Triumphant Hidden Jabba's Theme in 3M10 Start Your Engines (The Phantom Menace)

[Jofi_ 44]

This is so hidden, yet once you hear it you can't unhear it! In the scene in the Phantom Menace where Jabba emerges at the start of the podrace, there is a kind of triumphant, more regal version of his theme (marked pomposo in the score 😃).

 

Classic JW moment, hiding themes and somehow making them seamlessly fit into the rest of the music.

 

Here the timestamp where it appears in the officially released OST.

 

Also I did a piano arrangement of this entire OST track if anyone is interested: 

 

[Tom 4,948]

Yes, it is a very cool moment.  I would not say that it is hidden, as it is pretty big and bold.  

[Taikomochi 1,184]

I didn’t notice it for many years until it was pointed out to me here just a few years ago.

[Sunshine Reger 3,571]

It's mag-nificent. 

[Tallguy 4,109]

That one I got pretty much right away. The Emperor's Theme being Augie's Great Municipal Band? That one had to be pointed out to me. (And it is GENIUS.)

[artguy360 1,889]

That statement of Jabba's theme and the cough and you'll miss it statement of Yoda's towards the end of the movie are two of my favorite moments from the score. I appreciate how JW used OG trilogy themes in the prequel trilogy. He didn't over do it.

[enderdrag64 797]

Oh wow. I've seen people here mention it numerous times but that's the first time I've actually heard it. That's impressive. Reminds me of the hidden Imperial March at the start of ESB.

[Jofi_ 44]

What hidden Imperial march are u referring to? (I'm guessing the piccolo solo?)

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 10,222]

2 hours ago, Jofi_ said:

What hidden Imperial march are u referring to? (I'm guessing the piccolo solo?)

 

 

 

It's heard as the flags are taken out on to the track.

You do know that Anakin's Theme is The Imperial March, don't you?

[Tallguy 4,109]

3 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

You do know that Anakin's Theme is The Imperial March, don't you?

 

Well, the last section of it is. (Someone with an actual music vocabulary can get specific.)

[BB-8 3,801]

17 hours ago, Tallguy said:

That one I got pretty much right away. The Emperor's Theme being Augie's Great Municipal Band? That one had to be pointed out to me. (And it is GENIUS.)

Same.

 

And the whole track starts with a kinda Dies irae quote. ;-)

 

 

 

[The Great Gonzales 6,028]

4 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

It's heard as the flags are taken out on to the track.

You do know that Anakin's Theme is The Imperial March, don't you?

What flags are taken out on to the track at the start of ESB?

[Jofi_ 44]

6 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

It's heard as the flags are taken out on to the track.

You do know that Anakin's Theme is The Imperial March, don't you?

Yes, the end of Anakin's Theme is a nod to the Imperial March.

 

But what flag scene are u reffering to in ESB? Are u thinking of TPM?

[Trope 684]

It's easy to confuse films of such similar quality!

[Chen G. 4,402]

On 02/07/2024 at 1:49 PM, Tallguy said:

Well, the last section of it is. (Someone with an actual music vocabulary can get specific.)

 

The last section just makes it overt: the entire theme is suffused with the March, certainly in terms of the chord progression (The "Tarnhelm" chords, except major).

 

When composers want you to hear a connection between two themes, the easiest way to call overt attention to it is to play the two themes in close conjunction. In the first act of Valkyrie, Wagner wants us to hear that the music of the storm, of Siegmund's exhaustion and of the budding attachment with Sieglinde are all versions of Wotan's music, and so he transplants it - with no particular prompt in the scenario - into the scene. That's essentially what Williams does with that little tail of Anakin's music, although it really only comes out in the end-credit suite.

 

But what is referred to in this thread is the way the March is "hidden" in the music of the approach to Cloud City.

[Tallguy 4,109]

16 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

But what is referred to in this thread is the way the March is "hidden" in the music of the approach to Cloud City.

 

Say what now?

[Holko 10,006]

How the hell is Cloud City at the start of ESB? Can nobody actually read in this thread?

[Chen G. 4,402]

13 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Say what now?

 

 

[Trope 684]

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

 

I always loved that timpani referencing the Vader theme, but I think this thread has turned into different people talking about different themes appearing in different scenes in different films.

[Chen G. 4,402]

5 minutes ago, Trope said:

I think this thread has turned into different people talking about different themes appearing in different scenes in different films.

 

It did.

 

So, lets make order: Jabba's music is "concealed" in the fanfares surrounding the Podrace.

 

The theme associated with the Emperor is concealed in the concluding celebrations of The Phantom Menace.

 

The Imperial March is concealed in the music of the young Anakin, and still more in certain junctures in, especially, The Empire Strikes Back: namely, the opening of the film and the approach to Cloud City. Other noted "hidden" versions of it is as chords "poisoning" the theme related to the Force during the Obi Wan-Anakin duel, and as part of the "Jedi Step" composition.

[Smeltington 1,534]

So, who will tell us where the Imperial March is hidden in the opening of ESB?

[Chen G. 4,402]

When we see the star destroyer, its a kind of "embryonic" form of the March already.

[Trope 684]

5 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

So, who will tell us where the Imperial March is hidden in the opening of ESB?

In plain sight, honestly. It's the first thing you hear after the main title finishes!

[Naïve Old Fart 10,222]

10 minutes ago, Trope said:

In plain sight, honestly. It's the first thing you hear after the main title finishes!

 

You're not wrong.

[Tallguy 4,109]

44 minutes ago, Trope said:

In plain sight, honestly. It's the first thing you hear after the main title finishes!

 

Yeah, that's just a statement. It's not sneaky like the four notes of the March that end the film.

 

There was a lot of talk a few years ago about the March being "hidden" in Vader's last scene in Rogue One. Again, I thought that was just a variation of a statement.

[The Great Gonzales 6,028]

It's not hidden, but it's somewhat obscured by the brass notes, especially (?) on the 97.

[Tom 4,948]

1 hour ago, The Great Gonzales said:

It's not hidden, but it's somewhat obscured by the brass notes, especially (?) on the 97.

Yes, I don't want to sound too pedantic, but there is a difference between something being hidden and a person/s not noticing.  There is also a difference between a theme being hidden and a theme being introduced in part.

[Chen G. 4,402]

Its "hidden" in the same way that the reference to Wotan in the Valkyrie example I gave was hidden, which is to say not at all. 

[Mr. Hooper 2,957]

5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

So, lets make order: Jabba's music is "concealed" in the fanfares surrounding the Podrace.

 

The theme associated with the Emperor is concealed in the concluding celebrations of The Phantom Menace.

 

The Imperial March is concealed in the music of the young Anakin

I'll just say that some themes were much better "concealed" than others.

 

Jabba's theme jumped out at me on first hearing, as well as the Imperial March for young Anakin.

 

But "concealed" is definitely the word when talking about the Emperor's theme in Augie's Great Municipal Band...and I'll say it required a really attentive ear to detect.

 

If anyone heard it on a first, or even fifth, hearing, my hat's off to you.

[Chen G. 4,402]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

But "concealed" is definitely the word when talking about the Emperor's theme in Augie's Great Municipal Band...and I'll say it required a really attentive ear to detect.

 

The whole premise is that you don't need to be consciously aware of these things: cf. the Imperial March "hidden" in the approach to Cloud City. I don't think Williams thought anyone would consciously pick up on it, but he assumed it would peck at the back of one's subconscious.

 

Did Howard Shore think people will actually notice that he sets-up the destruction of the Ring - still hours in the future - in that little chat Gandalf and Aragorn have? I most seriously doubt it. But its there on the assumption that, subliminally, when we do hear the music when Barad Dur collapse, we'd go "This music...I know I must have heard it before somewhere in these films!" Does Wagner seriously think that during Mime's Starling Song we'll remember that similar music cropped-up in his short scene in Rhinegold, hours prior?

[Jofi_ 44]

5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

The whole premise is that you don't need to be consciously aware of these things: cf. the Imperial March "hidden" in the approach to Cloud City. I don't think Williams thought anyone would consciously pick up on it, but he assumed it would peck at the back of one's subconscious.

 

Did Howard Shore think people will actually notice that he sets-up the destruction of the Ring - still hours in the future - in that little chat Gandalf and Aragorn have? I most seriously doubt it. But its there on the assumption that, subliminally, when we do hear the music when Barad Dur collapse, we'd go "This music...I know I must have heard it before somewhere in these films!" Does Wagner seriously think that during Mime's Starling Song we'll remember that similar music cropped-up in his short scene in Rhinegold, hours prior?

Well obviously we did notice it, or we wouldnt be discussing it in a thread

[Mr. Hooper 2,957]

9 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Does Wagner seriously think that during Mime's Starling Song we'll remember that similar music cropped-up in his short scene in Rhinegold, hours prior?

I doubt anyone here would seriously suggest that he did. 

[Trope 684]

If you listen carefully, you can actually hear Luke’s theme in the main title to The Phantom Menace. What this means I’m not entirely sure, but I’m 90% sure it’s his theme.

[Chen G. 4,402]

4 hours ago, Trope said:

What this means I’m not entirely sure, but I’m 90% sure it’s his theme.

 

Ah, I see we're taking the scenic route into the Wonderful Land of Theme Names! O joy!

 

"Erm, is that Luke's theme? Or is it 'The Star Wars Theme'?" - "D'oh, don't you know, its 'The Heroism theme'!" - "Pfft, I call it 'The Skywalker Theme'!"

[BB-8 3,801]

Is it triumphant or pompous?

[Tallguy 4,109]

27 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

Is it triumphant or pompous?

 

Depends on the circumstance.

 

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

Ah, I see we're taking the scenic route into the Wonderful Land of Theme Names! O joy!

 

"Erm, is that Luke's theme? Or is it 'The Star Wars Theme'?" - "D'oh, don't you know, its 'The Heroism theme'!" - "Pfft, I call it 'The Skywalker Theme'!"

 

You know, this is the problem with taking the scores as a whole or even dividing them up into "trilogies" when they really are individual films.

 

5 hours ago, Trope said:

If you listen carefully, you can actually hear Luke’s theme in the main title to The Phantom Menace. What this means I’m not entirely sure, but I’m 90% sure it’s his theme.

 

Damn that made me laugh.

[Mr. Hooper 2,957]

3 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Depends on the circumstance.

 

"Well done indeed, sir!"

[Joni Wiljami 1,207]

11 hours ago, BB-8 said:

Is it triumphant or pompous?it is 

 

It is trumphiant and narcissistic.

[Ollie 1,106]

Yes I noticed Jabba’s theme on the second or third listen in 99 and caught the Emperor’s theme the first time I listened to the score.

[Mr. Hooper 2,957]

14 minutes ago, Ollie said:

caught the Emperor’s theme the first time I listened to the score.

[BB-8 3,801]

I have a silly question: Is Anakin's pompous triumph after winning the pod race a variation on his theme?

 

 

[artguy360 1,889]

I have a Jabba related question:

 

In the Special Edition of A New Hope where Lucas included the scene between Jabba and Han, where does the music to underscore it come from? Is the Jabba's theme tracked from ROTJ? Is the rest of the underscore originally written for the scene or tracked in from another SW movie?

 

 

https://youtu.be/-BYD08tZOlI?si=5TxM2keEqCjCDfeB

[The Great Gonzales 6,028]

1 minute ago, artguy360 said:

I have a Jabba related question:

 

In the Special Edition of A New Hope where Lucas included the scene between Jabba and Han, where does the music to underscore it come from? Is the Jabba's theme tracked from ROTJ? Is the rest of the underscore originally written for the scene or tracked in from another SW movie?

 

 

https://youtu.be/-BYD08tZOlI?si=5TxM2keEqCjCDfeB

Tracked from ROTJ, Bounty for a Wookie I think.

[Brando 2,044]

2 hours ago, artguy360 said:

I have a Jabba related question:

 

In the Special Edition of A New Hope where Lucas included the scene between Jabba and Han, where does the music to underscore it come from? Is the Jabba's theme tracked from ROTJ? Is the rest of the underscore originally written for the scene or tracked in from another SW movie?

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

Tracked from ROTJ, Bounty for a Wookie I think.

Correct. The first tracked bit is from 4m3 The Sarlacc Pit, and the other portion is 2m5 Jabba's Prisoners (aka "Bounty for a Wookie"). If you want to hear just the music, here is my Special Edition film edit of the track. If you didn't know because you only watch the original theatrical versions, the music during the Falcon taking off has a few edits because of the extra special effects shots: 

 

 

[artguy360 1,889]

39 minutes ago, Brando said:

 

Correct. The first tracked bit is from 4m3 The Sarlacc Pit, and the other portion is 2m5 Jabba's Prisoners (aka "Bounty for a Wookie"). If you want to hear just the music, here is my Special Edition film edit of the track. If you didn't know because you only watch the original theatrical versions, the music during the Falcon taking off has a few edits because of the extra special effects shots: 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, The Great Gonzales said:

Tracked from ROTJ, Bounty for a Wookie I think.

Thanks to you both! Aside from the big replacement piece for the end of ROTJ, I never really thought about how they handled the music for the Special Additions. Did JW anything new aside from the new finale replacing yub-nub?

[Brando 2,044]

3 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

Thanks to you both! Aside from the big replacement piece for the end of ROTJ, I never really thought about how they handled the music for the Special Additions. Did JW anything new aside from the new finale replacing yub-nub?

JW didn't do anything new other than Victory Celebration, but here are some different editiorial differences in case you were curious off the top of my head: There is a section looped in all 3 End Credits (to accommodate the SE people working on that version), the desert scenes with the new stormtroopers/dewbacks has some tracked material from the later Death Star scene, the first portion of 'Standing By' is dialled out (weirdly enough, this is ONLY present in the 2004 DVD release, this music was restored in the Blu-Ray and 4K), the alternate take of 'The Imperial March' that was used 3 or 4 times throughout ESB was reverted back to the original recordings of the cues, except for the start of 'The Executor', they did restore the ending of one of the cues before ESB's finale, I think its the cue when Leia sees Boba take off in his ship, I can't remember that one, the tracking for the Luke's Rescue/Hyper-Space changes, for Jedi, other than Victory Celebration and Jedi Rocks replacing the original cues, I think most of the edits are the same. The Sail Barge scene has some tiny alterations, but nothing major. I might've missed some as well.

[Holko 10,006]

53 minutes ago, Brando said:

the first portion of 'Standing By' is dialled out (weirdly enough, this is ONLY present in the 2004 DVD release, this music was restored in the Blu-Ray and 4K),

Isn't it the very beginning of the cue right after that's completely drowned out? When they've arrived at the DS and the shooting begins?

[enderdrag64 797]

1 hour ago, Brando said:

the alternate take of 'The Imperial March' that was used 3 or 4 times throughout ESB was reverted back to the original recordings of the cues

To be clear, this change has nothing to do with alternate takes. The film take of the Imperial March that was tracked over portions in the theatrical is the same take that was tracked over portions in the Special Edition, the only thing they changed is they removed most of that tracking, allowing the imperial fleet transitions to be their original intended music instead.

[mstrox 6,778]

2 hours ago, Brando said:

 

Correct. The first tracked bit is from 4m3 The Sarlacc Pit, and the other portion is 2m5 Jabba's Prisoners (aka "Bounty for a Wookie"). If you want to hear just the music, here is my Special Edition film edit of the track. If you didn't know because you only watch the original theatrical versions, the music during the Falcon taking off has a few edits because of the extra special effects shots: 

 

 

This reminds me of the verrrrrry early days of JWFan - edits of the SW special edition scene scores and the TPM trailer scores plopped right on the front page.  I think it was even pre-forum.

[Brando 2,044]

19 hours ago, enderdrag64 said:

To be clear, this change has nothing to do with alternate takes. The film take of the Imperial March that was tracked over portions in the theatrical is the same take that was tracked over portions in the Special Edition, the only thing they changed is they removed most of that tracking, allowing the imperial fleet transitions to be their original intended music instead.

Ah, I should've clarified, when I said 'alternate', I meant that it hasn't been released, I should've called it 'unreleased take', but I assume on a future expansion Mike would call it an alternate, but thats just a guess.

20 hours ago, Holko said:

Isn't it the very beginning of the cue right after that's completely drowned out? When they've arrived at the DS and the shooting begins?

@Manakin Skywalker Told me about this a while ago, and sent me a clip of it and since I haven't watched the 2004 versions in years I can't recall off the top of my head but I seem to remember the music starting after the ships enter space.