The Patriot (Intrada) 3CD Set

[Jurassic Shark 14,207]

1 hour ago, Richard P said:

From right here:

 

 

 

It's not even Friday!

[Richard P 4,517]

Question for those who know more about this stuff, following from some comments at FSM: is this likely to be a digital recording? If so, does this significantly reduce the general sound improvement that Mike can do? Clearly all releases are mixed and mastered for a music release, but does this change materially if it's in the digital realm to start with - due to there being no step involving a modern tape transfer.

 

That the JPIII set was sourced from digital files (I assume that's what '24-bit film mixes' means) makes the lack of any revelatory new sound understandable, but are the two linked?

 

Although there's only one expansion where I've listened to the original OST and wondered what on earth happened, which is WotW. It seems like properly noticeable remastering applies more to older scores where a remaster is more apparent due to a bad-sounding original release.

[Edmilson 9,797]

This is not April Fools... It's not, right?! RIGHT?!?

 

[Jay 41,256]

[pete 1,049]

1 hour ago, Richard P said:

From right here:

 

 

 

Ha, I thought BF part 3 meant a reissue of Back to the Future Part 3!

[JohnnyD 1,453]

9 hours ago, Erik Woods said:

Via Roger Feigelson - Facebook

 

Coming January 20th

 

 

This is an excellent piece of news to wake up to! I can't wait to order this!

[Amer 2,393]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

WotW too -because there was free space for it and it covers some alternates.

Oh yes but I love the album version of WOTW because of its unique edits and mixing. I was so happy when the album got a proper redux because it sound so much better than the OST album. Thats Why I'am hoping PATRIOT OST if included will sound amazing.

[JohnnyD 1,453]

Three CD set! Wow!

 

What a phenomenal way to kick off 2025! Also, this year marks the 25th anniversary of the film!

[Edmilson 9,797]

I can't wait to listen to The North Star and The Defeat at Charleston. These have been two of my most anticipated cues for 9 years!

[Nemesis 268]

This is fantastic news! This is my most wanted complete score after Hook 

[QuartalHarmony 737]

1 hour ago, Richard P said:

Clearly all releases are mixed and mastered for a music release, but does this change materially if it's in the digital realm to start with - due to there being no step involving a modern tape transfer.

 

The fact that an original recording is digital removes - in an ideal world - one step from the transfer process since (in theory) the digital stage is bit-perfect after error-correction. A recording from 1999/2000 would still probably have gone through analogue stages for mixing purposes, both on the original soundstage and subsequently since mixing in the all-digital domain was still rather unusual then.

 

Even if it didn't, though, there's still endless room for a remastering to involve rebalancing tracks (e.g. changing how loud the strings are compared to the brass), altering the frequency response, adding compression, reverb etc., with some of these being very much less desirable changes than others. A digital recording that gets remastered can be vastly improved or horrifically ruined, depending on what decisions are made.

 

Mark

 

 

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,304]

They usually horrifically ruin it by making it brighter and louder.

[Richard P 4,517]

My typical qualm with remastering is when we lose detail in individual instruments, or particularly if an instrument is prominent in the film but toned down for release.

[Thor 9,081]

There is really no need for remastering here. The OST sounds beautiful - big and lush sound, befitting the music.

[BB-8 4,441]

Sorry folks...couldn't resist.

 

[Amer 2,393]

Weren't they using DSD processing in those early 2000s making the mix slightly muddier ? Because I found the dense orchestral passages very ambient and not as close upfront as they should have been! Kinda sound wet to my ears. 

[Edmilson 9,797]

4 hours ago, Amer said:

Actually I never warmed up to the OST presentation. It was hodgepodge of highlights and it never built into a proper flow. That's what MM would do while restoring the linear progression of the score and then working out a listenable program that gives the score a whole new life of its own. 

 

This is exactly what I've been wanting an expansion for so long.

 

The OST, while decent, is mostly a collection of highlights. After I saw the movie (9 years ago this month!) I was quite sure that a complete and chronological presentation, with a clear narrative arc, would really make this score soar. 

 

It's not just wonderful unreleased cues that are missing from the OST, it's also the whole narrative, the progression of the story told through John Williams' music.

[Jamie Dutton 7,715]

54 minutes ago, The Train Station said:

They usually horrifically ruin it by making it brighter and louder.

 

The Patriot OST sounds great

[Richard P 4,517]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

There is really no need for remastering here. The OST sounds beautiful - big and lush sound, befitting the music.

 

Yes, I just gave a few tracks another listen now. A few comments at FSM about a remastered OST, but like many around this period it sounds fine already.

 

I really think the problem is more with much older scores where the OST is transferred or mastered questionably, and all that a remaster is doing is making it sound how it was recorded. I reckon that from the mid 90s onwards, sub-standard sounding OSTs are the exception.

 

6 hours ago, Amer said:

Actually I never warmed up to the OST presentation. It was hodgepodge of highlights and it never built into a proper flow. That's what MM would do while restoring the linear progression of the score and then working out a listenable program that gives the score a whole new life of its own. 

 

The OST has some nice bits but I get turned off by the more melodramatic cues - the fire scene and where one of the family dies. Like with a lot of Horner's material, I tend to tire of those bits.

 

It's the further thematic appearances and more general underscore that I anticipate with this. If I purchase it, it's almost certainly going to be a case of curating a better personal album.

[MrJosh 946]

Great news! One of my favorites. I've mentioned before that sometime around 1998 is when I went full-steam ahead on film music collecting and digging into as much of Williams' music as I could find, so when this OST came out a couple years later, I got it on day one and has good memories for me. Really excited to revisit this in expanded form. 

[WampaRat 1,463]

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I can't wait to listen to The North Star and The Defeat at Charleston. These have been two of my most anticipated cues for 9 years!

Same! 
Very thrilled by this announcement! An early 2000s Williams historical epic. Flashy brass fanfares, dramatic string passages, terrific action music, soaring love themes. All the things that made us fall in love with the Maestro's music!

[TownerFan 5,554]

4 hours ago, Richard P said:

Question for those who know more about this stuff, following from some comments at FSM: is this likely to be a digital recording? If so, does this significantly reduce the general sound improvement that Mike can do? Clearly all releases are mixed and mastered for a music release, but does this change materially if it's in the digital realm to start with - due to there being no step involving a modern tape transfer.

 

Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure every JW score until the early 2000s was recorded on analog tape. For a while they ran both analog and digital tapes on several projects, but I don't remember when analog was finally discontinued. Everything switched to tapeless digital only in 2015 with The Force Awakens.

 

I don't know exactly which elements Mike had to work on this, though. He mentioned me something a while ago, but I don't remember. We will have a fresh conversation soon

[QuartalHarmony 737]

8 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

I'm pretty sure every JW score until the early 2000s was recorded on analog tape

 

If so, that would be a slightly late changeover compared to the rest of the recording industry (classical had discontinued analogue by the early 80s, pop probably about a decade later). I wonder why - unless it's a JW-specific thing, because he (and, I think, Shawn Murphy) has made a couple of comments that imply he (they) preferred analogue.

[Jurassic Shark 14,207]

1 hour ago, QuartalHarmony said:

 

If so, that would be a slightly late changeover compared to the rest of the recording industry (classical had discontinued analogue by the early 80s, pop probably about a decade later). I wonder why - unless it's a JW-specific thing, because he (and, I think, Shawn Murphy) has made a couple of comments that imply he (they) preferred analogue.

 

If I remember correctly, analogue was recorded alongside digital as a backup for many years after transitioning to digital recording. 

[Chewy 2,637]

2 hours ago, TownerFan said:

 

Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure every JW score until the early 2000s was recorded on analog tape. For a while they ran both analog and digital tapes on several projects, but I don't remember when analog was finally discontinued. Everything switched to tapeless digital only in 2015 with The Force Awakens.

 

Possible! But the fact that recent remasters/expansions used high resolution digital files (thinking of Prisoner of Azkaban, War of the Worlds, Revenge of the Sith, and even Chamber of Secrets) makes me think they stopped recording on analog tapes way before 2015.

[Jay 41,256]

All of Williams' scores were recorded onto analog tape as the primary 1st generation element all the way up through at least 1999, maybe even as far as 2005, even if they immediately made digital transfers to do the performance edits and/or digital album master.

 

We know for certain analog tape was running on Harry Potter 1 (2001), Attack of the Clones (2002), Minority Report (2002), Harry Potter 2 (2002), and War of the Worlds (2005).  The original analog tape was freshly transferred (meaning all performance edits created anew by Mike from this transfer) for LLL's releases of Harry Potter 1 and Minority Report, as well as the 2018 demaster of Attack of the Clones.  For LLL's Harry Potter 2, Simon Rhodes' 2002 digital mixes were used.  For Intrada's War of the Worlds, the original 2005 Pro Tools session was used.  On that score, the analog tape only captured the raw takes of every cue in multitrack, no mixes were ever preserved onto analog tape.

 

I have no information on if analog was running or not on A.I. (2001), Catch Me If You Can (2002), The Terminal (2004), Harry Potter 3 (2004), Memoirs of a Geisha (2005), or Munich (2005).  For LLL's A.I., Shawn Murphy's 2001 digital mixes were used.  For LLL's Harry Potter 3, digital mixes by Shawn Murphy from 2004 were the only element located during the album's production phase.

 

This leaves Revenge of the Sith (2005), which we know from the Reddit AMA that NO analog was ran.  They wanted to record onto Ampex 456 but couldn't locate enough stock!

 

For Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull (2008), analog tape (Quantegy 456) was running as a backup only; the original digital recording is used for everything we've ever heard.

 

For Tintin (2011), War Horse (2011), Lincoln (2012), and The Book Thief (2013), I do not believe we have any information if any analog tape ran as a backup or not, but it's most likely that there was not.  For certain, the film and album mixes use the original digital recording only.

 

From The Force Awakens (2015) onward, there is certainly no more analog tape used at all.

[Chewy 2,637]

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

All of Williams' scores were recorded onto analog tape as the primary 1st generation element all the way up through 2001, even if they immediately made digital transfers to do the performance edits and/or digital album master.

 

We know for certain analog tape was running on A.I. (2001), Harry Potter 1 (2001), Attack of the Clones (2002), Minority Report (2002), Harry Potter 2 (2002), and War of the Worlds (2005).  The original analog tape was freshly transferred (meaning all performance edits created anew by Mike from this transfer) for LLL's releases of Harry Potter 1 and Minority Report, as well as the 2018 demaster of Attack of the Clones.  For LLL's A.I., Shawn Murphy's 2001 digital mixes were used.  For LLL's Harry Potter 2, Simon Rhodes' 2002 digital mixes were used.  For Intrada's War of the Worlds, the original 2005 Pro Tools session was used.  On that score, the analog tape only captured the raw takes of every cue in multitrack, no mixes were ever preserved onto analog tape.  I don't know if mixes were saved to analog for A.I. or Harry Potter 2.

 

I have no information on if analog was running or not on Catch Me If You Can (2002), The Terminal (2004), Harry Potter 3 (2004), Memoirs of a Geisha (2005), or Munich (2005).  For LLL's Harry Potter 3, digital mixes by Shawn Murphy from 2004 were the only element located during the album's production phase.

 

This leaves Revenge of the Sith (2005), which we know from the Reddit AMA that NO analog was ran.  They wanted to record onto Ampex 456 but couldn't locate enough stock!

 

For Crystal Skull in 2008, analog tape (Quantegy 456) was running as a backup only; the film and OST album and everything else all come from the digital recording that happened simultaneously and was considered the primary 1st gen element.

 

For Tintin (2011), War Horse (2011), Lincoln (2012), and The Book Thief (2013), I do not believe we have any information if any analog tape ran as a backup or not, but it's most likely that there was not.  For certain, the film and album mixes use the original digital recording only.

 

From The Force Awakens (2015) onward, there is certainly no more analog tape used at all.

 

That's great information, thank you for that!

[Jay 41,256]

No problem!

 

I reformatted chronologically:

 

1 - The Analog Era [everything through The Phantom Menace (1999)]

• analog tape is the first generation original element, with rare exceptions such as the E.T. album recording day in 1982 (!). 
• Any specialty label expansions of scores from this era all used analog tape transfers as their primary source, sometimes supplemented with other bits (like ET's theme park music, or a DAT tape for Schindler's List bonus tracks)

2 - The Transitional Era

• 1999 - Angela's Ashes - Simon Rhodes - unknown
• 2000 - The Patriot - Shawn Murphy - unknown
• 2001 - A.I. Artificial Intelligence - Shawn Murphy - unknown if analog tape ran or not; 2001 digital mixes used for the film, OST, and LLL expansion
• 2001 - Harry Potter 1 - Simon Rhodes - 2001 digital mixes were only 24bit/44.1khz, so the original analog was transferred for the LLL expansion with Mike re-recreating performance edits from that
• 2002 - Attack of the Clones - Shawn Murphy - reddit AMA confirms analog ran, and was transferred for the 2018 demasteers, with Shawn Murphy's team using wrong takes in spots for the new performance edits
• 2002 - Minority Report - Shawn Murphy - the original analog was transferred for the LLL expansion with Mike re-recreating performance edits from that.
• 2002 - Harry Potter 2 - Simon Rhodes - the original analog tape is preserved perfectly; but the LLL edition used Simon Rhodes' 2002 digital mixes, which were higher resolution than Harry Potter 1's.
• 2002 - Catch Me If You Can - Shawn Murphy - unknown
• 2004 - Harry Potter 3 - Shawn Murphy - unknown if analog ran or not.  Shawn Murphy's 2004 digital mixes were used for the LLL edition
• 2004 - The Terminal - Shawn Murphy - unknown
• 2005 - Revenge of the Sith - Shawn Murphy - they wanted to record onto analog (Ampex 456), but couldn't locate enough stock, so its a fully digital recording
• 2005 - War of the Worlds - Shawn Murphy - analog tape captured every raw take in multitrack, but only as a backup (no mixes were saved to analog).  The 2005 Pro Tools session is the source of the film, OST, and Intrada edition
• 2005 - Memoirs of a Giesha - Shawn Murphy - unknown
• 2005 - Munich - Shawn Murphy - unknown
• 2008 - Indiana Jones 4 - Shawn Murphy - Analog (Quantegy 456) ran as a backup only, with the digital recording used for the film and album
• 2011 - Tintin - Shawn Murphy - unknown
• 2011 - War Horse - Shawn Murphy - unknown
• 2012 - Lincoln - Shawn Murphy - unknown
• 2013 - The Book Thief - Shawn Murphy - unknown

3 - The Digital Era [The Force Awakens (2015) to present]

• There is no more analog tape run at all for certain.  This era could actually begin in 2013, 2012, or 2011 as we get more info.

[WampaRat 1,463]

My custom cover contribution.

[Chewy 2,637]

36 minutes ago, Jay said:

We know for certain analog tape was running on A.I. (2001)

 

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

2001 - A.I. Artificial Intelligence - Shawn Murphy - unknown if analog tape ran or not; 2001 digital mixes used for LLL expansion

 

Hmmm, so did they run analog tape or not? 

[Jay 41,256]

Well, I'm pretty sure it was (I really think Revenge of the Sith was the first time that analog never ran at all), but I realized we had no confirmation of that, The Patriot, or Angela's Ashes, so I rejiggered slightly.

[Evanus 378]

Always a bit sad when it's Intrada releasing something, since their art direction sucks. But at least with Matessino involved there won't be any fuckups with the music itself lol

[JohnnyD 1,453]

7 hours ago, Jay said:

I was hesitant to post the actual clip, as your original post, "It's real, and it's spectacular," immediately made me think of that from Seinfeld. I did not want to stray off topic or that someone would beat me to it. I'm glad you did it yourself. Nice!

[Chewy 2,637]

5 minutes ago, Evanus said:

Always a bit sad when it's Intrada releasing something, since their art direction sucks. But at least with Matessino involved there won't be any fuckups with the music itself lol

 

I honestly like the new cover art, much much better than the OST cover!

[Jurassic Shark 14,207]

5 minutes ago, Evanus said:

Always a bit sad when it's Intrada releasing something, since their art direction sucks. But at least with Matessino involved there won't be any fuckups with the music itself lol

 

Are you referring to the white font on an almost white background at the bottom, or to the crowded text at the top?

[Holko 11,054]

2 minutes ago, Chewy said:

 

I honestly like the new cover art, much much better than the OST cover!

 

Well it's a really low bar! But yeah, so far, not the worst. We can check closer when they release the high res one (600x600)!

[Jurassic Shark 14,207]

That's not high res.

[enderdrag64 1,148]

15 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

or to the crowded text at the top?

In their defense that's mostly Mel Gibson's fault

[Chewy 2,637]

14 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

That's not high res.

 

[Edmilson 9,797]

19 minutes ago, Chewy said:

 

I honestly like the new cover art, much much better than the OST cover!

Yeah, but then again the OST had a truly atrocious cover:

 

 

Though to be honest I always thought it was hilarious how huge Gibson's head is in the poster 

 

[Meredith McKay 7,340]

3 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Yeah, but then again the OST had a truly atrocious cover:

 

 

Though to be honest I always thought it was hilarious how huge Gibson's head is in the poster 

 

[JohnnyD 1,453]

Will the track list be revealed on the day it is available to order?

[Jay 41,256]

Of course.

[Jurassic Shark 14,207]

27 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

In their defense that's mostly Mel Gibson's fault

 

He does have a big head.

 

27 minutes ago, Chewy said:

 

 

That's not high res either. 

[Jamie Dutton 7,715]

I like the OST cover

[Edmilson 9,797]

2 minutes ago, Jamie Dutton said:

I like the OST cover

It has Mel Gibson, the word "Patriot" and is a very curated OST album, you and Drax ought to like it 

[Pawel P. 801]

I've always really liked the soundtrack album, despite a few less compelling fragments in the middle.

 

I remember thinking about The Patriot when it was released: "Okay, Williams has composed so many wonderful scores that from now I'll treat each subsequent one as a bit of a bonus."

 

Of course, I've known for a long time that no fragment of Maestro's music from the 21st century is a bonus, but an equal part of his impressive oeuvre. And I still eagerly await each of his next compositions. And I'm never disappointed.

 

Of course, The Patriot is an immediate purchase for me. Like all other expansions.

 

[Jamie Dutton 7,715]

Nothing wrong with the album but I'm sure the longer version is great. I'm the opposite with the movie. I prefer the theatrical cut. The extended version I remember had a scene with bodies going down the river that Spielberg ripped off in WOTW and maybe even had similar music?

[Smaug The Iron 614]

14 hours ago, Holko said:

Remembering some of the speculatory tracklists, maybe by @BrotherSound, didn't it all fit well on 2 discs? OK now I'm worried that this'll cost 60€ purely because of a completely useless shuffled copypaste inclusion which Doug had a bit of a fetish for, remember Spacecamp?

Quote

Here’s another I think would be something of a revelation, The Patriot:

 

Film Score Presentation

The Family Farm 3:04

The North Star* 1:46

To Charleston 2:15

Addressing the Assembly* / Martin and Charlotte* 2:00

The Defeat at Charleston* 2:50

Walking Among The Fallen* 1:20

Redcoats At The Farm And The Death Of Thomas (Film Version)** 5:30

The First Ambush 2:47

Martin And Sons* / Martin Leaves The Family* 3:00

The Colonel and the Corporal* 2:20

Ann Recruits The Parishioners 3:09

Villenueve’s Training** 2:28

Ann And Gabriel 4:35

Tavington’s Ambush 2:01

Remembering the Wilderness** 1:46

Martin Confronts Tavington* 2:51

The Burning of the Plantation 4:56

Gullah Maroon* 2:00

Burnt-out Homes* 0:48

Susan and Father* 1:30

The Wedding* 2:40

Susan Speaks 3:17

The Parisians Return* 1:30

The Parish Church Aflame (Extended Version)** 4:19

Gabriel’s Last Fight 2:14

The Death of Gabriel* 6:45

Martin Rejoins The Troops** 1:00

The Patriot Returns** 1:30

Preparing For Battle (Film Version) 3:46

Total disc 1 time: 78:07

 

Film Score Presentation (continued)

Facing The British Lines** (Film Version) 6:00

Martin vs. Tavington 3:07

Yorktown and The Return Home 5:20

End Credits 7:50

Total disc 2 score: 22:17

Total score time: 1:40:24

 

Source Music

Yankee Doodle** 1:30

Prince Eugene* 1:30

British Grenadiers** 3:00

The Tavern* 1:30

At Camp* 1:15

Fort Drums* 1:00

Wedding Celebration* 2:00

Battle Drums 1:00

Total Source Music time: 12:45

 

Additional Music

The Defeat at Charleston (Alternate)* 2:40

The Death Of Thomas (Alternate)** 4:15

Martin and Sons (Alternate)* 1:30

The First Ambush and Remembering The Wilderness 4:00

The Colonial Cause 3:16

Preparing for Battle (Album Version) 5:50

Facing the British Lines (Album Version) 3:05

Martin vs. Tavington (Alternate)* 2:25

Yorktown and The Return Home (Alternate)* 4:45

The Patriot 6:40

Total additional music time: 38:26

 

Disc 2 total time: 77:14

Total Album Time: 2:35:21

 

[Manakin Skywalker 5,571]

Idk why Intrada doesn't just hire me to do the covers.