John Williams' 2nd symphony

[Jurassic Shark 15,564]

In addition to working for motion pictures and television, Williams made his mark as a composer of serious music. Whether commissioned to write them or done for other purposes, these include: Prelude and Fugue (1965), his Essay for Strings in 1966 and his Symphony No. 1 written in the same year, dedicated to his long time Hollywood associate Andre Previn (a second Symphony followed of which not much is known).

 

https://www.filmtracks.com/composers/williams.shtml

 

Is Clemmensen dreaming, or is there evidence of a 2nd symphony?

[Miguel Andrade 1,631]

There might have been some thought about it, but there's no real evidence. Often it has been assumed this was a confusion with the Sinfonietta for wind ensemble.

Nevertheless there is an interview from 1978, recorded in London, talking mostly about Star Wars, if memory serves, were he is asked about the Symphony No. 1, having been performed by the LSO in the early 70's and the interviewer mentions a second one, which Williams does not corrects. So either Williams assumed it was the Sinfonietta that was being referred to (being and instance of the confusion between pieces), or was in fact some thought of writing a second one, despite the first one being out of his catalogue for revision.

In fact, a revised version of the Symphony was programmed in 1988, but removed from the program in short notice. If during that decade he had plans to revise the Symphony and get it in a shape he found worthy of being performed, maybe he did toyed with the idea of (or even started work on) a second one.

[Matt S. 709]

What I find truly remarkable is that Williams’ official bio with the Boston Symphony literally states “he has composed numerous works for the concert stage, among them two symphonies, and concertos for flute, violin, clarinet, viola, oboe and tuba.”  The exact wording may vary between versions of the bio but they always include the “two symphonies.”  It’s been that way since the 90’s at least.  You’d think someone would have corrected it by now?

https://www.bso.org/profiles/john-williams

 

[bollemanneke 4,137]

Clemmensen often dreams, as do I.

[karelm 3,236]

Yeah, I've seen bios that say two symphonies and a sinfonietta.  I think what it was is more of the 1986 revised version of the symphony was different enough that he might have referenced it as a new work and others took that to imply a new symphony.  Similar to how Prokofiev's Symphony No. 4 are two different works.  There is Symphony No. 4, op. 47 (1930) lasting about 22 minutes and Symphony No. 4, op. 112 (1947) lasting 35 minutes.  To most people these are two entirely different works though the op. 112 is technically a major revision of the op. 47.  But I think with JW, the challenge is these work(s) have rarely been available so other than memories of those who performed or heard it, we don't have anything we can look at.  He must not think very high of it.  I remember seeing it available to rent about 10 years ago but no sign of it anymore.  

[Jurassic Shark 15,564]

48 minutes ago, karelm said:

I remember seeing it available to rent about 10 years ago but no sign of it anymore.  

 

Really, that recent?

[Miguel Andrade 1,631]

9 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Really, that recent?

 

Indeed that recent. There was some discussion on these boards about trying to get it rented.

[Thor 9,323]

Yes, as has been mentioned, people have confused the Sinfonietta for his second symphony for decades. Nothing to see here.

[Muad'Dib 1,997]

Reading the thread title, reading the actual thread reaction:

 

[Jurassic Shark 15,564]

On 09/09/2024 at 11:32 AM, Thor said:

Yes, as has been mentioned, people have confused the Sinfonietta for his second symphony for decades. Nothing to see here.

 

Are you referring to the 2rd sinfonietta that no-one's ever heard?

[Thor 9,323]

I'm sure there are still compositions from Williams' early life we don't know about yet (prior to his piano sonata at age 19), but a second symphony ain't one of them. Maybe it'll be in the Grieving book.

[Jurassic Shark 15,564]

Perhaps there will be a 3rd symphony.

[Tom 6,042]

3 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Are you referring to the 2rd sinfonietta that no-one's ever heard?

 

[Foxfan 210]

Can we just refer to American (or Unfinished) Journey as Symphony No. 2 for simplicity's sake?

[Jurassic Shark 15,564]

It's not a symphony.

[BB-8 5,560]

It's just arrived on white colored vinyl with red and blue stains and is no longer the album title.

[Jurassic Shark 15,564]

Call of the Champions the better title.

[BB-8 5,560]

2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Call Score of the Champions the better book title.

Fixed.

[Toillion 395]

6 hours ago, BB-8 said:

It's just arrived on white colored vinyl with red and blue stains and is no longer the album title.

What number did you get? I got #13 for Call of the champions and #63 for Summon the Heroes. 
My white vinyl also has stains but they are more grey so it kind of fits with the cover.
 

[BB-8 5,560]

#18 COTC

 

I didn't order the other one because I don't really like Orff and Vangelis...

 

Need to move to the right thread now...

[Marian Schedenig 10,833]

57 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

I didn't order the other one because I don't really like Orff and Vangelis...

 

The Orff is a horrible performance, but I love this version of Chariots of Fire. Conquest of Pardise is nice, too.

 

(But most importantly, that album has a couple of Williams best pieces.

[Jurassic Shark 15,564]

3 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

The Orff is a horrible performance

 

You really think so?

[Marian Schedenig 10,833]

4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

You really think so?

 

I find O Fortuna surprisingly difficult to get right - most versions I've heard sound either too tame, too ugly, or too overdone to me. Jochum is still the one I compare all others against (the work is forgiving enough for 60s-quality choirs, as long as they sing with enough power, and his soloists are impeccable). But the Williams version is one of the worst I've heard. (I also find the Bernstein piece very hard to listen to; I'm sure the Tanglewood Festival Chorus has sung more serviceable German lyrics elsewhere).

[Jurassic Shark 15,564]

4 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

I find O Fortuna surprisingly difficult to get right - most versions I've heard sound either too tame, too ugly, or too overdone to me.

 

Yet you defend the lethargic, flubby JW/VPO Jaws. I don't understand you. 

 

[BB-8 5,560]

5 hours ago, Toillion said:

What number did you get? I got #13 for Call of the champions and #63 for Summon the Heroes. 
My white vinyl also has stains but they are more grey so it kind of fits with the cover.
 

 

 

[Maurizio 6,337]

.

[Foxfan 210]

On 16/09/2024 at 3:28 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

It's not a symphony.

 

What's stopping him from proclaiming it to be a symphony? It's a multi-movement symphonic work that's much closer in style to a traditional symphony than any of Bernstein's or Copland's.

 

I've never even seen the Unfinished Journey documentary the work accompanied - the music can stand out very well on its own, with a nationalistic flair that one could argue was a nod to Sibelius' symphonies (especially No. 2).