Behind the Moon - a Substack column about John Williams: A Composer's Life

[Marian Schedenig 11,860]

Excellent new post, with some food for thought about the circumstances around Jaws that we've been so familiar with for so long that we tend to take them for granted.

 

@Maestro regarding last week's post (which I've also only just read - June is a busy month): One score that seemed suspiciously absent in your list of scores recorded with and without JW was The Magnificent Seven. Is it still the consensus that he played on that?

 

And on a semi-related note: I only recently got The Music from Peter Gunn and was surprised that while Williams is clearly credited as the pianist on many tracks, he's *not* credited for the title theme - but neither is someone else, and yet the track clearly has a piano in it. What gives? Anonymous pianist, or just a mistake in the credits?

[That_Bloke 192]

On 11/06/2025 at 10:05 PM, Bespin Copilot said:

I'm happy to see that I did indeed remove "To Kill a Mockingbird" from my disco;

https://jwfan.com/discography/music/disco/albums.htm

 

 

They play To Kill A Mockingbird at your disco? I bet that gets the punters filling the dance floor. Must be right up there with the Bus Stop and YMCA. 

 

Such a shame you had it removed. Killjoy. 

[Chris Malone 54]

Loving reading Tim’s blog! Makes the upcoming book feel all the more special, exciting, and something that will be worth waiting for. 
 

Regarding The Magnificent Seven, I made a long and boring YouTube video about the score for the Quartet box set.
 

Rather than bore you to tears with that, the answer to the pianist question is Raymond Turner. 
 

Chris

[Amer 2,785]

22 minutes ago, Chris Malone said:

Loving reading Tim’s blog! Makes the upcoming book feel all the more special, exciting, and something that will be worth waiting for. 
 

Regarding The Magnificent Seven, I made a long and boring YouTube video about the score for the Quartet box set.
 

Rather than bore you to tears with that, the answer to the pianist question is Raymond Turner. 
 

Chris

Thanks Chris! 

[Jay 46,770]

Here is the video that @Chris Malone mentioned:

 

 

[BB-8 6,421]

Some nice hidden gems this week...

My JW bibliography

A small consolation for a bye week.

 

My JW bibliography - by Tim Greiving - Behind the Moon

 

[Jurassic Shark 16,563]

Thomas Newman orchestrated a cue in Return of the Jedi

 

Interesting! Actually orchestrated, or just copied out JW's elaborate sketches?

[Jesse 323]

27 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Thomas Newman orchestrated a cue in Return of the Jedi

 

Interesting! Actually orchestrated, or just copied out JW's elaborate sketches?

Thomas Newman also told about this in an Interview he did with Rick Beato. It was Vaders Death if im not mistaken.

As always with Williams "orchestrated" refers to "orchestrating" it from Williams short score. Im pretty sure Newman even said in the Interview something along the lines of it being more of a copying job, but still a great learning experience.

 

Ah i found it

 

[enderdrag64 1,818]

Newman orchestrated multiple ROTJ cues:

Vader Contacts Luke

After the Bike Chase

The Emperor Confronts Luke

Vader's Death
 

[mrbellamy 8,269]

On the Trail of: John's Pre-Spielberg Years

 

That "Saturday Adoption" story is a fun ride 

[Marian Schedenig 11,860]

Exciting as always. One one point I have to disagree though: While I understand, and partly share, the sentiment about Williams's early film works, there's still gold among them, e.g.:

 

[Maestro 1,611]

Thanks Marian! I meant the films themselves; I LOVE so many of the pre-Spielberg scores.

[Jesse 323]

@Maestro  "Mia Farrow, who was married to André Previn around the time John lived in London, and who has remained his friend since." Did you mean that Mia Farrow remained friends with Previn or with Williams?

"Defended the seriousness of one of his early concert works,..." Are you willing to share which concert work he was talking about, and from whom he defended it? Or is that something you're saving for later?

 

[Parker Luciani 10,300]

6 minutes ago, Jesse said:

@Maestro 

"Defended the seriousness of one of his early concert works,..." Are you willing to share which concert work he was talking about, and from whom he defended it? Or is that something you're saving for later?

 

Perhaps Herrman?  

[mrbellamy 8,269]

Of the pre-Sugarland ones I've seen, the Altmans were definitely worth a watch imo. I'm not the biggest fan of the Irwin Allen movies tbh but they do have a notable place in film history. Fiddler's great though not strictly a John Williams movie. 

[Maestro 1,611]

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

@Maestro  "Mia Farrow, who was married to André Previn around the time John lived in London, and who has remained his friend since." Did you mean that Mia Farrow remained friends with Previn or with Williams?

"Defended the seriousness of one of his early concert works,..." Are you willing to share which concert work he was talking about, and from whom he defended it? Or is that something you're saving for later?

 

 

Farrow has remained friends with John Williams. It's very sweet—she still calls him "Johnny."

 

The letter was specifically talking about his Sinfonietta for winds.

 

 

[artguy360 2,282]

@Maestro the amount of research you've done is staggering. And, if your blog is any indication, you've written a very engaging book, literally perfect for this forum. I can't wait!

[BB-8 6,421]

On the Trail of: The Boston Pops Era

Come with me to Boston, where John Williams' life took a pivotal and public turn in 1980, leading to a chapter in his career that he feels could be a book unto itself.

On the Trail of: The Boston Pops Era - by Tim Greiving

 

[BB-8 6,421]

I am not the expert on John Williams

Despite any intimations or assumptions to the contrary, I am not the authority on the Maestro.

I am not the expert on John Williams - by Tim Greiving

[Jurassic Shark 16,563]

 

Nice drawing. 

[GerateWohl 6,539]

28 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

I am not the expert on John Williams

Despite any intimations or assumptions to the contrary, I am not the authority on the Maestro.

How does it feel to have that out now BB?

[mrbellamy 8,269]

The Fabelmans, Scored

 

Interesting to get more thoughts on this perspective with examples. I can't talk as someone who made a whole playlist trying to put John Williams back into Harry Potter 5-8. I know the feeling of that particular JWFan demon 

 

One thing I'll reiterate about Spielberg possibly refraining from sentimentality is that he claimed he did wonder to JW if they should be putting music earlier, and he says Williams was the one whose instinct was that the film was doing something different: 

 

 

It was kind of surprising to me that this is such a sticking point in this section of the biography, to the point that it really feels like a big gauntlet thrown at the end there, that they were not being true to themselves. In one sense I appreciate it as a thesis statement, in celebration of the fullness of the scoring approach that'll undoubtedly be their ultimate legacy. 

 

But I also think it's an ungenerous view to what the movie is really doing in context. You're right that it's not exactly a documentary, but it is basically a memoir. To say "the movie is a shaggy, scattershot collection of vignettes that don’t really hang together as a cinematic story" is not actually inaccurate, but I would just push back against the implication that that's inherently less worthwhile. 

 

Watching the rescored clips, I have a better idea what you expected or what you feel you're not hearing. Obviously you're not looking for "Journey to the Island" here but you're missing some softer undercurrent. Like you see the river moving but you don't hear the water, or you see the trees blowing but you don't hear the wind. I get that and would grant that the movie is long, there are a couple bits like Sammy on the bikes with his friends that you temped with Catch Me If You Can that I see how they could have given the movie a little more propulsion. 

 

But I still feel that this argument is downplaying the fact that John Williams IS there! But whereas so much of the beauty and memorability of their artistic partnership is in how they scream to the heavens and monologue together, here they're often whispering and in couplets. Brief cues, brief scenes. Scattershot, maybe, but I would say "snapshot."

 

One thing watching your rescored scenes that I was reminded of in watching the movie was how much I loved those unscored early scenes of Sammy watching Greatest Show on Earth, the car ride home, trying to recreate the trainwreck. Watching all of that in silence really conveyed to me just how dumbstruck this kid is by what he just saw. Also every time somebody was watching an old film reel in silence and in the dark, I found powerful and I think maybe what Williams could have been responding to in the film, that the film could evoke that feeling without music, along with a pain that permeates all this nostalgia. It brings me into the head of an artist I love trying to recall memories. Could be argued the film should be shot and/or edited more impressionistically in that case and not like a Spielberg movie, but I don't know about that. I wonder if Williams saw that this wasn't really about conjuring up a fictional adventure or lifting up a compelling chapter of history in a cinematic way. It's the guy sitting next to him painting a self-portrait and he liked watching him speak for himself. Maybe he was too close to it! 

 

One of the knocks I read against this movie is that it's like watching another family's home movies and if the kid didn't grow up to be Steven Spielberg, it wouldn't be that interesting. And my only response to that is "Well he does, so it is"  I also just think it works well as a funny and bittersweet coming-of-age movie. But I think maybe I have similar feelings about how this sits in the Spielberg/Williams partnership. If all their collaborations were like this, they wouldn't have the legacy they do, but it feels like a different kind of statement because of the contrast. I was surprised, for sure, but not disappointed or frustrated. 

 

I would also just emphasize that I don't think of this as an unmusical film and it has so much great music in it, Williams or otherwise, diegetic and non-diegetic. I had some thoughts here about what I think Williams is doing in regards to Mitzi. The effect of the Fabelmans theme coming in only for the first time at the end is like a warm blanket. All those piano pieces work beautifully, the Bach Adagio chief among them. And I love that James Darren song that scores the senior class beach party. "Goodbye cruel world, I'm off to join the circus." THAT'S the movie. In that sense I don't think Spielberg is contradicting himself at all in his quote about movies lying stiff without music, John Williams is just sharing that space with all these musical memories. 

 

Fabelmans is good, the filmmaking's good, the score and soundtrack are good, John Williams helped Spielberg tell the tale like he always does and this was a big one for him to be there for, I'm glad he was.  

[Maestro 1,611]

Thanks for taking the time to articulate such a thoughtful response, @mrbellamy.

 

This is all purely subjective, of course, and I like hearing everyone's reasons for liking what this film is doing. But I do insistently rest my subjective opinion on the mountain of their collaborative "project" leading up The Fabelmans. And I'm not just some stubborn purist; I love lots of minimally scored movies, ambient scores, needledrop scores, etc. I just feel there's a fundamental disconnect between the feeling that Spielberg is going for in this movie (a feeling he has gone for ever since Sugarland) and the lack of feelings I have for most of it. I personally believe it was motivated by fear on his part, but I also acknowledge that's pure speculation.

 

If I was a good disciple, I would accept JW's work and instincts here and praise them as wisdom—but damn it, I want to be moved!

 

(Also, thank you for sharing that PTA interview clip. If I'd heard it before, I've forgotten. It doesn't change my ultimate feelings about this, but I guess I should blame JW more!)

[Sunshine Reger 3,716]

If Kathleen Kennedy's explanation is correct, then Spielberg and Williams choosing to spot the former's biographical picture in a different scoring style than the one he had loved since his childhood films and throughout the glorious multidecade, Renaissance-like collaboration with Williams, then what sort of conclusion should be drawn from that? That the detractors of that style had been right all along, that they won in the end, even on Spielberg's own turf, or that old artists, no matter how great they used to be, eventually turn towards the minimalistic or esoterical, distant from life's vitality?

[Maestro 1,611]

I definitely don't think they were right all along, and I don't think anyone won. I just think Spielberg let them get too deep into his head—and that this picture was just far too personal and naked for him to stick to his guns.

[mrbellamy 8,269]

6 minutes ago, Maestro said:

I just feel there's a fundamental disconnect between the feeling that Spielberg is going for in this movie (a feeling he has gone for ever since Sugarland) and the lack of feelings I have for most of it. 

 

Yeah I think where we have to agree to disagree is that I don't think he's quite going for the same thing, tonally or emotionally, even though his way of visualizing scenes is consistent. I don't think you're wrong that there's a slight feeling of remove that's different but I think it's intentional, albeit messy because he is trying to somewhat dispassionately relay his life story and his relationship with his late parents. It's an unusual movie! But I really was drawn towards so much of what he had to say. This movie gets into some very thorny left brain vs right brain stuff. 

 

6 minutes ago, Maestro said:

If I was a good disciple, I would accept JW's work and instincts here and praise them as wisdom—but damn it, I want to be moved!

 

And I was! I wouldn't have written all that otherwise. I haven't even watched the movie since then but remember so much of it vividly. Whereas I could probably pick on the poor ol BFG for not really achieving what I could tell they were going for...that's a movie I thought held back on the Spielberg/Williams magic in kind of odd ways, even though it is there in fits and starts. 

[Sunshine Reger 3,716]

Just now, Maestro said:

I definitely don't think they were right all along, and I don't think anyone won. I just think Spielberg let them get too deep into his head—and that this picture was just far too personal and naked for him to stick to his guns.

That's... unusual. The most personal projects are usually the last place where an artist would go out of his way to placate his critics. 

[mrbellamy 8,269]

That's why I don't really buy it. If anything I could flip the argument that it would have been scarier for Spielberg not to use Williams's music as a guide and cohesive glue so much. Like he says in that clip I posted, he wanted to see if he could let these scenes from his life play more in real time and NOT bore the viewer. Clearly some mixed results! 

 

This is also something he's been trending toward anyway (like the opening of Bridge of Spies) and I haven't thought it was so much a reaction to his critics but just doing something in a vein he doesn't do often, because he's spent his whole career so rightly believing in utilizing the power of film music. I think it's probably more a challenge to himself, like can he create a compelling spy sequence using only the sounds of NYC as the soundtrack. I think he said even before Williams dropped out, he knew that's how he wanted to construct that sequence. The plane crash is unscored too if I remember right. I don't think it means he's thrown in the towel or betrayed his filmmaking instincts. I mean, Duel, for crying out loud. But I don't deny his filmmaking hits different with a lot of music! That's what made it fun to see him play around with West Side Story.

 

Also not comparing The Fabelmans to Lawrence of Arabia, but I just saw that again in 70MM over the weekend and for how iconic that score is, I really forgot how muted and silent so much of those 4 hours is. And it's one of Spielberg's favorites. You don't always need a lot to become an institution of film scoring! 

[GerateWohl 6,539]

2 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

One thing I'll reiterate about Spielberg possibly refraining from sentimentality is that he claimed he did wonder to JW if they should be putting music earlier, and he says Williams was the one whose instinct was that the film was doing something different: 

 

So, probably Williams was just lazy and had no desire to write music for this? "No no. You don't need music there. Just let the movie breeze. It's fine."

[Jurassic Shark 16,563]

2 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

So, probably Williams was just lazy and had no desire to write music for this? "No no. You don't need music there. Just let the movie breeze. It's fine."

 

It's how I score all the silents I've scored. It also helps that the director invariably is dead and doesn't answer back.

[Marian Schedenig 11,860]

16 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

So, probably Williams was just lazy and had no desire to write music for this? "No no. You don't need music there. Just let the movie breeze. It's fine."

 

"You need a better composer than me to score your film." - "I know, but they're all too lazy."

[Maurizio 6,915]

20 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

I would also just emphasize that I don't think of this as an unmusical film and it has so much great music in it, Williams or otherwise, diegetic and non-diegetic. I had some thoughts here about what I think Williams is doing in regards to Mitzi. The effect of the Fabelmans theme coming in only for the first time at the end is like a warm blanket. All those piano pieces work beautifully, the Bach Adagio chief among them. And I love that James Darren song that scores the senior class beach party. "Goodbye cruel world, I'm off to join the circus." THAT'S the movie. In that sense I don't think Spielberg is contradicting himself at all in his quote about movies lying stiff without music, John Williams is just sharing that space with all these musical memories. 

 

The way I interpreted the very low key, subdued character of the score (which disappointed me too in the first place, but I learned to appreciate more afterwards) is a conscious choice of avoiding any layer of sentimentalism and melodrama to what was an intimate family portrait that veers towards personal disclosure. Despite a lot of Spielberg's family private drama was already known to the public, the film feels a bit like putting the dirty laundry out in the garden. It's true that a lot of it is painted with watercolor tones and dream-like shades, and there is melodrama also in many moments of the film, but I supposed that Williams' reaction to all this was "let's not add even a small dash of sugarcoat on this" and possibly Spielberg agreed with that sentiment and let scenes play mostly without music or with needledrops. Whenever Williams' original score enters, it's so discrete and reserved as if it doesn't want to be noticed at all. It's a choice that I respect and, at this point of their 50-year collab, is also earned. I don't think this film will be looked upon as something essential of their collaboration, but more like as small, quiet, autumnal goodbye to each other.

 

I'd love to see the alternate universe version of the film in which Williams scored all the key scenes and moments, though. I too have the feeling that this is somehow a missed opportunity score-wise.

[mrbellamy 8,269]

I'd love another 30 minutes that expanded this material and it's not that I think there's nothing else available for him in the film, necessarily (although that was their judgment). I don't think it's invalid at all to think it would have been a better film with more score, or more impactful as an artistic statement between the two of them. I just think it's characterizing this too much as a self-betrayal which makes me  they collaborated and from everything they've said they gave more of themselves than usual, this was the result. 

[GerateWohl 6,539]

I guess, the question we are all asking ourselves, if Spielberg hadn't filmed his own and his parents' story, if for him this would have been just a coming of age story about a fictional young film maker to illustrate the struggles of growing up to live his dream, had there been more score from John? I guess, yes. The reasons for the sparse score have a lot to do with the fact that it is such a personal story. 

 

Therefore, maybe someone else should have directed the movie, with still Williams writing the score.

[Parker Luciani 10,300]

16 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

I guess, the question we are all asking ourselves, if Spielberg hadn't filmed his own and his parents' story, if for him this would have been just a coming of age story about a fictional young film maker to illustrate the struggles of growing up to live his dream, had there been more score from John? I guess, yes. The reasons for the sparse score have a lot to do with the fact that it is such a personal story. 

 

Therefore, maybe someone else should have directed the movie, with still Williams writing the score.

So you are saying Spielberg made Williams tell Spielberg he didn't need music? And that another Director wouldn't have made Williams tell him he didn't need music?

[GerateWohl 6,539]

3 minutes ago, Little Ghost said:

So you are saying Spielberg made Williams, tell Spielberg he didn't need music? And that another Director wouldn't have made Williams tell him he didn't need music?

Exactly. 

Because it wouldn't have been such a personal topic.

And with nother director Williams would have thought, "I need to put in a lot of music to save the movie for Steven."

[Marian Schedenig 11,860]

3 hours ago, Little Ghost said:

So you are saying Spielberg made Williams tell Spielberg he didn't need music? And that another Director wouldn't have made Williams tell him he didn't need music?

 

"You need a better composer than me to score this film." - "No, they write too much better music."

[Sunshine Reger 3,716]

Judging by the spirit of the times...

 

John: Steven, you need a botter composer for this film.

Steven: I know, but A.I. all bad.

[Poor_Man_S_HirschFeld 97]

I can't write about the book itself because I haven't read it yet.

However, I love Tim's candor about the whole process shared in his substack. There's a lot to learn, even for those who aren't considering becoming writers or biographers. I believe Tim is perfectly entitled to his opinions—especially since he frames them as such, rather than presenting them as undisputed truths—and he elaborates on them with care.

That said, I completely disagree with his assessment of The Fabelmans. Like many others, I was probably anticipating this movie to a degree that could have been detrimental to my enjoyment of it.

This level of investment in something can lead to either blind approval of the thing that is anticipated or unwarranted scorn.

But I’ve also learned that my aesthetic sense is pretty well tuned by now, even about things I've been anticipating or towards which I have a positive predisposition.

I don’t mean my views are “objective” or “correct,” but I usually have a good sense of how I’ll feel about something quite early on—even if it takes me time to rationally articulate why something works or doesn’t. (Basically, if I had to rate something from 1 to 10 right away, I could do it immediately. But writing a proper, well-balanced review might take me weeks or months. Still, all things considered, I’d likely end up giving it the same rating.)

And I really liked The Fabelmans in every way. Its use of music, to me, felt just right—for my aesthetic sense. It almost felt like the movie was tailored to my taste.

To be clear, it’s not that I generally prefer this sparse approach. I actually enjoy when directors get a bit indulgent—think of the soundtracks in Casino or Kill Bill, for instance. But in this case, I loved the care taken to strike what, for me, was the perfect balance of music to set the film’s tone.

It’s careful.

The film, by the way, isn’t entirely devoid of music. But yes, the portion of the soundtrack composed by John Williams is quite limited—and that’s where the balance lies.

I think the hosts of the Settling the Score podcast expressed this very, very well.

Settling the Score – 2023 Oscars Special

Discussion about The Fabelmans starts at 01:57:00.

[kingtolkien 57]

The substack post and the Biography helped me realise why Williams concert works 'appear' quite different from his film work. 

I mean he has written so many memorable themes and pieces for films so he feels that for the few concerti he has done he should do something different. 

I get it now.

I do not understand why he dismisses most of his pre70's work. 

This was the music that was required for the film he had done and he has done exceptionally well.

A guide for the married man and penelope are not as good as Home Alone and The post but that doesn't make them inferior music. 

[Jurassic Shark 16,563]

2 minutes ago, kingtolkien said:

A guide for the married man and penelope are not as good as Home Alone and The post but that doesn't make them inferior music. 

 

If they're not as good, they are inferior.

[crocodile 9,798]

Latest entry about John Williams' interest in Doctor Faustus by Thomas Mann.

 

So pleased that my favourite composer also loves one of my favourite books. Made my day. 😀

 

Karol

[Marian Schedenig 11,860]

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

Latest entry about John Williams' interest in Doctor Faustus by Thomas Mann.

 

There's the next sensationalist headline for the press: "Did John Williams sell his soul to the devil?"

[Jurassic Shark 16,563]

No, I don't think he's joined RCP... yet.

[BB-8 6,421]

 

[crocodile 9,798]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

There's the next sensationalist headline for the press: "Did John Williams sell his soul to the devil?"

That would actually explain a lot!

 

Karol

[Marian Schedenig 11,860]

[BB-8 6,421]

[mrbellamy 8,269]

Just wanna say it was great to get an update in the Town Hall that Williams is still able to be at the piano every day playing and composing, and I would love to see some kind of Conversations with John Williams format to share these extended interviews, maybe an e-book. That clip at the beginning was gold lol, Tim Greiving is the bravest of all of us. 

[Sunshine Reger 3,716]

What is interesting to me, and kind of closes a topic I used to wonder about...

 

Williams being a regular reader of the New York Times provides evidence he probably did read the music column by Henry Pleasants.