Behind the Moon - a Substack column about John Williams: A Composer's Life

[Mr. Hooper 5,022]

8 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

All we can read here about Williams' ambition about what a good biography is, makes it to me unlikely that he is happy with the "Music by John Williams" documentary.

I bet he thought it was mainly a superficial puff piece, and would've liked something more in the vein of 'Ennio.'

[GerateWohl 5,918]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

I bet he thought it was mainly a superficial puff piece, and would've liked something more in the vein of 'Ennio.'

Everyone would have.

 

On the other hand he might be happy, if it doesn't go too deep and doesn't expose his private life more than necessary.

 

I guess, that is the twist and the contradiction Williams is feeling about these projects. It better be good but better be not violate his privacy. The result is doomed to be a painful compromise in both directions.

 

Seems Tim found a good way to make the best out of it, maybe finding the right words to tell about private stories.

[Amer 2,524]

Just caught up all those blogs. thanks Tim. I've just subscribed. 

[bollemanneke 3,999]

Maestro, another question that came to mind last night. What was interviewing Spielberg like? Or more specifically, how on earth did you go about that? I imagine for someone writing about JW, you must have had a million questions for him. Was it easy to narrow down what you wanted/had to ask him?

[Maurizio 5,836]

9 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

The saddest thing to me about this latest post is that it still doesn't sound like Williams is 100% at peace with it. The "biography-victim" line is hysterical, though, and I'm happy that he eventually took the attitude that if it's gonna be out there, then at least he better make sure it's credible. 

 

Which makes me all the more grateful that Tim put both himself and JW in an uncomfortable position and gently forced this issue because a biography isn't really for the subject, anyway, it's for all of us and generations down the line who believe in his music, artistry, and impact. Somebody needed to get a real, comprehensive series of interviews with this man, not a puff piece about his greatest hits or a rare peek into one area of special interest. I envy the discussions an actual JWFan member got to have with Mr Williams but not how much Tim got beat up for it lol, he really managed the impossible and sounds like he made the most of it. And we'll get to be a fly on the wall. 

 

I also find it just as valuable that this opportunity is clarifying what are the things we're just never going to get answered by him. Like I always thought wouldn't it have been cool to get an interview that went through one score from beginning to end, so I'm satisfied all the breakdowns and analyses can be left to us.

 

I think you got some key points here worth of discussion. I'll start by saying that I've already read Tim's book (he very kindly offered me the manuscript for an advance reading and some feedback), so some of my thoughts may be coloured by that.

 

First, I believe it's totally the subject's right to prefer not having anything biographical out in the public (at least until he's alive) and anyone should be okay in respecting that wish. Despite he's a public figure and a very famous person, it doesn't mean we have a right in wanting to know everything about John Williams. He's a world-renowned artist for sure, but he's also human being with a right to privacy. We have his own art already, which he produced aplenty, to enjoy and study. In many ways, I think the best we can do to understand the man is just looking at him through the prism of his music.

 

Within myself, I always motivated Williams' reticence to cooperate with anything biography-oriented to his proverbial modesty and humility, but now I believe more than ever that it had more to do with him feeling uncomfortable with the idea of being forced to sit down and look at his life retrospectively. It's one thing to give a 30-minute talk in front of the camera for a DVD featurette, or speaking with a journalist over the phone about a specific project, but a whole other having regular scheduled meetings with the same person for an unspecified amount of time to talk about his whole life. Williams has always been a man living in the present tense, constantly keeping himself very busy with work and, as he said many times, looking to what was on his desk at the moment. Being put in the position of staying still and look back at both his successes (many) and disappointments (very few) probably felt wrong to his ethic. As many of the children of the Depression era, Williams grew up with an old-school mentality of duty and workmanship, i.e. you're only as good as the effort you put in your work, and that kept reverberating throughout all of his life. Therefore, there was really no time or value in feeling okay with a retrospective.

 

What happened in the last 6-7 years, especially after turning 90, getting so many accolades and baths of love, but mainly finally slowing down a bit in terms of workload, might've helped him softening a bit with the idea that at least something retrospective was starting to make sense. I don't think it's a coincidence wthat he allowed a lot more of his scores being released in expanded form and also finally conceded to release The Sugarland Express, which he always adamantly opposed. Yet, as Tim revealed in his juicy Substack pieces, he still had reticence specifically about a biography. My theory then is that he chose to let the guard down because a) he started to like and trust the writer and b) he mellowed to the idea that a book on his life and work would've been out nonetheless at this point of his life, either with his cooperation or not (winning the trust of the Williams family as well was probably crucial too, I guess). Once you've read the book, you'll probably understand better why Williams always kept some aspects of his life very guarded, but at the same time you'll have a better understanding of the man behind the Maestro, to use the catchprase of Bouzereau's documentary. As it's already evident from the Substack pieces, he comes out as a very relatable and genuine person, kind and loving, yet very demanding first towards himself, with an ironclad discipline and work ethic.

 

What Tim went through is certainly an adventure on earth in itself, with so many hills to cycle up and down in order to get to the spaceship on time. I won't give you my thoughts about the book itself yet other than saying that I liked it a lot and fulfilled a lot of what I was expecting. The fact this happened because of the temerity and the tenacity of a fan (in the best possible sense of the term) gives a lot to ponder about how the sincere love for something is the greatest power one can use to achieve results. As Joseph Campbell used to say, "follow your bliss and the universe will start speaking to you."

 

Lastly, I'd add that John Williams is such a multi-faceted artist and figure that this won't be the sole biography we'll get in the years to come. Like we got multiple ones for Mozart,Beethoven, Brahms, Copland, Bernstein etc., we'll get more for him. This will be the only one the composer cooperated with for sure, but his towering presence over the art and craft of music (and film) throughout in between the 20th and 21st century is such that a lot more is there to still explore... What Tim did is broke the ceiling and finally let the light shine in, but I am pretty confident more scholars, students and writers will choose John Williams as the subject of their books.

 

4 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

All we can read here about Williams' ambition about what a good biography is, makes it to me unlikely that he is happy with the "Music by John Williams" documentary.

 

Quite the contrary, he was very happy at how it turned out. The documentary was done in full cooperation with Williams and he dictated a lot of what you've seen. From what I've understood, he had a similar approach to the one he took towards the book, i.e. since it was about likely to happen no matter if he wanted or not, he chose to cooperate and give his own blessing. The style and the tone of the film are the outcome of the director's choices, but keep in mind this thing also had a dozen of producers attached to it (like everything in Hollywood these days) and several of them had likely stakeholder's powers.

[GerateWohl 5,918]

Why should Williams have an issue with looking back at his life?

 

The biggest issue that I might have with it at his age would be the ambition to have all and complete information at hand at once.

Because nothing would be more annoying to me than giving dozens of interviews. Then the book comes out and the first nerd asks, why is this or that not mentioned, and you think, damn, I forgot about that.

[Amer 2,524]

Yes I agree. Specifically point 'B' where I feel that Williams only relented that since an unauthorized book might eventually get published posthumously or in his lifetime it would be better to at least set the tone right with all the facts and as well as keeping the personal elements shielded within reason.

 

We have to appreciate and show indebtedness to Tim Greiving for his persistence and the story he has revealed is nothing short of a cliffhanger series. He dared to do what others could never do. An act parallel to what Indiana Jones would achieve in the cinematic world. 

 

Also when the  plan came to do the documentary perhaps that was something that also shaped Williams mood to get the book issue sorted out in the same vein. I believe it was an internal journey for the maestro himself too. 

 

Salute to both Tim and Bouzereau in accomplishing the impossible.

 

[BB-8 4,959]

@Maurizio: "I think the best we can do to understand the man is just looking at him through the prism of his music."

 

Exactly that!

[mrbellamy 7,278]

2 hours ago, Maurizio said:

Lastly, I'd add that John Williams is such a multi-faceted artist and figure that this won't be the sole biography we'll get in the years to come. Like we got multiple ones for Mozart,Beethoven, Brahms, Copland, Bernstein etc., we'll get more for him. This will be the only one the composer cooperated with for sure, but his towering presence over the art and craft of music (and film) throughout in between the 20th and 21st century is such that a lot more is there to still explore... What Tim did is broke the ceiling and finally let the light shine in, but I am pretty confident more scholars, students and writers will choose John Williams as the subject of their books.

 

Agree and this is what I meant by saying biographies aren't for the person in question. Of course I believe Williams should have some control over what is and isn't published about him while he's alive (and his estate will also have that right) but that's why it feels like such a big deal that somebody who has a clue got a chance to iron all of that out with him in person, try to clarify the record in collaboration with him and investigate whatever relevant public statements and non-statements he has left to make, from beginning to end. And not just Williams, but all these other people who crossed paths with him who are old or getting up there, and including several who died since Tim interviewed them. It's also what's particularly special about your podcast.

 

There are always plenty of interviews with Williams and there will be other biographies and deeper dives into particular areas, but this is inevitably going to be a big reference going forward. Like how any Beatles book always ends up grabbing from the Hunter Davies bio even if it's open to criticism. 

[Maurizio 5,836]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Why should Williams have an issue with looking back at his life?

 

The biggest issue that I might have with it at his age would be the ambition to have all and complete information at hand at once.

Because nothing would be more annoying to me than giving dozens of interviews. Then the book comes out and the first nerd asks, why is this or that not mentioned, and you think, damn, I forgot about that.

 

It's just how his brain is wired, I think. He very much prefers to focus on what he's doing at the moment rather than worrying too much about his legacy or what people may think of him in the future. Like every human being, I guess he has his own set of insecurities, but he lived a charmed life, not just professionally, so there's no need for him to secure his image for posterity.

 

Plus, let's not forget he's also a Hollywood creature, therefore he felt more than fine in promulgating the "print the legend"-type of narrative on many circumstances. It's part of his character, too. Despite being a humble man, he likes to entertain people and knows how to deliver a good punchline.

[JohnnyD 1,527]

4 hours ago, Maurizio said:

 

I think you got some key points here worth of discussion. I'll start by saying that I've already read Tim's book (he very kindly offered me the manuscript for an advance reading and some feedback), so some of my thoughts may be coloured by that.

 

First, I believe it's totally the subject's right to prefer not having anything biographical out in the public (at least until he's alive) and anyone should be okay in respecting that wish. Despite he's a public figure and a very famous person, it doesn't mean we have a right in wanting to know everything about John Williams. He's a world-renowned artist for sure, but he's also human being with a right to privacy. We have his own art already, which he produced aplenty, to enjoy and study. In many ways, I think the best we can do to understand the man is just looking at him through the prism of his music.

 

Within myself, I always motivated Williams' reticence to cooperate with anything biography-oriented to his proverbial modesty and humility, but now I believe more than ever that it had more to do with him feeling uncomfortable with the idea of being forced to sit down and look at his life retrospectively. It's one thing to give a 30-minute talk in front of the camera for a DVD featurette, or speaking with a journalist over the phone about a specific project, but a whole other having regular scheduled meetings with the same person for an unspecified amount of time to talk about his whole life. Williams has always been a man living in the present tense, constantly keeping himself very busy with work and, as he said many times, looking to what was on his desk at the moment. Being put in the position of staying still and look back at both his successes (many) and disappointments (very few) probably felt wrong to his ethic. As many of the children of the Depression era, Williams grew up with an old-school mentality of duty and workmanship, i.e. you're only as good as the effort you put in your work, and that kept reverberating throughout all of his life. Therefore, there was really no time or value in feeling okay with a retrospective.

 

What happened in the last 6-7 years, especially after turning 90, getting so many accolades and baths of love, but mainly finally slowing down a bit in terms of workload, might've helped him softening a bit with the idea that at least something retrospective was starting to make sense. I don't think it's a coincidence wthat he allowed a lot more of his scores being released in expanded form and also finally conceded to release The Sugarland Express, which he always adamantly opposed. Yet, as Tim revealed in his juicy Substack pieces, he still had reticence specifically about a biography. My theory then is that he chose to let the guard down because a) he started to like and trust the writer and b) he mellowed to the idea that a book on his life and work would've been out nonetheless at this point of his life, either with his cooperation or not (winning the trust of the Williams family as well was probably crucial too, I guess). Once you've read the book, you'll probably understand better why Williams always kept some aspects of his life very guarded, but at the same time you'll have a better understanding of the man behind the Maestro, to use the catchprase of Bouzereau's documentary. As it's already evident from the Substack pieces, he comes out as a very relatable and genuine person, kind and loving, yet very demanding first towards himself, with an ironclad discipline and work ethic.

 

What Tim went through is certainly an adventure on earth in itself, with so many hills to cycle up and down in order to get to the spaceship on time. I won't give you my thoughts about the book itself yet other than saying that I liked it a lot and fulfilled a lot of what I was expecting. The fact this happened because of the temerity and the tenacity of a fan (in the best possible sense of the term) gives a lot to ponder about how the sincere love for something is the greatest power one can use to achieve results. As Joseph Campbell used to say, "follow your bliss and the universe will start speaking to you."

 

Lastly, I'd add that John Williams is such a multi-faceted artist and figure that this won't be the sole biography we'll get in the years to come. Like we got multiple ones for Mozart,Beethoven, Brahms, Copland, Bernstein etc., we'll get more for him. This will be the only one the composer cooperated with for sure, but his towering presence over the art and craft of music (and film) throughout in between the 20th and 21st century is such that a lot more is there to still explore... What Tim did is broke the ceiling and finally let the light shine in, but I am pretty confident more scholars, students and writers will choose John Williams as the subject of their books.

 

 

Quite the contrary, he was very happy at how it turned out. The documentary was done in full cooperation with Williams and he dictated a lot of what you've seen. From what I've understood, he had a similar approach to the one he took towards the book, i.e. since it was about likely to happen no matter if he wanted or not, he chose to cooperate and give his own blessing. The style and the tone of the film are the outcome of the director's choices, but keep in mind this thing also had a dozen of producers attached to it (like everything in Hollywood these days) and several of them had likely stakeholder's powers.

 

55 minutes ago, Maurizio said:

 

It's just how his brain is wired, I think. He very much prefers to focus on what he's doing at the moment rather than worrying too much about his legacy or what people may think of him in the future. Like every human being, I guess he has his own set of insecurities, but he lived a charmed life, not just professionally, so there's no need for him to secure his image for posterity.

 

Plus, let's not forget he's also a Hollywood creature, therefore he felt more than fine in promulgating the "print the legend"-type of narrative on many circumstances. It's part of his character, too. Despite being a humble man, he likes to entertain people and knows how to deliver a good punchline.

 

Excellent points; 100% valid.

 

16 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

There are the scores he has often told stories about in interviews—Jaws, Star Wars, Raiders, Schindler's—and those repeated stories have reinforced his memories of the music and the films (although these were the ones I didn't really bother to task him about, because there wasn't much mystery left). Then there are scores that he has arranged as concert suites, and those have stayed fresher. But with almost anything else—A.I., Empire of the Sun, Always—the details of the music became extremely vague. Asking about specific themes, let alone individual cues or scenes, proved to be mostly futile. (I particularly wanted to go deep on A.I., but it wasn't meant to be!)

 

 

Yes, the projects themselves often had memories attached. He could tell me a thing or two about most of the directors he worked with, even the one-offs in the ’60s. And sometimes the actors or literary sources (etc.) drew up an anecdote or memory. Just not the score!

 

Thanks for the all the positive feedback, everyone. It means a lot to me.

 

Very interesting.

[Maestro 1,200]

I'm enjoying this robust discussion!

 

I've obviously thought long and hard about why JW was so resistant to a biography/documentary, and many valid explanations have been articulated above by @Maurizio and others. (I do touch on this in the appendix of my book, where I offer some further speculations.) Some will feel that I (and others) dishonored John by pressing ahead with our biographical projects in spite of his reservations, and that's fair. I don't even know where I got the dangerous chutzpah (or "temerity of youth") to plow ahead with this quixotic mission, but it's perfectly open for debate and criticism.

 

The fact is, JW relented to the Spielberg/Bouzereau documentary and to my book at exactly the same time, which was also the year he turned 90. I think every great artist, even the most private, begin to reckon at some stage (some much later than others) with their legacy and how their story will be preserved and told. And John, to his great great credit, began to ponder this seriously in 2022. Setting myself and my book aside, it is a miracle and a gift to the world that he did so—because when he is gone, nearly a century's worth of memories, stories, and profound knowledge would also be gone. Those of us lucky enough to be granted extensive interviews with him were stewards of that treasury, and thankfully it can now be preserved for the future.

 

6 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Maestro, another question that came to mind last night. What was interviewing Spielberg like? Or more specifically, how on earth did you go about that? I imagine for someone writing about JW, you must have had a million questions for him. Was it easy to narrow down what you wanted/had to ask him?

 

This was incredibly difficult—mostly because I was given so little time with Spielberg. I had, of course, wanted to go through their entire filmography, digging into the minutiae of particular moments in almost every film (especially the ones they rarely talk about in interviews). But I had SO little time with him that I had to curate my questions down to what I felt were the most essential and needed for the book. My goal was not to go down the most obvious and well-trodden roads, to avoid the oft-told stories and stock answers—and I was mostly successful in that. He verified a few little-known facts that I think are fascinating, and he gave me some beautiful new quotes about John's contributive power to his films. And I at least got to bring up two of my favorite (less famous) musical moments with him: the "Father and Son" dinner table scene in Jaws, and "Cadillac of the Skies" in Empire of the Sun.

[BB-8 4,959]

So did the "all-dead" anecdote ever feature?

[Maestro 1,200]

Just now, BB-8 said:

So did the "all-dead" anecdote ever feature?

 

It was my number one goal to avoid that!

 

I should also add: Spielberg did confirm that it was JW who implored him to cut the song-and-dance numbers from Hook.

[Mr. Hooper 5,022]

Well, I'm glad you coaxed him into it, Tim, despite his oft-stated misgivings.

 

Sometimes people need a little nudging to do something that lays outside of their comfort zone. But when it's done, they're happy that they did it.

 

And, yeah, I also think that the timing of it was a crucial factor...

 

Had you or someone else approached Williams some twenty years ago, the answer would've probably been a resounding "No, thank you"—and no amount of finessing would've convinced him otherwise.

 

Yes, other tomes on his life and work will surely follow, but this one will always remain in its own class for having benefited from the subject's own and very generous participation.

[mrbellamy 7,278]

33 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

So did the "all-dead" anecdote ever feature?

 

31 minutes ago, Maestro said:

It was my number one goal to avoid that!

 

It's in the book, though, right?

[Maestro 1,200]

51 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

It's in the book, though, right?

 

Sadly, yes. It couldn't be helped!

[Mr. Hooper 5,022]

I mean, you had to...

 

 

[JohnnyD 1,527]

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

I'm enjoying this robust discussion!

 

I've obviously thought long and hard about why JW was so resistant to a biography/documentary, and many valid explanations have been articulated above by @Maurizio and others. (I do touch on this in the appendix of my book, where I offer some further speculations.) Some will feel that I (and others) dishonored John by pressing ahead with our biographical projects in spite of his reservations, and that's fair. I don't even know where I got the dangerous chutzpah (or "temerity of youth") to plow ahead with this quixotic mission, but it's perfectly open for debate and criticism.

 

The fact is, JW relented to the Spielberg/Bouzereau documentary and to my book at exactly the same time, which was also the year he turned 90. I think every great artist, even the most private, begin to reckon at some stage (some much later than others) with their legacy and how their story will be preserved and told. And John, to his great great credit, began to ponder this seriously in 2022. Setting myself and my book aside, it is a miracle and a gift to the world that he did so—because when he is gone, nearly a century's worth of memories, stories, and profound knowledge would also be gone. Those of us lucky enough to be granted extensive interviews with him were stewards of that treasury, and thankfully it can now be preserved for the future.

 

 

This was incredibly difficult—mostly because I was given so little time with Spielberg. I had, of course, wanted to go through their entire filmography, digging into the minutiae of particular moments in almost every film (especially the ones they rarely talk about in interviews). But I had SO little time with him that I had to curate my questions down to what I felt were the most essential and needed for the book. My goal was not to go down the most obvious and well-trodden roads, to avoid the oft-told stories and stock answers—and I was mostly successful in that. He verified a few little-known facts that I think are fascinating, and he gave me some beautiful new quotes about John's contributive power to his films. And I at least got to bring up two of my favorite (less famous) musical moments with him: the "Father and Son" dinner table scene in Jaws, and "Cadillac of the Skies" in Empire of the Sun.

 

Spot on! Love the tease about the little known facts about the Maestro's contribution to film and specific musical moments.

 

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

I should also add: Spielberg did confirm that it was JW who implored him to cut the song-and-dance numbers from Hook.

 

Wow; I did not know that. Honestly, that makes sense. Don't get me wrong, the film is great the songs are also, and I'm glad we have the the songs (including those that did not make the cut) in addition the entire score, but I just can't picture Hook having full-blown song-and-dance numbers.

 

41 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

Sadly, yes. It couldn't be helped!

 

C'mon! That is a classic anecdote. It makes me laugh every time. It's a great story.

[mrbellamy 7,278]

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

This was incredibly difficult—mostly because I was given so little time with Spielberg. I had, of course, wanted to go through their entire filmography, digging into the minutiae of particular moments in almost every film (especially the ones they rarely talk about in interviews). But I had SO little time with him that I had to curate my questions down to what I felt were the most essential and needed for the book. My goal was not to go down the most obvious and well-trodden roads, to avoid the oft-told stories and stock answers—and I was mostly successful in that. He verified a few little-known facts that I think are fascinating, and he gave me some beautiful new quotes about John's contributive power to his films. And I at least got to bring up two of my favorite (less famous) musical moments with him: the "Father and Son" dinner table scene in Jaws, and "Cadillac of the Skies" in Empire of the Sun.

 

It's ok, you can follow up with him when you write that Spielberg/Williams coffee table book 

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

17 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

The saddest thing to me about this latest post is that it still doesn't sound like Williams is 100% at peace with it. The "biography-victim" line is hysterical, though, and I'm happy that he eventually took the attitude that if it's gonna be out there, then at least he better make sure it's credible. 

 

At the risk of being utterly redundant, because much has been explained in better words by people who know much better (good to see you back, Maurizio!): It depends on how you define "at peace with it". It seems to me that Williams simultaneously would rather have no biography on him, yet accepts the interest (I hesitate to write "need" in it) - maybe has even begun to understand it.

 

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. But what shows real greatness of character is to then not only get actively involved, but to even (apparently deliberately) develop an amicable (on a professional level) and supportive relationship with the writer.

 

Williams may not be "happy" that a biography of him now exists, but he seems to have accepted that people want one, and seem (judging by the info we have) happy about how it turned out.

 

4 hours ago, Maestro said:

I should also add: Spielberg did confirm that it was JW who implored him to cut the song-and-dance numbers from Hook.

 

As if I didn't have enough admiration for JW already…

 

3 hours ago, Maestro said:

4 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

It's in the book, though, right?

 

Sadly, yes. It couldn't be helped!

 

[mrbellamy 7,278]

I know we love to hate it, but I would have been FURIOUS if it wasn't in the book. 

[Tom 5,591]

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

I know we love to hate it, but I would have been FURIOUS if it wasn't in the book. 

I don't think that I could muster that much emotion for such an omission, but, in all fairness, I may well be a sociopath.  

[Maestro 1,200]

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

I know we love to hate it, but I would have been FURIOUS if it wasn't in the book. 

 

In the end, I didn't feel that the anecdote itself was worth including—but the fact that they both continued to repeat it (and repeat it and repeat it) warranted mentioning.

[Once 898]

8 hours ago, Maestro said:

And I at least got to bring up two of my favorite (less famous) musical moments with him: the "Father and Son" dinner table scene in Jaws, and "Cadillac of the Skies" in Empire of the Sun.

I've always been fascinated by the scoring of this scene. I first saw Jaws late-ish in life, I was 15 or 16, and weirdly this scene was a musical highlight for me on that first viewing. I've showed the scene to quite a few friends just as an example of how to score a wordless scene.

[JohnnyD 1,527]

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

In the end, I didn't feel that the anecdote itself was worth including—but the fact that they both continued to repeat it (and repeat it and repeat it) warranted mentioning.

 

Well, it is a good anecdote.

[mrbellamy 7,278]

I do think he might have an interesting answer if he elaborated why exactly he loves that story so much lol. Not to over-explain the joke. 

[Tom 5,591]

10 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I do think he might have an interesting answer if he elaborated why exactly he loves that story so much lol. Not to over-explain the joke. 

It was a sweet comment by Spielberg and and a hell of a compliment to Williams.  And, at least the first time out, it is funny.  

[Mr. Hooper 5,022]

3 hours ago, Maestro said:

In the end, I didn't feel that the anecdote itself was worth including—but the fact that they both continued to repeat it (and repeat it and repeat it) warranted mentioning.

Did Williams repeat the anecdote to you personally?

 

You laughed, right?

 

 

 

[BB-8 4,959]

Seth Connery

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

17 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

Well, it is a good anecdote.

 

We need a better anecdote…

[Meredith McKay 7,843]

But they're all said!

[BB-8 4,959]

3 hours ago, Meredith McKay said:

But they're all said!

You need a better story.

But they're all read.

[Mr. Hooper 5,022]

You need a better pencil.

 

But they're all lead.

 

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

13 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

You need a better pencil.

 

But they're all lead.

 

If you knew how long I'd been wrecking my brain to come up with a lead pun before I gave up…

[geom_00 92]

 

We wish he had a better picture.

 

 

It's all this head!

 

 

/Please don't kill me

[Maestro 1,200]

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

You're saying we need a better horse for this discussion?

[scoreman36 153]

They’re all Mr Ed. 

[Tom 5,591]

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

Color Plate #2?  

[Mr. Hooper 5,022]

4 hours ago, Tom said:

Color Plate #2?  

So we have to read the book to find out what it means?

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

At the risk of going back on topic: @Maestro, I don't expect you specifically prompted Williams about fandom and internet resources dedicated to him, but did anything at all come up to indicate whether he is aware of sites like this one? Or whether anyone ever brought specific sites (or even specific topics) to his attention? Based on his reluctance to have a book about him, I imagine he'd be weirded out by it even more than we generally assume.

[Mr. Hooper 5,022]

3 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

At the risk of going back on topic: @Maestro, I don't expect you specifically prompted Williams about fandom and internet resources dedicated to him, but did anything at all come up to indicate whether he is aware of sites like this one?

Oh god, I hope not.

 

 

[Maestro 1,200]

3 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

At the risk of going back on topic: @Maestro, I don't expect you specifically prompted Williams about fandom and internet resources dedicated to him, but did anything at all come up to indicate whether he is aware of sites like this one? Or whether anyone ever brought specific sites (or even specific topics) to his attention? Based on his reluctance to have a book about him, I imagine he'd be weirded out by it even more than we generally assume.

 

As evidenced above by Mr. Hooper, I would be quite worried to have JW know about this site! He and I talked about the massive worldwide love for his music, which he appreciates, but never about specific websites or message boards. I think fandom (or maybe more accurately, fanaticism) freaks him out a little—whether it's autograph hounds shoving his daughter after a concert, or people who would be unduly obsessed with his most obscure ’60s work, etc. But @Falstaft wisely encouraged me to make mention of the fan communities and scholarship that have grown around JW, which I did add to the manuscript.

[Bespin Copilot 9,582]

@Mr. Hooper Cheap shot.

[Mr. Hooper 5,022]

37 minutes ago, Bespin Copilot said:

@Mr. Hooper Cheap shot.

It was the least damning thing I could find. 

[Arnaud2 44]

On 14/5/2025 at 11:50 PM, Maestro said:

 

In the end, I didn't feel that the anecdote itself was worth including—but the fact that they both continued to repeat it (and repeat it and repeat it) warranted mentioning.

While the joke was funny the first time and is a great compliment by a good friend, it’s always made me feel slightly uncomfortable that they’ve kept repeating it. John Williams has always been humble to a fault and implying that he might not only be the best composer of his time but the only one up to the task of writing a score for Schindler’s list is uncharacteristic of him. It’s also blatantly untrue. His work is a masterpiece but we’ll never know what other great musicians would have come up with. And many other great composers were alive then. I don’t need to name them here.

[JohnnyD 1,527]

1 hour ago, Arnaud2 said:

While the joke was funny the first time and is a great compliment by a good friend, it’s always made me feel slightly uncomfortable that they’ve kept repeating it. John Williams has always been humble to a fault and implying that he might not only be the best composer of his time but the only one up to the task of writing a score for Schindler’s list is uncharacteristic of him. It’s also blatantly untrue. His work is a masterpiece but we’ll never know what other great musicians would have come up with. And many other great composers were alive then. I don’t need to name them here.

No composer better than John Williams was alive then (or now, for that matter).

[Tom 5,591]

54 minutes ago, Arnaud2 said:

While the joke was funny the first time and is a great compliment by a good friend, it’s always made me feel slightly uncomfortable that they’ve kept repeating it. John Williams has always been humble to a fault and implying that he might not only be the best composer of his time but the only one up to the task of writing a score for Schindler’s list is uncharacteristic of him. It’s also blatantly untrue. His work is a masterpiece but we’ll never know what other great musicians would have come up with. And many other great composers were alive then. I don’t need to name them here.

Many great composers were alive then and now, but in Spielberg's estimation (and mine, for what it is worth), none were (or are) better than Williams.  

[Mr. Hooper 5,022]

59 minutes ago, Arnaud2 said:

While the joke was funny the first time and is a great compliment by a good friend, it’s always made me feel slightly uncomfortable that they’ve kept repeating it.

For Williams I suppose it just became this tried and true bit that he could trot out and get a laugh from an audience. I doubt there's much more to it.

 

5 hours ago, Maestro said:

I think fandom (or maybe more accurately, fanaticism) freaks him out a little

So, that time at Tanglewood when he pointed at my "Music by John Williams" shirt with a big smile, he was actually thinking "I hope security's not too far"?