enderdrag64's Star Wars Cue by Cue

[Jay 39,761]

Your post also says "Fandom Image" at one point

[enderdrag64 913]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

Your post also says "Fandom Image" at one point

Copy-paste error, fixed

[Jay 39,761]

I don't think I ever knew before that there could be an unheard ending of Ben's Death since the film and all releases segue into TIE Fighter Attack earlier than where the sheet music ended.  Maybe this could be a bonus track on a future expansion

[ThePenitentMan1 1,064]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

I don't think I ever knew before that there could be an unheard ending of Ben's Death since the film and all releases segue into TIE Fighter Attack earlier than where the sheet music ended.  Maybe this could be a bonus track on a future expansion

 

While an intriguing possibility, I would argue it's pretty unlikely, if not extremely unlikely, due to the fact that Mike Matessino has once stated (in the FSM thread for the Star Trek TMP 2-CD LLL release, if I'm not mistaken) that nobody has ever asked for Ben's Death and TIE Fighter Attack to be separated, followed by several posters requesting it and him saying it isn't worth it.

 

If this unheard ending were indeed recorded, then even if it weren't included on the '97 album, Mike, who would've known what was on those sessions at that time, probably might've said something about it by now, and certainly wouldn't have dismissed the possibility of separating the cues if unique musical content could be discovered from it.

 

Quote

And a basic guiding principle is that a motivated consumer can easily create overlaps but no one can separate them, so it's better to provide the cleaner endings. There are times when the overlap is essential (in 45 years I've never heard anyone ask about having "Ben's Death" and "TIE Fighter Attack" separated - they are two cues!) and times when other factors have to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

 

Quote

Because it's an example of a cue that builds to something but separated from the cue that follows, it is an anticlimax. Or dare I say it's a downbeat ending. 

 

https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=28&threadID=146921&archive=0

[Jay 39,761]

In those posts he is not saying that there isn't a longer ending we've never heard, he just said it ends in an unresolved manor, so wouldn't be very enjoyable to (most) listeners

[ThePenitentMan1 1,064]

Good point, I stand corrected!

[Tallguy 4,568]

This get into my "to separate or to join" debate that I have with myself (especially when I consider The Empire Strikes Back).

 

There are tracks like Imperial Attack or this (Ben's Death) that are so clearly an uninterrupted piece that as cool as it would be to have the discrete elements there is just no reason to put them like that on an album.

 

Then there are the pieces that DO overlap in the film (several of the Hoth battle cues) but they make complete sense as discrete tracks. They are self contained ideas. Don't get me started about the Endor battle in Jedi. Strung together as one or three movements is just too big.

 

Then it gets trickier when one piece leads logically into another. Mouse Robot into More Rescue for example. Mouse Robot is left hanging, even if More Rescue stands very well on its own. The same can be said for Stand By / Approach the Target.

 

One of the hardest ones to decide on for me is Losing a Hand and Hyperspace. Losing a Hand obviously plays right into Hyperspace and Hyperspace continues the ideas introduced in Losing a Hand. But boy, Hyperspace is one of the greatest self contained tracks!

 

Probably my more controversial choice is that in my playlist I have The Main Title tied in with The War and The Escape Hatch. Yes, it's almost nine minutes long. I go back and forth on this. On the one hand it sounds amazing. On the other hand Imperial Attack is on of the greatest tracks in all the Star Wars films by itself.

 

OTOH, when I see SUPER DOOPER DELUXE (for SERIOUS collectors ONLY) sets like Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band or Abbey Road where there are discrete ELEMENTS presented as separate tracks, it could be nice to see something like that for arguably one of the most influential film scores of all time.

 

Mike gave us The Sound of Music in pretty much the same way, didn't he? I guess at this point I'm not just dreaming, I'm full on hallucinating!

[stravinsky 217]

My dream is that any future release of the entire Star Wars Music Canon would have every single cue separated. It would be just a new listening experience for me with such familiar Music. I'm not holding my breath though. 

[Holko 10,401]

The new LLL Wrath of Khan set has Eels of Ceti Alpha V and Kirk in Space Shuttle combined as they were intended to be in the disc 1 main program, but also separately as bonus tracks on disc 2 (I guess because the former cue has one of the most earpiercing sections ever heard, so this allows someone to remove it but keep the latter cue if it annoys them too much). I definitely prefer every cue that was intended to be combined and feels right combined to be combined in the main programs (and combine them myself in my edits if they're not), but they could also be included in a super deluxe edition's latter discs separately as an interesting bonus or something.

[Tallguy 4,568]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

The new LLL Wrath of Khan set has Eels of Ceti Alpha V and Kirk in Space Shuttle combined as they were intended to be in the disc 1 main program, but also separately as bonus tracks on disc 2 (I guess because the former cue has one of the most earpiercing sections ever heard, so this allows someone to remove it but keep the latter cue if it annoys them too much). I definitely prefer every cue that was intended to be combined and feels right combined to be combined in the main programs (and combine them myself in my edits if they're not), but they could also be included in a super deluxe edition's latter discs separately as an interesting bonus or something.

 

This is the way. Except for Hoth and Endor. Those should still be split up.

 

I guess it goes to what is "Intend to be combined." Speaking of Star Trek (often) it kind of blows my mind that The Klingons is all one track when Spacedock is such a standalone (and standout) cue.

[Cameron007 72]

I would want "The Princess Appears" to be separate from "Lost R2", which has never been done on CD before. Additionally, I would want "The Last Battle" and "Approaching the Target" to be separate.

[Tallguy 4,568]

22 minutes ago, Cameron007 said:

I would want "The Princess Appears" to be separate from "Lost R2", which has never been done on CD before. Additionally, I would want "The Last Battle" and "Approaching the Target" to be separate.

 

These are reasonable and correct opinions. At least on the '97 there is no crossfade.

[Brando 2,181]

Those are OST edits right? If so I don’t think they’d be edited together on an expansion. I don’t think I’ve listened to the OT OST presentations all the way thru but I did one time click on “The Last Battle” on YouTube and was annoyed when most of the Death Star attack music was missing.

[Doo_liss 6,639]

1 minute ago, Brando said:

Those are OST edits right? If so I don’t think they’d be edited together on an expansion. I don’t think I’ve listened to the OT OST presentations all the way thru but I did one time click on “The Last Battle” on YouTube and was annoyed when most of the Death Star attack music was missing.

The Last Battle is the Death Star battle music, Approaching the Target, is when the X-Wings take off from Yavin.

[Brando 2,181]

2 minutes ago, Doo_liss said:

The Last Battle is the Death Star battle music, Approaching the Target, is when the X-Wings take off from Yavin.

I should’ve said the space battle sections, that’s what I meant

[Doo_liss 6,639]

5 minutes ago, Brando said:

I should’ve said the space battle sections, that’s what I meant

I was wrong, Approaching the Target is 1:11-4:33 of the 97 set.

 

Last Battle would possibly be 4:33-End.

[Cameron007 72]

3 hours ago, Brando said:

Those are OST edits right? If so I don’t think they’d be edited together on an expansion. I don’t think I’ve listened to the OT OST presentations all the way thru but I did one time click on “The Last Battle” on YouTube and was annoyed when most of the Death Star attack music was missing.

 

No, they are still combined on the 97 release, though with a longer gap between them. Also, most of the Yavin stuff wasn't missing? Only the "Standing By" cue.

[Brando 2,181]

I misremembered. I don't listen to the OST presentations so I'm not familiar with which cues are used versus not used.

[enderdrag64 913]

Apologies for the late post this week 

 

#1.34 SW (1977) - 10m2 Here They Come (Wook link)

Spoiler

Hello and welcome to this week's installment of Cue by Cue.

 

Today we're going to be listening to 10m2 Here They Come. 

 

This cue is 76 bars long and was orchestrated by Herbert Spencer.

 

Here's what the top of the conductor's score looks like:

 

Now let's listen to the cue together:

 

At 0:00 the cue begins, immediately following the build-up from 10m1 Ben's Death. As the TIE fighters split, a staccato rhythm starts that will carry through the entire cue. This rhythm was written specifically for this cue, and was intended as a development on the Rebel theme - however it has since been quoted in several future scores enough times that it could probably qualify as its own mini theme.

 

The dogfight rhythm leads into the first statement of the Rebel theme at 0:09, which continues through 0:16. 

 

More dogfight rhythm, and then more Rebel theme at 0:21. This time instead of ending after two statements, the first statement repeats three times, building in intensity for the third at 0:31. This helps to build tension, right as Han says "You hear me baby? hold together". The rebel theme statement ends at 0:38.

More rhythm, which builds into some celebratory music around 0:54-0:57 as Han and then Luke both destroy a TIE each.

 

As the celebratory strings continue we get more Rebel theme around 1:01.

 

Some transitionary brass around 1:08, and then we get our final and most intense dogfight rhythm from 1:11 as Han and Luke both take on the last two TIEs.

 

Some ascending brass begins around 1:19, which interestingly enough leads into the Death Star theme at 1:26 for the last TIE fighter exploding. You would think that defeating the TIE fighters would result in some celebration music, perhaps a happy Rebel theme or Luke/Ben's theme, I think it's very interesting that Williams chose to use a villain theme for this moment instead.

 

Shortly after the death star theme there's a percussion crash at 1:31, followed by a timpani roll, and the cue fades out ...

 

 

This cue was recorded on March 11, 1977, the fifth day of the recording sessions. It was the fourth cue recorded that day. Three takes were recorded, numbered 95-97. According to the 1997 take log, the performance edit used takes 95 and 97.

 

This cue has been officially released on four different albums:

1) In 1977 on 20th Century Records' OST album

2) In 1993 on Arista Records' 4-CD Anthology box set

3) In 1997 on RCA Victor's 2-CD Special Edition set

4) In 2018 on Walt Disney Records' Remastered album (remastered OST rebuilt from scratch from the session masters)

 

More specifically, 10m1 Ben's Death can be heard:

From 2:03-end of track 5 "Ben's Death and TIE Fighter Attack" on the 1977/2018 albums

From 2:03-end of disc 1 track 13 "Ben's Death/TIE Fighter Attack" on the 1993 album

From 2:03-end of disc 2 track 9 "Ben's Death/TIE Fighter Attack" on the 1997 album.

 

All sets have the clean ending, but none of them have a clean opening. The 1977 set is of course a remix, and should be avoided. The 1997 set is brickwalled. All sets appear to have the correct takes.

 

For the video above, I used the 2018 set with a faked clean opening.

 

That's all I have for today, thanks for reading! Feel free to leave any comments or questions.

 

Next week we'll be listening to 11m1 Stand By. See you then!

 

[Tallguy 4,568]

I have a sinking feeling when I realize that I'm actually starting to associate the dizzy, shimmering bit at 0:58 more with Horner's lift for Battle Beyond the Stars.

 

When I was a kid we had three scenes on video tape (not VHS, not even Beta: something called VX! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VX_(videocassette_format) ) taped off of the People's Choice Awards from 1978: Artoo and Threepio arguing in the desert, the Flacon blasting it's way out of Mos Eisley, and this scene. We watched those three scenes pretty much on a loop! (In black and white!) So these were the first scenes where we learned exactly how the music synced up with the film.

 

We also acted out Blasting Off and TIE Fighter Attack to the soundtrack over and over and over. The best part was running down the hall and shouting "Chewie get us out of here!"

 

So yeah, this cue is a big deal to me.

[enderdrag64 913]

Cue by Cue: The Music of John Williams - #1.33.5 10m1 Ben's Death Addendum:

Spoiler

One thing I forgot to mention in the post proper:
 

This is another one of those rare cues from this score to have had official sheet music published! The John Williams concert suite "The Battle" includes an excerpt of this cue as bars 40-72 of the suite, equivalent to bars 1-33 of the original cue.
 

Unfortunately this suite is no longer available, this is another one of those suites that was only made available to orchestras many years ago. You can still listen to recordings of it on youtube though (the part relevant to this cue is 1:22-2:24):

 

 

Cue by Cue: The Music of John Williams - #1.34.5 10m2 Here They Come Addendum:

Spoiler

One thing I forgot to mention in the post proper:
 

This is another one of those rare cues from this score to have had official sheet music published! The John Williams concert suite "Here They Come" is based off of this cue, with a revised opening and outro.

Bars 1-3 of the suite (0:00-0:04 in the recording below) are unique
Bars 4-23 of the suite (0:04-0:28 below) are equivalent to bars 48-68 of the original cue
Bars 23-96 of the suite (0:28-1:58 below) are equivalent to bars 1-74 of the original cue

Bars 97-99 of the suite (1:58-end in the recording below) are unique
 

This suite is officially available for purchase from Hal Leonard as part of "Music from the Star Wars Saga" under the "John Williams Signature Edition Orchestra" series. Here's a recording of the concert piece:

 

 

Cue by Cue: The Music of John Williams - #1.35 11m1 Stand By (Wook link)

Spoiler

Today we're going to be listening to 11m1 Stand By, the first of the Battle of Yavin cues.

 

This cue is 52 bars long and was orchestrated by Herbert Spencer.

 

Here's what the top of the conductor's score looks like:

 

As you can see, this cue got rebalanced from 10m3-11m1 to just 11m1, I'm not really sure why - perhaps some of the shuffling earlier in the score resulted in it no longer being partially in the tenth reel. 

 

One other interesting note regarding the cue's title: You may be wondering why it was originally "Stand By" instead of "Standing By", even though all the characters say the latter in the film. Initially I assumed this might have been a Williams mistake, but interestingly in the shooting script the original dialogue for this scene has Red Leader telling all the fighters to stand by before putting the S-Foils in attack position, that's why everyone replies "standing by". The "All wings report in" dialogue was from several scenes later in the script, after Gold Leader dies, Red Leader would've asked all remaining wings to report in. 

I don't believe that Williams scored this initial version, because the Battle of Yavin scenes were largely completed by Marcia Lucas relatively early in editing, and obviously the cue wouldn't sync at all with the scripted version of the scene. However, the scene did still undergo smaller changes (as we'll see later), and it may be possible that the original "Stand by" line was still in the scene during the spotting session and that's how the cue ended up being named that. 

 

With that out of the way, let's listen to the cue together:

 

At 0:00 the cue begins with sweeping strings as the Rebel scout looks on at the X-Wings taking off in the far distance. 

 

Then at 0:05 we get some militaristic-sounding rhythmic staccato strings for Leia entering the war room. At 0:10 an oboe joins in, followed shortly after by a bassoon. 

 

This transitions into the harsh staccato brass at 0:18, as we finally see the rebel fighters on their approach to the Death Star. 

 

This mellows out a bit for the shot change at 0:25, and continues as the fighters report in one by one. We still get aggressive sounding drums, but the accompanying woodwinds are relatively calm. 

 

At 0:39 the rhythm changes, getting a little faster, and then at 0:44 we get some woodwinds for the S-Foils opening. 

 

At 0:47 we get some sudden low strings for Porkins' cockpit shaking - I always loved this part, it's a perfect musical representation of "we're passing through the magnetic field!"

 

Then some ascending build-up starts at 0:51 as the fighters turn their deflectors on, before we get a Death Star theme appearance at 0:54, immediately followed by some shrieking strings. "Look at the size of that thing!"

 

Then Red Leader tells him to quiet down and get ready for the attack, as the music refocuses into one final rhythmic drive on the strings starting at 0:59. At 1:07, a held note, which leads into a swell and then a crash at 1:12 for the dive. This is intended to segue directly into the next cue...

 

 

In the final film this cue is mostly used as intended, however there is a 3 second loop at 1:06. I'm not 100% certain what shots this loop was added for, but for the video above I deleted the shots of Gold Leader telling Red Leader that they're starting for the target shaft, both because it seemed to be the least important for the continuity of the sequence, as well as that it was the exact length of the loop and that the conversation was obviously created editorially (particularly Red Leader's reply which was taken from a completely different part of the script - it's heard as a voiceover in Luke's cockpit and the dialogue cuts off mid-sentence "I copy Gold Leader-"). Additionally, whatever the last minute addition was it had to be between the obvious sync marks at 0:54 and 1:08, and this was the best candidate. 

 

 

This cue was recorded on March 12, 1977, the sixth day of the recording sessions. It was the fifth cue recorded that day. Eight takes were recorded, numbered 155-162. According to the 1997 take log, the performance edit used just take 162.

 

 

This cue has been officially released on two different albums:

2) In 1993 on Arista Records' 4-CD Anthology box set

3) In 1997 on RCA Victor's 2-CD Special Edition set

 

More specifically, 11m1 Stand By can be heard:

From 0:00-end of disc 4 track 15 "Standing By" on the 1993 album

From 0:00-1:11 of disc 2 track 10 "The Battle of Yavin (Launch From The Fourth Moon/X-Wings Draw Fire/Use The Force)" on the 1997 album.

 

Both sets have a clean opening, but only the 1993 set has the clean ending. The 1997 set is brickwalled. Unfortunately, both sets use the exact same wrong takes. The majority of the cue uses completely different takes in the film.

 

For the video above, I used the film audio with the unreleased correct takes from 0:00-1:02, but 1:02-end is from the 1993 set with the clean ending. This section of the 1993 set uses the same takes as the film.

 

That's all I have for today, thanks for reading! Feel free to leave any comments or questions.

 

Next week we'll be listening to 11m2 Rev. Approaching the Target. See you then!

 

[ThePenitentMan1 1,064]

I had no idea that this whole time, this cue was the wrong take on BOTH albums!

 

(EDIT: By the way, I think there's one more loop you left in from 0:59-1:02.)

[enderdrag64 913]

2 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

EDIT: By the way, I think there's one more loop you left in from 0:59-1:02.)

Comparing to the officially released tracks my edit is slightly longer yes, I considered that could be a loop as well - but I noticed the waveforms don't match at all between the two halves - if it was truly looped I would be able to splice them. 

 

My guess is that what happened is pretty similar to what we looked at earlier with 3m4-4m1 The Sandman Attacks, where the splice points between takes was different on different sets; I think that the section you pointed out is the boundary point between two takes and that's why the notes that seem to be repeated don't line up. Does this constitute a loop? Maybe? I left it in because I considered it to be part of the film's performance edit

[Tallguy 4,568]

Thank you for not using the SE. The shot at 0:25 is so much better than the SE shot.

 

If we ever get The Ultimate Star Wars I would very much like to have this and the next cue combined. Although I've gotten a little wobbly on this because  even the FILM edit is horrible! (And going by the mono mix on 4K77 it apparently always has been. Movie magic - what we don't notice we don't notice.)

 

Say what you want about the LP edits, but going from the end of Ben Creeps Around into Approaching the target is brilliant.

 

 

[ThePenitentMan1 1,064]

On 04/11/2024 at 6:21 AM, Tallguy said:

Thank you for not using the SE. The shot at 0:25 is so much better than the SE shot.

 

If we ever get The Ultimate Star Wars I would very much like to have this and the next cue combined. Although I've gotten a little wobbly on this because  even the FILM edit is horrible! (And going by the mono mix on 4K77 it apparently always has been. Movie magic - what we don't notice we don't notice.)

 

My two cents: combine them in the main program, split them in the bonus section.

 

This would also allow the opportunity for both the film take edit and Take 126 of Standing By to be included, with Approaching The Target discrete in the bonus section as well, which actually segues quite nicely into the alternate for The Throne Room/End Title.

 

Same for The Princess Appears, for which both the correct film take and the remarkably persistent alternate take are worthy of inclusion, in my opinion.

[Jay 39,761]

On 03/11/2024 at 1:51 PM, enderdrag64 said:

More specifically, 10m1 Ben's Death can be heard:

 

Wrong cue title!

Keep up the great work, love reading these!

[ThePenitentMan1 1,064]

While we're waiting for the next post, I'll go ahead and showcase my edit that prunes the film edit of Standing By down to the intended length of the composition, reining in the very obvious edits between takes.

 

In addition, this clip also shows the transition I use into Approaching The Target; I haven't decided yet if I like the slightly longer 1997 RCA transition better or not.

 

 

 

[Tallguy 4,568]

4 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

While we're waiting for the next post, I'll go ahead and showcase my edit that prunes the film edit of Standing By down to the intended length of the composition, reining in the very obvious edits between takes.

 

In addition, this clip also shows the transition I use into Approaching The Target; I haven't decided yet if I like the slightly longer 1997 RCA transition better or not.

 

 

 

 

That's perfect. I don't know how it fits with the film but it certainly respects the rhythm of the performance. That shouldn't be so hard, eh?

 

So I just went and listened to the 1977 stereo mix, the mono mix (THE BEST MIX), and the 1985 mix. The worst one regarding this transition is my beloved mono mix. Although the isolated stems sound terrible too. The Disney+ version doesn't sound great either.

 

What a weird thing to have so many edits of!

[ThePenitentMan1 1,064]

9 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

That's perfect. I don't know how it fits with the film but it certainly respects the rhythm of the performance. That shouldn't be so hard, eh?

 

So I just went and listened to the 1977 stereo mix, the mono mix (THE BEST MIX), and the 1985 mix. The worst one regarding this transition is my beloved mono mix. Although the isolated stems sound terrible too. The Disney+ version doesn't sound great either.

 

What a weird thing to have so many edits of!

 

Thank you!

 

I would think all of the film mixes would've used the same music stem, and thus all have the exact same edits, wouldn't they?

[Holko 10,401]

58 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

I would think all of the film mixes would've used the same music stem, and thus all have the exact same edits, wouldn't they?

I know for example the kinda unfinished 1977 stereo has misaligned channels for TIE Fighter Attack and it doesn't have the Cantina music audibly outside so no it's not all the exact same.

[Doo_liss 6,639]

Music stem?

[ThePenitentMan1 1,064]

 

14 hours ago, Doo_liss said:

Music stem?

 

In filmmaking, the dialogue, sound effects and music each get their own track when they're dubbed into the film.  This is so that the filmmakers can adjust the volume of each as needed to suit the picture.

 

17 hours ago, Holko said:

I know for example the kinda unfinished 1977 stereo has misaligned channels for TIE Fighter Attack and it doesn't have the Cantina music audibly outside so no it's not all the exact same.

 

In those examples I think they were mixing or editing intentional changes into the otherwise unedited original music stem.  I can't imagine why you'd, for instance, recreate the choppy film edit of Standing By the same exact way every time you wanted to make a new mix of the music stem instead of just by-and-large basing the new music stem on the prior version if it's good enough.

 

Because then, why not just edit the cue in a different way that both sounds more pleasing and is easier to recreate for next time?  Surely you don't actually need that many loops to make this cue fit the footage!  And what if you wind up using a different take than you used last time?

[Holko 10,401]

When they were rebuilding Jaws for a new mix, they decided to use the wrong take for Man Against Beast because the correct one was deemed damaged beyond repair until Mike came a few years later and fixed it for the Intrada. So these things definitely happen.

[Doo_liss 6,639]

6 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

 

In filmmaking, the dialogue, sound effects and music each get their own track when they're dubbed into the film.  This is so that the filmmakers can adjust the volume of each as needed to suit the picture.

 

 

In those examples I think they were mixing or editing intentional changes into the otherwise unedited original music stem.  I can't imagine why you'd, for instance, recreate the choppy film edit of Standing By the same exact way every time you wanted to make a new mix of the music stem instead of just by-and-large basing the new music stem on the prior version if it's good enough.

 

Because then, why not just edit the cue in a different way that both sounds more pleasing and is easier to recreate for next time?  Surely you don't actually need that many loops to make this cue fit the footage!  And what if you wind up using a different take than you used last time?

Oh I know what a music stem is, I just was wondering when SW had a music stem out there...

[ThePenitentMan1 1,064]

4 hours ago, Doo_liss said:

Oh I know what a music stem is, I just was wondering when SW had a music stem out there...

 

I never said there was.  I was talking about the production using the music stem to create a new mix for the 1977 mono and 1985 stereo tracks.

[enderdrag64 913]

#1.36 SW (1977) - 11m2R Approaching the Target (Wook link)

Spoiler

Hello and welcome to this week's installment of Cue by Cue. Apologies for not posting last week, but I had a lot to write for this cue and I wanted to make sure it would be comprehensive.

 

Today we're going to be listening to 11m2 Rev. Approaching the Target, the middle of the Battle of Yavin cues, and also my favorite of the three. This is a revision of an earlier cue, 11m2 Approaching the Target, which went unrecorded.

 

Both versions were orchestrated by Arthur Morton. The original is 105 bars long and the revision is 113 bars long.

 

One small note about the orchestrator for this cue: Professor Frank Lehman's thematic document claims that Angela Morley also worked on this cue, presumably implying that she worked on the revisions, however her name is written nowhere on the sheet music and I couldn't find any conclusive evidence that she worked on it. The handwriting on the revisions does look plausibly different than Arthur Morton's, but it doesn't look like what I've seen of Angela Morley's work.

 

Here are the tops of the conductor's scores of both versions:

 

As you can see in the helpful summary in the top right of the revised conductor's score, the following changes were made in the revision:

 

 - bar 22 was replaced with bar N22

 - bars 43 and 44 were replaced with new bars N43, N44, 44A, 44B, 44C

 - new bar 57A was added between bars 57 and 58

 - new bars 77A, 77B, 77C, 77D were added between bars 77 and 78

 - bar 90 was replaced by bar N90

 

I'll go into more detail on these changes later.

 

Now, let's listen to the revised cue together:

 

At 0:00 the cue opens with an abbreviated brass statement of the Force theme, flowing straight into exciting chaotic brass action music at 0:06 for the X-Wings dodging the laser fire.

 

At 0:15 a rhythm starts - Frank Lehman's thematic document calls this the "Heroic Descending Tetrachords", but @Doo_liss's thematic project refers to this by the much more memorable name "Rolling Thunder".

 

Then at 0:18 it is joined by an action variant of the Force theme, climaxing at 0:31 after the POV shot of Luke shooting the Death Star surface.

This leads into some more chaotic brass, which ascends to a peak at 0:38 as the X-Wings fly past the camera.

 

We see chaos in the hallway as stormtroopers start to mobilize, and get a low woodwinds Imperial Theme for the officer seeking instructions from Vader. At 0:44 it is accompanied by a brief return of the rhythm that previously ended 9m2 Ben Creeps Around. 

 

At 0:51, a return to the exciting, chaotic brass as we return to the battle. This doesn't score the action that closely, although there are a few clear sync points: we get some brass figures for the explosions at 1:03 and 1:04, and the intercutting of the lasers with Porkins' cockpit from 1:07 to 1:10. 

 

Some more ascending brass at 1:11. climaxing as Porkins dies at 1:14. It's interesting that this isn't scored more somberly, instead we cut immediately to hesitant woodwinds at 1:15 to score the countdown timer, reminiscent of the hesitant woodwinds from 6m5 New The Destruction of Alderon. 

 

The horns start to build some excitement on the Tarkin shot at 1:19, followed by a blast of ascending brass at 1:21 as we return to Luke's X-Wing. 

 

Another round of brass at 1:25 as Luke shoots some gunners, and then a simplified Rolling Thunder at 1:36 as a rebel operator calls in to say that more fighters are arriving. 

 

Tension slowly builds, and then a sudden brass figure at 1:45 as we finally see the new group. This is probably one of the most memorable sections of the entire cue for me, it shows the brilliance of Williams' original action cue melody writing.

 

From 1:49 to 1:57, some coordinated brass builds up as John D gets killed by a TIE Fighter. Some additional ascending brass at 1:57 for Luke's "You've picked one up, watch it!"

 

Then some aggressively nervous strings as Biggs is pursued, which build in intensity as Luke follows to try and save him. Some ascending strings begin at 2:13, soon joined by brass, peaking after the target is locked and destroyed.

 

 This leads into more chaotic brass, which scores Vader grabbing some pilots to come with him. 

 

A short brass stinger at 2:26 for the shot of the war room, and then some Force theme starts at 2:29 as Luke is chased by a TIE Fighter. 

 

It builds in desperation once Luke gets shot at 2:40, with some percussion for the war room shots at 2:45, and an increase in pitch at 2:50. Finally it ends at 3:06 once Wedge destroys the TIE Fighter. 

 

Some repeating brass figures at 3:06 as the action cools down, ending with one final held note at 3:12. Thus, the cue fades.....

 

 

The revised cue is used exactly as intended in the final cut - however there is evidence that the original cue scored a very different cut. In fact, most of the revisions appear to have been made due to changing visuals.

 

 - The first change, replacing Bar 22 with Bar N22 simply shortened the length of the two notes at 0:36-0:38. Given that the revised syncs exactly with the footage in the final cut, I can only assume that this flyby shot was originally shorter/different.

 - The second change, the replacement of Bars 43 and 44 with five new bars, covers the addition of the countdown shot from 1:15-1:19. The original cue skipped the woodwinds entirely, and went straight into the rhythm that starts on the Tarkin shot in the final cut, but played on all instrument groups instead of just horns. It doesn't make much sense to me that the Tarkin shot would be here and not the countdown shot, but I suppose it's possible. If not, it's possible that that rhythm was originally meant to score a completely different shot that got replaced by the countdown+Tarkin shot. 

 - The third change, the addition of new Bar 57A, covers the strings over the Biggs shot from 1:43-1:45. Presumably this shot wasn't in the scored rough cut.

 - The fourth change, the addition of four bars between Bar 77 and 78, covers the exciting music from 2:19 to 2:25 as Vader grabs some pilots. Presumably, this shot was also not here during the originally scored rough cut. I do almost wonder if the shot here in the final cut is also different than the one Williams scored when the revision was written, because the music doesn't quite match the action on screen, it moreso matches what I'd expect from space battle footage. 

 - The fifth and last change, the replacement of Bar 90 with Bar N90, covers the music from 2:43 to 2:46. Presumably the war room insert footage was not here in the original cut, although the added music slightly precedes the new footage, so perhaps some other shots were shuffled around too.

If you want to listen to the unrevised cue, @ThePenitentMan1 did an excellent synth mockup of the unrecorded original:

 

 

 

 

This cue was recorded on March 11, 1977, the fifth day of the recording sessions. It was the first cue recorded that day. Four takes were recorded, numbered 83-86. According to the 1997 take log, the performance edit used takes 85 and 86.

 

This cue has been officially released on four different albums:

1) In 1977 on 20th Century Records' OST album

2) In 1993 on Arista Records' 4-CD Anthology box set

3) In 1997 on RCA Victor's 2-CD Special Edition set

4) In 2018 on Walt Disney Records' Remastered album (remastered OST rebuilt from scratch from the session masters)

 

More specifically, 11m2 Rev. Approaching the Target can be heard:

From 4:29-7:38 of track 15 "The Last Battle" on the 1977/2018 albums

From 4:29-7:42 of disc 1 track 15 "The Last Battle" on the 1993 album

From 1:11-4:43 of disc 2 track 10 "The Battle of Yavin (Launch From The Fourth Moon/X-Wings Draw Fire/Use The Force)" on the 1997 album.

 

Every set but the 1997 has a mostly clean opening, technically it includes some quiet woodwinds from the end of 9m2 Ben Creeps Around but it's trivial to remove with Audacity's noise reduction feature. Only the 1997 features most of the ending, but it's still cut off by the next cue, 12m1 The Last Battle. The 2018 and 1997 sets both have the correct film takes, but the 1993 set has some incorrect takes at a couple points. The 1997 set is also brickwalled.

 

For my edit above, I primarily used the 2018 set (with that noise reduction trick for the opening), and I used the film audio for the clean ending with the long fadeout. 

 

 

The last thing to note about this cue is that it's one of those rare cues with official sheet music available. The John Williams concert suite "The Battle" includes an excerpt of this cue as bars 72-102 of the suite, equivalent to bars 51-77D of the original cue.

 

Unfortunately this suite is no longer available, this is another one of those suites that was only made available to orchestras many years ago. You can still listen to recordings of it on youtube though (the part relevant to this cue is 2:24-3:10):

 

 

 

That's all I have for today, thanks for reading! Feel free to leave any comments or questions. 

 

Next week we'll be listening to 12m1 The Last Battle. See you then!

 

[Doo_liss 6,639]

Rolling Thunder was actually coined by David W Collins.

[Groovygoth666 1,045]

15 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

Presumably the war room insert footage was not here in the original cut, although the added music slightly precedes the new footage, so perhaps some other shots were shuffled around too.

Some of the war room shots are mirrored and reused (note Threepio moving from Leia's right side to her left with the dent on his head also switching sides). Perhaps these additional repeated shots were added and that's part of the need for new music? 

[enderdrag64 913]

2 minutes ago, Doo_liss said:

Rolling Thunder was actually coined by David W Collins.

Oh was that in Star Wars Oxygen? It's been a little while since I listened to that

[Doo_liss 6,639]

55 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

Oh was that in Star Wars Oxygen? It's been a little while since I listened to that

Yes, and possibly The Soundtrack Show.

[Tallguy 4,568]

Excellent as always.

 

I was amazed to discover a few years ago when my son and I were talking about the Star Wars themes that apart from the Rolling Thunder motif (which is used closely with Luke's theme in the end titles) this section is built entirely on Ben's theme and the Imperial theme. Luke's theme is (leaving out Rolling Thunder) nowhere to be found! Neither is the Rebel Spaceship theme!

 

Is that rolling motif used in any of the other films other than the credits? (It's early, nothing is coming to mind from memory, and I'm feeling too lazy to check.)

 

Interesting that Vader's entry into the battle is unscored. His appearance at the beginning of his and Ben's duel is also largely unscored as well. Both are played over the echoes of the end of a big music cue. Hmmm.

 

8 hours ago, enderdrag64 said:

Tension slowly builds, and then a sudden brass figure at 1:45 as we finally see the new group. This is probably one of the most memorable sections of the entire cue for me, it shows the brilliance of Williams' original action cue melody writing.

 

3:32

 

The fist few seconds of this...

 

[kingpiranha 31]

9 hours ago, enderdrag64 said:

Both versions were orchestrated by Arthur Morton.

I'm pretty sure that the orchestrated revision score was actually done by Herbert Spencer. 

When looking through the marked final/studio used score one can see that page 11A and 19B (both marked as "11-2 Revised" on top of the page) are clearly done in Herb Spencer's handwriting.

So I believe Herb Spencer did the revision score to this cue, and then it was editied (and partially transcribed) together with Arthur Morton's original orchestrated score by copyist Ernie Lockett. 

[Doo_liss 6,639]

4 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Excellent as always.

 

I was amazed to discover a few years ago when my son and I were talking about the Star Wars themes that apart from the Rolling Thunder motif (which is used closely with Luke's theme in the end titles) this section is built entirely on Ben's theme and the Imperial theme. Luke's theme is (leaving out Rolling Thunder) nowhere to be found! Neither is the Rebel Spaceship theme!

 

Is that rolling motif used in any of the other films other than the credits? (It's early, nothing is coming to mind from memory, and I'm feeling too lazy to check)

 

 

It's in Chasing Rockets

[Tallguy 4,568]

On 18/11/2024 at 10:44 AM, Doo_liss said:

It's in Chasing Rockets

 

Really? Where at?

[Doo_liss 6,639]

10 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

Really? Where at?

2:07 of Superman Rescued and Chasing Rockets from the LLL.

2:51

 

 

[Tallguy 4,568]

Oh! You're talking about "rolling thunder", not the "sudden brass figure at 1:45 as we finally see the new group".

 

Whew! I was thinking "How have I missed that for all these years?"

[Doo_liss 6,639]

@Tallguy also, Rebel Fanfare does appear after the death star goes boom

And Luke's theme shows up after Biggs dies, and right after Luke switches off his computer, and right before the Timpani solo, and when Han saves the day.

[Holko 10,401]

Which of those moments is in this cue, or "this section"?

[Doo_liss 6,639]

All of them.

 

And none of them.

[Tallguy 4,568]

Yeah, not to jump ahead, but once everyone else is dead except Luke (and Wedge has to leave) THEN we get Luke's theme back. And Williams plays the Rebel Fanfare over Vader escaping just to further confuse people into thinking it's a bad guy theme.