The Dial of Destiny Appreciation Thread

[Nick1Ø66 6,399]

5 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Nope, I'm from a much better and livelier land!

 

 

I'm not from Rio though. I hate that place and I prefer living anywhere else than there.

 

Pretty and lively indeed. And Brazilian women are among the most beautiful in the world. I can see why you run through women the way you do, dashing rogue that you are.

 

That said, Portugal has Pastéis de Nata, so it's a tough choice...;)

[Sweeping Strings 2,747]

Eminently watchable fun - Indy still whip-and-wisecracked, punched Nazis, and rode a horse through a parade and then the subway. Toby Jones is always good, Waller-Bridge's character was less irritating than she could have been and the mid-point tuk-tuk chase is up there with any of the franchise's other action sequences IMO. No issue with the time-travel either, as there's always been a fairly bonkers fantasy element to these movies.  

[Jurassic Shark 14,180]

Well summarised! Yes, the time travel did work, and it was such a joy to see Indy punching Nazis again! And that prologue is just so dense with pure entertainment. 

[Jurassic Shark 14,180]

14 minutes ago, Slipperman9 said:

Just before Christmas, I got the DOD DVD from my local library. I need to return it, when the library re-opens, next Wednesday. I haven't seen it yet. After reading this thread, I'm not sure I want to 

 

Well, to quote a local philosopher:

 

12 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Eminently watchable fun - Indy still whip-and-wisecracked, punched Nazis, and rode a horse through a parade and then the subway. Toby Jones is always good, Waller-Bridge's character was less irritating than she could have been and the mid-point tuk-tuk chase is up there with any of the franchise's other action sequences IMO. No issue with the time-travel either, as there's always been a fairly bonkers fantasy element to these movies.  

 

[Haasch 9]

I honestly don't know why it's getting such a bad rap, except from people who foam at the mouth when Phoebe Waller-Bridge does so much as a crossword. 

The film wasn't perfect, but it's a solid B+. 

[Mr. Hooper 4,195]

 

2 hours ago, Haasch said:

I honestly don't know why it's getting such a bad rap, except from people who foam at the mouth when Phoebe Waller-Bridge does so much as a crossword.

Well, to punch a hole in your theory, I didn't know who Phoebe Waller-Bridge was before this movie and have nothing personally against her, yet still somehow managed to dislike it.

[A. A. Ron 2,160]

1 hour ago, Haasch said:

I honestly don't know why it's getting such a bad rap, except from people who foam at the mouth when Phoebe Waller-Bridge does so much as a crossword. 

The film wasn't perfect, but it's a solid B+. 

 

It's a C and it has almost nothing to do with ol' Phoebs. In fact, I'd say most of the movie is pretty well cast. The plot just isn't very good. Thank God we at least got Johnny baby to score it!

[Muad'Dib 1,895]

The part I liked the most was the whole Syracuse bit. For starters, I laughed my ass off when Indy discovers Voller's calculations were off. Secondly, Indy travelling back in time feels right and fresh for the series.

 

I do feel, as many have pointed out, that Indy should have taken the decision to return home on his own, instead of getting knocked out.

 

Also, I feel the movie should have been 80% about Indy in past Syracuse trying to return home. 

 

[Nick1Ø66 6,399]

20 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

No issue with the time-travel either, as there's always been a fairly bonkers fantasy element to these movies.  

 

In the first three films, the "fantasy" elements were at least grounded in religion, superstition & the occult. That may seem a distinction without a difference, but IMO it's not, given the overall theme of the series and the subtext of "belief" running throughout.

 

KOTCS & DoD, however, definitely veer into the world of pure fantasy and science fiction with aliens, spaceships and time travel. While I appreciate at least that they try to make the time-travel occur via a natural phenomenon, I just don't think it's something that belongs in these films.

 

 

[Sweeping Strings 2,747]

10 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Well, to quote a local philosopher:

 

 

You flatter me, Sir. Most kind. 

[Jurassic Shark 14,180]

8 hours ago, Haasch said:

I honestly don't know why it's getting such a bad rap, except from people who foam at the mouth when Phoebe Waller-Bridge does so much as a crossword. 

The film wasn't perfect, but it's a solid B+. 

 

It's the diehard fans who can't deal with change, I guess.

[Richard P 4,503]

My brother has seen it and thought it was better than KotCS, but nothing to write home about. I suspect 99% of viewers will have some sort of opinion along those lines but ultimately will watch it, enjoy to some extent and move on with their lives.

 

Personal pre-viewing opinion: it's probably fun and a bit silly. I don't believe for a moment that it's as bad as some outside this apprecation thread are making it to be.

 

I'm thinking of taking out a Disney+ for a month to watch a few things such as this and Avatar 2. I ultimately decided not to buy the Blu-ray when the iso score didn't seem to offer anything very revelatory for me.

[Jurassic Shark 14,180]

10 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

My brother has seen it and thought it was better than KotCS, but nothing to write home about.

 

Yet he wrote to you about it.

[Richard P 4,503]

Nope, we were discussing various things over coffee, I casually asked if he'd seen it and he told me what he thought.

[Naïve Old Fart 11,016]

10 hours ago, Haasch said:

 

The film wasn't perfect, but it's a solid B+. 

As I said, I have yet to see it, but... isn't that the issue? It's Indiana Jones. A "solid B+" simply isn't good enough.

[Jurassic Shark 14,180]

56 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Yet he wrote to you about it.

 

54 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Nope, we were discussing various things over coffee, I casually asked if he'd seen it and he told me what he thought.

 

It was a joke.

 

34 minutes ago, Slipperman9 said:

As I said, I have yet to see it, but... isn't that the issue? It's Indiana Jones. A "solid B+" simply isn't good enough.

 

Great would of course have been preferable.

[Yavar Moradi 3,294]

I'd happily take a solid B+ or even a C over Crystal Skull, as an ending to the series. I do think they should have quit at Last Crusade* which was a perfect ending...only then we wouldn't have two superb additional Williams scores.

 

*on the other hand if Lucas hadn't nixed the Frank Darabont script which would have brought back Sean Connery, maybe that could have been great?

 

For me, the opening act of Dial of Destiny was a solid B+, and then the far-too-long middle section was a C (not counting the excellent but hardly used Antonio Banderas, whose bit wasn't nearly long enough and seemed to have some obvious unfortunate cuts in it).

 

And then the surprising third act for me was an A! I agree with pretty much all of this:

 

11 hours ago, Muad'Dib said:

The part I liked the most was the whole Syracuse bit. For starters, I laughed my ass off when Indy discovers Voller's calculations were off. Secondly, Indy travelling back in time feels right and fresh for the series.

 

I do feel, as many have pointed out, that Indy should have taken the decision to return home on his own, instead of getting knocked out.

 

Also, I feel the movie should have been 80% about Indy in past Syracuse trying to return home. 

 

Maybe that 80% is a little too high but the proportions being more towards that would have been far better. The script needed another pass and the film needed another edit to really gel into something great. But yeah I wish the opening WWII sequence had been more like 10-15 minutes (maybe with fewer Indy shots to de-age, it would have stood out less?), the current middle section of the film had been something like half an hour to 45 minutes tops, and then I wish we'd had over an hour of awesome Indy in Syracuse. Actually have some plot there? Have him be torn about staying or returning for, I dunno, a few days at least? Build up audience suspense, let him have a conversation or two about it maybe? Clearly show how happy and in his element he is being in the past he's spent his lifetime studying. But let him come to his own conclusion about returning home.

 

Helena punching his lights out and him being unconscious for days(???) and waking up in his apartment later was really lazy and shitty screenwriting, and I gather it was rushed. It was the only time in the movie I kinda understood all the hate for Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character, because by taking away his agency/decision making, she made the character of Indiana Jones appear so very weak, at the end of his own franchise! Such a bad idea and the only (very) sour note in the otherwise-charming coda of the film.

 

Yavar

[Mr. Hooper 4,195]

Yeah, more Indy in Syracuse was my thought leaving the theatre too. There's so much tiresome chasing after the MacGuffin, then something interesting finally happens, and we're quickly brought back to 1969 with a punch to the face.

[Yavar Moradi 3,294]

Exactly. Major missed opportunity, but what we got was still wonderful...just far too short. For me what Dial of Destiny proved was that a really great final/fifth Indiana Jones film COULD have been made. And instead we got one that was just...solid. And thankfully preferable to Crystal Skull, for me.

 

That middle section went on faaar too long with endless unnecessary action sequences (I'm lookin' at you, Tuk-Tuk Chase) yet inexplicably truncated Antonio Banderas section.

 

Yavar

[Jurassic Shark 14,180]

57 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Clearly show how happy and in his element he is being in the past he's spent his lifetime studying. 

 

That's already being shown quite clearly. 

 

[Bellosh 4,034]

59 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Helena punching his lights out and him being unconscious for days(???) and waking up in his apartment later was really lazy and shitty screenwriting, and I gather it was rushed. It was the only time in the movie I kinda understood all the hate for Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character, because by taking away his agency/decision making, she made the character of Indiana Jones appear so very weak, at the end of his own franchise! Such a bad idea and the only (very) sour note in the otherwise-charming coda of the film.

 

Yavar

 

Since Marion was essentially fan-serviced in (aka an off screen phone call fixed Indy's entire arc)....maybe a better story/movie could have been Indy and Helena slowly respecting each other and working with each other.

 

The movie does that horribly imo.  No need for Teddy, just make this a really good Indy and Helena story.  And at the end he can leave Syracuse on his own accord and he realizes he does have someone in his life who is basically family...and an adventuring sidekick. Best of both worlds.

 

I still think most people who were emotional with the ending of this film with Marion and Indy were not feeling the emotions of them getting back together, but the fact this would be the last time we'd see these characters on screen.

[Jurassic Shark 14,180]

1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Helena punching his lights out and him being unconscious for days(???)

 

She probably drugged him.

[Bellosh 4,034]

9 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

She probably drugged him.

 

I just assumed he was only out for a minute or two and woke up once they were like going through the portal.

 

And was just bedridden for a while

[Mr. Hooper 4,195]

35 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

inexplicably truncated Antonio Banderas section.

I think I've said this before, but he was really likeable, and it was simply gratuitous to have him killed like that. Was it just to have the "character-building" moment of Indy telling Helena that she's being callous, and to show her reacting glumly?

 

38 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

maybe a better story/movie could have been Indy and Helena slowly respecting each other and working with each other.

This.

[Jurassic Shark 14,180]

47 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

maybe a better story/movie could have been Indy and Helena slowly respecting each other and working with each other.

 

Sounds like a lot of fun...

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Yeah, more Indy in Syracuse was my thought leaving the theatre too. There's so much tiresome chasing after the MacGuffin

 

I'm surprised the nurses let you out of the retirement home to see such a long movie. 

[Mr. Hooper 4,195]

8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Sounds like a lot of fun...

I'll take that over the bickering. If at least the dialogue was good and there were some amusing one-liners, but the repartee was weak.

 

8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I'm surprised the nurses let you out of the retirement home to see such a long movie. 

I seem to be confused now... I'm posting in the 'Dial of Destiny Appreciation Thread'...

 

Nurse! More morphine!

[Leia Sees Ghosts 325]

I've seen the movie 5 times already. Gets better with each watch imo.

[Yavar Moradi 3,294]

2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

That's already being shown quite clearly.

 

Too briefly and quickly, for me.  What we got was great, but I wanted much more of Indy in the past -- the culmination of his life's work, in many ways!

2 hours ago, Bellosh said:

maybe a better story/movie could have been Indy and Helena slowly respecting each other and working with each other.

 

Agreed, but an even *better* movie IMO would have been Short Round taking the Helena role.  (No offense to PWB; I'm a fan! But it's such a bummer this all happened *just* before a certain actor's career resurgence...)

 

Anyhow, I guess this is off topic! I really liked Dial of Destiny, especially because of the last act! I'm very glad Kingdom of the Crystal Skull didn't end up being Ford's last time playing the character, personally.

 

Yavar

[Andy 5,573]

6 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Agreed, but an even *better* movie IMO would have been Short Round taking the Helena role.  (No offense to PWB; I'm a fan! But it's such a bummer this all happened *just* before a certain actor's career resurgence...)

Yes. 100%.   Kung Fu was just becoming popular around this era.  Shorty could’ve kicked so much Nazi ass.  To me, this is the biggest missed opportunity.   So much so that they should’ve done reshoots and broken the film into two parts the moment Ke Huy Quan gave his Oscar acceptance speech. 

[Bespin Copilot 9,218]

7 hours ago, Courtney Sees Ghosts said:

I've seen the movie 5 times already. Gets better with each watch imo.

 

Well, for the sixth time, try watching it while you are sober! 

[Yavar Moradi 3,294]

3 hours ago, Andy said:

Yes. 100%.   Kung Fu was just becoming popular around this era.  Shorty could’ve kicked so much Nazi ass.  To me, this is the biggest missed opportunity.   So much so that they should’ve done reshoots and broken the film into two parts the moment Ke Huy Quan gave his Oscar acceptance speech. 

It’s not even that. Imagine if it were Short Round (who grew up on the streets, right?) in the Helena role: suddenly the relationship with Indy would have a lot more gravitas. We would understand why he was so mercenary. The film could grapple with Indy abdicating any responsibility to Short Round, after we saw what their relationship was like in ToD? That’s already canon because there’s no mention of him in any of the other films; they forgot about the character just like Indy apparently did. So it would really fit with what they tried to set up with the Helena flashback.

 

The whole movie, imagine the great banter between those two we could have had. Imagine the potential for character development and exploration of their relationship.

 

But most of all: imagine Short Round having that argument with Indy in Syracuse! Someone who had real history and established chemistry with him? Someone who already got through to him, “snapped him out of it” once before, so to speak? Yeah, I didn’t hate Helena aside from the punch… but even without the punch, Short Round would have fit the role they made for her soo much better.

 

And also Indy could have left him his hat at the end.

 

Yavar

[Alex 2,915]

Ken Huy Quan went back to acting too late. If he’d only gone back a few years earlier, we could have potentially had a very different DoD.

[Mr. Hooper 4,195]

From all of us over on the Indiana Jones Disenchantment Thread, to all of you...

 

[Nick1Ø66 6,399]

 

"Indiana Jones Disenchantment is the feel-good thread of the holiday season!" -  @RogerEbert.com

 

"If you visit only one JWFan thread this winter, make it the Indiana Jones Disenchantment Thread"  - @JTW 

 

"Steer clear of this sh*t show. You'll find more intelligent banter in the Toilet Visit thread"  - @Jurassic Shark

 

Read it…   If wasting your life away griping about being disenchanted by a failed film in a nihilistic thread on a dead forum is your cup of tea.

Avoid it...  If you’d rather spend what precious time you have left in this world singing the praises of the worst movie from a tired franchise in the so-called appreciation thread.

- @Filmtracks

[Davis 3,724]

Hey, I didn’t create the Indiana Jones Disenchantment Thread, I only work there. 

[Jurassic Shark 14,180]

13 minutes ago, JTW said:

Hey, I didn’t create the Indiana Jones Disenchantment Thread, I only work here. 

 

Work application declined - this is the appreciation thread.  

[Mr. Hooper 4,195]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

Hey, I didn’t create the Indiana Jones Disenchantment Thread, I only work here. 

And as our best worker — tirelessly stoking the fires of disenchantment and keeping our homes warm with clean-burning coals of discontent — I name you "Employee of the Month".

 

 

 

[Davis 3,724]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

Hey, I didn’t create the Indiana Jones Disenchantment Thread, I only work there. 

@Jurassic Shark😉😜

 

 

23 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

And as our best worker — tirelessly stoking the fires of disenchantment and keeping our homes warm with clean-burning coals of discontent — I name you "Employee of the Month".

Just telling the truth, “Boss”.

 

[Jurassic Shark 14,180]

I have to say the prologue as it is on the OST has really grown on me. At first, I kind of lost interest after the first two minutes, but now I'm into the entire track.

[Richard P 4,503]

The prologue was actually of the better signs for me when I first heard the album. At least, it told me that that this score probably didn't have the issue I have with Skull.

 

Or, to put it another way, I find Skull's better parts (Jungle Chase, warehouse chase, spaceship taking off) more engaging than most stuff in Dial, but Dial is a more consistent listen overall. Skull's entire dramatic midsection just sends me to sleep.