Behind the Moon - a Substack column about John Williams: A Composer's Life

[JohnnyD 1,864]

On 03/06/2025 at 12:56 PM, Maestro said:

 

It necessarily had to be a summary, just highlighting the most noteworthy titles and the ones he can tell stories about, plus any where there are foreshadowing connections to directors (or actors) he would work with later. There were many reasons why I couldn't write granularly about his TV credits: limited access to the shows themselves (let alone their scores), plus knowing that this period/work would be of less interest to most readers, so I had to keep the narrative flowing. There was always the tension of wanting to be the end-all encyclopedia of Williamsology... while also trying to tell a compelling tale that will appeal to a broad audience.

 

That's cool.

 

On 03/06/2025 at 1:31 PM, Thor said:

I did a tally on DADDY-O recently, just as an example, and realized there was no other living KEY film crew left. Only minimal, secondary cast members and such, and barely even that. It's a testament to Williams' longevity.

Amen!

[enderdrag64 1,813]

On 21/05/2025 at 8:06 AM, Maestro said:

The Substack is free to everyone. Even "subscribing" doesn't mean paying, unless you choose one of the paid options (which is purely optional).

 

I am planning to introduce some fun perks for paying subscribers soon, so hopefully there will be some more incentive for those who want to support this endeavor. But my goal was always to make the main posts free to all.

It looks like all the posts older than 4 weeks are now paywalled, not sure if that was done intentionally 

[Maestro 1,604]

3 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

It looks like all the posts older than 4 weeks are now paywalled, not sure if that was done intentionally 

 

Thanks for letting me know! I went in and un-paywalled the archive. I may wind up paywalling older posts down the line (still trying to suss out the business of all this), but I want everyone who's interested to be able to read the whole thing for now.

 

[Miguel Andrade 1,729]

14 hours ago, Thor said:

Nice entry, although more of a tease this time! Looking forward to getting into the deep end of it all in the book itself.

 

 

I always wondered who put it out on YouTube. I remember some 10-15 years ago, it was only myself and another person who searched high and low for the film. He (being more conveniently located in the US) managed to find it via a connection, and sent it to me on a DVD-R, which I then transferred to my computer. I then shared the video with one or two fellow Williams buffs at some point, and some time later it was put on YouTube (albeit cropped). I was sorta pissed about that for a while, but it's my own fault. I asked for it by sharing. Plus, over the years I've become less protective of obscure information. I'm glad it's out there now. It should be, as an important piece of history.

 

I'm very interested in how deep you delve into the TV days too, Tim. As you know, that's another area that I've obsessed over in my podcast series. Not going to edit the series (once again!) if you've unearthed information that contradicts my own, but maybe it answers a few open questions. "John Williams' TV Jungle".

 

Keep the teasin' goin'!

If memory serves, your source and the one on YouTube are different. 

[mrbellamy 8,262]

Johnny Williams, Session Player

 

Damn, JW on To Kill a Mockingbird was fake news

[Once 1,146]

This was a very interesting and informative post!!

[geom_00 151]

2 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

Johnny Williams, Session Player

 

Damn, JW on To Kill a Mockingbird was fake news

 

@Maestro

 

You mentioned that:  "To top it all off, Local 47 does not let outside researchers inside these vaults anymore; many years ago, when their doors were wide open, they had too many opportunists and bandits sneak off with cool mementos that wound up on eBay or just in people’s personal collections."

 

Do you think there is any chance that happened with Breakfast At Tiffany's, To Kill a Mockingbird, or The Pink Panther?  Especially the last one considering the documented friendship between Williams and Mancini.

[mrbellamy 8,262]

There's also that little window of Williams noticing some were omitted but didn't say which. 

[Erik Woods 841]

3 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

Johnny Williams, Session Player

 

Damn, JW on To Kill a Mockingbird was fake news

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 16,456]

Does he even know how to play the piano?

[Maestro 1,604]

55 minutes ago, geom_00 said:

 

@Maestro

 

You mentioned that:  "To top it all off, Local 47 does not let outside researchers inside these vaults anymore; many years ago, when their doors were wide open, they had too many opportunists and bandits sneak off with cool mementos that wound up on eBay or just in people’s personal collections."

 

Do you think there is any chance that happened with Breakfast At Tiffany's, To Kill a Mockingbird, or The Pink Panther?  Especially the last one considering the documented friendship between Williams and Mancini.

 

It is possible. But the AFM did have the session reports for all three of those films, and other pianists were credited. So it would only be if there was, I guess, a single date he played and that report was filched. But it's most likely that he did not play on any of them. He of course played on many sessions for Mancini, primarily Peter Gunn and Mr. Lucky, but a few features as well.

[Loert 3,129]

The piano part of Bernstein's "Cool" would drive anybody nuts

[KittBash 362]

And with one little article so many updates to the Chronology are now to come!!!!
Wow @Maestro with just these articles you are setting the stage for quite the book! 

[Jurassic Shark 16,456]

What about compiling these articles into a book? 🤔

[Maestro 1,604]

I'm trying to navigate a line between teasing and previewing the book, and also sharing details that didn't make it into the book, without giving away too much. Hopefully the balance is working!

[Once 1,146]

So far the blog seemingly works like the perfect companion piece, in my opinion!

[Jurassic Shark 16,456]

6 hours ago, Maestro said:

I'm trying to navigate a line between teasing and previewing the book, and also sharing details that didn't make it into the book, without giving away too much. Hopefully the balance is working!

 

Yeah, I meant it's too bad if the details not included in the book will only be available in a substack. Seems like there could be a market for a volume 2 with minutiae and details. 

[Amer 2,765]

@Maestro Do we have the name of the piano player who did the TKAMB?

 

 

[Thor 9,363]

Another great entry. Of course, I'm bummed to learn once and for all that Williams didn't play on some of those iconic titles, but I've had my doubts for years (sources have been conflicting). Especially bummer with TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD, which is a very important film and score in my life, and features prominent, lovely piano solos. As Amer says, I'm curious about WHO it actually is now?

 

On the flipside, it's nice to learn about some NEW film titles, titles where I wasn't aware of Williams' piano playing.

 

I think his earliest, uncredited album session gig in the industry remains the Harry Belafonte album CALYPSO, recorded August 18, October 20, November 9, 1955 - while Williams lived in NY, attending Juilliard. Or what was the circumstances of that again, Miguel?

[Amer 2,765]

Also intereting tit bit being Williams first association with Hitchcock on THE BIRDS thanks to his mentor and friend Bernard Herrmann who was overseeing the sound aspect of the film

[Sunshine Reger 3,714]

7 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Yeah, I meant it's too bad if the details not included in the book will only be available in a substack. Seems like there could be a market for a volume 2 with minutiae and details. 

John Williams 2: Nerds in Paradise

[Bespin Copilot 10,853]

I'm happy to see that I did indeed remove "To Kill a Mockingbird" from my disco; I didn't remember doing so. Normally, my disco is up to date, but feel free to tell @Junion to make changes if needed. Regarding the film sessions, I think some people had determined that, although John Williams, simply by being present in the studios, may have played a few pieces during rehearsals, he ultimately wasn’t required as the selected pianist, either for the film or the album... That’s why many supposed collaborations were eventually removed from my website. There you go.

 

https://jwfan.com/discography/music/disco/albums.htm

 

[JohnnyD 1,864]

16 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

It is possible. But the AFM did have the session reports for all three of those films, and other pianists were credited. So it would only be if there was, I guess, a single date he played and that report was filched. But it's most likely that he did not play on any of them. He of course played on many sessions for Mancini, primarily Peter Gunn and Mr. Lucky, but a few features as well.

 

Very interesting. However, I still believe that he did play in Elmer Bernstein's score for To Kill a Mockingbird, at least at one point. I mean, it was mentioned in the documentary, Music By John Williams, and, further back, was mentioned in Classic FM's "John Williams At 80" special program. In 2012 on the Classic FM interview, Tommy Pearson asked JW point blank whether he played on that score said "that's correct." (Interview is on the last disc of the 2015 Star Wars Boxed Set; relevant bit is in Part I, 7:52...

 

Maybe, in the case of To Kill a Mockingbird, the report was filched. It is rare of paperwork to not be 100% accurate, but it does happen.

 

14 hours ago, Maestro said:

I'm trying to navigate a line between teasing and previewing the book, and also sharing details that didn't make it into the book, without giving away too much. Hopefully the balance is working!

It is working and then some! What I found most surprising was the piano playing in Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds. My jaw dropped when I read that and saw the clip from the film.

[Maurizio 6,914]

7 hours ago, Amer said:

@Maestro Do we have the name of the piano player who did the TKAMB?

 

I haven't seen the AFM records, but it's safe to assume it could've been either Jimmy Rowles or Ray Turner, two of the most renowned first-call studio pianists working in Hollywood back then.

 

56 minutes ago, Bespin Copilot said:

Regarding the film sessions, I think some people had determined that, although John Williams, simply by being present in the studios, may have played a few pieces during rehearsals, he ultimately wasn’t required as the selected pianist, either for the film or the album... 

 

The AFM records are usually very accurate to determine who really played on what, as they are also used to determine residuals and re-use fees percentages for each member. That being said, having talked to a number of LA studio musicians it seems that their memory can be faulty in terms of remembering accurately details and whereabouts. Some of them swear to have played for stuff they are not credited in, but those people played on literally thousands of sessions, night and day, for decades, so it's quite normal to mix up recollections. JW didn't play that long as a studio musician, but he was insanely active nonetheless. He was often "just around," as flautist Sheridon Stokes told me when I asked him if Williams ever played in the orchestra at Fox when Sheridon was there too. He told me that the studio pianist for Alfred Newman was Urban Thielmann and he didn't remember John ever playing in the band, but he was always around mingling with people and musicians.

[Jesse 323]

I did not expect, when I woke up today, to hear a John Williams rendition of Clair de Lune. What a treat.
I also always love seeing Williams' handwritten music, so that manuscript of his from The Apartment was great to see. That’s now the earliest handwritten music by Williams I’ve laid my eyes on; previously, it was his sketches from Bachelor Flat.
I love seeing this sort of thing.

The article, and the whole blog for that matter, is super interesting and just great. Thank you very much!

[BB-8 6,284]

27 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I did not expect, when I woke up today, to hear a John Williams rendition of Clair de Lune. What a treat.
I also always love seeing Williams' handwritten music, so that manuscript of his from The Apartment was great to see. That’s now the earliest handwritten music by Williams I’ve laid my eyes on; previously, it was his sketches from Bachelor Flat.
I love seeing this sort of thing.

The article, and the whole blog for that matter, is super interesting and just great. Thank you very much!

Arabesque No. 1 !

 

 

[Jesse 323]

1 hour ago, BB-8 said:

Arabesque No. 1 !

 

 

Oh, your right. Of course. I even played Claire de lune once and still confused them.

[Maestro 1,604]

To Kill a (Beloved) Myth!

 

I realize I've kicked up a minor hornet's nest with my Mockingbird claim. It's all the more confounding when we hear John himself state that he played on it (in more than one interview). And then the possibility of AFM reports having gone missing makes the trail seem even colder.

 

But here is the strongest proof I have: the AFM sent me the TV exhibition residuals list, of all the musicians who played on the Mockingbird score... and John's name is not on it. Pianists Caesar Giovannini and Raymond Turner are.

 

I think that has to be the "smoking gun," as it were. And when I asked John about this a few months ago, after the Disney+ doc perpetuated the myth, he basically shrugged and said he must not have played on it.

[BB-8 6,284]

17 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

What about compiling these articles into a book? 🤔

I was actually thinking that this was the whole idea behind "Behind the Moon": you're subscribing to crowd-fund a fan-based book.

 

Just imagine, all these "making of" chapters interspersed with selected essays from "The Legacy of John Williams" content in one illustrated book (once the biography has sold out, of course).

[mrbellamy 8,262]

I'll trust the research and receipts and believe it wasn't him after all. Like Maurizio said, maybe he was at the sessions and forgot he wasn't there as a player, or he was just conflating it with something else in his memory. 

 

It's not such a big deal if TKAM wasn't him, because the narrative of him as a session musician still includes a lot of beloved films and impressive piano playing. But now that it's preserved in the documentary (and I think it was also included in his AFI ceremony) it's probably gonna stick to him as little-known trivia until the debunking in the biography washes over it with time. It's his own fault for misremembering! It'll just be a thing we'll have to pull a "Welllll ACTUALLY" on people, or just let it go. At least it's flattering if it's falsehood. There are always these kinds of claims about important figures (is the "John Williams has never seen a Star Wars movie" misquote still circulating?)

[Miguel Andrade 1,729]

7 hours ago, Bespin Copilot said:

I'm happy to see that I did indeed remove "To Kill a Mockingbird" from my disco; I didn't remember doing so. Normally, my disco is up to date, but feel free to tell @Junion to make changes if needed. Regarding the film sessions, I think some people had determined that, although John Williams, simply by being present in the studios, may have played a few pieces during rehearsals, he ultimately wasn’t required as the selected pianist, either for the film or the album... That’s why many supposed collaborations were eventually removed from my website. There you go.

 

https://jwfan.com/discography/music/disco/albums.htm

 

You likely don't have To Kill a Mockingbird on the discography because it's been a known fact for a few years now that he didn't play on the album recording. 

8 hours ago, Thor said:

 

I think his earliest, uncredited album session gig in the industry remains the Harry Belafonte album CALYPSO, recorded August 18, October 20, November 9, 1955 - while Williams lived in NY, attending Juilliard. Or what was the circumstances of that again, Miguel?

 

Yes, I think that is correct. Can't remember right now if it was recorded in New York though.

[JohnnyD 1,864]

5 hours ago, Maestro said:

To Kill a (Beloved) Myth!

 

I realize I've kicked up a minor hornet's nest with my Mockingbird claim. It's all the more confounding when we hear John himself state that he played on it (in more than one interview). And then the possibility of AFM reports having gone missing makes the trail seem even colder.

 

But here is the strongest proof I have: the AFM sent me the TV exhibition residuals list, of all the musicians who played on the Mockingbird score... and John's name is not on it. Pianists Caesar Giovannini and Raymond Turner are.

 

I think that has to be the "smoking gun," as it were. And when I asked John about this a few months ago, after the Disney+ doc perpetuated the myth, he basically shrugged and said he must not have played on it.

 

 

 

All joking aside, that is very interesting. Thanks for setting the record straight.

[Thor 9,363]

2 hours ago, Miguel Andrade said:

Yes, I think that is correct. Can't remember right now if it was recorded in New York though.

It was!

[pete 1,335]

I find it entirely plausable Williams just misremembered. 

 

It would have only been a day or two's work, right? 65 years ago.

I can't remember what I had for breakfast, and it's only 11 AM.

[ConorPower 191]

Jaws at 50: the Big Bang of John Williams's career

 

A really wonderful overview of that pivotal turning point in JW's career and the reciprocal effect JW and Spielberg had on each other! Delighted also to read that the first 160 pages of the book are all pre-Jaws. Not something I think we should take for granted, and demonstrative, I'm sure, of just how much @Maestro has uncovered.

 

Two non-Jaws follow-ups for @Maestro on Williams's connections to others:

(1) Any insights into Williams's relationship with David Shire? (Great picture!) I'm always interested to hear Williams' relationship to those composers who we've discussed less than, say, Goldsmith or Herrmann. 

(2) Does Sondheim cite Jaws as an influence on Sweeney Todd!? I'd always thought of Todd as being quite Herrmann-like 

[Jurassic Shark 16,456]

11 minutes ago, ConorPower said:

Not something I think we should take for granted, and demonstrative, I'm sure, of just how much @Maestro has uncovered.

 

I'm hoping for an origin and evolution of the they're all dead joke.

 

11 minutes ago, ConorPower said:

Any insights into Williams's relationship with David Shire?

 

And what about Dave Grusin? He scored Spielberg-produced pictures. Was he recommended by JW?

 

Another question I've been thinking about: why didn't JW score any of the pictures SS produced but didn't direct?

[Maestro 1,604]

19 minutes ago, ConorPower said:

(1) Any insights into Williams's relationship with David Shire? (Great picture!) I'm always interested to hear Williams' relationship to those composers who we've discussed less than, say, Goldsmith or Herrmann. 

(2) Does Sondheim cite Jaws as an influence on Sweeney Todd!? I'd always thought of Todd as being quite Herrmann-like 

 

I never asked JW about Shire, but I did ask Shire about JW (he's a massive fan, and has been since the 1960s). The people John was/is good friends with are pretty well known; he didn't seem to have a close relationship to the ones outside of, say, Alex North, Mancini, Previn, and as you say, Herrmann and Goldsmith. (Maybe a handful of others.) The Revue days were special, with all of those young and old composers working in adjacent "cells," but John didn't really elaborate on his relationship with Quincy Jones or Dave Grusin with me. He did talk about his warm admiration for some of the elders, like Cyril Mockridge.

 

Sweeney Todd is very much inspired by Herrmann, but there's something very cool Sondheim said about the impact of Jaws (which I'm saving for the book!).

16 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

And what about Dave Grusin? He scored Spielberg-produced pictures. Was he recommended by JW?

 

That I'm not sure about.

[bollemanneke 4,332]

John Williams largely made Steven Spielberg. Hmm, isn't that a bit of a radical statement?

[geom_00 151]

@Maestro

 

My Wife and I have tickets for that Bowl concert!  I was excited before, as who doesn't love hearing a classic score with an world class orchestra?  But I can't wait to hear your talk!

 

Do you know when (in relation to the beginning of the show itself) you will be speaking?  I guess what I am asking is:  Is your talk right before the show starts, or would it be wise to get there earlier?

 

Thank you, and GREAT post as always!  

 

 

[BB-8 6,284]

5 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

John Williams largely made Steven Spielberg. Hmm, isn't that a bit of a radical statement?

At least it seems a little one-sided.

 

Always two there are...

 

[Maestro 1,604]

13 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

John Williams largely made Steven Spielberg. Hmm, isn't that a bit of a radical statement?

 

Radical, absolutely! Although I imagine Spielberg might well agree.

 

I tried to couch that statement with my caveat "to a large degree," but also it was made in the context of arguing that John Williams would likely not have become JOHN WILLIAMS if it wasn't for Spielberg. So in essence they "made" each other... or at least made each other's stratospheric careers.

 

9 minutes ago, geom_00 said:

Do you know when (in relation to the beginning of the show itself) you will be speaking?  I guess what I am asking is:  Is your talk right before the show starts, or would it be wise to get there earlier?

 

Details are still being sorted out, but the talk should start around 6:30. I'll share more details once they're in stone!

[bollemanneke 4,332]

Oh I agree 100% that Spielberg made JW, but I don't imagine Spielberg's career would have been different if he had made all the movies he has with a different composer. (For 'normal people', I mean.)

[BB-8 6,284]

5 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Oh I agree 100% that Spielberg made JW, but I don't imagine Spielberg's career would have been different if he had made all the movies he has with a different composer. (For 'normal people', I mean.)

Well, Spielberg's Jaws wouldn't have become the first ever block-buster without JW. So I think this was the game changer, and if that hadn't had happened Spielberg's career would have taken a completely different pathway.

[Maestro 1,604]

5 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Oh I agree 100% that Spielberg made JW, but I don't imagine Spielberg's career would have been different if he had made all the movies he has with a different composer. (For 'normal people', I mean.)

 

It's a fascinating Sliding Doors question, but I feel you're vastly undervaluing JW's importance to the Spielberg magic...

 

[geom_00 151]

4 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

It's a fascinating Sliding Doors question, but I feel you're vastly undervaluing JW's importance to the Spielberg magic...

 

Spielberg himself said that Williams' score saved his movie.  They had SO many mechanical issues with Bruce (the shark was literally named after a lawyer) that without the famous DA DUN, this movie might not have been made.

[ConorPower 191]

7 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

Well, Spielberg's Jaws wouldn't have become the first ever block-buster without JW. So I think this was the game changer, and if that hadn't had happened Spielberg's career would have taken a completely different pathway.

Right! And Spielberg has credited Williams with c. 50% of Jaws (ground-breaking) success. The shark is the music, and if the music isn't Williams's then the film may not have been so successful and Spielberg might not have gotten his "blank checks" to make Close Encounters and everything that followed. 1941 might have been a nail in the coffin for any other director who hadn't already had Spielberg's success?

[Once 1,146]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Another question I've been thinking about: why didn't JW score any of the pictures SS produced but didn't direct?

I've often wondered this myself. Besides Memoirs of a Geisha, of course.

 

Another great post, @Maestro. I could read a deep-dive think piece on any Williams score/collaboration, but of course Jaws is especially worthy.

[BB-8 6,284]

If Jaws had flopped with JW, Spielberg may have left the large-scale romantic orchestral score pathway altogether and wouldn't have recommend this composer to Lucas, and so on.

 

JW might have returned to his jazz roots and found happiness as a pianist.

[Tom 6,923]

59 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

John Williams largely made Steven Spielberg. Hmm, isn't that a bit of a radical statement?

Well, there was a cut scene in The Fabelmans that confirmed this.  

[Jurassic Shark 16,456]

1 hour ago, BB-8 said:

If Jaws had flopped with JW, Spielberg may have left the large-scale romantic orchestral score pathway altogether and wouldn't have recommend this composer to Lucas, and so on.

 

JW might have returned to his jazz roots and found happiness as a pianist.

 

He surely would have done Not With My Wife You Don't! 2: The Second Wife.

 

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

I never asked JW about Shire, but I did ask Shire about JW (he's a massive fan, and has been since the 1960s). The people John was/is good friends with are pretty well known; he didn't seem to have a close relationship to the ones outside of, say, Alex North, Mancini, Previn, and as you say, Herrmann and Goldsmith. (Maybe a handful of others.) The Revue days were special, with all of those young and old composers working in adjacent "cells," but John didn't really elaborate on his relationship with Quincy Jones or Dave Grusin with me. He did talk about his warm admiration for some of the elders, like Cyril Mockridge.

 

Did he say anything about... Hans Zimmer?