Superman(2025) - John Murphy

[Naïve Old Fart 11,512]

I'm curious to know how scores such as RUNAWAY, WITNESS, and THE MOSQUITO COAST were written? Were they composed on paper, then transferred to the various synths? How were the sounds chosen?

[Tom Guernsey 3,191]

4 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I'm curious to know how scores such as RUNAWAY, WITNESS, and THE MOSQUITO COATS were written? Were they composed on paper, then transferred to the various synths? How were the sounds chosen?

I was under the impression that Jerry wrote his synth scores and then performed them in the same way as an acoustic score. I certainly don't think he improvised along to the picture (nothing wrong with that, it's just a different approach). I believe the sounds were largely driven by the synths of the period rather than now when you'd have an almost limitless choice, but I guess there must have been a particular sort of tone in mind.

[Mr. Lovejoy 7,978]

It doesn't look or sound good to me

[Gabriel Bezerra 624]

52 minutes ago, Maurizio said:

What happens today instead is that film composers are businessmen who run their own companies and have many people on staff to work on multiple projects at the same time, because the industry scale ramped up dramatically, with all the streaming services and the likes. I won't name names because I don't want any trouble, but look at the resume of some of the most in-demand composers for film and television and tell me how it would be humanly possible to take care of everything just by one person. I mean, surely some of them are workaholics who burn the midnight oil all week long and don't take holidays, etc. in order to deliver all the cues, including reworks. But it's not a healthy choice of life in the long run, and if you're paid a million dollar per movie, you can definitely allow yourself to use some help from others. Yes, there are extremes of people literally not doing anything but just giving indications to staff and review their work later on, maybe filling in a few bars and then taking all the glory themselves. The industry is full of such tales and sometimes it's hard to sift truth from gossip... But it's a much less romantic job that many of us fans want to believe.

As someone who enjoys Blake Neely's work on the Arrowverse shows (there was a point in which 5 were running simultaneously) and heard how it goes when he tried to do a season mostly by himself (if GEMA credits are to be believed), I wouldn't wish he did everything alone. But I do think 5 composers for a single episode of TV is too much, and in the end, the music was still a far cry from when they started it.

[Naïve Old Fart 11,512]

What? RUNAWAY?

Bol, and furthermore, locks!

It's a brilliant score.

 

28 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I was under the impression that Jerry wrote his synth scores and then performed them in the same way as an acoustic score. I certainly don't think he improvised along to the picture (nothing wrong with that, it's just a different approach). I believe the sounds were largely driven by the synths of the period rather than now when you'd have an almost limitless choice, but I guess there must have been a particular sort of tone in mind.

It would have been nice to have an insight into his style of composing, for RUNAWAY. Why that particular sound, for that particular part of the score?

With an orchestra, the choices are almost readymade, but with synths - even with the limited choice back then - that don't sound like an orchestra, it might have been tricky to get a good sonic balance.

[Tom Guernsey 3,191]

3 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

What? RUNAWAY?

Bol, and furthermore, locks!

It's a brilliant score.

 

It would have been nice to have an insight into his style of composing, for RUNAWAY. Why that particular sound, for that particular part of the score?

With an orchestra, the choices are almost readymade, but with synths - even with the limited choice back then - that don't sound like an orchestra, it might have been tricky to get a good sonic balance.

I'll have to give Runaway another listen I think!

 

For Jerry's totally synth scores, it sounds like he essentially scored using tones that somewhat resembled the various parts of an orchestra - reedy, flute-like, nasal, wiry and strings-like etc. For the synth additions to acoustic scores, it was more a case of sounds that didn't resemble the parts of an orchestra. However, from what I remember reading from the Jeff Bond book, he loved experimenting with synths and so likely figured out what sounds would work for what type of music in much the same way as you would work out how to effectively employ an oboe or a trumpet.

 

Having said all of that, the best non-orchestral sound he ever used was the blaster beam and that's not even a synth. I think that's partly why it doesn't sound dated in the same way as some of his synth additions do.

[Naïve Old Fart 11,512]

Do give RUNAWAY another listen, @Tom Guernsey.

I have a short suite, consisting of:

"Main Title", "She Went Home", "Shootin' Up The Ritz", "Alley Fight", "Lockons", "Luther Dies", "End Title".

[Yavar Moradi 3,504]

2 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I'm curious to know how scores such as RUNAWAY, WITNESS, and THE MOSQUITO COAST were written? Were they composed on paper, then transferred to the various synths? How were the sounds chosen?

 

I'm not sure about the Jarre scores (probably written), but I am sure about the Goldmith all-synth scores. Here are his original written sketches for all three of them, held at the Academy's Margaret Herrick Library:

Runaway: https://academycollection.org/web/arena/search#/entity/academy/71303067/runaway---music

Criminal Law: https://academycollection.org/web/arena/search#/entity/academy/71302948/criminal-law---music-sketches

Alien Nation: https://academycollection.org/web/arena/search#/entity/academy/71302931/alien-nation---music-sketches

 

I recall Goldsmith saying in an interview about Runaway that at least in that case, he "orchestrated" the score for synth ensemble (the Herrick's note says, "Pencil sketches in the form of reduced photocopies for an electronic music score utilizing the Moog, Jupiter E-5, Yamaha DX-7, and other synthesizers.") much as he would for an orchestra. It's why I think that score in particular would lend itself well to an orchestral realization someday...which Leigh Phillips has expressed interest in tackling. Here's an orchestral mockup sample he made:

 

Yavar

[Naïve Old Fart 11,512]

This is brilliant @Yavar Moradi!!!

Any more like this?

For me, this works, in exactly the same way that the orchestral "Building The Barn", or "Titles" doesn't.

[Yavar Moradi 3,504]

Sure @Naïve Old Fart — I’ve passed along your compliment to Leigh. He only did one other similar Goldsmith all-synth-to-orchestral-mockup, as far as I know. Several years earlier he tackled a brief bit of action from the much-maligned Criminal Law. I think I might like it even better than the Runaway one!

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/16HZXTuJrS/?mibextid=wwXIfr
 

Yavar

[Damien F 1,881]

The Lois & Clark theme is interesting for me because that show was my first introduction to Superman as a child. I used to watch it on TV before I even knew about the Reeve movies or who John Williams is. So that theme was the only music I ever associated with Superman for a long time. Once I became aware of film soundtracks, it actually took me a while to appreciate the Williams theme as the more important musical identity for the character over the TV show theme. 

[Poor_Man_S_HirschFeld 39]

 

Well, I passed my love for Superman down to my own children. My eldest son, who is very, very old-school for someone his age and quite sophisticated in matters of cinema, seems intrigued. I guess part of it is just the chance to see the character done well on the big screen (I remember how hyped I was for the release of Raimi's Spider-Man back in the day).

 

Thematically, the new movie seems to share elements with Donner, Singer, and Snyder as well. I guess it's the execution that will matter most. I'm curious about how all the extra super-characters (whether friends or foes) will fit in. It does look like they nailed the casting. If so, it'll be a fun movie.

 

I'm on the fence about Nicholas Hoult's Luthor. He's a fine actor, but the trailer makes him look like a spoiled brat pouting. Still, I know he auditioned for the role and not just get it; I assume he had to be good.

 

One thing that ruined 'Returns' was the casting of Spacey and Bosworth. The former is a very good actor of course, but I don't know what kind of villain he was trying to portray. The latter delivered a weak performance and had zero chemistry with Brandon Routh. I wish they had cast John Doman and Robin Tunney back then.

 

 

[CT-7567 164]

1 hour ago, Poor_Man_S_HirschFeld said:

Thematically, the new movie seems to share elements with Donner, Singer, and Snyder as well. I guess it's the execution that will matter most. I'm curious about how all the extra super-characters (whether friends or foes) will fit in. It does look like they nailed the casting. If so, it'll be a fun movie.

I think that Gunn will do a Kick Ass approach mixed with The Incredibles.

 

Gunn said that there are three main characters in this movie: Superman, Lois, and Lex.

 

So maybe, he will use the other heroes kinda as "co-workers" of Clark to explore more of his personality in his life as a Superhero and show how fantastical this world is, like in The Incredibles, while also having his cast from the Daily Planet to explore his civillian side. At the same time, Lois will share members of the two casts in a subplot that will connect to what Clark is dealing with, and Luthor will have his own cast of villains.

 

 

[Edmilson 10,347]

I'm annoyed with myself that I can't get excited for this. Like I don't think it looks awful, I'm just meh about it.

 

Was Gunn's Superman supposed to be played by Chris pratt? Because he's acting like Chris Pratt. Where's the stoicism? Also the camera work is awkward a hell to the point where it's just nauseating to watch.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,722]

54 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Was Gunn's Superman supposed to be played by Chris pratt? Because he's acting like Chris Pratt. Where's the stoicism? Also the camera work is awkward a hell to the point where it's just nauseating to watch.

 

Actors nowadays can't seem to project with deep voices. Instead they sound so... boyish. You know that Chris Pine type voice.

[Mr. Lovejoy 7,978]

Superman is now a guy with goofy hair who argues with the press. Hmm..

[Ninoners 35]

36 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I'm annoyed with myself that I can't get excited for this. Like I don't think it looks awful, I'm just meh about it.

 

Was Gunn's Superman supposed to be played by Chris pratt? Because he's acting like Chris Pratt. Where's the stoicism? Also the camera work is awkward a hell to the point where it's just nauseating to watch.

Where's the stoicism???  I take it your sole point of reference is Zack Snyder.  Please read some comics or watch Donner movies, Superman & Lois, animated series from 90s, etc. 

 

If I had to list character traits of Superman, "stoic" would not crack top 20.  I am not interested in watching another movie with Supes silently brooding and looking grim.  That's Batman's role in DC.  

 

 

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,722]

Superman seems stoic in the Reeve movies.

[Mr. Lovejoy 7,978]

The modern takes on Superman are like if the scenes in Superman II where he's powerless and conflicted or the drunk evil version from III are how he is all the time. 

[Ninoners 35]

13 minutes ago, Lady Dimitrescu said:

 

Actors nowadays can't seem to project with deep voices nowadays. Instead they sound so... boyish. You know that Chris Pine type voice.

I thought people were born with the voice they have, but what do I know?

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,722]

1 minute ago, Ninoners said:

I thought people were born with the voice they have, but what do I know?

 

They're usually born screaming.

[Gabriel Bezerra 624]

20 minutes ago, Lady Dimitrescu said:

Superman seems stoic in the Reeve movies.

Isn't that the one he gets so mad he turns the world around? Or the one where he gets revenge at a cafeteria?

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,722]

This order's to go.

[Ninoners 35]

I already said it in this thread, but I'd love it if people actually watch a movie (all of it) before making conclusions.  I get that's not how the internet works and that we all have to declare something definitively as either the best ever OR utter garbage based on set photos, 2 minute trailers, and posters but holy hell is it frustrating.

 

 

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,722]

When you're a seasoned movie watcher, you develop a good gauge on what's probably good or what's probably lame.

[Yavar Moradi 3,504]

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Was Gunn's Superman supposed to be played by Chris pratt? Because he's acting like Chris Pratt.

2 hours ago, Lady Dimitrescu said:

Actors nowadays can't seem to project with deep voices. Instead they sound so... boyish. You know that Chris Pine type voice.

 

Are we watching the same trailer? That moment at the beginning of the interview where he shifts into Superman-mode and says "Ms. Lane" you think he sounds boyish??

 

And are you all forgetting what Christopher Reeve sounded like, as Clark Kent?

 

"Actually she's silver haired."

 

Yavar

[CT-7567 164]

3 hours ago, Mr. Lovejoy said:

Superman is now a guy with goofy hair who argues with the press. Hmm..

Lois Lane in Journalist mode is a much bigger problem than Luthor.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,722]

He should go back to Lana.

[Naïve Old Fart 11,512]

13 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

 

Watch what happens, at around 2.32 

[Tallguy 5,500]

16 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

"Actually she's silver haired."

 

One of my favorite lines in the whole movie.

[1977 1,779]

4 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Watch what happens, at around 2.32 

No way that would make it into a film today! 🤣

[Naïve Old Fart 11,512]

26 minutes ago, 1977 said:

No way that would make it into a film today! 🤣

Indeed.

It's mentioned on the Donner/Mankiewicz commentary that "one man in a cinema, in Cleveland, laughed".

[Romão 2,403]

I have no idea if the movie will be good or not, but my gut feeling is that, at the very least, they nailed the casting of Superman. To play this role properly, an actor must be able to project a great sense of empathy, of seeming incredibly powerful and non-threatening at the same time. I never felt Cavill was able convey this. He looked the part, but there's a smugness, a certain vanity that I can never quite ignore when seeing him on screen.

 

These things are hard to explain and I naturally haven't seen the movie yet, but David Corenswet really seems to embody those qualities I mentioned. It's the only element of the movie I'm almost 100% sure about.

[Tallguy 5,500]

23 minutes ago, Romão said:

I have no idea if the movie will be good or not, but my gut feeling is that, at the very least, they nailed the casting of Superman. To play this role properly, an actor must be able to project a great sense of empathy, of seeming incredibly powerful and non-threatening at the same time. I never felt Cavill was able convey this. He looked the part, but there's a smugness, a certain vanity that I can never quite ignore when seeing him on screen.

 

These things are hard to explain and I naturally haven't seen the movie yet, but David Corenswet really seems to embody those qualities I mentioned. It's the only element of the movie I'm almost 100% sure about.

 

I disagree about Cavil but everything else is solid. Cavil had all of that but he also had a reticence. He had bags of humility.

[Brando 2,439]

6 hours ago, Romão said:

I never felt Cavill was able convey this. He looked the part, but there's a smugness, a certain vanity that I can never quite ignore when seeing him on screen.

Yes, I feel the same about Cavill.

[WampaRat 1,734]

I showed this trailer to my 7-year-old and he was pretty excited. I've done my duty as a parent and introduced him to Supes via the '90s animated show. He's onboard and I can't wait to take him. He already loves Krypto ( and I'm sure the merchandise execs do too!) 

As far as David C's portrayal, I really like what I'm seeing. It seems that his Superman, while he doesn't wear a physical mask, wears a mask of confidence, and the real Kal-El feels like all of us—uncertain, just trying to do the right thing. It's a sore spot for him, as evidenced by Ms. Lane's mock interview. I love how relatable that feels to me. This guy has emotions - joy, frustration, love, anger. He's powerful. But not a god.
Bring it on.

 

[ThomasFernando 90]

Not a fan of the visual look of the film. Looks very flat and made-for-tv. I had the same issue with Guardians Vol. 3, the cinematography in Vols. 1 & 2 was far better.

 

But I think they're hitting the right notes with their portrayal of these characters. Hoping that the film has a solid screenplay and doesn't get too bogged down in world building.

 

Dreading the score. Hearing other composers butcher Williams' themes is like nails on a chalkboard for me.

[Edmilson 10,347]

There's something about this movie's visuals that remind me of a cartoon.

 

And I don't say that in a demeaning way, in fact, I like it! It gives me the vibe of watching a 90s/2000s superhero animated series. And as someone who has been missing this kind of series (Marvel/DC should introduce the current generation of children to their worlds, like mine had numerous quality shows from both publishers back in the day), I think this is nice.

 

The score though... Not a fan of this Top Gun-ized version of the Williams theme. In fact, I hope they only use JW's theme for the trailers and the movie has its own Supes theme. Williams' theme was written for the version of the character played by Christopher Reeve. Using it for any other version is just... wrong.

[Mysterio 34]

To me the visuals look like a saturday morning cartoon, and i'm not mad at it to be honest, i like it, it could've been better obviously but i see the vision. The only thing i didn't like in Guardians 3 is that weird Orgocorps sequence, it looked like an SNL sketch and felt out of place, it was a long sequence too! Hopefully there isn't any of that in this film.

 

Btw i don't think John Murphy wrote a theme for Superman, maybe a "Responsiblity" motif but not a theme, which is a shame

[Meredith McKay 7,783]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Williams' theme was written for the version of the character played by Christopher Reeve. Using it for any other version is just... wrong.

 

[Edmilson 10,347]

Using Williams' Superman theme for Cavill or Corensweat or whatever feels as weird as scoring Holland's Spiderman with Elfman's Raimi Spidey theme or Horner's TASM theme.

[Jaaaackified 90]

19 hours ago, Edmilson said:

There's something about this movie's visuals that remind me of a cartoon.

 

And I don't say that in a demeaning way, in fact, I like it! It gives me the vibe of watching a 90s/2000s superhero animated series. And as someone who has been missing this kind of series (Marvel/DC should introduce the current generation of children to their worlds, like mine had numerous quality shows from both publishers back in the day), I think this is nice.

 

The score though... Not a fan of this Top Gun-ized version of the Williams theme. In fact, I hope they only use JW's theme for the trailers and the movie has its own Supes theme. Williams' theme was written for the version of the character played by Christopher Reeve. Using it for any other version is just... wrong.

 

It's vibrant and vivid. It's a comic book movie about the ultimate boy scout, the ever bright beacon. It should look like what it is in the trailer. 

[Tallguy 5,500]

I realized watching this trailer: I think this trailer assumes we all know who Superman is. And we know a LOT about Superman. And we know a lot about various VERSIONS of Superman.

 

Maybe this is just us, but there is a lot of this trailer that I don't see how it makes sense without that knowledge. OH. This is Superman where Lois knows Clark is Superman. Oh. This has Krypto and the Fortress of Solitude. And so on.

 

Or maybe people just see the guy with the red cape and say "Oh, that's Superman and a bunch of comic-booky stuff. Sure, let's go."

[Edmilson 10,347]

Scott Mendelson likes to say that Superman is more like Robin Hood and King Arthur than Batman or Spiderman, as in that character that everyone knows the basics but that doesn't automatically translate into huge box office numbers.

 

And to support that he says the last Superman movie to be unquestionably successful was the second Reeve movie in 1981. 

 

So will this movie be the first Superman box office megahit in 44 years?

[Jaaaackified 90]

19 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Scott Mendelson likes to say that Superman is more like Robin Hood and King Arthur than Batman or Spiderman, as in that character that everyone knows the basics but that doesn't automatically translate into huge box office numbers.

 

And to support that he says the last Superman movie to be unquestionably successful was the second Reeve movie in 1981. 

 

So will this movie be the first Superman box office megahit in 44 years?

 Being sandwiched between Jurassic World 4 and Fantastic 4 certainly does not look good for its box office

[Mr. Hooper 4,953]

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

I realized watching this trailer: I think this trailer assumes we all know who Superman is. And we know a LOT about Superman. And we know a lot about various VERSIONS of Superman.

 

Maybe this is just us, but there is a lot of this trailer that I don't see how it makes sense without that knowledge. OH. This is Superman where Lois knows Clark is Superman. Oh. This has Krypto and the Fortress of Solitude. And so on.

 

Or maybe people just see the guy with the red cape and say "Oh, that's Superman and a bunch of comic-booky stuff. Sure, let's go."

Well, it's just a trailer. Everything should be explained to the uninitiated in the movie.

[Tallguy 5,500]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Well, it's just a trailer. Everything should be explained to the uninitiated in the movie.

 

Oh to be sure. It's just that this is an indication of what they at least think will get butts into seats.

[Mr. Hooper 4,953]

Just now, Tallguy said:

 

Oh to be sure. It's just that this is an indication of what they at least think will get butts into seats.

The general public will see Superman, Lois Lane, and Lex Luthor. The rest is window dressing.

[CT-7567 164]

Maybe a new part of the score was revealed here.

 

[Tallguy 5,500]

1 minute ago, CT-7567 said:

Maybe a new part of the score was revealed.

 

 

Isn't that League of Superpets (Jablonsky)?