Stéphane Denève conducts John Williams in Berlin, June 5-7 2025

[Jay 42,358]

Sasappis!

[54dcwrcxwertx 17]

I have bought two 100€ tickets for one of the nights. Right after the news I wrote to tickets@ address and asked for refund. After some back and forth of me explaining clearly that what they do leaves a very bad taste for such a respected institution, today they decided to refund me my two tickets. I did have to threaten to just use the chargeback, but turns out it won't be necessary. 

 

I would encourage everyone who needs a refund to write a respectful request. I think persistence is the key. 

 

You can also try contacting your bank regarding chargeback (if you paid by card), but usually they will require you to contact the venue first. 

[Apollo 40]

The European Consumer Centre have taken on my case and forwarded it to the German branch. 

 

I am hoping the BPO will see sense and refund me.

[Mr. Hooper 5,021]

On 30/4/2025 at 11:50 AM, Mr. Hooper said:

I think the BPO has a problem on their hands, and that many complaints are forthcoming.

I see that I wasn't wrong.

 

But I hope that the returned tickets don't go unsold. I'd hate to see a bunch of empty seats.

[jeremy314 7]

I also requested a refund and have received it.

[BB-8 4,958]

Considering that the show is going on and it is ultimately JW who has cancelled, I find claiming one's money back intra dig.

[bollemanneke 3,999]

It's clearly bruised vanity playing up.

[Joni Wiljami 1,230]

Dozens of tickets available now. Something have changed  in the ticket policy...

[Apollo 40]

20 minutes ago, Joni Wiljami said:

Dozens of tickets available now. Something have changed  in the ticket policy...

What's changed is the BPO either realised, or it was pointed out to them, that their terms and conditions, particularly in regards to these concerts, fly in the face of all EU consumer protection standards, and have therefore capitulated to customers who want their money back for the failure to provide an advertised service.

 

 

Just as an aside, the BPO got back to me last week with a long email about how they are non-profit and are in it for the art etc etc. Then they offered me a 48 euro refund, saying they would give me my tickets at the 76 euro category, and would refund the difference. They then said I had until "tomorrow" to accept this offer. They actually put the word "tomorrow" in bold. How dare they turn this back on me by giving me a deadline. This is not my problem, it's theirs.

 

After this arrogant, self-pitying email, I initiated action with the ECC who, I'm happy to say, have looked at all my emails and documents and are proceeding with my case.

 

I just hope the BPO have the sense to send me a refund before outside organisations start looking into their practices. 

[BB-8 4,958]

[handz 107]

On 9/5/2025 at 10:10 PM, BB-8 said:

Considering that the show is going on and it is ultimately JW who has cancelled, I find claiming one's money back intra dig.

Seriously you still going to protect them for acting like this ? 
 

nobody cares who cancelled, concerts are not happening as they were announced and they wanted to keep the customers money. Astounding and shameful. 

[bollemanneke 3,999]

It would be hilarious if he changed his mind and came anyway now.

[GerateWohl 5,918]

On 09/05/2025 at 10:30 PM, Apollo said:

a long email about how they are non-profit

This.

[JWScores 73]

If the BPO will be forced to give refunds, despite not being the cause of JW's canceling and despite the fact that the concert will take place anyway, then I truly hope that no classical orchestra will ever schedule a film music concert with celebrities conducting again. While there is no barrier between the art forms of classical and film music, maybe there is still a barrier between the respective audiences. I'm starting to think that Norman Lebrecht has a point, after all. 

[Apollo 40]

2 hours ago, JWScores said:

and despite the fact that the concert will take place anyway

But the concert is not taking place. It's a totally different concert. 

[Mr. Hooper 5,021]

5 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

It would be hilarious if he changed his mind and came anyway now.

It was all a ruse to ferret out those who weren't in it purely for the music. lol

 

Joking aside, I'm anticipating that Denève will go the extra mile and give us a bunch of encores to "compensate" for Williams' absence.

 

I'm hoping, anyway!

[Jurassic Shark 14,944]

Perhaps he'll premiere a revised version of JW's symphony.

[Apollo 40]

3 hours ago, JWScores said:

despite not being the cause of JW's canceling

What does this even mean?

 

It doesn't matter who or what caused the cancellation. The fact is that Williams has cancelled and the concerts are not proceeding as advertised.

 

If I went to my local cinema and the projector burst into flames before the film began, I can't imagine the cinema saying they weren't the cause of it and refuse to give me my money back.

[JWScores 73]

56 minutes ago, Apollo said:

But the concert is not taking place. It's a totally different concert. 

 

No, this is precisely what you don't seem to understand. The concert is taking place. The music will be the same and the orchestra playing the music will be the same. Only the conductor will be different. If you wanted to go there just to see John Williams, ask the refund to John Williams, not to the BPO. They will be there and they will do their job. 

 

36 minutes ago, Apollo said:

If I went to my local cinema and the projector burst into flames before the film began, I can't imagine the cinema saying they weren't the cause of it and refuse to give me my money back.

 

In your analogy, the projector is not bursting into flames at all, because (if you go) you will still see the movie. Only the projectionist will be different.

 

Again, the mentality of going there just to see the idol, regardless of the music, is more typical of pop than of classical music. Therefore, maybe classical orchestras should stay away from all this. In classical music, if a conductors breaks a leg the day before the concert and is replaced by an assistant, the concert takes place nevertheless and no one would even think of asking for a refund. Accidents happen, and the orchestras should not pay, unless the concert is canceled of course. Which is not the case.  

 

[bollemanneke 3,999]

On 09/05/2025 at 10:30 PM, Apollo said:

What's changed is the BPO either realised, or it was pointed out to them, that their terms and conditions, particularly in regards to these concerts, fly in the face of all EU consumer protection standards, and have therefore capitulated to customers who want their money back for the failure to provide an advertised service.

 

 

Just as an aside, the BPO got back to me last week with a long email about how they are non-profit and are in it for the art etc etc. Then they offered me a 48 euro refund, saying they would give me my tickets at the 76 euro category, and would refund the difference. They then said I had until "tomorrow" to accept this offer. They actually put the word "tomorrow" in bold. How dare they turn this back on me by giving me a deadline. This is not my problem, it's theirs.

 

After this arrogant, self-pitying email, I initiated action with the ECC who, I'm happy to say, have looked at all my emails and documents and are proceeding with my case.

 

I just hope the BPO have the sense to send me a refund before outside organisations start looking into their practices. 

Oh, here we go, the classical music approach, whining about the art and no money... I hope you get your money back.

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Oh, here we go, the classical music cultural institution trying to survive under capitalism approach, whining about the art and no money... I hope you get your money back.

 

Fixed.

 

4 hours ago, JWScores said:

If the BPO will be forced to give refunds, despite not being the cause of JW's canceling and despite the fact that the concert will take place anyway, then I truly hope that no classical orchestra will ever schedule a film music concert with celebrities conducting again.

 

I'm honestly starting to get a bit worried about this.

[bollemanneke 3,999]

There's more than enough money in the classical music industry. Case in point, the demented, insane and never-ending catalogue of recordings, and/or the utterly unnecessary phenomenon of UK and Ukrainian orchestras travelling to Antwerp while we've got one of our onwn.

[Apollo 40]

Blows my mind that people on here think the BPO should have indemnity as if they are Pfizer during the Covid pandemic. 

 

 

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

9 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

There's more than enough money in the classical music industry. Case in point, the demented, insane and never-ending catalogue of recordings,

 

Mostly live recordings these days, because nobody can afford "studio" recordings anymore.

 

9 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

and/or the utterly unnecessary phenomenon of UK and Ukrainian orchestras travelling to Antwerp while we've got one of our onwn.

 

So orchestras shouldn't travel? I was happy to hear the Boston Symphony Orchestra live the other day, with a Shostakovich symphony that's (as far as I'm aware) rarely performed in these parts. And much of the British standard repertoire is still rarely performed in central Europe, so I say bring more UK orchestras here.

 

Also, if orchestras shouldn't travel, why should we expect Williams & Co to do so?

[Apollo 40]

36 minutes ago, JWScores said:

ask the refund to John Williams, not to the BPO

If i go to a deli and pay for a chicken sandwich, and I'm given a turkey sandwich, I'm not going to ask the chicken for my money back. I'm going to ask the deli. It's really basic stuff.

[bollemanneke 3,999]

1 minute ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Mostly live recordings these days, because nobody can afford "studio" recordings anymore.

 

 

So orchestras shouldn't travel? I was happy to hear the Boston Symphony Orchestra live the other day, with a Shostakovich symphony that's (as far as I'm aware) rarely performed in these parts. And much of the British standard repertoire is still rarely performed in central Europe, so I say bring more UK orchestras here.

 

Also, if orchestras shouldn't travel, why should we expect Williams & Co to do so?

I don't think you can compare Williams, the person, to an orchestra. Also, I can imagine that that Bosotn performance was nice, but don't you have an orchestra in your own country who could put it on? What I mean is, if my more than capable symphony orchestra can play Beethoven's violin Concerto, why get the City of Birmingham to do it? What makes them so special? Who in that hall cares that it's them? The coughing 85-year-olds who make it their life mission to clear their throats during every pause and, judging by their remarks, don't know the next thing about the piece? Shouldn't we all try and fund our own musicians?

[JWScores 73]

18 minutes ago, Apollo said:

If i go to a deli and pay for a chicken sandwich, and I'm given a turkey sandwich, I'm not going to ask the chicken for my money back. I'm going to ask the deli. It's really basic stuff.

 

In little more than an hour, you have already proposed three wrong analogies. You are still getting the chicken sandwich, not a turkey in place of the chicken. Only the deli employee who hands it to you will be different. The chicken, the bread, the salad, anything else in it, and even the location will be the same.  

 

The incomprehension lies in the fact that you think JW is the chicken. Instead, for classical musicians and classical music fans, the chicken is the music.

[Apollo 40]

6 minutes ago, JWScores said:

The incomprehension lies in the fact that you think JW is the chicken. Instead, the chicken is the music.

It's utterly bizarre that you think the people who want a refund are somehow in the wrong and a risk to the future of the BPO. 

 

It's approaching Jonestown level stuff.

 

I'll be back on here to confirm when I've received my refund. Goodbye until then.

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Also, I can imagine that that Bosotn performance was nice, but don't you have an orchestra in your own country who could put it on?

 

Could? Sure. Would? Maybe? Would it be the same? Unlikely, because orchestras are different - or why were we so excited about Williams to come conduct the Vienna Philharmonic, Berlin Philharmonic, and (originally) the London Philharmonic, instead of just taking the Boston Pops on tour?

 

Also, the concert was conducted by Andris Nelsons, who has a history with Shostakovich - together with the orchestra. Sure, he could have conducted the Vienna Philharmonic, but it wouldn't have been the same as with the Boston Symphony, with whom he has carefully prepared their interpretation.

 

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

What I mean is, if my more than capable symphony orchestra can play Beethoven's violin Concerto, why get the City of Birmingham to do it? What makes them so special? Who in that hall cares that it's them?

 

Why have more than one orchestra at all?

 

All orchestras are different. Their musicians are different. Their instruments are different. The history and culture are different. Their relationships with conductors are different. Or why else are some orchestras more famed than others - and at the same time, why do some performances and recordings by one orchestra get much praise, while other works get more, or different praise with another orchestra?

 

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

The coughing 85-year-olds who make it their life mission to clear their throats during every pause

 

They're the same (as could be heard at the Shostakovich concert) regardless of what orchestra is playing… and they predominantly clear their throats not during the pauses, but during the quiet parts of the music.

 

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Shouldn't we all try and fund our own musicians?

 

Yes. And then share them. Music isn't only about good performers and less good performers, it's very much about *different* performers.

[bollemanneke 3,999]

But how many orchestras are distinctly different enough to warrant going to see them overseas? Okay, Vienna and Berlin and the LSO and Boston, fine. But other than that? I'm fine with any live concert as long as the playing is good and the sheet music is correct.

[Chewy 2,719]

1 hour ago, JWScores said:

The incomprehension lies in the fact that you think JW is the chicken.

 

This has been an interesting discussion 

[Tom 5,591]

So, I have been under the weather for a couple of weeks.  Anyone here going to Berlin to see John Williams?   

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

10 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

But how many orchestras are distinctly different enough to warrant going to see them overseas? Okay, Vienna and Berlin and the LSO and Boston, fine. But other than that? I'm fine with any live concert as long as the playing is good and the sheet music is correct.

 

I'm sure there are far more, just as I'm sure there are fans of relatively obscure orchestras that are familiar enough with them to appreciate their unique differences that I wouldn't be aware of. And also, as I mentioned, it's a matter of repertoire - both repertoire familiar to the orchestra (remember the much criticised sloppiness in *some* the Williams pieces performed by the Vienna Philharmonic? That's because they're *very* used to repertoire, and not that used to play new music that's not familiar to them, and apparently have a reputation for under-rehearsing some newer material), and repertoire familiar to specific pairings of orchestras, conductors, and soloists. Different orchestras and conductors bring different works to their concerts (and the same conductor will chose different works for different orchestras they work with - based on the orchestra's particular strengths, and also their different core repertoire). If it takes British orchestras to play more RVW, Walton, and Bax in Europe, bring them here.

 

And don't forget that guest concerts and tours are an important part in the lives of many musicians - important for two very different reasons: One, they're interesting and exciting, and concert travels are for many musicians a key component of their jobs. I know this from first hand experience: We sadly haven't done a proper choir trip with concerts to another country for about a decade, but when we did them, they were always exciting and motivating. And you need only watch the social media accounts of players from various world class orchestras to see that it's the same for the pros.

 

And two, an orchestra will usually only play a programme once or twice at one location, for two simple reasons: They have more repertoire and only a finite number of concerts per season to play their current active repertoire, and more importantly in this case: There's only a limited audience for a given programme. Three dates for both this year's Williams concerts and also next year's Berlin performance of his piano concerto go a long way to show just how popular his music is - obviously even without him conducting, or they wouldn't play the piano concerto thrice. Taking a programme on tour allows an orchestra (and conductor) to play these works more than once or twice, and improve their interpretations (and also justifies spending more time in rehearsals). And it also means more people will get a chance to hear that specific programme, which few other orchestras might be playing in a similar time slot (or ever).

 

Finally, I'm lucky to live in Vienna, a city that has at least three major first rate orchestras (aside from getting regular visits by all the world's major orchestras - but even then, the Boston Symphony didn't have their debut at the Musikverein until 1971, I was surprised to learn). Other cities and venues are not so lucky. For example, take the Brucknerhaus Linz, which is one of the other major classical venues in Austria and these days is doing very exciting programmes (courtesy of their new-ish first rate programme planner), including a cycle of film music classics and rarities this autumn. They have *one* "home orchestra" of their own, the Bruckner Orchester Linz, which is handling a decent share of their seasons - but it couldn't carry a whole season on its own. Venues *depend* on scheduling guest orchestras, because different orchestras bring different programmes while their own orchestras can simultaneously bring their programmes to other venues.

 

And besides all that, it increases artistic and cultural exchange and communication between different groups of artists.

[Jurassic Shark 14,944]

10 minutes ago, Tom said:

So, I have been under the weather for a couple of weeks.  Anyone here going to Berlin to see John Williams?   

 

Just give us a report after you've been there. 

[toothless 1,019]

The only relevant question is about how they priced the concert.

 

• If the price was higher (compared to other comparable concert) because Williams was specifically conducting, then they should definitely issue refund for those who ask for it. Because OF COURSE people in the EU were mostly going to see Williams live. I know I did last time, it was my only chance to see him conduct. 

 

• But if the price is sensibly the same, then they are right to refuse issuing refunds. That’s it. Yes it sucks, yes it’s sad, yes you can debate whether they should, etc, etc. But they do have terms and conditions, it’s still a great orchestra playing great music and it’s part of the gamble for wanting to see live a man than over 90 years old. 
 

All of this strikes me as bad communication. That’s it.

 

Other than that, I feel for people that will probably never see Williams live, I really do. I thought it’d be the case for me in London but then got the chance to fly to Berlin. But looking at the entire discussion here, it’s striking how the world needs more nuance. 

[Sunshine Reger 3,649]

12 hours ago, JWScores said:

If the BPO will be forced to give refunds, despite not being the cause of JW's canceling and despite the fact that the concert will take place anyway, then I truly hope that no classical orchestra will ever schedule a film music concert with celebrities conducting again. While there is no barrier between the art forms of classical and film music, maybe there is still a barrier between the respective audiences. I'm starting to think that Norman Lebrecht has a point, after all. 

I wouldn't worry about that. They are - except for Williams - (almost) all dead.

 

8 hours ago, JWScores said:

They will be there and they will do their job. 

If they even show up. As a customer I would be wary of shenanigans like those in 2021 when an aberrant number of their principal (and not only) players bailed out of the concerts with Williams, gutting especially the cohesions in the wind sections, and was sneakily replaced by assorted musicians from other European ensembles. There was no mention of it and recordings afterwards of course had all the absentees credited. To join the chain of poultry metaphors, if it doesn't sound like a duck and doesn't look like a duck, it ain't no duck!

 

8 hours ago, JWScores said:

Again, the mentality of going there just to see the idol, regardless of the music, is more typical of pop than of classical music. Therefore, maybe classical orchestras should stay away from all this. In classical music, if a conductors breaks a leg the day before the concert and is replaced by an assistant, the concert takes place nevertheless and no one would even think of asking for a refund.

Of course it mattered to the citizens of Prague that Mozart himself was at the keyboard. It mattered to Americans that Anton Rubinstein or Rachmaninoff were at the keyboard. That Tchaikovsky or Mahler were conducting their own music. When Rossini came to Vienna it was a riot! When Wagner conducted in Bayreuth, every dignitary and foreign correspondent wanted to speak with him. Verdi coming out of his secretive life and showing up where the audience was, was a cause celebre.

 

7 hours ago, JWScores said:

 

In little more than an hour, you have already proposed three wrong analogies. You are still getting the chicken sandwich, not a turkey in place of the chicken. Only the deli employee who hands it to you will be different. The chicken, the bread, the salad, anything else in it, and even the location will be the same.  

 

The incomprehension lies in the fact that you think JW is the chicken. Instead, for classical musicians and classical music fans, the chicken is the music.

 

I understand where you are coming from. You were born, raised, and trained in a cultural millieu and bubble where a typical "classical music concert experience" is a museal exhibition for a just as museal an audience. Nevermind the lively audiences of the 1930s, when the average age was around 30, or the opera houses in the heyday of Richard Strauss and little Korngold, or the dramas not just featuring but around star performers like Maria Callas, with them appearing or not appearing being a gossip gold for an audience close to themselves in age. Don't get me started regarding the unwashed 18th century audiences who not just chatted while "listening" to a concert, but unashamedly munched on literal representations of what you are describing above, all while sitting in a room more and better lit than a Taylor Swift concert.

 

I don't think the situation warrants our ranting and quarrelling. One day people will be looking back to the time when a single classically-trained musician like Williams made a downright spiritual difference to so many, with nostalgia.

 

P.S. The situation would have been milder had Williams been routinely invited by continental European orchestras - as he should have been - since the 1970s. The concert hall establishment has been playing film composers dirty since the 1940s, if not even earlier, failing to integrate them and their suites and excerpts into the programmes, and exacerbating the cultural divide over time. But I digress...

 

P.P.S. I am sure the concert with a mostly Berliner Philharmonie and Deneve at helm will still be a fine experience for everybody involved. I would sincerly prefer it over most other classical concerts happening around the same time in the same area. I did not intend to attend in the first place only because 2021 was enough for me.

 

[Mr. Hooper 5,021]

1 hour ago, Sunshine Reger said:

If they even show up. As a customer I would be wary of shenanigans like those in 2021 when an aberrant number of their principal (and not only) players bailed out of the concerts with Williams

A snub to Williams (and film music)?

 

I'm kinda sorry I read this, and hope that they'll all be present this time... But if the same thing happens, I'll hold the BPO in a little less high regard.

[Director of Poltergeist 8,048]

He reportedly had America (The Dream Goes On) on the setlists. No wonder!

[Mr. Hooper 5,021]

1 minute ago, Mr. Lovejoy said:

He reportedly had America (The Dream Goes On) on the setlists. No wonder!

Fair enough! 

[Foxfan 186]

2 hours ago, Mr. Lovejoy said:

He reportedly had America (The Dream Goes On) on the setlists. No wonder!

 

I'd love to hear Celebrate Discovery at least once in concert but the anti-Columbus SJWs have pretty much "cancelled" the possibility of that happening.

[Director of Poltergeist 8,048]

He discovered America is what he did. He was a brave Italian explorer. And in this house, Christopher Columbus is a hero. End of story.

[Tom 5,591]

22 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Just give us a report after you've been there. 

I'll be sure to do that, and, great news, I was just able to get a whole mess of tickets for cheap for the fam.  

[pete 1,085]

55 minutes ago, Foxfan said:

 

I'd love to hear Celebrate Discovery at least once in concert but the anti-Columbus SJWs have pretty much "cancelled" the possibility of that happening.

 

He opened with that for two of the London 1998 concerts - two of the four nights had an American theme with the last of the concerts falling on July 4. -> Program.

 

And yeah, it sounded great. It was my first time hearing the piece, so it was a long agonizing wait waiting for it to be released!

 

So having seen Williams conduct, I can relate to wanting a refund. But I'd probably attend if I lived nearby, and definatelty attend if I were combining the concert with a trip to Europe. But I'm definately leaning on the side of "What was advertised isn't what's being delivered, so refunds should be offered". 

[Naïve Old Fart 11,600]

If JW is not returning (looks like he's cancelled all public engagements for the foreseeable), what is his final (to date) public conducting gig?

[poligoni 0]

Hi, I received the email too. I also have 2 tickets and I want a refund. Where should I write to request it?

[Sunshine Reger 3,649]

8 hours ago, Foxfan said:

the anti-Columbus SJWs have pretty much "cancelled" the possibility of that happening.

Without context I thought you were talking about director changes in the Harry Potter Series 

[BB-8 4,958]

8 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

If JW is not returning (looks like he's cancelled all public engagements for the foreseeable), what is his final (to date) public conducting gig?

Likely this: An Evening with John Williams and Yo-Yo Ma: One Night Only at Carnegie Hall (February 22, 2024)

[Maurizio 5,835]

14 hours ago, Sunshine Reger said:

I wouldn't worry about that. They are - except for Williams - (almost) all dead.

 

If they even show up. As a customer I would be wary of shenanigans like those in 2021 when an aberrant number of their principal (and not only) players bailed out of the concerts with Williams, gutting especially the cohesions in the wind sections, and was sneakily replaced by assorted musicians from other European ensembles. There was no mention of it and recordings afterwards of course had all the absentees credited. To join the chain of poultry metaphors, if it doesn't sound like a duck and doesn't look like a duck, it ain't no duck!

 

Of course it mattered to the citizens of Prague that Mozart himself was at the keyboard. It mattered to Americans that Anton Rubinstein or Rachmaninoff were at the keyboard. That Tchaikovsky or Mahler were conducting their own music. When Rossini came to Vienna it was a riot! When Wagner conducted in Bayreuth, every dignitary and foreign correspondent wanted to speak with him. Verdi coming out of his secretive life and showing up where the audience was, was a cause celebre.

 

 

I understand where you are coming from. You were born, raised, and trained in a cultural millieu and bubble where a typical "classical music concert experience" is a museal exhibition for a just as museal an audience. Nevermind the lively audiences of the 1930s, when the average age was around 30, or the opera houses in the heyday of Richard Strauss and little Korngold, or the dramas not just featuring but around star performers like Maria Callas, with them appearing or not appearing being a gossip gold for an audience close to themselves in age. Don't get me started regarding the unwashed 18th century audiences who not just chatted while "listening" to a concert, but unashamedly munched on literal representations of what you are describing above, all while sitting in a room more and better lit than a Taylor Swift concert.

 

I don't think the situation warrants our ranting and quarrelling. One day people will be looking back to the time when a single classically-trained musician like Williams made a downright spiritual difference to so many, with nostalgia.

 

P.S. The situation would have been milder had Williams been routinely invited by continental European orchestras - as he should have been - since the 1970s. The concert hall establishment has been playing film composers dirty since the 1940s, if not even earlier, failing to integrate them and their suites and excerpts into the programmes, and exacerbating the cultural divide over time. But I digress...

 

P.P.S. I am sure the concert with a mostly Berliner Philharmonie and Deneve at helm will still be a fine experience for everybody involved. I would sincerly prefer it over most other classical concerts happening around the same time in the same area. I did not intend to attend in the first place only because 2021 was enough for me.

 

 

 

All of this a million times. I think you nailed a lot of key points here.

 

Let's not hide the hard fact that classical music institutions - even when they're non-profit - are also influenced by the star factor of specific guest conductors and soloists, who often draw a bigger audience to the symphony willing to pay a premium to listen to Muti or Dudamel conducting Mahler, or Danil Trifonov playing Chopin, or Renee Fleming singing famous arias from operas, etc. And it's not something that happens only in the modern era--audiences went nuts and paid good money to attend a performance by Toscanini or Callas or Lenny Bernstein even way back in the 1940s and '50s. So, I think a John Williams-conducted concert is closer to these type of circumstances rather than a regular night with a non-star conductor performing film score selections. Using a contemporary popstar reference instead can be deceptive and not fair either to JW or to (insert famous popstar name) for several reasons, but I can understand how many people feel it's exactly the same. These are indeed expensive tickets and, in the eyes of many, only the presence of a star name probably justifies such premium prices.

 

On the other hand, I believe that John Williams fans who have tickets for the Berlin nights should attend these concerts nonetheless, to show support for a repertoire which is rarely performed by such high-profile orchestras without a star conductor. As others have already signaled, if these will turn out as three half-empty nights, it will be pretty discouraging and something that could signal to these institutions that people won't show up without the star factor involved. I can totally understand why some people want a full refund and that they can even be very upset at how some of the communication has been handled; I can also feel for people who were setting up traveling schedules from abroad just because of this and now feel the effort is not worth without JW being there. But as other said, it's not like the Berlin Phil are regularly playing John Williams music all the time, quite the contrary, it's still the exception, so a sort of star factor (even if diminished by the absence of the Maestro) is still there.

 

We've entered a new era where all John Williams concerts anywhere, be it either the Wiener Philharmoniker or the Des Moines Symphony, will be very likely conducted by others except him.

[Foxfan 186]

4 hours ago, BB-8 said:

Likely this:An Evening with John Williams and Yo-Yo Ma: One Night Only at Carnegie Hall (February 22, 2024)

 

Yep, and before that, Pittsburgh Dec 12, 2023, which was the last one I attended.

 

Keeping my fingers crosses he'll make a surprise appearance at Tanglewood August 2025.

[Maurizio 5,835]

15 hours ago, Sunshine Reger said:

If they even show up. As a customer I would be wary of shenanigans like those in 2021 when an aberrant number of their principal (and not only) players bailed out of the concerts with Williams, gutting especially the cohesions in the wind sections, and was sneakily replaced by assorted musicians from other European ensembles. There was no mention of it and recordings afterwards of course had all the absentees credited.

 

Emanuel Pahud, Albrecht Mayer and Stefan Dohr were some of the most notoriously absent. I think principals chairs are always offered the chance to bail out from any performance they want (and sometimes they may also have performances as guest soloists already scheduled elsewhere--these are super busy musicians). Still, as somebody complained stressing the concept, it was the equivalent of a "Berliner Pops" gig. And if you pay good money to listen to the Berlin Phil, you probably want to see all the principals playing in their chairs.

 

I never understood the reasons why this happened. The malicious said this was the orchestra basically giving the middle finger to JW (a bit like how the Vienna Phil made JW life hard in 2020 by stubbornly not following his downbeat), but who knows. Perhaps just a scheduling conflict was likely the reason.