Missing and mishandled themes in Rogue One

[ThomasFernando 109]

I don’t envy Giacchino for the position he was put in - completing the Rogue One score in roughly a month. He really had very little time to develop strong motivic material, and instead leaned into a very tropey sound: a pastiche of Williams’ style, something that characterises many of Giacchino’s other scores.

 

From what I’ve read on this site, Williams was unhappy with the extent to which his themes were used. Perhaps he expected to be credited with the “Music by” credit, with Giacchino listed as “Score Adapted by.” I imagine he may also have expected an increased fee. or that, in some way, it would have cost Disney more to go that route. Not sure if this is true, but that’s what JWFan would have you believe!

 

Either way, given the extremely tight turnaround, it seems the compromise was simply to go into the score and delete instances of Williams’ themes. What you get instead are very odd-sounding passages, where (clumsy) countermelodies - originally intended to underscore Williams’ themes - are pushed awkwardly to the foreground.

 

Confrontation on Eadu, along with several other passages, is conspicuously missing a statement of Williams’ Force Theme. It sounds like the theme was meant to be there but was removed before the score reached the recording stage.

 

For the opening title, it sounds like Giacchino had one version with Williams’ Star Wars Main Title, and another with the Force Theme. Both were replaced with some very awkward-sounding "melodies". Goodness me…

 

 

 

It seems that Giacchino’s stunt-double for the Force Theme throughout the score is his Jyn Erso/Hope theme, which sounds an awful lot like Across the Stars, leading with that minor 6th interval. It’s very tropey and meandering. It hits the broadly “emotional” tone of the Force Theme but lacks the interesting harmony, melodic writing, and narrative resonance of Williams’ original - or even his Episode II love theme. A little forgettable.

 

 

His Imperial theme is slightly more successful, although it’s clearly a reconfiguration of Williams’ Imperial March. In a world where there were no complications surrounding Giacchino’s use of Williams’ themes, I have little doubt these score passages would have simply featured the Imperial March. In the context of the film, it would have been entirely appropriate to use that melody.

 

 

The other melody that arguably makes the most sense to use is the Rebel Fanfare. The film is about the rebels, after all, and I think Giacchino could have given himself an interesting challenge: take this brief motif and transform it into a more developed musical idea across a full score. What we get in the film is fine - it’s hard to go wrong with this little gem of a motif - but I think the film invited a more intelligent approach from a conceptual standpoint. Had Williams composed the score, I’m sure he would have found creative ways to develop the motif into something more substantial.

 

 

Going back to the “missing themes” in the score, there are a few passages that, perhaps, make me grateful Williams’ themes were mercifully deleted from the rest of it… Yikes.

 

 

What other instances of painfully misused -  or missing - themes have I overlooked in Rogue One, or frankly, in any score? This one offers plenty to dissect, but I’m sure there are other moments out there where a theme was mishandled?

[Erik Woods 780]

4 hours ago, ThomasFernando said:

 

 

For me, the alleged controversy or drama surrounding the score will always be more interesting than the score itself. From everything I’ve read on this site, it sounds like Williams was unhappy with the extent to which his themes were used. Perhaps he expected to be credited with the “Music by” credit, with Giacchino listed as “Score Adapted by.” I imagine he may also have expected an increased fee. or that, in some way, it would have cost Disney more to go that route.

 

Given the extremely tight turnaround, it seems the compromise was simply to go into the score and delete instances of Williams’ themes. What you get instead are very odd-sounding passages, where (clumsy) countermelodies - originally intended to underscore Williams’ themes - are pushed awkwardly to the foreground.

 

This literally didn’t happen. What ever was said about Williams not liking the use of his themes is a fabricated lie even though those rumours came from a reputable film music journalist. Not sure where he heard that crap from but it’s utterly false.

 

 -Erik-

[ThomasFernando 109]

1 hour ago, Erik Woods said:

This literally didn’t happen. What ever was said about Williams not liking the use of his themes is a fabricated lie even though those rumours came from a reputable film music journalist. Not sure where he heard that crap from but it’s utterly false.

 

 -Erik-

I’m not pretending to have any insider info around the score - I’m just going off what I’ve read on this site. All speculation and rumours, as I said above.

Even if the rumours are false, that’s not really the point of my post. I’m interested in the use of Williams’ themes in the film. Giacchino’s handling of the themes in the score is clumsy, and their treatment in some passages creates more questions than answers.

 

I’ve updated my post to make that clear 

[Erik Woods 780]

I just wanted to make sure that the information provide was factual.

 

-Erik-

[Edmilson 10,451]

Clumsy is exactly how I'd describe Giacchino's score to Rogue One. I understand he was in the most difficult position possible (writing and recording in a month the music for the first Star Wars movie NOT scored by John Williams) so I forgive the clumsier parts. But at the same time most of his new themes and his handling of classic JW themes were laughable.

[ThomasFernando 109]

1 hour ago, Erik Woods said:

I just wanted to make sure that the information provide was factual.

 

-Erik-

Thank you.  Where does the JW rumour originate from, who was the original source on that?

 

[crumbs 15,499]

The score isn't a completely irredeemable disaster, but it's clear the pressure and time constraints got the better of Giacchino. Every cue sounds like a first pass that made it all the way to the recording stage.

 

A few days ago I tried giving the expansion another chance, but once I reached this passage I had to switch it off. The score is riddled with dreadful passages like this; simultaneously cringeworthy as a Williams pastiche, awkward as a Giacchino cue, and simply unmusical in its own right.

 

 

Giacchino should stick to being Giacchino, because he's a fine composer in his own right.

[ThomasFernando 109]

17 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Giacchino should stick to being Giacchino, because he's a fine composer in his own right.

Certainly agree, I think there are a couple of scores where his voice shines through - Up, Ratatouille.

 

But often when he has to work within a pre-exisiting IP, or pay homage to another composers work, the results range from dumb fun - Incredibles (John Barry), MI3 (Lalo Schifrin) - to awkward and clunky - Jurassic World (Williams), Ghost Protocol (Schifrin).

 

Joe Kraemer shared some good insights on the Light The Fuse podcast. Comparing his and Giacchino’s approach to MI, he said that Gia’s score was an affectionate pastiche, with a bit more humour, winks and nods to the genre. I certainly agree with this assessment - whenever he uses a pre-existing theme, it is often done in a way which draws attention to the theme - “name that tune!”

 

Kraemer wrote as if he was actually scoring an episode of the 60s TV show, using and developing the Mission themes as if they were his own creation. The integration and synthesis of his own material with the pre-existing themes is a lot more organic in my opinion.

[crumbs 15,499]

We also got a direct comparison after Rogue One with Solo.

 

Admittedly Powell had a lot more time, but his deconstruction and integration of Williams' Solo sketches into the score proper is exceptional – they feel organically woven into the tapestry and sit alongside Powell's themes seamlessly. Solo also feels like a John Powell score; his musical voice shines through.

 

It's a stark contrast to Giacchino's integrations of Williams themes. Clunky key changes, random notes switched, new Giacchino-esque extensions... and using his own themes in counterpoint to Williams' was misguided.

 

 

[artguy360 2,013]

Clumsy is a fair word to describe the Rogue One score but it mostly works in the film, does a decent job of channeling JW's Star Wars mode, and is a respectable achievement given the immense time constraint MG was facing. The worst bits are all detailed in the OP, but these are mere seconds of music in a 2 hour score. 

[Trope 1,188]

Yes, this is actually one of Gia's better scores IMO, given the circumstances. There are many clunky parts (as to be expected in most of his scores), but I actually think the score serves the picture well. In some of the quieter, underscore moments, I even think he does an admirable job of imitating Williams' 1977 style (particularly with the woodwinds and muted brass). There are so many other Gia scores that I would rank below Rogue One.

[Chen G. 5,138]

Yeah. I also think it services the movie well.

 

The main motive achieves something that these prequel-type scores rarely accomplish for me: when the hologram plays in Ben's hut and the music on which Gia clearly modelled his theme appears, I have involuntary memories of the Rogue One gang!

[Luke Skywalker 2,181]

Talking about film-tv media, it is the only non williams star wars score that sounds like williams, or by the least, problably the only one who tried to extend the williams sound.

 

if giacchino was truly forced not to dwell on williams music so much it is a shame because it probsbly would have been much better.

powell had the advantage of williams wanting to create a new theme (out of the blue for a 40 year old character… much like obi wan, it would habe been better if he had wsnted to create jyn erso and krennic themes) but i dont psrticularly hear any williams sound extension. And the reminiscence therapy track is an atrocious pastiche imo, half the music used makes no sense thematically. Ironically maybe it was williams aporoved since some parts of the dial of destiny prologue suffer from the same.

 

 

 

i find the title of this thread ironic, as in who cares, if they even made a two season series prequel and they dont use any themes nor try to sound slighlty similar to rogue one.

[ThomasFernando 109]

2 hours ago, Trope said:

Yes, this is actually one of Gia's better scores IMO, given the circumstances. There are many clunky parts (as to be expected in most of his scores), but I actually think the score serves the picture well. In some of the quieter, underscore moments, I even think he does an admirable job of imitating Williams' 1977 style (particularly with the woodwinds and muted brass).

 

To Gia's credit, I think he and more importantly, his orchestrators are highly adept at emulating other composers' styles. The Williams blueprint is certainly there in Rogue One, as well as his Jurassic scores. The '60s sounds of John Barry and Lalo Schifrin are all over Incredibles and MI3-4.

 

I've never found his melodic writing particularly strong, his work is more effective on a textural/stylistic level.

 

Even when Gia is working with his own thematic material, and especially when he's trying to work with pre-existing themes, the end result is a bit messy and unsatisfying. There are only a small handful of Gia melodies that I find truly enjoyable to listen to, but there are plenty of busy passages or interesting orchestrations in his scores that I can appreciate.

6 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

 

if giacchino was truly forced not to dwell on williams music so much it is a shame because it probsbly would have been much better.

 

I completely agree. I think if Giacchino was allowed to freely use these themes as much as he wanted, the score would have turned out better. Those themes are conspicuously missing from the score. Comparing Rogue One to the Obi-Wan score, for example (Holt) I know which one I prefer... Rogue One at least sounds like Star Wars, from an orchestration perspective. Even if it's a pastiche it still exists in that sound world.

8 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

And the reminiscence therapy track is an atrocious pastiche imo, half the music used makes no sense thematically.

 

Love the Solo score, but I can agree that the first part of the Kessel Run, where it's a straight lift from the original trilogy scores, is the least interesting action cue. But I do enjoy some of the Powell-isms (the added percussion and brass accents).

 

But honestly, we are so spoiled for interesting action arrangements throughout the rest of the score, I'll settle for a bit of "Reminiscence Therapy" just for that scene.

11 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

 

i find the title of this thread ironic, as in who cares, if they even made a two season series prequel and they dont use any themes nor try to sound slighlty similar to rogue one.

 

Very true. I haven't watched Andor yet, but I really like Britell's work on the first season's music. The filmmakers probably wanted a safe score for Rogue One and weren't ready to be a bit more ambitious. After The Mandalorian's score, I think they were willing to go a bit further - and if Rogue One was made today, I think we could expect something along the lines of Britell's score.

 

I think a more sombre and textural score like Britell's work may have actually suited the film more. I've always found the first and second acts of Rogue One lack any real emotional impact or intrigue for me, and things only get fun in the third act. Perhaps a more timbral and contemporary approach to the score would have sold the espionage and character drama of the film more than a Williams-style orchestral score.

[Chen G. 5,138]

19 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

it is the only non williams star wars score that sounds like williams, or by the least, problably the only one who tried to extend the williams sound.

 

Well, Solo too.

 

Afterwards composers seem to find the idea of meeting Williams on his own playing field to be too daunting.

[Erik Woods 780]

12 hours ago, ThomasFernando said:

Thank you.  Where does the JW rumour originate from, who was the original source on that?

 

I first saw it on this board from a prominent film music journalist and author who should have known better.

 

As for Giacchino music, his sketches are incredibly detailed much like John Williams. 
 

And his thematic writing is extremely strong especially if you’ve heard MoH.

 

-Erik-

[crumbs 15,499]

1 hour ago, ThomasFernando said:

Comparing Rogue One to the Obi-Wan score, for example (Holt) I know which one I prefer... Rogue One at least sounds like Star Wars, from an orchestration perspective. Even if it's a pastiche it still exists in that sound world.

 

This is an important point. As critical as my posts might sound about Giacchino's score, I still respect the hell out of him for delivering an orchestral score in the style of Williams.

 

Contrast that with the bland, forgettable scoring that's plagued some of the ensuing shows. It's worth celebrating a composer who tried to emulate the symphonic approach, especially while hamstrung by time constraints.

[Edmilson 10,451]

My problem with Giacchino is that he seemed to get less... interesting... as his career went along. During the 2000s/early 2010s his music was great in stuff like Lost, The Incredibles, Ratatouille, Up (he did deserve that Oscar), Star Trek, Super 8, John Carter... He sure was one of the better composers working in Hollywood at the time.

 

But then as he got bigger and better gigs it seems that his music became way less interesting. I give him a pass for Rogue One even though I don't like it, but Doctor Strange was just plain bad. He felt like a fanboy trying to imitate The Greats™, which is something that affects many composers who grew up with Williams, Goldsmith and the like. 

 

Still, from the past decade, there's a few scores from him that I really like: Tomorrowland, War for the POTA, Spider-Man: Homecoming and Far from Home...

[Not Mr. Big 4,815]

18 hours ago, Erik Woods said:

This literally didn’t happen. What ever was said about Williams not liking the use of his themes is a fabricated lie even though those rumours came from a reputable film music journalist. Not sure where he heard that crap from but it’s utterly false.

 

 -Erik-

Your source could be John Williams himself and I would still believe the story is true.

Lots of people have corroborated it, including some professionals in the industry.

If you formally asked someone involved about a situation like that, they wouldn't want to throw one of their professional colleagues under the bus (there isn't a single party that comes out of that story looking better (producers, directors, Giacchino, even Williams).  

[Meredith McKay 7,854]

13 hours ago, crumbs said:

The score is riddled with dreadful passages like this; simultaneously cringeworthy as a Williams pastiche, awkward as a Giacchino cue, and simply unmusical in its own right.

 

 

Giacchino should stick to being Giacchino, because he's a fine composer in his own right.

Sounds fine to me, not too much different from most SW Non-Williams SW music pre-Obi-Wan

 

 

[Erik Woods 780]

21 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Your source could be John Williams himself and I would still believe the story is true.

Lots of people have corroborated it, including some professionals in the industry.

If you formally asked someone involved about a situation like that, they wouldn't want to throw one of their professional colleagues under the bus (there isn't a single party that comes out of that story looking better (producers, directors, Giacchino, even Williams).  

It’s false. Never happened. Giacchino had free reign to do what ever he wanted for the score and use what ever themes he wanted to. Williams didn’t have a say on which themes to use and never asked him to replace themes. 
 

-Erik-

[Not Mr. Big 4,815]

15 minutes ago, Erik Woods said:

It’s false. Never happened. Giacchino had free reign to do what ever he wanted for the score and use what ever themes he wanted to. Williams didn’t have a say on which themes to use and never asked him to replace themes. 
 

-Erik-

I would be convinced if you saw "hard evidence" it wasn't true like sheet music dates and records from the Sony Scoring Stage (with this kind of thing, there would be excess revisions late in the game and certain themes might have been written later in the process).  

[Erik Woods 780]

6 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I would be convinced if you saw "hard evidence" it wasn't true like sheet music dates and records from the Sony Scoring Stage (with this kind of thing, there would be excess revisions late in the game and certain themes might have been written later in the process).  

Well that ain’t happening but I guess the words of the people who actually worked on the score mean nothing to you so whatever. 
 

And these people have no reason to lie to me or provide false information. I’ve known them for close 25 years. 
 

-Erik-

[Not Mr. Big 4,815]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

My problem with Giacchino is that he seemed to get less... interesting... as his career went along. During the 2000s/early 2010s his music was great in stuff like Lost, The Incredibles, Ratatouille, Up (he did deserve that Oscar), Star Trek, Super 8, John Carter... He sure was one of the better composers working in Hollywood at the time.

I'm rewatching Lost right now and it might be the greatest TV score of all time (No Place Like Home is an A+ theme).  There's also some pretty adventurous stuff in there harmonically, you can hear his writing evolve as it goes along. 

I think he overstretched himself and basically became the only guy regularly getting work in the "big thematic orchestral sphere".  His writing style took a hit too as it became more streamlined and simple (possibly Giacchinos own answer to the revision heavy modern scoring process).  

9 minutes ago, Erik Woods said:

Well that ain’t happening but I guess the words of the people who actually worked on the score mean nothing to you so whatever. 
 

And these people have no reason to lie to me or provide false information. I’ve known them for close 25 years. 
 

-Erik-

I just don't think they'd wanna throw their professional colleagues under the bus, especially when it could be directly attributed back to them 

[Ollie 1,285]

I’m gonna state this once, not that anyone cares. Everyone knows I’m a huge Giacchino fan, even to the annoyance of certain members here.

 

There is nothing wrong with Rogue One, it’s one of the better Star Wars scores to come from the latter since Disney took over. It segues perfectly into the film that follows, Stars Wars, for those of us old school members that carry the torch for 1977.

 

I have more annoyance with the approach Williams and Powell took on Solo with certain selections than I do Rogue One. Thanks to @Luke Skywalker for pointing out one of them.

 

While I definitely would have loved to hear a Desplat scored Star Wars film, I’m glad they handed it to someone capable who had respect for the subject matter.

 

 

 

 

[Erik Woods 780]

11 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

 

I just don't think they'd wanna throw their professional colleagues under the bus, especially when it could be directly attributed back to them 

Nope, that’s not it.

 

-Erik-

[Tom 5,600]

39 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I would be convinced if you saw "hard evidence" it wasn't true like sheet music dates and records from the Sony Scoring Stage (with this kind of thing, there would be excess revisions late in the game and certain themes might have been written later in the process).  

There cannot be evidence to the claim that Williams did not make any requests.  The burden of proof has to be on the one making claims that something did happen.

 

As to the score, I disliked it immensely at first, but it has grown on me.  I think its biggest problem is the title card music--sounds like a such a cheap imitation of the main title.  Just use the main title or do something completely different.  The rest of the score is fine.  

[Luke Skywalker 2,181]

Erik, I never truly believed williams forced rewrites or banned giacchino from his sequel scores (and he eventually finished his jurassic world trilogy).

 

Is there a reason giacchino did not use more rebel fanfare in the final battle? I supose the imperial march absence from star wars forced him to use it slightly only for vader. But why not use the imperial motif more? Or the death star motif?

 

i love rogue one but had always envisioned a giacchino star wars score (even for a videogame if he had done it in the 2000s) to use williams more and develop them in different ways.

[Meredith McKay 7,854]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

I think its biggest problem is the title card music--sounds like a such a cheap imitation of the main title.  Just use the main title or do something completely different.  The rest of the score is fine.  

Technically, he kinda tried that:

 

 

[Datameister 2,437]

I can't get onboard with the level of contempt a lot of people seem to feel for this score.

 

Of course it's nowhere near Williams level, and some parts are downright irritating. Many of the new themes are so similar to old ones that they're distracting on first watch. The main title is cringey the first time you hear it and expect it to go into Luke's theme. And generally, Giacchino goes too hard too early and too often, rather than letting the score build to its climax.

 

But it's an interesting experiment in JW pastiche, and it has a lot of nice moments. I especially don't understand the vitriol toward the Force theme statements. And the whole last stretch works beautifully.

[enderdrag64 1,427]

19 hours ago, ThomasFernando said:

Thank you.  Where does the JW rumour originate from, who was the original source on that?

 

These are the posts that originated it, to my knowledge:

 

deleted account = elvisjones, who Jay has vouched for before.

But also as you can see above Erik Woods disputes this account. I don't have any industry contacts so I couldn't tell you what's true and what isn't. 

[Chen G. 5,138]

5 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Is there a reason giacchino did not use more rebel fanfare in the final battle? I supose the imperial march absence from star wars forced him to use it slightly only for vader. But why not use the imperial motif more? Or the death star motif?

 

I just think the tone of the Rebel Fanfare might not have suited the slightly more desperate atmosphere that the battle in this film cultivates. Quite possibly, the Death Star motive was disused on similar grounds: it's Williams in "comically evil" mode which of course works terrifically for the original but not really for this film.

[Edmilson 10,451]

44 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

But also as you can see above Erik Woods disputes this account. I don't have any industry contacts so I couldn't tell you what's true and what isn't. 

I don't think we'll ever know the full truth about what happened.

 

Still, the most infuriating part of his account is that JW did want to score Deathly Hallows but JKR did everything in her power to veto that because of some dumb, idiotic prejudice against American composers. It gives credence to that old rumor that she hated JW's scores for the first three HP movies.

[Tallguy 5,645]

I love this score. I love it more than Solo. I know that Powell arguably wrote a better score and had he been trying to write a score for this movie score he would probably have done a better job.

 

But I love this score, I love the things that it tries to do and I think it largely succeeds at them. I adore his original themes. I love his use of the Williams themes.

 

And you know what theme Williams uses over and over for the Rebels in the Battle of Yavin? Ben's theme. Not for Luke. For the x-wings. For the good guys.

 

 

[Meredith McKay 7,854]

21 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

But I love this score, I love the things that it tries to do and I think it largely succeeds at them.

It's not a terrible score, but it's not as good as I would have liked.

 

2:37

 

[bored 564]

It's simple for me, nothing about this score ever stood out to me, good or bad. John Powell's Solo always did in a good way. I remember no original melody from Rogue One, I remember Williams' Han theme, the callbacks in the Kessel Run, the choral Marauder theme, and the Powell-esque sound seamlessly blended with Williams' in Solo. I like a lot of earlier Giacchino scores, but Rogue One onwards has done very little for me. 

[Meredith McKay 7,854]

1 minute ago, bored said:

It's simple for me, nothing about this score ever stood out to me, good or bad. John Powell's Solo always did in a good way. I remember no original melody from Rogue One, I remember Williams' Han theme, the callbacks in the Kessel Run, the choral Marauder theme, and the Powell-esque sound seamlessly blended with Williams' in Solo. I like a lot of earlier Giacchino scores, but Rogue One onwards has done very little for me. 

Krennics theme. 2:14

 

 

[bored 564]

I personally never noticed, that's all. Even now it doesn't really stand out that much to me.

[Edmilson 10,451]

I think Giacchino's material for Krennic and the Empire was just dreadful, very hard to take seriously.

[Meredith McKay 7,854]

Just now, Edmilson said:

I think Giacchino's material for Krennic and the Empire was just dreadful, very hard to take seriously.

I think it's great (the Krennic theme, not the "Not-Imperial March" theme, the kind of writing we don't get any more because everyone is too busy tryung to be cool and "serious"

[Datameister 2,437]

I find Giacchino's R1 themes much more noticeable and memorable than Powell's Solo themes. There's a lot to love about the Solo score, and the themes certainly aren't derivative like R1's are, but they also don't stand out as much. It took me a number of listens to realize Chewie even had a theme. I also find some of the themes (mainly Beckett's and L3's) to simply not fit the characters they represent.

 

What Solo does have is brilliant sound quality, a surprisingly cohesive blend of one composer's themes into another's style, and arguably greater sophistication in the writing. 

 

As much as I like R1's score, it really demonstrates how hard it is to do what JW does. You can apply deep love and knowledge of his Star Wars style and create something that bears a lot of its hallmarks, yet somehow falls far short.

 

I will say that while the new Imperial theme is silly and unnecessary, I like Krennic's theme. The character is bureaucratic, ambitious, self-important, and ultimately a failure, and somehow I get all of that in his theme.

[Meredith McKay 7,854]

4 minutes ago, Datameister said:

I also find some of the themes (mainly Beckett's and L3's) to simply not fit the characters they represent.

Well, Powell doesn't exactly write themes for characters per se. (For example in HTTYD, one of the themes (which was previously referred to as Hiccup's theme by fans) is called "Winds of Change"

[bored 564]

6 minutes ago, Meredith McKay said:

Well, Powell doesn't exactly write themes for characters per se. (For example in HTTYD, one of the themes (which was previously referred to as Hiccup's theme by fans) is called "Winds of Change"

 

Wait, which one was that? The main theme from "Test Drive"? A lot of the first film's themes' meaning are kind of confusing even though I love the score. 

[Meredith McKay 7,854]

10 minutes ago, bored said:

 

Wait, which one was that? The main theme from "Test Drive"?

No, that one was/is the Flying/Friendship Theme.

 

Winds of Change is the theme in this demo main title:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gMCCtBo-EsVWa81aT4aaGqifdduQimSL/view?usp=sharing

[bored 564]

Ah, so does the "Test Drive" theme not have an official name still besides what fans assume?

 

Edit: Yes I did, and that makes a lot of sense. It seemed like a quasi-theme for Stoick and Hiccup, and relationships in general, so that name fits well too.

[Meredith McKay 7,854]

8 minutes ago, bored said:

Ah, so does that one not have an official name still? Also I still would like to know which one is "Winds of Change".

I assume you didn't see my edit? It's in the video linked above, in the very beginning.

 

EDIT: Here is my post from when the HTTYD set came out: 

 

[bored 564]

Thank you so much! I'm happy I was right about "Test Drive" being a Hiccup and Toothless theme, as I always assumed that to be the main idea for it! I'm also surprised that "See You Tomorrow" was a fate theme, as I always thought it was a dragon taming one. 

 

But yeah back on topic, Powell's style just stands out to me more overall for whatever reason. I felt The Incredibles and Ratatouille and Up felt pretty distinct, but also fairly stylized with each having stand-out jazz/French elements (hell even his Spider-Man work feels more unique to him in that way), but a lot of his other work just feels like it blends into other composers' work without feeling uniquely Giacchino. Hard to describe but Rogue One falls into this category for me as well. 

[Meredith McKay 7,854]

11 minutes ago, bored said:

But yeah back on topic, Powell's style just stands out to me more overall for whatever reason. I felt The Incredibles and Ratatouille and Up felt pretty distinct, but also fairly stylized with each having stand-out jazz/French elements (hell even his Spider-Man work feels more unique to him in that way), but a lot of his other work just feels like it blends into other composers work without feeling uniquely Giacchino.

I feel the opposite, it feels aggressively like Giacchino, just alot of his worse tendencies some (most?) times

 

For example this aggressive annoyance: 

 

[bored 564]

I'm sure many already knew this but that passage makes me recognize even more that Giacchino sometimes sticks way too much to simplistic motifs, and rather than transform them or vary them, he often just repeats them ad-nauseum or makes them more intense and that's it. This often causes it to feel overdramatic or silly rather than intense and/or exciting. His Batman theme is my least favorite example of this. 

[Meredith McKay 7,854]

23 minutes ago, bored said:

I'm sure many already knew this but that passage makes me recognize even more that Giacchino sometimes sticks way too much to simplistic motifs, and rather than transform them or vary them, he often just repeats them ad-nauseum or makes them more intense and that's it. This often causes it to feel overdramatic or silly rather than intense and/or exciting. His Batman theme is my least favorite example of this. 

You mean when he heard Jack Reacher/Anakin's Dark Deeds and decided a section would work for Batman?