What is JW's WORST movie theme?

[artguy360 2,154]

We're all JW fans here and we all love his music and his gifts to our music loving lives. But even a genius like JW has some clunkers from time to time. 

 

So, with that disclaimer out of the way, what in your opinion is JW's worst theme? This could be a main theme or minor theme. And please explain what you don't like about it or why it doesn't work for you.

 

My answer is the theme from Monsignor. Firstly, I'm not a fan of the plucky sound. Second, the main melody sounds like a bad riff on the Godfather theme. Lastly, the progression of the main theme is very simple; it just gets louder and then ends. In total, it just doesn't do much for me which is incredibly rare for JW music.

https://youtu.be/NtCxk3wTO_0?si=HLVhg8BCzYaG5jdn

[Jim 6,122]

Mutt 

[Loert 3,085]

Lockhart

 

 

I'm not really a fan of this cutesy, quirky style of writing when JW does it

[Jurassic Shark 15,869]

Stepmom

[GerateWohl 6,359]

I don't like "The Accidental Tourist".

It does not work for a monothematic score. 

But I must add, I never saw the movie.

 

And in addition: The worst JW theme ist still better than 85% out there.

[Richard P 5,060]

The Crystal Skull theme.

 

My longer held least favourite is Across the Stars, but it's got more going for it than this one.

[bollemanneke 4,226]

I never liked the trumpet theme in the Patriot in the movie. Standalone, it worked way better for me.

[Jurassic Shark 15,869]

7 minutes ago, Richard P said:

My longer held least favourite is Across the Stars

 

Weird take.

[Jim 6,122]

51 minutes ago, Richard P said:

My longer held least favourite is Across the Stars

 

That and Battle of the Heroes always grated with me, but AtS is more overbearing.

 

I quite liked that Monsignor cue at the top of the page. Further in it reminded me of his Seven Years in Tibet theme.

[GerateWohl 6,359]

Another candidate is this trumpet theme at the beginning of Born on the 4th of July because it reminds me too much of The Terminator. 

 

 

And yes, Battle of Heroes is at least my least favourite Star Wars theme.

 

So, I guess I take back The Accidental Tourist. 

[blondheim 1,414]

This hatred for Battle of the Heroes and Across the Stars is heresy at best and truly blasphemous.

 

Shame.

[Jurassic Shark 15,869]

Across the Stars is vastly superior.

[Jim 6,122]

It's not really hatred, it's just more of a, nah it's too much.

[Trope 1,358]

The March of the Villains. It comes across like an early, unpolished concept of Ewok Parade (which is a big improvement), and sounds strangely out of character with the rest of the dramatic Superman score. I usually enjoy Williams' more "fluffy" and comedic themes (I love Hook, Home Alone, Harry Potter, etc.), but this one never really clicked with me.

[Jurassic Shark 15,869]

Yeah, it's way too comedic.

[blondheim 1,414]

Everyone always talks about The March of the Villains being too comedic and heavily coded towards Odo but there is something about the way the melody moves that sounds like the way a big gasbag like Luthor extemporizes, especially the way Hackman plays him. In the same way the Superman theme goes “Left Punch! Right Punch! Kapow!” Williams is really painting in that score.

 

So while I agree that March of the Villains is a good answer, I don’t think it’s as off as I used to think it is.

[thomas_cdvault 169]

It's hard to pick his "worst" theme, because I don't think any of them fall into the category of being BAD, but there are some I find less interesting than others...

 

Battle of the Heroes - not a fan of the film, not a fan of that scene. The music is good, but it doesn't really appeal to me. Compared to the brilliant Duel of the Fates, it's not quite as interesting and feels slightly static.

 

Psalm of the Sith/Anthem of Evil - not quite on the level of Kylo's theme or any of the Imperial themes from the Original Trilogy - but again, it's hindered by accompanying a bad film.

 

Let me reiterate, these are both great themes on a compositional level, totally appropriate for their contexts. Just not my personal favourites.

 

2 hours ago, Loert said:

Lockhart

 

I'm not really a fan of this cutesy, quirky style of writing when JW does it

 

You mean when William Ross does it? /s

[Jurassic Shark 15,869]

3 minutes ago, ThomasFernando said:

Battle of the Heroes - not a fan of the film, not a fan of that scene. The music is good, but it doesn't really appeal to me.

 

Anakin vs. Obi-Wan is much better.

[thomas_cdvault 169]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Anakin vs. Obi-Wan is much better.

 

Yes I prefer the film cue, there's a lot more variation and interest in the arrangement, but I'm still not overly keen on the material itself. 

[Edmilson 11,380]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

The worst JW theme ist still better than 85% out there.

Exactly.

[GerateWohl 6,359]

29 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Yeah, it's way too comedic.

Have you seen the movie? The whole staging and performance of the villains is comedic. The theme fits like a glove.

 

[BB-8 5,798]

Jaws

[thomas_cdvault 169]

3 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Have you seen the movie? The whole staging and performance of the villains is comedic. The theme fits like a glove.

 

 

I think you're both right... in the sense that the title seems mismatched. It's Otis' theme, and the film treats it as such.

 

But it's a great theme, very tuneful and catchy.

 

Surprisingly enough, Alexander Courage's treatment of the theme in Superman IV is pretty tasteful and actually enhances it, as a theme for Luthor himself.

 

Just now, BB-8 said:

Jaws

 

Not enough notes

[Jurassic Shark 15,869]

2 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Have you seen the movie? The whole staging and performance of the villains is comedic. The theme fits like a glove.

 

 

Indeed. The tone of those scenes is the root issue.

[Loert 3,085]

29 minutes ago, ThomasFernando said:

You mean when William Ross does it? /s

 

A less ambiguous example  

 

 

[Bryant Burnette 779]

This thread is shit.

[Edmilson 11,380]

2 minutes ago, Bryant Burnette said:

This thread is shit.

People shitting on Across the Stars made me regret opening it.

[Loert 3,085]

You can't please them all

 

 

 

 

 

[SpotTheDog 62]

Dobby the House Elf, with Parade of the Ewoks a close second. Neither is “bad” or “worst” by any metric. But I personally can’t stand them. 

[Jim 6,122]

John may be a god, but not everything god does is good.

[blondheim 1,414]

16 minutes ago, SpotTheDog said:

Dobby the House Elf, with Parade of the Ewoks a close second. Neither is “bad” or “worst” by any metric. But I personally can’t stand them. 

Oh no I love Dobby! I think that’s one of his most under-rated themes. When I hear it, I can close my eyes and I’m almost back in Christmas 2002 listening to it for the first time.

 

I love Parade of the Ewoks too, I mean, what else was he gonna do? And to be fair, he uses it in the score proper marvelously. He treats those little guys with respect.

[Jim 6,122]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

Have you seen the movie? The whole staging and performance of the villains is comedic. The theme fits like a glove.

 

 

Exactly.

 

March of the Villains is Williams at his comedic best.

[Richard P 5,060]

1 hour ago, blondheim said:

This hatred for Battle of the Heroes and Across the Stars is heresy at best and truly blasphemous.

 

Shame.

 

 

BotH is a pretty rubbish melody, now you come to mention it.

 

JNH is generally my favourite composer and some of his themes are also not that great. It's wise to accept the occasional lackings in one's work.

[blondheim 1,414]

I’m a great lover of the prequels and all they do. Too much?! Rubbish?!

 

SHAME.

[Tallguy 6,561]

1 hour ago, blondheim said:

Everyone always talks about The March of the Villains being too comedic and heavily coded towards Odo but there is something about the way the melody moves that sounds like the way a big gasbag like Luthor extemporizes, especially the way Hackman plays him. In the same way the Superman theme goes “Left Punch! Right Punch! Kapow!” Williams is really painting in that score.

 

So while I agree that March of the Villains is a good answer, I don’t think it’s as off as I used to think it is.

 

I think MotV is closer to The Imperial March than Parade of the Ewoks. But people hate Ewoks and they hate MotV so they must be the same. 

 

Imperial March winks at the camera a lot less, obviously.

[blondheim 1,414]

Don’t get me wrong, there is a great amount of Comedy in the scoring of Luthor in 1978 and if you have a problem with that, it’s really Donner etc.’s fault. Williams must score the film that is in front of him. Most of the time when someone is angry about March of the Villains it’s because the theme doesn't live up to Luthor’s legacy as a villain, except that is never what it was designed to do. I doubt John Williams was an avid reader of comic books at that time but Superman is an American staple so who knows?

 

That being said, I just don’t find it as comedic and out of place as people make it out to be, myself formerly being one of them. The theme matches Luthor very well actually, as portrayed by Hackman. I don’t think the theme’s a banger or anything but it’s way better than it’s street cred.

 

And now with all that being qualified, I would still place the Villain March from Superman closer to Ewok Parade than Imperial March. It’s just more of that vibe of winking but the action music transforms it. Whereas Imperial March gives danger right away. But I’m a fan of the Ewok Parade music and don’t think it’s as comedic and intolerable as other people.

[Bespin Copilot 10,285]

I'm not a fan of "Parade of the Ewoks."

 

Whenever I hear it, it has the same effect on me as if someone was singing a little child annoying song like: gna-gna-gna-gna gnaaaaa.

[GerateWohl 6,359]

14 minutes ago, Bespin Copilot said:

I'm not a fan of "Parade of the Ewoks."

 

Whenever I hear it, it has the same effect on me as if someone was singing a little child annoying song like: gna-gna-gna-gna gnaaaaa.

 

 

[Jim 6,122]

24 minutes ago, Bespin Copilot said:

I'm not a fan of "Parade of the Ewoks."

 

Whenever I hear it, it has the same effect on me as if someone was singing a little child annoying song like: gna-gna-gna-gna gnaaaaa.

 

I never liked it but I remember trying to during that listening phase.

[Poor_Man_S_HirschFeld 56]

I'm not a fan of Buckbeak's Flight, everything in the piece is fine, even great, but the melody in an of itself always sounded too... "thin"? Simplistic? But what do I know...

[Not Mr. Big 4,915]

The octave spanning love theme from Always.  It sounds too much like "Movie Love Theme" and lacks passion and intimacy.  And melodically it doesn't really go anywhere interesting.

[Mr. Hooper 7,574]

5 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I don't like "The Accidental Tourist".

It does not work for a monothematic score.

I gave it a fair chance, especially after David Newman named it as his favourite Williams, and some of you here were extolling it...

 

But, man, hardly a minute goes by where the theme's not repeated, and if you weren't a fan of it right away, you'll be liking it much less by the end.

 

I was listening to it on Tidal, and then something different played, and I was like, "Oh, now this is interesting...!"

 

It was some Ennio Morricone that the app chose to play automatically afterwards. lol

[King Mark 3,907]

Never liked Parade of the Ewoks much

[Mr. Hooper 7,574]

1 hour ago, SpotTheDog said:

Dobby the House Elf, with Parade of the Ewoks a close second. Neither is “bad” or “worst” by any metric. But I personally can’t stand them. 

 

55 minutes ago, Bespin Copilot said:

I'm not a fan of "Parade of the Ewoks."

 

Whenever I hear it, it has the same effect on me as if someone was singing a little child annoying song like: gna-gna-gna-gna gnaaaaa.

 

31 minutes ago, Quintus said:

I never liked it but I remember trying to during that listening phase.

 

5 minutes ago, King Mark said:

Never liked Parade of the Ewoks much

[Jim 6,122]

52 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

The octave spanning love theme from Always.  It sounds too much like "Movie Love Theme" and lacks passion and intimacy.  And melodically it doesn't really go anywhere interesting.

 

Williams at his schmaltzy, it's too on the nose.

[FBC Director 10,549]

ATS is a pompous sounding piece of music. Probably appropriate for a couple including an aristocrat.

 

Surprised no-one's mentioned Keeping Up With The Joneses yet.

[blondheim 1,414]

Keeping Up with the Joneses?!

 

I submit this thread be closed.

[bruce marshall 1,959]

" The Catamaran Race" from JAWS2 and other themes with that bouncy Haydnesque vibe e.g ' Adventure of Mutt"  from KOTCS

[Jurassic Shark 15,869]

12 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

" The Catamaran Race" from JAWS2 and other themes with that bouncy Haydnesque vibe e.g ' Adventure of Mutt"  from KOTCS

 

One would think this is the Hans Zimmer Fan forum.

 

2 hours ago, Richard P said:

JNH is generally my favourite composer and some of his themes are also not that great.

 

Most of his scores are not that great.

 

[Mr. Hooper 7,574]

12 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

" The Catamaran Race" from JAWS2