Arnoldization

[thestat 473]

 A theory

David Arnold, with his score to Stargate, with the help of Nicholas Dodd, started an avalanche of large-scale massive orchestral works. Unlike Jarre with Lawrence of Arabia, Arnold entered a market hungry for Big American Product. No one exptected Stargate to be anything, but when it made money, the cards were on the table - Emmerich + Arnold = $?

 

It was the End of History, as Fukuyama claimed, Arnold and Emmerich were kings of the world, working with the no-fail Vajna and Kassar. Glorious mayhem, accompanied by the London Symphony - the greatest orchestra in the world. Except. This time Arnold would introduce a mallet longer than a man to make the percussion impacts required for their next project: Independence Day.

1990s and large orchestral scores. After Arnold did Stargate, everyone in the community felt they had to go big and even change their modes of approach.

 

Silvestri is probably the best example - so hard core and different sound. The same with any Renny Harlin scores

[NL197 526]

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,304]

Cool story

[Edmilson 9,797]

3 hours ago, thestat said:

1990s and large orchestral scores. After Arnold did Stargate, everyone in the community felt they had to go big and even change their modes of approach.

It's a shame that Hans Zimmer and John Powell (with his Bourne scores) undid all of that less than a decade later.

[Bayesian 1,492]

6 hours ago, thestat said:

 This time Arnold would introduce a mallet longer than a man to make the percussion impacts required for their next project: Independence Day.

Is that poetic license or did Arnold actually write a part for a percussionist that required a 6 ft mallet? And if it’s the latter, wtf do you hit with it??

 

Regarding your theory, I don’t feel as though Stargate’s score necessarily ushered in a distinctive new sound or approach. If the approach is “massive orchestral music,” we all know that trend goes back to JW in ‘77. But maybe I’m missing something in the scores written from 1995 on, I dunno. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,640]

7 hours ago, thestat said:

Glorious mayhem, accompanied by the London Symphony - the greatest orchestra in the world.

 

If you're referring to the London Symphony Orchestra, you're incorrect.

 

Stargate was performed by the Sinfonia Of London Orchestra.

 

Also bit orchestral scores had been around (again) before Stargate.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,304]

Stargate was probably the first big mainstream space sci-fi adventure score of that type for a number of years, probably since Masters of the Universe, aside from the Treks. Also check out Wing Commander from five years later for an extension of that Stargate sound.

 

 

 

[Davis 3,728]

7 hours ago, #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal said:

Also bit orchestral scores had been around (again) before Stargate.

Yes, I seem to remember a score that came out in 1993 called JURASSIC PARK. Or a 1992 score called FAR AND AWAY and a 1991 score called HOOK. Or two scores from 1989 called BATMAN and INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE.

[Thor 9,081]

7 hours ago, Bayesian said:

Regarding your theory, I don’t feel as though Stargate’s score necessarily ushered in a distinctive new sound or approach. If the approach is “massive orchestral music,” we all know that trend goes back to JW in ‘77. But maybe I’m missing something in the scores written from 1995 on, I dunno. 

 

No, you're not missing anything.

 

I love STARGATE. I think it's Arnold's best score. But it's a bizarre theory to hold. There is nothing groundbreaking or paradigm-shifting with the score. It tucks in there nicely, in a time and period where this kind of score was quite common, continuing with a style that had been popular for decades, especially for this kind of film.

[Davis 3,728]

STARGATE is one of the best scores of all time. 

[Jay 41,256]

I agree with JTW

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,304]

Joel Goldsmith's Stargate scores were better.

[karelm 3,159]

The problem I have with the theory is Arnold didn't orchestrate Stargate or Independence Day.  I don't think he planned on what exact percussion was used and how it was used.  He relied on experts to craft a score of polish and sparkle that clearly referenced old fashion scores and those of big budget blockbusters they were trying to make.

[Loert 2,864]

Was Stargate and its score really that popular? I'm sure it had some influence but saying that it started an avalance may be a bit of a stretch. Of course the main titles sequence was heavily inspired by Batman which came out only 5 years prior.

 

Jurassic Park was the most successful film of 1993 so I feel that that score perhaps had a bigger role in kickstarting an orchestral renaissance than Stargate (if there even was a renaissance).

 

I'm not a film music historian, these are just some musings.

[Tallguy 5,050]

Stargate is wonderful and yes it's big and lush. But it certainly wasn't out of step with what other scores were doing at the time. The Rocketeer was only a couple of years behind as was Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. Star Trek: Generations was the same month if you want big orchestras In Space. Cutthroat Island was the following year and I certainly don't think they were going in a different direction when someone burst into the room and said "I just saw Stargate!"

 

Oh, also the same month as Stargate: Patrick Doyle was getting so lush that the inset on the CD is wilted when he did Mary Shelly's Frankenstein.

 

EDIT: Sorry, Stargate was end of October. Close enough.

 

4 minutes ago, Loert said:

Of course the main titles sequence was heavily inspired by Batman which came out only 5 years prior.

What?

[Thor 9,081]

1 hour ago, Loert said:

Jurassic Park was the most successful film of 1993 so I feel that that score perhaps had a bigger role in kickstarting an orchestral renaissance than Stargate (if there even was a renaissance).

 

There was no renaissance. Big and bold, thematic orchestral scores for genre films like this had been churned out regularly throughout the 80s and 90s and continued well after STARGATE. It only goes slightly out-of-fashion in the early 2000s (again, out-of-fashion, it doesn't disappear, same as orchestral film music didn't disappear prior to STAR WARS) with Powell and BOURNE and all that stuff.

 

It was the name of the game at the time, and I'm happy to have been a teenager and young man in the time they were so popular. I don't gravitate towards those kinds of scores these days, true, but I have a soft spot for those I grew up with.

[Andy 5,585]

I just think it was in time with the 90s zeitgeist of EXTREEEEEMMMEE for everything. Waterworld, Cutthroat Island, Godzilla... everything was just trying to go big, and so were the films in which Arnold was involved.

[NL197 526]

1 hour ago, Lady Dimitrescu said:

Joel Goldsmith's Stargate scores were better.

 

1 hour ago, Loert said:

 Of course the main titles sequence was heavily inspired by Batman which came out only 5 years prior.

 

 

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

 

What?

 

 

They do the same exact thing: They are a series of close pans across what is either an object of some sort or caverns, we can't tell which at first. When the music builds to its climax the reveal is the Batman logo  / Ra's mask. 

So it's not the music that's inspired, it's the actual title sequence itself, the visual. 

[Mr. Hooper 4,222]

I remember some talk back in '94 that lauded 'Stargate' and its score for being "Star Warsian," but I don't see it as having ushered in a "new age" of big, orchestral scoring with composers trying to copy its sound.

 

If anything, it ushered in the Roland Emmerich age of big-budget extravaganzas that demanded big and bombastic music. Arnold was just along for the ride.

[Tallguy 5,050]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

I remember some talk back in '94 that lauded 'Stargate' and its score for being "Star Warsian," but I don't see it as having ushered in a "new age" of big, orchestral scoring with composers trying to copy its sound.

 

Hmmm. I think it's James Horner's Lawrence of Arabia, myself.

 

1 hour ago, NL197 said:

They do the same exact thing: They are a series of close pans across what is either an object of some sort or caverns, we can't tell which at first. When the music builds to its climax the reveal is the Batman logo  / Ra's mask. 

 

I think they do different things. The Batman title resolves into the actual thing you came to see the movie for.

[Mr. Hooper 4,222]

Just now, Tallguy said:

Hmmm. I think it's James Horner's David Arnold's Lawrence of Arabia, myself.

Yeah, just "Star Warsian" in its breadth and lushness.

[filmmusic 2,453]

Looking at the thread title, I thought I would see tips for how to become like Arnold!

 

 

 

[Tallguy 5,050]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

12 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Hmmm. I think it's James Horner's David Arnold's Lawrence of Arabia, myself.

Yeah, just "Star Warsian" in its breadth and lushness.

 

I knew what I wrote!  

[Mr. Hooper 4,222]

 

6 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

I knew what I wrote!  

Okay, I see what you meant. 

 

10 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

Looking at the thread title, I thought I would see tips for how to become like Arnold!

[Edmilson 9,797]

37 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

If anything, it ushered in the Roland Emmerich age of big-budget extravaganzas that demanded big and bombastic music. Arnold was just along for the ride.

Until The Patriot it was big and bombastic quality music. Since then Emmerich slowly gave up on having quality and memorable scores.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,640]

He married his composer, i think.

[Meredith McKay 7,340]

27 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

I think they do different things. The Batman title resolves into the actual thing you came to see the movie for.

You came to a movie to see a logo?

 

Wow. You must not have got out much

[Mr. Hooper 4,222]

8 minutes ago, Meredith McKay said:

You came to a movie to see a logo?

Reminds me that the Batman logo won the "Blight Award" in '89, because you could not escape it.

[thestat 473]

7 hours ago, Andy said:

I just think it was in time with the 90s zeitgeist of EXTREEEEEMMMEE for everything. Waterworld, Cutthroat Island, Godzilla... everything was just trying to go big, and so were the films in which Arnold was involved.

It's more to do with the sound, not so much the scale. Of course, large orchestral scores were the thing since 1977, and the Elfman/Williams whammy of 1989 made them even more so.

 

When Stargate hit, yes, we had crosscurrents with Goldenthal's Vampire and, especially, Doyle's huge Frankenstein. But there was something in the sound and volume of orchestration that changed in a lot of mainstream blockbusters around 1994-1995 that I credit to Stargate (or perhaps to temp-tracking).

 

Check out Silvestri before 1994, perhaps the Abyss. All very close-miked intimate sounding. 1995 he does Judge Dredd for Danny Cannon (Arnold launched that guy's career) - Sinfonia of London with a very lush expansive sound despite, or because, of the Silvestri-isms.

 

Debney - Hocus Pocus, a fun score with some nice moments. 1995, the biggest score of the year with Cutthroat Island and the LSO in very Arnoldian vein (and yes, Arnold was Harlin's first choice).

 

Shore - very intimate small-scale orchestral scoring up to about 1993. 1995. Seven has a massive orchestra with some of the greatest uses of brass ever.

 

Jones - starting out with the Dark Crystal but becoming a specialist in pop-leaning scores like Sea of Love, then busting out with Merlin and Dark City, 1997-1998, potentially some of the largest scores ever (all with LSO, but how many members?)  Even his Zimmer-y G.I. Jane is huge with LSO ripping it all out.

 

Goldsmith - The Mummy?

 

JNH - Waterworld being as big as it can be, continuing from Wyatt Earp in many ways.

 

I guess, I am probably not talking about Arnold himself changing the way films were scored in the 1990s but a heavy increase in bigger and more massive orchestral sound since 1994.

 

At the same time, of course, Zimmer and Mancina were decreasing the need for orchestral players with Speed and The Rock etc.

 

To wrap up, Jones' score for GI Jane - this did not have to be this massive with LSO hammering away, but it is, and it is all the better for it. A brilliant example of 90s film music 'excess'?

 

 

 

 

 

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,304]

 

 

[thestat 473]

Last of the Dogmen is amazing. Not really what I was talking about but a great example of what Arnold can do. 

 

I am talking more about Trevor Jones, one composing synth and instrument scores for most of the 1990s, and then doing Mohicans with limited orchestral players. After the so-called Arnoldization, he changes his approach to 'massive orchestral', all performed by the London Symphony Orchesta, including the following beauties:

 

 

Cleopatra is such an amaxing score, so beautiful:

 

 

[Thor 9,081]

I think it's more fruitful to just say "I like this sound" or "I like this score". That's enough. You don't have to attribute false, self-constructed historical importance to them, to add weight to your evaluation. There is no change to "massive orchestral" sounds (whatever that means) after STARGATE. There is no more, no less 'massive' orchestral scores being written ahead of it, from all the Horners and Poledourises and Williamses of this world, to about a decade after it.

[thestat 473]

 

Like all the nonsense you sprout about 'delicious darkness' and other self-made, academically inept but also rhetorically and discursively naive concepts you deploy to deliver your close textual readings of music

[NL197 526]

[Jurassic Shark 14,207]

Back on topic.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing