Luke Skywalker 2,050 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I feel bad for arnold now :/. Specially If he really wrote most or all of the score and thought it was his best work to date. bollemanneke and Davis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard P 4,433 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 His first answer (that he wrote the whole score) doesn't correlate in any way to his second answer... --- Anyway... I'd never expect rejected demos to appear on the same release as the actual score. It's a representation of JW's work, plus presenting work by someone else opens up the pandora's box that soundtrack producers evidently want to avoid: references to a less than perfect scoring process or material being thrown out. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 2,050 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 22 minutes ago, Richard P said: His first answer (that he wrote the whole score) doesn't correlate in any way to his second answer... He could mean he had written the whole score on paper or computer, but had only created some demos, or created them when they asked him to show them (in their previous collaborations he seems to imply the director-producer listened to the score at the scoring stage.) enderdrag64 and Davis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 8,849 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 At that time, Williams was at a place where he could pick and choose his projects based on personal interests. Like we've seen before and after....wanting to write Christmas music for HOME ALONE or Irish music for FAR & AWAY, loving the books of THE BOOK THIEF or MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA etc. I seem to remember reading something about him wanting to write music from the Revolutionary era, which may also account for some of the change, in addition to all the behind-the-scenes shenanigans that are mentioned in the Arnold interview quote above. Hopefully, the liner notes of this release will get into some of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dimitrescu 9,190 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I want a really juicy tell-all but all we'll probably get is the censored, sanitised network TV version of the story. bollemanneke and A. A. Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 8,849 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Probably. Do we know who's doing the liner notes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,693 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 21 minutes ago, Thor said: Probably. Do we know who's doing the liner notes? On 07/01/2025 at 11:15 PM, John Takis said: This was a bittersweet project for me, since it was the subject of my last conversation with Intrada founder Douglass Fake. I won't jump the gun by spilling any details about the new album, but this was one of Doug's favorite John Williams scores. I wish he was around to see the release reach like-minded fans, but I take some comfort in the fact that he had heard the master, read my notes, and seemed extremely happy with the way the whole production was shaping up. I hope everyone here will be as pleased as he was! Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 8,849 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 John Takis is good. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,412 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post John Takis 336 Posted January 12 Popular Post Share Posted January 12 5 hours ago, Thor said: John Takis is good. I appreciate the vote of confidence, Thor! I'm sorry to disappoint The Train Station, but there is no "juicy tell-all." The booklet does not address the Arnold demo, not because anything needed to be sanitized but because there's simply not much to tell. I have nothing to add to what Arnold himself has said. He was never formally contracted to write the score, so far as I can tell. Whoever ultimately made the decision to go with Williams over any other potential contenders, any internal debate was out of public view and more details would probably not be terribly illuminating or edifying. That Arnold felt hopeful enough to write and record a demo is an interesting bit of trivia. But for the notes, I wanted to keep the focus squarely on Williams and his music. ThomasFernando, GerateWohl, enderdrag64 and 21 others 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 13,910 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 7 minutes ago, John Takis said: the other contenders Do you have names here? 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Takis 336 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Do you have names here? 🤔 No, and I've edited my post for clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Quppa 205 Posted January 12 Popular Post Share Posted January 12 2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Do you have names here? 🤔 Arnold mentions that he'd heard the studio had reached out to James Horner (and John Williams) in that interview above. 9 hours ago, Richard P said: So when he says "Yeah, I’d written the whole score."... I assume based on what he says after, that he's saying that the rumours/reports were that he'd written the whole score. Sounds from the main answer like he wrote a synth demo. Seems to confirm that he didn't write anything but a main theme here: https://fxtwitter.com/DavidGArnold/status/1206005218732838913 Here's another interview where he talks about it (with @Maestro). Key points: He demoed one theme. He based it on a Welsh folk song. The demo was recorded with an orchestra. He has a recording of it which he likes very much. He didn't reuse the theme in future work. Sylvan, Edmilson, enderdrag64 and 9 others 5 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post A. A. Ron 2,123 Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 On 09/01/2025 at 11:37 AM, Holko said: Nice job! Here's an attempt to balance the colours to pop a bit and make it less yellow: Having sat with it a little bit, I think you were right to want to reduce the yellow. I've taken your more balanced revision and run it through Photoshop's "Color Pop" creative preset. It might be a bit much for the skin tones, but I think it at least brings out the reds in a nice way. Andy, BB-8 and Tom Guernsey 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,412 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 That's nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 40,693 Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 I moved @Yavar Moradiand @The Train Station's argument out to its own thread. Do not reply here about it. Post in that thread. Please keep this thread focused on The Patriot, thank you. Davis, Yavar Moradi, Ricard and 5 others 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,769 Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 I'm a bit late to the party but this is awesome .A true holy grail finally with a ton of unreleased music. That_Bloke, Edmilson and enderdrag64 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kingtolkien 20 Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 I am so happy with this release. I love the score and I really like the film too. I hope we get much unreleased music and many alternate tracks and not that much source music. Jay, GerateWohl and Davis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 13,910 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 I prefer source music over slightly alternate tracks. Corellian2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 10,866 Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 Well I hope it has all the source music and all the interesting alternates! Hope? Know. ThePenitentMan1, filmmusic, enderdrag64 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis 3,496 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 20 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Do you have names here? 🤔 Rocky Balboa. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pete 1,039 Posted January 14 Popular Post Share Posted January 14 I just listened to Parish Church Aflame for the first in a very long time. For some reason, listening to music written for a people-trapped-and being-burnt-alive-in-a-church scene never felt like the most positive way to start a day. But, well, it still isn't, but setting aside those facts and what people are experiencing in LA, I'd forgotten this is really beautiful music in the string elegy vein of other Williams string elegies ala Obi-Wan cuts Anakin's legs off and leaves him to burn in lava. Smeltington, MaxTheHouseelf, Jurassic Shark and 6 others 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuartalHarmony 723 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Jeez, mate, keep it light, willya? bollemanneke and pete 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dimitrescu 9,190 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 It's very dark and disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demondm810 415 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Looking forward to this release. Such a beautiful theme. Americana Williams is one of my favorite Williams. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,693 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 There's three themes in the score right? The main theme (The Patriot, The Family Farm, The Colonial Cause, Ann Recruits The Parishioners, Preparing For Battle, Yorktown and Return Home, The Patriot Reprise) The love theme (The Patriot, The Family Farm, Ann Recruits The Parishioners, Ann And Gabriel, Susan Speaks, The Patriot Reprise) The sad trumpet theme (The Family Farm 0:27, Redcoats At The Farm And The Death Of Thomas 1:35 & 3:35, The First Ambush And Remembering The Wilderness 0:00 & 2:14, Martin Vs. Tavington 0:36 & 2:04) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Know 376 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Where's the tracklist already?!? bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,693 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Intrada never reveals the tracklist ahead of being able to buy the title on their website. It was announced to go up for sale on Monday January 20th. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom 5,269 Posted January 14 Popular Post Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Dr. Know said: Where's the tracklist already?!? 1. "The Patriot" (Main theme) 2. "The Patriot" (Main theme) 3. "The Patriot" (Main theme) 4. "The Patriot" (Main theme) 5. "The Patriot" (Main theme) 6. "The Patriot" (Main theme) 7. "The Patriot" (Main theme) 8. "The Patriot" (Main theme) 9. "The Patriot" (Main theme) 10. "The Patriot" (Main theme reprise) Stark, Dr. Rick, crumbs and 14 others 3 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,412 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Jay said: There's three themes in the score right? The main theme (The Patriot, The Family Farm, The Colonial Cause, Ann Recruits The Parishioners, Preparing For Battle, Yorktown and Return Home, The Patriot Reprise) The love theme (The Patriot, The Family Farm, Ann Recruits The Parishioners, Ann And Gabriel, Susan Speaks, The Patriot Reprise) The sad trumpet theme (The Family Farm 0:27, Redcoats At The Farm And The Death Of Thomas 1:35 & 3:35, The First Ambush And Remembering The Wilderness 0:00 & 2:14, Martin Vs. Tavington 0:36 & 2:04) There is also a motif associated with Tavington, and a theme for the Colonial Cause. I don't have the original album, so I cannot place the specific tracks where each theme is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,693 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 minutes ago, JohnnyD said: I don't have the original album What Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,412 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 What I mean is I used to have the original album but gave it away after this was announced. I think the motif for Tavington is in one track on the original album: Tavington's Trap. The theme associated with the Colonial Cause is featured in The Patriot (and Reprise) and Facing the British Lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,756 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I've always thought that main trumpet theme is way too simplistic. At first I found it downright irritating. The love theme is on another level entirely. Steve and Dr. Know 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,693 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 12 minutes ago, JohnnyD said: The theme associated with the Colonial Cause is featured in The Patriot (and Reprise) and Facing the British Lines. You're right. Facing The British Lines 2:00, The Patriot/Reprise 5:26 Forgot about that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard P 4,433 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 One of my favourites is the one at 2:00 in Facing the British Lines - particularly that statement because it's more beautifully put - I'm not overly keen on the military-styled part of the score. That trumpet theme really has an air of menace for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 158 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 13/01/2025 at 12:16 AM, Quppa said: Arnold mentions that he'd heard the studio had reached out to James Horner (and John Williams) in that interview above. Seems to confirm that he didn't write anything but a main theme here: https://fxtwitter.com/DavidGArnold/status/1206005218732838913 Here's another interview where he talks about it (with @Maestro). Key points: He demoed one theme. He based it on a Welsh folk song. The demo was recorded with an orchestra. He has a recording of it which he likes very much. He didn't reuse the theme in future work. The demo was also released as "Watching the Wheat". https://www.musicmeter.nl/album/165654 Quppa, Once and ragoz350 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 8,849 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 minutes ago, fommes said: The demo was also released as "Watching the Wheat". https://www.musicmeter.nl/album/165654 For realz? Didn't he just say in that interview he never reused that theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,427 Posted January 14 Popular Post Share Posted January 14 3 hours ago, Jay said: There's three themes in the score right? The theme of 2M3 Rev - The Defeat at Charleston also recurs in 9M4 Rev 2 - On To Yorktown (Yorktown and the Return Home at 2:14), though only the later is on the OST. And there’s also a recurring theme associated with Susan that appears in (at least?) 2 cues: 7M2 Susan and Father and [7M6?] Susan Speaks. crumbs, Edmilson and Jay 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,693 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 40 minutes ago, fommes said: The demo was also released as "Watching the Wheat". https://www.musicmeter.nl/album/165654 I never knew this before, but if this quote from Arnold is real, then yeah, his demo has been available on CD for 17 years now. Huh. https://www.soundtrack-board.de/topic/8174-the-patriot-theme-von-david-arnold/ There's a copy on discogs for €19.75 https://www.discogs.com/release/7391359-Various-Songs-From-The-British-Academy-Vol-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 9,622 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Is it on YouTube? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,693 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Doesn't seem to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 10,866 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 The album seems to be on Spotify but many tracks including this one are greyed out: Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis 3,496 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 hours ago, JohnnyD said: What I mean is I used to have the original album but gave it away after this was announced. Nice save. You can stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 13,910 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 It can be downloaded from here for practically nothing: https://mp3sale.megaboon.com/release/songs_from_the_british_academy_vol.1/205569 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 40,693 Posted January 14 Popular Post Share Posted January 14 I completely forgot that @Falstaft posted this analysis of the score with a list of themes 22 (!) years ago: https://jwfan.com/?p=3427 He lists 8 themes, though 1 is not by Williams and 1 he says only appears once. BrotherSound, ragoz350, WampaRat and 3 others 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard P 4,433 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I remember someone was looking for that track at least a decade ago now, and it was available on iTunes. Doesn't seem to be listenable online (i.e. purely streamable) anywhere that I can see.... with any degrees of legality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quppa 205 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 hours ago, Jay said: I never knew this before, but if this quote from Arnold is real, then yeah, his demo has been available on CD for 17 years now. Huh. https://www.soundtrack-board.de/topic/8174-the-patriot-theme-von-david-arnold/ There's a copy on discogs for €19.75 https://www.discogs.com/release/7391359-Various-Songs-From-The-British-Academy-Vol-1 Did you (or someone else here) just buy it? It's been sold! 3 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: It can be downloaded from here for practically nothing: https://mp3sale.megaboon.com/release/songs_from_the_british_academy_vol.1/205569 The entire track can be previewed, albeit as a 22.05 kHz 32kbps mono MP3 (not sure I realised such a low bitrate was even possible). enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,693 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,412 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Credit goes to @Holko and @A. A. Ron for sharing their respective covers; thank you. After a bit of difficulty, I was able to put a cover that has a few minor differences, simply for consistency with previous archival releases of the Maestro's work. If Jim Titus did the packaging, I think this probably would have been the cover. That_Bloke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post That_Bloke 158 Posted January 15 Popular Post Share Posted January 15 4 hours ago, JohnnyD said: Credit goes to @Holko and @A. A. Ron for sharing their respective covers; thank you. After a bit of difficulty, I was able to put a cover that has a few minor differences, simply for consistency with previous archival releases of the Maestro's work. If Jim Titus did the packaging, I think this probably would have been the cover. Lovely work, but I think it needs to be brighter and louder, to achieve that "horrifically ruined" effect.* 😉 * jk, based on comments now transferred to another post. ThePenitentMan1, Edmilson, Brando and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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