Rick Beato makes a case for JW as “the most well-known musical artist in history”

[BrotherSound 2,573]

YouTube personality Rick Beato, who usually discusses music in a pop and rock vein, has just released a video where he argues that John Williams is the most influential well-known musical artist in history:

 

 

[Erik Woods 812]

That's not what he said. He said John Williams is the most well-known musical artist in history. I mean, it's right there in the title of the video.

 

-Erik-

[Bryant Burnette 771]

You'd have to work real hard to ever even get close to convincing me that more people know who John Williams is than know who Elvis was.  And after all that work, I'm going to just blink at you and say no.

[GerateWohl 6,194]

 

3 hours ago, Bryant Burnette said:

You'd have to work real hard to ever even get close to convincing me that more people know who John Williams is than know who Elvis was. 

That's not what he said. He says Williams' most famous tunes are more well known today than Elvis' most famous tunes. And that may be correct.

The only evidence, that he gives for his claim is, that his eleven year old daughter knows these tunes. And if she knows them, then everyone in the world knows them.

 

[Jurassic Shark 15,564]

15 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

 

That's not what he said. He says Williams' most famous tunes are more well known today than Elvis most famous tunes. And that may be correct.

The only evidence, that he gives for his claim is, that his eleven year old daughter knows these tunes. And if she know them, then everyone in the world knows them.

 

As spoken by a real non-scientist.

[BB-8 5,555]

8 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

YouTube personality Rick Beato, who usually discusses music in a pop and rock vein, has just released a video where he argues that John Williams is the most influential musical artist in history:

 

 

I wish it were true. Unfortunately, Beatles and ABBA are probably more widely known in pop culture.

[Steve 676]

12 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

I wish it were true. Unfortunately, Beatles and ABBA are probably more widely known in pop culture.

Yes, their names, but not their melodies. That's what Rick is saying. A great percentage of the world population has heard a Williams melody or knows a melody he has written.

[pete 1,249]

9 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

YouTube personality Rick Beato, who usually discusses music in a pop and rock vein,

 

 

There's quite a lot of film music related videos on his channel. He did a long interview with Thomas Newman, and there is an ET analysis on there somewhere as well as as some Bernard Herrmann analysis. I'd love for Williams to agree to an interview... or do did what Sting did: ask Rick if he would like to interview him.

[Jurassic Shark 15,564]

Yeah, like the themes from BttF and RH:PoT

[Tallguy 6,182]

I was going to object, based on having a conversation with a group of people who had no idea who Williams was, or that the same person wrote Jaws, E.T., Star Wars, or that there even WAS a person who wrote Jaws, E.T., Star Wars.

 

But if you just go by "Do you know this piece of music (regardless who wrote it)?" Well... JTW might be in the running.

 

Edit: Nice chance for Rick to geek out about the finale to E.T. again. I'm with you!

[BB-8 5,555]

3 hours ago, Steve said:

Yes, their names, but not their melodies. That's what Rick is saying. A great percentage of the world population has heard a Williams melody or knows a melody he has written.

They have no proper melodies except Yesterday and Hey Jude.

[Edmilson 10,995]

Since John Williams is not a pop star, most people won't know who he is (his name, appearance, etc), unlike Beyoncé, Justin Bieber, Rihanna, Taylor Swift...

 

But his music is easily recognizable because most people watched at least one of his movies. So the "common folk" may not know the name John Williams, or even that the person who did the Star Wars theme is the same guy who did Jurassic Park's and Harry Potter's... But they sure as hell know his music.

[Tallguy 6,182]

3 hours ago, BB-8 said:

I wish it were true. Unfortunately, Beatles and ABBA are probably more widely known in pop culture.

 

10 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

They have no proper melodies except Yesterday and Hey Jude.

 

Is this some esoteric definition of melody? Here Comes the Sun has no melody? Dancing Queen has no melody?

 

One of the things that tips the scales is that the films that Williams is associated with have an international recognition that probably even The Beatles do not.

 

 

[BB-8 5,555]

John Lennon vs. John Williams vs. Elton John

 

It's hard to evaluate something for the whole world which may seem apparent at home.

[mrbellamy 7,623]

5 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

They have no proper melodies except Yesterday and Hey Jude.

 

Ridiculous

 

I have no idea where John Williams stacks up in the entirety of musical history. The main thing I am pretty convinced of is that he will be remembered as one of a handful of significant musical figures of the 20th century (primarily), even more so talking about composers not songwriters, and even more so in specifically the latter quarter of the 20th century. 

[Holko 11,673]

4 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

 

But his music is easily recognizable because most people watched at least one of his movies.

Him having scored some of the biggest most popular movies/franchises certainly helps a lot but it's easily recogniseable because he's a great composer. How many non-JW big movies are there whose scores most people wouldn't recognise?

[BB-8 5,555]

1 minute ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Ridiculous

 

I have no idea where John Williams stacks up in the entirety of musical history. The main thing I am pretty convinced of is that he will be remembered as one of a handful of significant musical figures of the 20th century (primarily), even more so talking about composers not songwriters, and even more so in specifically the latter quarter of the 20th century. 

At any rate, JW has produced more memorable melodies than Lenny who can be reduced to West Side Story, the Mahler revival of the 50ies, and a bit of ecstatic conducting.

[Mr. Hooper 6,857]

1 minute ago, BB-8 said:

At any rate, JW has produced more memorable melodies than Lenny who can be reduced to West Side Story, the Mahler revival of the 50ies, and a bit of ecstatic conducting.

Nonsense. Find me a person who can't sing the Overture to 'Candide'.

[BB-8 5,555]

25 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

 

Is this some esoteric definition of melody? Here Comes the Sun has no melody? Dancing Queen has no melody?

 

One of the things that tips the scales is that the films that Williams is associated with have an international recognition that probably even The Beatles do not.

 

 

Well I personally cannot hum a single melody of Taylor Swift but she is apparently having quite a big impact worldwide.

 

As we speak, "The Sound of Glory" running in the background has reached Shostakovich's Festive Overture. 

 

The Russian Candide so to say.

 

26 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Since John Williams is not a pop star, most people won't know who he is (his name, appearance, etc), unlike Beyoncé, Justin Bieber, Rihanna, Taylor Swift...

 

But his music is easily recognizable because most people watched at least one of his movies. So the "common folk" may not know the name John Williams, or even that the person who did the Star Wars theme is the same guy who did Jurassic Park's and Harry Potter's... But they sure as hell know his music.

Exactly. 

[mrbellamy 7,623]

I think a lot of John Williams fans had the experience of being a fan of him before they even knew they were a fan. "Wait, he did that one? Oh wait he did that too? And that too?!" 

 

Incidentally that's also a big part of what made it fun for me when I was first really getting into The Beatles. 

[Thor 9,323]

This is a common cognitive disconnect/logical fallacy I see time and again, i.e. someone's popularity measured from your own personal experience, one's own little bubble ("my daughter loves this, so everybody loves it", "I like it, hence it's popular"). As if there is a need to confirm one's own bias by creating a common consensus. Assessing something's or someone's popularity requires a whole other set of research (both quantitative and qualitative). One can speculate and base it upon reasonable assumptions, that's fine, but it doesn't mean it's the facit.

 

I'm sure Rick Beato (who?) has his own solid arguments for why he thinks Williams is the "most well-known musical history in all of history", but I find the notion ludicrous and just that -- his own personal assessment.

[GerateWohl 6,194]

5 minutes ago, Thor said:

This is a common cognitive disconnect/logical fallacy I see time and again, i.e. someone's popularity measured from your own personal experience, one's own little bubble ("my daughter loves this, so everybody loves it", "I like it, hence it's popular"). As if there is a need to confirm one's own bias by creating a common consensus. 

There is a whole business branch on YouTube based on that.

[Thor 9,323]

1 minute ago, GerateWohl said:

There is a whole business branch on YouTube based on that.

 

I'm sure there is.

[BB-8 5,555]

Luckily, the important things in life, the things that really count, don't need to be measured and compared among each other.

[Mr. Hooper 6,857]

There's only one way to solve this: a JWFAN member from every country has to go out and play some of Williams' tunes for a random selection of 100 people, and report their findings here.

 

So who's game? 

[BB-8 5,555]

What shall we use as control?

 

A blank tape, Hans Zimmer, Morricone?

[King Mark 3,862]

Zimmer:

 

I still can't hum the "He's a Pirate " theme in my head after all these years

[Edmilson 10,995]

28 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

What shall we use as control?

 

A blank tape, Hans Zimmer, Morricone?

My Heart Will Go On.

[Mr. Hooper 6,857]

It's amusing that Williams himself seems surprised here by Beato's assertion...

 

 

[Bryant Burnette 771]

11 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

 

That's not what he said. He says Williams' most famous tunes are more well known today than Elvis' most famous tunes. And that may be correct.

The only evidence, that he gives for his claim is, that his eleven year old daughter knows these tunes. And if she knows them, then everyone in the world knows them.

 

 

I didn't watch the video, because the idea seemed silly.  My response was to the headline of the thread.

 

[Sunshine Reger 3,697]

He used to ride the wave of clickbait about JW and the Holst connection a few years back, didn't he?

 

Time to update his reputation with the community:

 

[mrbellamy 7,623]

4 hours ago, King Mark said:

Zimmer:

 

I still can't hum the "He's a Pirate " theme in my head after all these years

 

[pete 1,249]

He's just using his daughter's knowledge as an example. I think it just stands to reason. The most memorable of melodies that transend their films, and those films have been viewed by - in some cases billions. Williams basically said the same thing when he talks of how gratifying it is to have his music heard all around the world so soon after the music was written and performed, something obviously not possible in the past. 

 

 

[King Mark 3,862]

I think most people on earth know his music and hum the Star Wars theme, but can they name who he is and connect the dots that it's the same person who wrote all these iconic soundtracks? Probably not.

 

And not that many people  listen to his music on it's own like we do . 

[Marian Schedenig 10,833]

13 hours ago, pete said:

He's just using his daughter's knowledge as an example. I think it just stands to reason. The most memorable of melodies that transend their films, and those films have been viewed by - in some cases billions.

 

I think it's fascinating that it still works for the newest generations. Sure, "our" generation (from my POV - people in their 30s and 40s) grew up during the heyday of Williams's film career, when virtually every major film that came out had music by him (and if not, music influenced by him), and the box office records were filled with Williams scored films. Of course we were aware of him, in one way or another.

 

Surely he's less omnipresent for those who are the age now that we were back then - E.T. & Co. are "old" films; Star Wars has had revivals of varying success, but the latest versions of it aren't scored by him; Indiana Jones had two relatively unsuccessful revivals during the past two decades. Jurassic Park is still going, but apart from the theme, Williams isn't involved with it. Spielberg makes fewer films, and most of them aren't targeted at children and "young adults" as they were back in the day, and they're not all scored by Williams anymore, either. Sure, there's Harry Potter, but even for that it's been 20 years since Williams was actively involved.

 

The blockbuster world is permeated by Zimmer & Co, with very little resemblance to the classic scores by Williams or influence by him. If his music is still recognised today even by those who barely grew up with it, that seems to be proof of his music actively standing the test of time right now. It's like random people back in the 90s being aware of Bernard Herrmann.

[Mr. Hooper 6,857]

Japan has always had a love affair with John Williams, and for the roughly ten years that I lived there, the kids were introduced to him through the use of his music (e.g., Star Wars Main Title and Imperial March, and the main themes for Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Superman, and Jaws) as stock/library background music for TV variety shows.

[GerateWohl 6,194]

Of course you find a lot of kids up to the age of twelve who like and recognize the music of John Williams because up to that age they highly get socialized and influenced by their parents. But after that growing up they make up their own minds and start developing their own preferences. And the fascination of Williams' music gets replaced by a love for rap music or techno. 

[Loert 3,049]

John Williams definitely needs to compose a rap, just in case he isn't popular enough already. I already have the lyrics (courtesy of AI):

 

Quote

Verse 1:
Yo, listen up, I'm bout to spit some real facts
'Bout a maestro who's been stackin' them plaques
J-Dubs in the house, composin' with a vengeance
His melodies hit harder than a life sentence

 

Chorus:
John Williams, the OG of the score
Makin' blockbusters bang since before you was born
From the hood to Hollywood, his beats got pull
Mess with his tunes? Man, you playin' the fool

 

Verse 2:
Star Wars themes got the whole galaxy shook
Indiana Jones cracks his whip, villains get took
Jaws got you scared to dip your toes in the sea
Williams' beats make you feel like you gotta flee

 

(Chorus)

 

Verse 3:
Five Oscars deep, Grammy shelf bout to break
Fifty-plus noms, other composers fake
Boston Pops conductor, classical game tight
Williams' legacy burning bright like a Jedi's light

 

(Chorus)

 

Outro:
So next time you hear an orchestra swell
Remember J-Dubs, the OG who rings the bell
From the streets to the stars, his music's the law
John Williams, y'all, greatest of them all!

 

[Mr. Hooper 6,857]

Ah c'mon @Loert, you can tell us... You wrote that, didn't you. 

[The Score Cleaner 8,461]

3 hours ago, Loert said:

John Williams definitely needs to compose a rap, just in case he isn't popular enough already. I already have the lyrics (courtesy of AI):

 

 

He already did for Hook, remember?

[King Mark 3,862]

21 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Japan has always had a love affair with John Williams, and for the roughly ten years that I lived there, the kids were introduced to him through the use of his music (e.g., Star Wars Main Title and Imperial March, and the main themes for Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Superman, and Jaws) as stock/library background music for TV variety shows.

 well , Japanese people are refined!

[Sunshine Reger 3,697]

17 hours ago, Loert said:

John Williams definitely needs to compose a rap, just in case he isn't popular enough already. I already have the lyrics (courtesy of AI):

 

 

 

We need a JW subforum version of the:

thread 

 

 

[bruce marshall 1,912]

If JW is the most popular, who is number two?

 I would say Tchaikovsky is as popular.

NUTCRACKER, SWAN LAKE, PIANO CONCERTO #1, 1812 OVERTURE, SYMPHONIES #4, 6.