But after track 9, when Kent arrives in Metropolis, I find things get a little... I wouldn't say dull, or monotonous... It's just... It's loud. Perhaps its due to subject matter, but the music is sometimes just a bit over-the-top, and to me doesn't stand up to TESB, but then again, what does?

Don't take this the wrong way; Superman is a great score, and IMHO, all scores bleaken in comparison to the allmighty TESB. It's worth getting, just to close the hole in your collection.

- Marc, The Empire Strikes Back

[Morlock 9]

I strongly reccomend the Debney recording, in addition to the Rhino one. I got Debney by mistake, and was really pissed off, but then listened to it- and it every bit as good as the Williams one, but just different. And it's rare to find two perfect versions of the same piece, much less the same 2 CD album.

[Marian Schedenig 5,520]

I have the Rhino release, and the first CD is my favourite. But after track 9, when Kent arrives in Metropolis, I find things get a little... I wouldn't say dull, or monotonous... It's just... It's loud. Perhaps its due to subject matter, but the music is sometimes just a bit over-the-top

I totally agree here. I hardly ever play the second CD....I don't even play the first one too often because of that, since I usually like to listen to a score as a whole or not at all. Superman has some of Williams' all-time best cues, like the Krypton fanfare and Fortress of Solitude, and the Cowboys-like Americana music that's "new" on CD 1 of the Rhino set is lovely. But as a whole score, I just don't find it that great.

Marian - who doesn't find Supergirl as a whole score that great either.

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

Finally. I was almost fearing I was one of the few who didn't really like Superman. And I too like to listen to scores as a whole. When I walk out of my room, I often leave the CD Player on, or put it on pause in the middle of a track, so I can pick it up where I left off.

- Marc, who thinks the Main Title March is awesome though, and the Krypton and Smallville cues are great.

[stewdog1 50]

Marc and Marian,

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who does not really enjoy the later of the soundtrack. Namely when he arrives in Metropolis. It could be because the nature of the scoring changes so abruptly that it sounds like the two parts of the movie clash more than anything.

Don't take me wrong, however, some of my favorite themes come from Superman. Just all of them reside in the first half of the movie. Especially the Smallville and Fortress of Solitude.

[JoeinAR 1,759]

How bizarre, I listen to the second half, more than the first half. I love all the Metropolis stuff, the music where he falls and changes, the Chasing the Rockets, March of the Villians, the flight over Metropolis, etc, etc.

I love the endtitles even better than the main title, except for the prologue, which I wanted all those years.

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

Well, to each his own. I think I'll listen to CD 2 a bit tonight. I usually start at CD 1, but strand halfway through because I go do something else and can't listen to music with it. I've also only seen the film once, and it didn't really make a strong impression. It has aged too much, I think.

- Marc, leaving for Crete tomorrow.

Daryl Arrives from The Witches Of Eastwick

[Lurker 5]

It has aged too much, I think.

Why do people always say this about Superman - The Movie. Do people say that about the original 1933 King Kong, where biplanes are used to shoot down a stop motion Kong? Superman very clearly takes place in 1978. What if it was made today but still took place in 1978, would it be "dated". What exactly is the definition of this anyway or is this just a convenient way of getting out of enjoying this film?

Is it that the effects were done using an old method? If so, does that mean that all pre-CG films are "dated" and thus should be written off so casually with a single word? I'm really confused with this. I've seen Superman - The Movie on the big screen 5 times in the last 2 years and it has held up remarkably well. It was beautiful to look at, the effects work was amazing and the film was a delight from start to end. I can't say that for too many movies made today.

Neil

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

I was talking about the effects. Some things I think were way ahead of their time at that point, and must have been awesome to watch back in the day. And because you remember the emotion the effect gave you, you're still willing to believe it today. This comes from story: making the audience willing to believe what they are seeing is real, and get caught up in it. I don't mind that it takes place in 1978, but I wasn't around to see the film back then, and even though this is where (along with Star Wars I assume, again I wasn't there) a lot of modern VFX technologies were pushed, they are so advanced nowadays, that they have become "simple" effects, and when I first saw the film 6 months ago, I couldn't really get into it. The most FXmovies I got to see when they were new were post-Jurassic Park, so I've grown used to flashy effects, not the dingy stuff from Superman.

As for your comments on King Kong, I have never seen the film, or any remake, so I don't know about that.

But again, to each his own.

- Marc,

[MSM 85]

Though it has to be said that Goldmith's main theme for Supergirl is superiour to Williams Superman theme.

Stefancos- who knows Marian agrees, but also know that most other members will be puking when reading the last comment.

Supergirl surprised me because it seemed to me the only example of imitation (of the Superman theme of course) which is a bit original. But better than Superman, no way.

[AC1 3,565]

Can someone hum the Supergirl tune for me , please!

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Alex Cremers

[Marian Schedenig 5,520]

The cool thing about the Supergirl theme is that it has a great (and hummable ) counterpoint. And I love that tambourine.

Marian - who thinks it has more drive than the Superman theme.

[AC1 3,565]

I confess I liked the theme from Lois and Clark.

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Alex Cremers

[JoeinAR 1,759]

seriously the music to Superman seems to be more of an American thing, its heard at every ballpark, every basketball arena, and every football stadium both college and pro. Bands play the march up and down the field every fall. its part of the culture. Its not part of the European culture.

I'd dare say in US sports arena's its the most played of all JW's themes(Imperial March or Jaws would be second).

As far as flashy effects that Mr. Breathmask has seen, does any of the flying effects that are in the Matrix Reloaded(I use it because Spiderman looks totally fake) look anymore real than whats in Superman. If you said yes, you wouldn't be telling the truth. The flying effects in Superman and Matrix Reloaded both involve the standard blue screen or green screen effects, with actors on cables, even 25 years later the effect technique is the same. Oh sure there is one difference, CGI is used to remove the cables now.

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

As far as flashy effects that  Mr. Breathmask has seen, does any of the flying effects that are in the Matrix Reloaded(I use it because Spiderman looks totally fake) look anymore real than whats in Superman.  If you said yes, you wouldn't be telling the truth.  The flying effects in Superman and Matrix Reloaded both involve the standard blue screen or green screen effects, with actors on cables, even 25 years later the effect technique is the same.  Oh sure there is one difference, CGI is used to remove the cables now.

No. They don't. But the effects in Superman were very on the limit. They were refined, and I think they advanced with every film. I'm kinda used to seeing flying look natural, both in the way the actors move and the way the background blends in. In Superman they were still experimenting.

I also thought the model of the breaking dam looked bad. I think I've seen better models breaking up on Thunderbirds than that one.

Perhaps it's part of the "generation-difference" or whatever you want to blame it on. Superman's effects might have been awesome 25 years ago, today, they look dingy, and amateuristic to me. But as I said, they were doing stuff nobody'd ever done before. It's just that I've become used to seeing the technique refined and executed by people who are trusted and comfortable with it.

Perhaps it's a bit hard to explain. Or perhaps it's a bit hard for me to explain. Whatever. Shutting up now.

- Marc,

[MSM 85]

seriously the music to Superman seems to be more of an American thing, its heard at every ballpark, every basketball arena, and every football stadium both college and pro.  Bands play the march up and down the field every fall.  its part of the culture.  Its not part of the European culture.

I'm glad it's not. Don't understand me wrong, it's my favorite JW march but I think it would be awful to hear your favorite music wherever you go, where are people who don't even know who it wrote. (Personal thought.)

[JoeinAR 1,759]

Mr. Breathmask, I am not talking about the dam sequence, on that we agree, it was poorly done, but the flying effects are as convincing today as they were 25 years ago, flying effects haven't advanced on bit in that time period. And when you see Chris Reeve flying he is flying, not some CGI rendition like Spiderman was swinging. It was Chris Reeve, not some binary sequence in a computer.

[King Mark 2,924]

but the flying effects are as convincing today as they were 25 years ago, flying effects haven't advanced on bit in that time period.

.

i disagree,after the first Superman there were movies with more complex and less static flying sequences,like in Supergirl and Hook,because the wiring made it possible to do more natural moves and the motion cameras were more sophisticated.

just like the movements of the spaceship models are more fluid and elaborate in Return of the Jedi compared to Star Wars.

K.M.

[Lurker 5]

today, they look dingy, and amateuristic to me.

That's a really poor choice of words. Superman - The Movie utilized some of the top technicians and artists at the time. The word "amateur" implies otherwise. As for looking dingy, I don't know what you were looking at. Superman is generally considered to be a gorgeously shot film.

Regarding parts of the dam sequence: the film was very much behind schedule and Derek Meddings, the genius miniature effects technician, had to leave the production to begin work on Moonraker. The dam sequence was not completed by Meddings. Donner was even unhappy with the final shot in 1978, but what can you do?

Neil

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

today, they look dingy, and amateuristic to me.

That's a really poor choice of words

You have a point. But also note that I said they looked that TO ME. I'm sure you think otherwise. I just think they can't hold up to modernday effects.

Now enough about that (I'm fighting a lost battle here anyway). To get back on topic, Superman is a good score, and worth acquiring, even just to have one of those classic JW scores.

- Marc

[Morlock 9]

I just think that Superman is a very goofy movie, which is along the lines of what JW thought, especialy with the villains. Gene Hackman did not seem the least bit imposing during the movie, and the scene at the end at the prison is just another stupid joke. Also Beatty mixing up the numbers for the missile, is right out of the comic book- and you can'y literally adapt a comic into film, which is why there are very few good comic book adaptations.

Plus Margot Kidder is not a good actress, and is not at all attractive enough to be Lois.

Plus the actor who plays Clark in Smallville is a terrible actor, who needs to look at a mirror while he's acting to see how stupid his "deep" moments look.

I loved how on the DVD, everyone said stuff like 'classic' and 'great', but Williams said stuff about a comic or jokey element. He had it right then. It's like on The Omen DVD, where everyone spoke about it as if it was the 'Gone with the wind' of supernatural film.

[Marian Schedenig 5,520]

I'd probably play the CD more often if it hadn't such bad sound quality. Rhino 2CD or no, they should do a remastered release now that they've found better tapes. The Rhino sounds shrill, with no depth, and ugly droning bass. Perhaps I should finally get the Debney rec...

Marian - who has never seen the movie.

Superman

[JoeinAR 1,759]

I have said this before and will say it again, Superman the Movie is one of the most beautifully photographed films ever. I cannot think of any film made since where the photography is so stunning, and the colors so vibrant. Geoffrey Unsworth

[Morlock 9]

Unsworth is of course a genious as he also showed on The Great Train robbery, Murder on the Orient Express, and several as is John Barry who did phenominal job on Superman, Star Wars and The Clockwork Orange. Also Stuart Baird's editing is very good. They are the best (add Williams of course) at what they do (did).

I just didn't like the whole approach to the story, and I think the movie was miscast and not acted very well.

[AC1 3,565]

Gene Hackman did not seem the least bit imposing during the movie

Do you always want the same cliché, dressed in black, mean and imposing looking evil guys you have seen in almost all other movies? Did the film failed in the eyes of the audience or the critics because the enemy failed as a character? Would you believe me if I told you that not all evil is scary or impressive in appearance?

Yes, the Luthor gang had a light comical undertone but in the end Lex always wants something and that wanting is eventually going to cost many innocent people's lives and he's dangerous because he is smart enough or always has some kind of resource to pull it off.

Hackman portrayed Luthor in a very unique and interesting way. I'm happy he wasn't the typical slick bad*** MF evil dude we've seen too many times in the past decades. He had a voice of his own and I will remember him for it.

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Alex Cremers

[UCFKevin 0]

Boy, call me crazy but I think the effects in Superman STILL look amazing even by today's standards. You know why? REALISM. CGI has such a fakeness to it.

[AC1 3,565]

Hmmmm....for me comparing Superman with TESB is likle comparing apples with oranges, both taste good, but very different.

For the most part Superman is up to par with Williams music for the first SW trilogy.

But Superman offered Williams the chance to write a more varied score though.

It has a brilliant heroic theme, suberp romantic music, bouncy comedy cues, mysterious otherwordly themes and some wonderfull delicate yet epic music for the Americana-ish Smallville scenes.

It's first rate and well worth checking out.

 

I'm listening to the Rhino 2 CD set now and it must be said what Stefancos wrote is as close to the truth as you can get. I'm not always agreeing with him but this time there's no way around it.

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Alex Cremers

[King Mark 2,924]

didn't I read this thread a month ago?

K.M.

[stewdog1 50]

Yes, but when there is a lack of new work coming out by JW...

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Boy, call me crazy but I think the effects in Superman STILL look amazing even by today's standards. You know why? REALISM. CGI has such a fakeness to it.

Everybody knows what I think of Superman: The Movie, and most of my points have already been made in this thread too. But there is no denying that the FX still look good now. They are not the reason the movie is dated. And you know why? Because the movie isn't overkill SFX like nowadays. When SFX are used, they so intrinsic to the plot, you just want to believe they are real. And so they are. Because there would be no movie without the effects, so you take it like one more asset, like dialogues and camera moves.

No matter what my opinion on the rest of the movie is, I have to admit I believed that man could fly.

As for the Rhino Set, I own it and it's the one I listen to. I have already stated I have a newly found appreciation for this score, but the original single-CD WB release was, in my opinion, easier to click with.

[ABez 0]

Supergirl's tambourine does nothing for me, I'm sorry. That said, there's an admirable lack of vanity about Goldsmith's (?) decision to have the Supergirl march 'reflect' Williams' Superman effort. A great 'nod'.

Similarly, Mark Snow's employment of Williams' stuff in 'Smallville': none of this 'need for a fresh direction' rubbish. I also really like Snow's music that play over the end credits of 'Smallville'. I don't know if it is heard when the show airs in the States but it does here in the UK and is a terrific but unfortunately short piece. Anyone else rate it?

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

I need to get the Debney CD.

Anyone remeber Salkind´s Superboy?

[King Mark 2,924]

That said, there's an admirable lack of vanity about Goldsmith's (?) decision to have the Supergirl march 'reflect' Williams' Superman effort. A great 'nod'.  

i think it sounds more like a feminine version of the Star Trek March.

K.M.

[Chris ChrusherComix 27]

Hackman's Luthor seems MUCH more dangerous and evil if you watch the deleted scenes on the DVD! Oh, those are deliciously evil!

And as usual, I love deleted scenes and often wonder why many of them aren't left in the film! I seem to hate most "new? scenes, but always love old ones.

-Chris, Who recently read in a Batman comic that in the CD universe, Luthor was elected President of the USA? LOL

[Chris ChrusherComix 27]

Supergirl theme?

Goldsmith?

BAH!

-Chris, Who mildly likes ST:TMP and maybe a handful of themes (Gremlins perhaps?) but nothing much else from him...