The Patriot (Intrada) 3CD Set

[Holko 11,054]

I think @crumbs already started working on a version using this?

[WampaRat 1,463]

7 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

Can't believe I failed to find the color version!

 

Revised cover:

 

[BB-8 4,441]

Quick, rush this cover to Intrada's printer!

[Thor 9,081]

That's an excellent cover. I don't mind the OST cover as much as everyone else seems to do, but wouldn't have objected to replacing it with that.

[bruce marshall 1,403]

Same artist?

Nice work!

 

[JohnnyD 1,453]

 

While I don't mind Intrada's cover, I think a better official film cover would be better.

[WampaRat 1,463]

Gorgeously illustrated posters will always be my preferred go-to for album covers:)
The cover for this expansion was taken from the Extended DVD artwork FYI. It wasn't the original one sheet or the teaser poster. I wonder what clause/stipulations there are about the artwork that gets used for these expansions. I suppose pre-approved key art is faster to get through all exec brass/parties than an altered or completely new take on the key art like Jim Titus will do (his E.T. being a great example of something new that fits perfectly with the original marketing materials for that film.)

[Holko 11,054]

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

Can't believe I failed to find the color version!

 

Revised cover:

 

Nice job! Here's an attempt to balance the colours to pop a bit and make it less yellow:

[Meredith McKay 7,340]

1 minute ago, Holko said:

Nice job! Here's an attempt to balance the colours to pop a bit and make it less yellow:

Hi Lowry Digital!

[JohnnyD 1,453]

On 9/1/2025 at 1:37 PM, Holko said:

Nice job! Here's an attempt to balance the colours to pop a bit and make it less yellow:

 

Wow, that is much better! Thanks @Holko and @A. A. Ron for sharing.

 

[Quppa 217]

 

Mel Gibson is the latest Joe Rogan Experience guest - unfortunately The Patriot (and The River) soundtrack expansions didn't come up.

[Jamie Dutton 7,715]

It was a great episode 

[pete 1,049]

I'm hoping that Mark O'Connor was used more beyond the opening violin/fiddle part for the main theme suite. It's been a while since I listened to the soundtrack, but I think as far as the origninal soundtrack is concerned, it's just those couple of minutes. A standalone or expanded version of that first part of the suite is on my dream list!

 

Update & A Dream is Crushed! From Mark on Facebook just now...

 

Quote

I just played the music over the final credits Gabriel's Theme. And they paid me very well for that 2 minutes! Loved doing it for John Williams!

 

[Corellian2019 446]

Wonderful news, will definitely pick up this expansion. The film doesn't hold up as well now, but it has nostalgic value as one of those titles that enjoyed a lot of replay on my family's DVD player when I was growing up. And it's also one of those films that my history teacher couldn't (wasn't allowed to?) show us because it was rated R, and yet it constantly came up when we covered the Revolutionary War in class

[Chris ChrusherComix 67]

 

YES!!!!

I was thrilled to see it announced yesterday, awesome news and I always felt it's one of Williams's scores that needed expansion the most. The OST was somewhat short (and suffered from that similar OST weakness, especially from that era -- repetition of the main theme instead of covering more varied parts of the score, something that's great for casual listeners but not "I want more!" score lovers). The music as edited and arranged on the album version never seemed to carry the same weight as the music while watching the film, and weird edits were made on that album that always puzzled me. Only one edit I enjoy -- the album version of "Tavington's Trap" combined two of my favorite scenes into one -- as it made for a great listening experience, but broke up the narrative of each scene, so both versions would be appreciated. I'm not sure the entire album version would be included, as it seems fairly repetitive, although it's possible they were different performances. And the OST CD of this score is ridiculously easy to find cheap. I misplaced my copy somewhere in either my or my parent's homes, and instead of looking, I just bought one of the dozen or more on eBay for $5 shipped.

As many old school members here remember, I made a personal DVD-isolated set that was far too SFX-laden (that I can't wait to forever replace now!) in an attempt to hear the unreleased music better. There was just so much of it (including tracked music that seemed out of place as well) that one could tell there was likely more than we knew probably got edited out... and the fact that we're getting 3-CDs seems to back that hunch. Lots of atmospheric time period source music as well, which also could explain the extra CD too. (Someone mentioned that possibly David Arnold's rejected demo on here? Or would his name probably have to be mentioned...)

Can't wait to see the track titles and have it!

[Thor 9,081]

12 minutes ago, Chris ChrusherComix said:

The OST was somewhat short 

 

To be honest, 73 minutes is about 20 minutes too long.

[Meredith McKay 7,340]

2 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

73 minutes. So short.

67, if you remove the redundancy.

[Chris ChrusherComix 67]

Just now, Thor said:

 

73 minutes. So short.

Yes. When it's the Main theme repeated and a lot of of beautiful underscore left off of not only the album but the film, then very MUCH so. I've always pondered why expanded/complete collections are ever poo-poo'ed on. I am a fan of original album edits AND expanded editions. I want both, and the choice to buy both and listen to both. If we only had OSTs, we wouldn't have an enormous amount of music, some of it the best music to a particular film! But hell, 3 CDs is showing there's even more than I thought! Can't wait!
 

[Thor 9,081]

I don't consider it a redundancy. The repetition of tracks is part of its fabric.

[Chris ChrusherComix 67]

1 minute ago, Doo_liss said:

67, if you remove the redundancy.

Exactly! 

[Meredith McKay 7,340]

1 minute ago, Thor said:

I don't consider it a redundancy. The repetition of tracks is part of its fabric.

I don't consider it a redundancy.

Fixed

[Thor 9,081]

Like many JW albums, gives it a nice sonata form. Home-away-home again. Always loved the way he sometimes repeats tracks at beginnings and ends.

[Meredith McKay 7,340]

Just now, Thor said:

Like many JW albums, gives it a nice sonata form.

It's hell for us who can actually "see" the music. It's like deja vu, or seeing the same exact footage twice.

[Jurassic Shark 14,203]

6 minutes ago, Thor said:

Like many JW albums, gives it a nice sonata form. Home-away-home again. Always loved the way he sometimes repeats tracks at beginnings and ends.

 

It's a bit lazy when it's the same recording.

[Thor 9,081]

 

4 minutes ago, Doo_liss said:

It's hell for us who can actually "see" the music. It's like deja vu, or seeing the same exact footage twice.

 

Hell, really? Even if there is no exact replication of tracks, most musical works introduce some form of theme early on, and then repeats it at the end.

 

I've never had any issues with this. On the contrary, I've found it comforting. 

[Jurassic Shark 14,203]

4 minutes ago, Doo_liss said:

It's hell for us who can actually "see" the music. It's like deja vu, or seeing the same exact footage twice.

 

You're supposed to listen to the music.

[Chris ChrusherComix 67]

5 minutes ago, Thor said:

Like many JW albums, gives it a nice sonata form. Home-away-home again. Always loved the way he sometimes repeats tracks at beginnings and ends.

Enjoying the album arrangement does not mean you cannot enjoy the film presentation, and vice-versa. I enjoy both, and I'm only displeased if we don't get the option to buy both.

I also disliked it when whoever was arranging some of Williams's OSTs in that era was repeating either the same cue or a very close replay of it.

[Meredith McKay 7,340]

Just now, Thor said:

 

 

Even if there is no exact replication of tracks, most musical works introduce some form of theme early on, and then repeats it at the end. 

Obviously I am talking about exact copyoaste repetition, not development.

2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

You're supposed to listen to the music.

[Holko 11,054]

14 minutes ago, Chris ChrusherComix said:

But hell, 3 CDs is showing there's even more than I thought! Can't wait!

It's been confirmed by Roger that the 3rd disc is the OST (for whatever goddamn reason), just to curb that hype a bit.

[Davis 3,727]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

Like many JW albums, gives it a nice sonata form. Home-away-home again. Always loved the way he sometimes repeats tracks at beginnings and ends.

Exactly.

[Amer 2,393]

54 minutes ago, Holko said:

It's been confirmed by Roger that the 3rd disc is the OST (for whatever goddamn reason), just to curb that hype a bit.

Good . There is a better reason for that which means that the Ost is a unique program and edit. The first 2 discs will be whole and complete along with Alternates, source music and other unused pieces (if any)

[Davis 3,727]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

It's a bit lazy when it's the same recording.

But not in the case of Williams. That’s why I love the End Titles cue from TESB where Yoda’s Theme has a different tempo than the individual cue, sounding more cheerful, it feels like a concert suite. I love Williams’ way of reprising the main theme(s) in the end credits, and often it’s a different arrangement like e.g. in Memoirs of a Geisha with Sayuri’s Theme. Love how he plays around with certain themes instead of being lazy like so many composers who just put in all the themes at the end one after another using the same version. That’s one of the reasons why Williams is unique as he looks at these scores as standalone works of art, that’s why they exist so well on their own without the films they were composed for.

[Richard P 4,517]

I thought Intrada could use a few more hounds at their door, so I'll highlight Roger's latest:

 

(buried within https://www.facebook.com/groups/95015405220/permalink/10170816864430221/)

 

Quote

Yes...wasting people's money is the business we're in! It is a bit tiring that every time an expanded edition comes out with the original program retained people must gripe. As Drax said, "It returns with the inevitably of an unloved season." Speaking of Moonraker, the myth that it is a contractual obligation is about as persistent as the Moonraker tapes are lost. It's a creative decision, sometimes honoring the composer's wishes. Often the original program is included because it is artistically developed and/or long out of print and we want to preserve everything in a single package. That's what we do as a label, but you don't have to be on board with our mission or waste any money on it. That is entirely your call and I encourage you to do what you feel is right. As far as including it here it was a creative decision by the entire production team, including Doug and Mike.

 

So it sounds like Williams and Mike both had as much as say as Roger and Doug. We also don't know whether it's remastered/rebuilt, or the untouched original OST master, nor whether the price is leaping up by $10 as a result.

[Chris ChrusherComix 67]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

It's been confirmed by Roger that the 3rd disc is the OST (for whatever goddamn reason), just to curb that hype a bit.

Well, if remastered and a little better sound, that's ok too. For completeness's sake, it's fine, but like I said above, the OST is fairly easy to find cheap.
 

15 minutes ago, Davis said:

But not in the case of Williams. That’s why I love the End Titles cue from TESB where Yoda’s Theme has a different tempo than the individual cue, sounding more cheerful, it feels like a concert suite. I love Williams’ way of reprising the main theme(s) in the end credits, and often it’s a different arrangement like e.g. in Memoirs of a Geisha with Sayuri’s Theme. Love how he plays around with certain theme instead of being lazy like so many composers who just put in all the themes at the end onw after another using the same version. That’s one of the reasons why Williams is unique that he looks at these scores as standalone works of art, that’s why they exist so well on their own without the films they were composed for.

This! Changing it up is great... a near-identical cue, or even the same recording... it's lazy and kind of a space-waster.

[Quppa 217]

2 hours ago, Holko said:

It's been confirmed by Roger that the 3rd disc is the OST (for whatever goddamn reason), just to curb that hype a bit.

 

EDIT: Somehow missed @Richard P's reply right above, sorry.

 

Reposting a comment from him in https://www.facebook.com/groups/95015405220/ (the first sentence being a sarcastic rejoinder to someone commenting 'Yes a CD will contain the soundtrack released at the time just to make people waste money uselessly'):

 

Roger Feigelson said:

Yes...wasting people's money is the business we're in! It is a bit tiring that every time an expanded edition comes out with the original program retained people must gripe. As Drax said, "It returns with the inevitably of an unloved season." Speaking of Moonraker, the myth that it is a contractual obligation is about as persistent as the Moonraker tapes are lost. It's a creative decision, sometimes honoring the composer's wishes. Often the original program is included because it is artistically developed and/or long out of print and we want to preserve everything in a single package. That's what we do as a label, but you don't have to be on board with our mission or waste any money on it. That is entirely your call and I encourage you to do what you feel is right. As far as including it here it was a creative decision by the entire production team, including Doug and Mike.

 

I don't mind at all other than that it means CD3 isn't going to be chock-full of long-lost alternates and unreleased music.

[Richard P 4,517]

11 minutes ago, Quppa said:

I don't mind at all other than that it means CD3 isn't going to be chock-full of long-lost alternates and unreleased music.

 

They fill the set with the material that's available and that Williams allows them to include. If it's not Williams, they're damned if they include it, and damned if they don't. It also depends on alternates existing in the first place... not every project requires endless rewrites.

 

I definitely get a sense here (as I don't know the score or film at all) that there are expectations or hopes of there being a ton of alternates and source music that could fill an entire disc. However, if source isn't Williams he may veto it, and perhaps a bulk of the alternate or concert material is represented in the OST. Same as with JP3 - one or two alts aren't in the main/bonus program because they're in the remastered OST.

[Holko 11,054]

He didn't veto all the Sabrina source music that was by others. I'll mind the copypaste third disc that I'll never listen to if it means I'll have to pay fucking 15-20€ more for it, it was enough to have that with Spiderman 1-2. But we'll see.

[Richard P 4,517]

True, but it's a case by case basis, isn't it, perhaps depending on how Williams feels the music contributes to the listening experience.

 

There's a lot of theoretical discomfort imminently hovering this release, which may be explained by what Williams wanted to release, and that varies from film to film.

 

And we haven't even seen the tracklist......

[Holko 11,054]

This is why this teasing is bullshit! Don't tell us what's coming!

 

Also when is all the stuff we want finally coming? TELL US!!

[Trope 1,069]

Does the OST have any cross fading between tracks? I’m still put off that several Intrada releases have seemingly accidentally put gaps between tracks that should segue into each other.

This won’t be an instant purchase for me, as I’ve never heard the music nor seen the film (and I’ll need to confirm that the Intrada release is up to scratch). HOWEVER, I could easily be swayed as Williams’ 1999-2005 period is my personal favourite of his.

[Tom Guernsey 2,984]

I feel like every release needs a tick box complaints list (before and after release)… those who feel they need to express such complaints can simply tick to express any such complaint they may have rather than taking up space on the discussion thread.

[Holko 11,054]

6 minutes ago, Trope said:

(and I’ll need to confirm that the Intrada release is up to scratch)

It's Mike. It will be.

 

6 minutes ago, Trope said:

as I’ve never heard the music nor seen the film

Very good score, pretty alright watchable movie. Not a complete waste of time to catch up on it!

 

2 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

rather than taking up space on the discussion thread.

Ah you're right, we could discuss the contents... of wait it's not released yet. We could discuss the samples... oh wait no samples yet. We could discuss the tracklist... oh wait no tracklist yet.

[Tom Guernsey 2,984]

42 minutes ago, Holko said:

 

Ah you're right, we could discuss the contents... of wait it's not released yet. We could discuss the samples... oh wait no samples yet. We could discuss the tracklist... oh wait no tracklist yet.

Oh i appreciate there’s nothing specific to discuss yet, but pointlessly rehashing the same potential issues because label x does this or label y doesn’t do that is so dreary.

[Trope 1,069]

I apologise @Tom Guernsey, I didn’t mean to bring the mood down about this release. I’ve seen a lot of anticipation for it on the site over the last few years. I just wanted to share my thoughts about why I might hold off on grabbing it straight away.

[Tom Guernsey 2,984]

2 minutes ago, Trope said:

I apologise @Tom Guernsey, I didn’t mean to bring the mood down about this release. I’ve seen a lot of anticipation for it on the site over the last few years. I just wanted to share my thoughts about why I might hold off on grabbing it straight away.

Oh I’m certainly not singling anyone out,

apologies if you felt I was. It’s just one of those repeat things that seems to happen each time. I’m sure they also outweigh discussion of the actual music for many releases!

 

Though to be fair, I was really hoping this would be a new release of The Blue Max or Inchon so you can only imagine my disappointment ;-)

[Jurassic Shark 14,203]

New year, new Inchon.

[Jay 41,255]

4 hours ago, Chris ChrusherComix said:

(Someone mentioned that possibly David Arnold's rejected demo on here? Or would his name probably have to be mentioned...)

 

@TownerFan posted this on FSM:

 

"No David Arnold demos whatsoever in this release."

 

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=158930&forumID=1&archive=0

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,304]

That's unfortunate.

[TownerFan 5,554]

3 hours ago, Richard P said:

True, but it's a case by case basis, isn't it, perhaps depending on how Williams feels the music contributes to the listening experience.

 

There's a lot of theoretical discomfort imminently hovering this release, which may be explained by what Williams wanted to release, and that varies from film to film.

 

And we haven't even seen the tracklist......

 

This is what happens when speculation among fans goes a tad over the line. I totally get the passion for discussing minutiae, but nobody here has seen anything, so maybe it's wise waiting at least to see what's in these three discs before already lamenting discomfort or disappointment. I can tell you that the people working on these relaseses know very well how demanding film score fans are and they always do their best to please them.

 

I can also tell you that 99% of the fans will be very happy about this new release. Of course everything is up to be criticized or discussed and there will always be somebody whining for something, but if there is something we learned after almost 15 years of Matessino-curated JW releases by the niche labels is that everything is well accounted for. I'd also stop these wild speculations about John Williams vetoing this or that like a petty star. He has his own preferences and ideas of course, but at the same time he fully trusts Mike Matessino and the choices he makes. He's aware that these releases are made mainly for archival purposes, i.e. transferring the original elements in the best possible condition, and for the people who love to listen to more music.

 

1 hour ago, Thor said:

Indeed, Gerate. There's a whole separate topic in what you wrote there that would very interesting indeed. I feel so completely ancient in the film score world these days. And I'm not only talking about the C&C issue, which is old. But all those other things you mention. All this talk about what I consider micro issues -- spreadsheets, cross-fades, sound quality measured in waveforms, custom artwork, shipping updates etc. etc. It's all "on the spectrum", as they say.

 

There was a time not too long ago I just slapped on a cassette tape of a soundtrack I had copied, sometimes second generation copies even, and enjoyed the heck out of it. None of these issues ever occured to me. It was just listening to an album, period.

 

I'm still kinda stuck in that period in the way I listen to and enjoy soundtracks. It has to be really, really bad and noticeable for me to care. Like that first release of RAIN MAN.

 

Also, you often have to dig deep and hard to find discussions about the general musical qualities of things, you know -- the actual contents of the music, not everything around it. That doesn't only apply to JWFAN, btw (although it's more extreme), but also FSM and other places. I miss proper discussions about general musical aesthetics like we had 20+ years ago.

 

Discussing minutiae and details is part of the lore of being a collector of anything. Some of these discussions may borderline to obsession or even insanity in some cases, but when people become fixated with something so specific, that's what happens. I too like to discuss music in broad terms, going into the reasons why I like something and why it talks to me, but those are often better to do in live discussion with others. Also, the message board format kind of tend to create these circles of people talking always about the same things over and over, with small factions and teams. One should also say that often the very same topics are discussed simultaneously in several different places (here and FSM, mostly) and it tends to duplicate a lot of the noise among the soundtrack community. Some favorite topics also (the old complete scores vs. album selections) are totally and completely worn-out so there isn't anything to add other than repeating the same things over and over and over again. That's probably why some of the discussion moved to even more specific Facebook or Twitter groups, or why some people created tiny discussion groups on Telegram, Discord, Whatsapp and other messaging apps.

 

We may prefer how we discussed film music back in the 1990s, but that was now 30 years ago. The world changes, and people change too.

[Edmilson 9,797]

7 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

I can also tell you that 99% of the fans will be very happy about this new release. Of course everything is up to be criticized or discussed and there will always be somebody whining for something, but if there is something we learned after almost 15 years of Matessino-curated JW releases by the niche labels is that everything is well accounted for. I'd also stop these wild speculations about John Williams vetoing this or that like a petty star. He has his own preferences and ideas of course, but at the same time he fully trusts Mike Matessino and the choices he makes. He's aware that these releases are made mainly for archival purposes, i.e. transferring the original elements in the best possible condition, and for the people who love to listen to more music.

 

Exactly. If Mike is involved we can trust him and his input. I mean, if John Williams trusts him then we should to.

 

Can't wait to see the tracklist!