Behind the Moon - a Substack column about John Williams: A Composer's Life

[tranders65 96]

19 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

God, this is killing me. If you weren't great at the first chapter, you certainly are fantastic at cliffhangers.

Was gonna say the same thing - Tim, you're keeping me on the proverbial edge of my seat reading these.  Can't wait for the actual book!  

[JohnnyD 1,526]

3 hours ago, Maestro said:

Thanks for reading, everybody. Lots more to come!

 

 

I'll definitely be expounding on this (somewhat surprising) aspect, and the intimidating act of dialoguing with him when he's not jovially promoting something. He is the smartest person I have ever met.

 

Absolutely. Looking forward to more. Also, once again leaving it on a cliffhanger. I love it! I can't wait to read about the next meeting next week.

[Marian Schedenig 10,121]

I get seriously stressed out just reading these accounts!

[Romão 2,416]

I would buy a book about the writing of this book. Gripping stuff

[Meredith McKay 7,843]

Tim Grieving: A Composer's Biographer's Life

[Loert 2,942]

Why does this read like the opening to a fan fic?

[artguy360 2,011]

I'm really enjoying reading these blog posts. To read how JW went from personally asking you not to write the book to giving you a full on critique of your first chapter is a pretty big turnaround. Great stuff!

[mrbellamy 7,278]

I think infra dig is pretty much the official JWFan motto.

[Meredith McKay 7,843]

11 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

I think infra dig is pretty much the official JWFan motto.

Is it infra dig to listen to soundtracks?

[Tallguy 5,606]

4 minutes ago, Meredith McKay said:

Is it infra dig to listen to soundtracks?

 

No. But the prequels were infra dig.

[BB-8 4,958]

5 minutes ago, Meredith McKay said:

Is it infra dig to listen to soundtracks?

Not at all, when listened in isolation without the distraction of the film.

[Sunshine Reger 3,649]

20 hours ago, Loert said:

Why does this read like the opening to a fan fic?

Now that I think of it, it reads exactly like the fanfic Wagner wrote about meeting Beethoven....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/A_pilgrimage_to_Beethoven%3B_a_novel_(IA_cu31924022158822).pdf

Quote

 

[Tom 5,591]

Wagner later realized that knocking on Beethoven's door wasn't the best way to get his attention.   

[igger6 990]

This is riveting, winsome, exhilarating writing!  I'm truly devouring every word.  (And the interspersed film stills are hilariously well-chosen.)  Honestly, the burden is on the book to live up to the experience of reading about its creation.  Thanks for being so generous with your story, @Maestro.

[BB-8 4,958]

2 hours ago, Tom said:

Wagner later realized that knocking on Beethoven's door wasn't the best way to get his attention.   

[Marian Schedenig 10,121]

12 hours ago, igger6 said:

Honestly, the burden is on the book

 

No, that's the other Tim (@mahler3)… 

 

 

[igger6 990]

7 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

No, that's the other Tim (@mahler3)… 

 

 

 

In fairness, when the book comes out, I'm sure Tim will be on it like white on rice.

[Brando 2,459]

@Maestro is it revealed in the book how Ken Wannberg got his nickname “Wampi” (or is it Wompi?)? It’s used in a few cue titles and we found out a little while ago it was a nickname, but then it got a little more confusing when you see it in cue title (“Wompi Intro/Outro” for the JP Theme album track, and “Wompi’s Wrench” from The Lost World).

[Marian Schedenig 10,121]

35 minutes ago, Brando said:

@Maestro is it revealed in the book how Ken Wannberg got his nickname “Wampi” (or is it Wompi?)? It’s used in a few cue titles and we found out a little while ago it was a nickname, but then it got a little more confusing when you see it in cue title (“Wompi Intro/Outro” for the JP Theme album track, and “Wompi’s Wrench” from The Lost World).

 

Even more confusingly, it always reminds me of "Wumpus".

[Maestro 1,200]

1 hour ago, Brando said:

@Maestro is it revealed in the book how Ken Wannberg got his nickname “Wampi” (or is it Wompi?)? It’s used in a few cue titles and we found out a little while ago it was a nickname, but then it got a little more confusing when you see it in cue title (“Wompi Intro/Outro” for the JP Theme album track, and “Wompi’s Wrench” from The Lost World).

That nickname was given to him by Lionel Newman. Neither JW nor Wannberg could remember how or why the name got mutated into that, but it stuck!

[Meredith McKay 7,843]

1 hour ago, Brando said:

@Maestro is it revealed in the book how Ken Wannberg got his nickname “Wampi” (or is it Wompi?)? It’s used in a few cue titles and we found out a little while ago it was a nickname, but then it got a little more confusing when you see it in cue title (“Wompi Intro/Outro” for the JP Theme album track, and “Wompi’s Wrench” from The Lost World).

Wait when?

[mrbellamy 7,278]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

That nickname was given to him by Lionel Newman. Neither JW nor Wannberg could remember how or why the name got mutated into that, but it stuck!

 

 

[Brando 2,459]

1 hour ago, Meredith McKay said:

Wait when?

When it was revealed? I believe Mike or Jay mentioned it somewhere kind of off handedly as if it wasn’t one of JWFans biggest mysteries (WHAT THE HECK DOES WOMPI’S WRENCH MEAN?!?!?!).

[Meredith McKay 7,843]

20 minutes ago, Brando said:

When it was revealed? I believe Mike or Jay mentioned it somewhere kind of off handedly as if it wasn’t one of JWFans biggest mysteries (WHAT THE HECK DOES WOMPI’S WRENCH MEAN?!?!?!).

All I remember is @Jay talking with Mike on Legacy of JW, and I suggested he ask about it, and then him NOT asking about WOMPI lol.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,644]

3 hours ago, Maestro said:

That nickname was given to him by Lionel Newman. Neither JW nor Wannberg could remember how or why the name got mutated into that, but it stuck!

 

Only thing I can think of is maybe he was saying "Wannby" and they misheard it as "Wompi".

[Meredith McKay 7,843]

2 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Only thing I can think of is maybe he was saying "Wannby" and they misheard it as "Wompi".

Wannabe?

[Incanus 5,858]

1 hour ago, Meredith McKay said:

All I remember is @Jay talking with Mike on Legacy of JW, and I suggested he ask about it, and then him NOT asking about WOMPI lol.

Wompi/Wampi came up in the Legacy of John Williams podcast interview with the woodwind player Phil Ayling, who mentioned it in passing during the interview.

 

https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2024/05/30/phil-ayling-podcast/

 

 

[mrbellamy 7,278]

Fridays with John

[Mr. Hooper 5,021]

Fascinating stuff.

 

"I learned pretty quickly that if I asked about most of his film scores, he could call up barely any details; that was simply data he had chosen not to store."

 

This struck me as interesting... One might be tempted to read something into it.

[JohnnyD 1,526]

Really amazing. Thank you, Tim.

[geom_00 92]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Fascinating stuff.

 

"I learned pretty quickly that if I asked about most of his film scores, he could call up barely any details; that was simply data he had chosen not to store."

 

This struck me as interesting... One might be tempted to read something into it.

I have heard numerous times that John really doesn't listen to his own scores all that much, or really like *like* listening to them, as he always feels he could have done more.  A note here, and accidental there, to make it better.

 

IIRC, one of the only pieces of his that he likes is Yoda's theme...

 

/Don't quote me on these though, I am 95% sure I have heard these things.

[JohnnyD 1,526]

3 minutes ago, geom_00 said:

I have heard numerous times that John really doesn't listen to his own scores all that much, or really like *like* listening to them, as he always feels he could have done more.  A note here, and accidental there, to make it better.

 

IIRC, one of the only pieces of his that he likes is Yoda's theme...

 

/Don't quote me on these though, I am 95% sure I have heard these things.

 

Timestamp: 8:47.

 

[Sunshine Reger 3,649]

41 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Fascinating stuff.

 

"I learned pretty quickly that if I asked about most of his film scores, he could call up barely any details; that was simply data he had chosen not to store."

 

This struck me as interesting... One might be tempted to read something into it.

Immense, marvelously developed and specialized working memory and a rapid pace of work. Wiliams gets the job done and then moves to the next one. He is a tactician more than a strategist. Like a computer program that calculates but does not save most of the results.

[Maurizio 5,835]

17 minutes ago, geom_00 said:

I have heard numerous times that John really doesn't listen to his own scores all that much, or really like *like* listening to them, as he always feels he could have done more.  A note here, and accidental there, to make it better.

 

I believe that some of his public comments on that front are a bit of a stock answer to avoid looking pompous or egocentric, yet it's true that his mindset is one of constant improvement and hardly fully satisfied with anything he has done. All that being said, I'm quite sure he's very proud of many things he has written, but his down-to-earth and gentlemanly demeanor probably suggests him that is not elegant or proper to put it under the spotlight.

 

He's really a man of a long-gone era.

[bollemanneke 3,999]

I wonder why he doesn't really remember details about his film scores. And we are so lucky he helped with the book.

[bollemanneke 3,999]

Sorry if this has already been asked, Maestro, but did you speak to Chris Columbus? If so, long?

[Thor 9,308]

This has been very fascinating to read, and I look forward to more details about the sessions.

 

As I've told Tim off-board, it's also with a tinge of sadness. When I first started thinking seriously about doing a Williams book 20 years ago or so (there was even a publisher onboard for a while in the 2010s), it was exactly these kinds of encounters, as described in the most recent article, that I pictured in my daydreams. Although in them, Williams had intimate knowledge of all the titles he had worked on, as I laid them out in front of him on several sheets of paper, LOL! Be it film, TV, concert works, whatever. But that's just my own geekhood transcribed onto him, which isn't fair.

 

Thankfully, most of that sadness and melancholy and ENVY have since transformed into sheer enthusiasm for Tim's project. The important thing is that we get a document like this before it's too late, not who gets to do it.

[Tom 5,591]

Excellent read.  You have lived out every fanboy's dream--you must have wished upon the right star.  

 

 

[Maestro 1,200]

17 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Sorry if this has already been asked, Maestro, but did you speak to Chris Columbus? If so, long?

 

I did! At least an hour. He gave me fantastic quotes about all five of their collaborations, and more. Lovely guy.

[bollemanneke 3,999]

Thank you! Again, apologies for potential repetition, but have you ever talked about, or considered, releasing all your audio interviews? Is that something that might ever happen in some way or another, or were those just the means you happened to need to write the book and are they not for listening?

[Maestro 1,200]

2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Thank you! Again, apologies for potential repetition, but have you ever talked about, or considered, releasing all your audio interviews? Is that something that might ever happen in some way or another, or were those just the means you happened to need to write the book and are they not for listening?

 

I would have to get permission from any of the interviewees to release them in audio (or video) form. And I may do that if I can find a new outlet for some/all of them down the road. But I will at the very least include little snippets (like the Richard Dreyfuss one) in the coming months.

[JohnnyD 1,526]

3 hours ago, Maurizio said:

 

I believe that some of his public comments on that front are a bit of a stock answer to avoid looking pompous or egocentric, yet it's true that his mindset is one of constant improvement and hardly fully satisfied with anything he has done. All that being said, I'm quite sure he's very proud of many things he has written, but his down-to-earth and gentlemanly demeanor probably suggests him that is not elegant or proper to put it under the spotlight.

 

He's really a man of a long-gone era.

 

Definitely; his humility shines forth. Also, I'm glad to see you back, Maurizio. Looking forward to more from The Legacy of John Williams.

[GerateWohl 5,917]

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Thank you! Again, apologies for potential repetition, but have you ever talked about, or considered, releasing all your audio interviews? Is that something that might ever happen in some way or another, or were those just the means you happened to need to write the book and are they not for listening?

All these Audio and Video interviews should be released in that superfan 15-DVD box that I am dreaming of together with all of Spielberg's videos from Williams' scoring sessions. 

[mrbellamy 7,278]

5 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Fascinating stuff.

 

"I learned pretty quickly that if I asked about most of his film scores, he could call up barely any details; that was simply data he had chosen not to store."

 

This struck me as interesting... One might be tempted to read something into it.

 

Tim, does anything come to mind regarding his film scores that you were particularly surprised he didn't have an answer for? Or even a whole line of questioning that you abandoned because he just wasn't into it or it was just obviously a dead end?  

[Marian Schedenig 10,121]

10 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

Tim, does anything come to mind regarding his film scores that you were particularly surprised he didn't have an answer for? Or even a whole line of questioning that you abandoned because he just wasn't into it or it was just obviously a dead end?  

 

Also: Were it specifically the film scores he didn't have particular recollections about, or the entire projects as well? I.e. were there other aspects about the film projects he was involved in that left more memories related to the actual projects, like (since you mentioned people) the people he collaborated with?

 

Continued thanks for sharing these insights, Tim. They feel like part of the book already, and at the same time make it even harder to wait for the actual proper book.

[BB-8 4,958]

Wouldn't these chapters from "Behind the Moon" together with selected essays from "The Legacy of John Williams" potentially make a nice fan-sourced follow-up book?

[Maestro 1,200]

49 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Tim, does anything come to mind regarding his film scores that you were particularly surprised he didn't have an answer for? Or even a whole line of questioning that you abandoned because he just wasn't into it or it was just obviously a dead end?  

 

There are the scores he has often told stories about in interviews—Jaws, Star Wars, Raiders, Schindler's—and those repeated stories have reinforced his memories of the music and the films (although these were the ones I didn't really bother to task him about, because there wasn't much mystery left). Then there are scores that he has arranged as concert suites, and those have stayed fresher. But with almost anything else—A.I., Empire of the Sun, Always—the details of the music became extremely vague. Asking about specific themes, let alone individual cues or scenes, proved to be mostly futile. (I particularly wanted to go deep on A.I., but it wasn't meant to be!)

 

35 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Also: Were it specifically the film scores he didn't have particular recollections about, or the entire projects as well? I.e. were there other aspects about the film projects he was involved in that left more memories related to the actual projects, like (since you mentioned people) the people he collaborated with?

 

Continued thanks for sharing these insights, Tim. They feel like part of the book already, and at the same time make it even harder to wait for the actual proper book.

 

Yes, the projects themselves often had memories attached. He could tell me a thing or two about most of the directors he worked with, even the one-offs in the ’60s. And sometimes the actors or literary sources (etc.) drew up an anecdote or memory. Just not the score!

 

Thanks for the all the positive feedback, everyone. It means a lot to me.

[artguy360 2,011]

Another fantastic blog post. It must have been both a privilege and rather intimidating to have JW apply his exacting nature and high standard he holds for his own music to your writing. What an amazing experience you've had!

[mrbellamy 7,278]

11 hours ago, Thor said:

This has been very fascinating to read, and I look forward to more details about the sessions.

 

As I've told Tim off-board, it's also with a tinge of sadness. When I first started thinking seriously about doing a Williams book 20 years ago or so (there was even a publisher onboard for a while in the 2010s), it was exactly these kinds of encounters, as described in the most recent article, that I pictured in my daydreams. Although in them, Williams had intimate knowledge of all the titles he had worked on, as I laid them out in front of him on several sheets of paper, LOL! Be it film, TV, concert works, whatever. But that's just my own geekhood transcribed onto him, which isn't fair.

 

Thankfully, most of that sadness and melancholy and ENVY have since transformed into sheer enthusiasm for Tim's project. The important thing is that we get a document like this before it's too late, not who gets to do it.

 

The saddest thing to me about this latest post is that it still doesn't sound like Williams is 100% at peace with it. The "biography-victim" line is hysterical, though, and I'm happy that he eventually took the attitude that if it's gonna be out there, then at least he better make sure it's credible. 

 

Which makes me all the more grateful that Tim put both himself and JW in an uncomfortable position and gently forced this issue because a biography isn't really for the subject, anyway, it's for all of us and generations down the line who believe in his music, artistry, and impact. Somebody needed to get a real, comprehensive series of interviews with this man, not a puff piece about his greatest hits or a rare peek into one area of special interest. I envy the discussions an actual JWFan member got to have with Mr Williams but not how much Tim got beat up for it lol, he really managed the impossible and sounds like he made the most of it. And we'll get to be a fly on the wall. 

 

I also find it just as valuable that this opportunity is clarifying what are the things we're just never going to get answered by him. Like I always thought wouldn't it have been cool to get an interview that went through one score from beginning to end, so I'm satisfied all the breakdowns and analyses can be left to us. 

 

Also regarding this quote...

 

Quote

He frequently reminded me I was so young, and that he would like to know how “Tim Greiving” (he sometimes referred to me in the third person) would approach this book in ten or twenty years.

 

...there's always the second edition

[GerateWohl 5,917]

All we can read here about Williams' ambition about what a good biography is, makes it to me unlikely that he is happy with the "Music by John Williams" documentary.

 

I am looking forward to the book.