Return Of The King SCORE Discussion

[Morlock 11]

And I think the best moment musically and visualy is the lighting of the beacons.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I actually don't like the Fellowship theme. It sounds like Silvestri's Mummy Returns

Dude, what parts do you think are similar?

Stefancos- ???

[Morlock 11]

I think I need to rephrase- to me The Fellowship theme sounds an awful lot like the main adventure cue from MR- the one introduced in track 6 about a minute into it. (I'm terrible with track titles).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I figured you ment that, and i gotta tell you, i know both themes very well, and they sound nothing alike.

The only very general similarity is that they are adventurous brassy themes.

Stefancos- who thinks both themes kick ass.

[Morlock 11]

I found both to be extentions of one another. And hearing MR first and liking it in general more than LoTR made it come out that way. Now I juat don't enjoy the Fellowship theme. As a matter of fact, the only themes I really like from the movies are the Hobbit theme, the theme from The Last March of The Ents (don't know it's official title) and the Gondor theme. I find the Rohan theme to be very uninspired and unoriginal, not to mention sounding wrong on the Norwegian fiddle (but I've had this discussion before...)

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Maybe I missed it but there really didn't seem to be any major playing of that Rohan theme in the film.

[Morlock 11]

I don't know why people say this- I heard it several times (on that annoyinf fiddle). As a matter of fact- my friends, who I went with- none of them knows anything about soundtracks. On of them is a hiphop guy, one a heavy metalhead, and one who's just generaly messed up. All three of them came out humming the Rohan theme.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Hmm, I think I just heard a bit of Into The West or another similar theme from RotK in TTT:EE. Listen carefully in the "Heir of Númenor" scene, when Gandalf talks about Frodo and how his quest is very important and everything. I think you can hear some bits of a theme that was also at the Grey Havens or something. I'm not sure, because it seems to be quite hidden, but I think it's there.

- Marc

[Miz 139]

Rohan's theme is fairly prominent in ROTK. I heard it in our first return to the hilltop city (Aowen's hair blowing again), obviously altered during Rohirrim scenes (a la CD soundtrack) and also in their charge down the hillside. A friend of mine, who shows some interest in film scores, said the music was most prominent in ROTK - he recognised (and recited) the Rohan theme, and understood the leitmotif of different themes for different locations. I argued that this is because the other films provide the basis for these recurrences, and the themes in ROTK are weaker than the other two - but if the audience notices the music most in the final installment, surely Shore got it right?

And it's not a bad theme, though I'd like to hear Morlocks reasons for a Noregian fiddle being unsuitable. I think it's great.

The One Ring theme did appear many times throughout the film, but was usually overshadowed by the new diagetic sound design of the Ring.

If you'd like a theme similar to Silvestri's main Mummy Returns action theme, try the Back to the Future theme. Both very similar, and very good. But the Fellowship theme is pretty unique (anyone heard any themes like it?).

Themes that I missed were Isengard (March of the Ents, Morlock) which made a delayed appearance when the eagles fought the Nazgul, and I think this scene should have used an action slant on that theme. The main elf theme didn't appear once either, which was a great shame (one of the best themes in the films), though I suppose it had little cause to.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And it's not a bad theme, though I'd like to hear Morlocks reasons for a Noregian fiddle being unsuitable. I think it's great.

And Weal's reasons

The One Ring theme did appear many times throughout the film, but was usually overshadowed by the new diagetic sound design of the Ring.

I liked the solo violin version in track 1 on the CD.

If you'd like a theme similar to Silvestri's main Mummy Returns action theme, try the Back to the Future theme. Both very similar, and very good. But the Fellowship theme is pretty unique (anyone heard any themes like it?).

Not me.

The main elf theme didn't appear once either, which was a great shame (one of the best themes in the films), though I suppose it had little cause to.

I'm guessing you are referring to the theme for the Elves of Lorien?

Not sure it is plays when Frodo has a vision of Galadriel, but that's more or less the only scene Shore could have used it. (though perhaps when Frodo uses the star phail)

The Rivendell Elf theme was used, as were the 2 themes for Arwen.

Stefancos- still wondering were the Lorien Elves went after Helms Deep.

[Morlock 11]

I also liked the solo violin in track one. Although it did remind me of the solo violin Menken uses for the lamp in Aladdin in 'Legend of The Lamp'.

The reason I don't like the fiddle is that I thinka celtic or Irish sound is wrong for this movie. And I

think The Norwegian fiddle in particular sounds too piercing. I think it's a theme that works best in brass.

I believe that the Lorien theme was used in the movie (not %100 sure where it appeared, though).

And I'm sure that Into The West theme appeared at least twice, in the scene where Gandalf and Pippin are talking before the inner door is about to be breached, and at the end, in the scene when they go on the boat.

BTW- I've been thinking. After seeing the movie, all 3 times, I had a theme stuck in my head. But it wasn't from LoTR- it was Badelt's theme to the Time Machine. And I realized- that is a very good theme, and for my money- would fit perfectly in the LoTR world. IMO it's better than the fellowship, and more noble.

Disclaimer: I generaly don't like Badelt, but I think many will agree with me that it's a good theme. Too bad it's to one of the worst movies ever made.

[Morlock 11]

Well, which is your favorite?

(@Neil- I hope this is ok, as there is no straight forward poll about his)

[A24 4,331]

Ask me again when the DVD comes out.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I'm going to see RotK on a big-ass screen today for the second time, so I might like it better than the first time (which was on a not-so-big screen), but as it stands, I still prefer FotR. Ask me again tonight, though.

- Marc, who won't vote until he's back from his 2nd viewing.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Themes that I missed were Isengard (March of the Ents, Morlock) which made a delayed appearance when the eagles fought the Nazgul, and I think this scene should have used an action slant on that theme.

Then listen again when you see the film a second time It's played by full brass during the departure of the Rohirrim from Edoras to Dunharrow, and a slower, dramatic version, also with full brass, during Théoden's speech before the charge on the Pelennor.

@Steef: Is there any evidence of any elf (other than Legolas= coming out of Helm's Deep alive?

@Morlock: The Into the West theme was used too when FRodo and Sam crawl up Mount Doom, and talk, and Sam finally lifts Frodo up and carries him up the mountain.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

I voted for RotK in the end, but I'm not completely sure. Honestly, it's a tie between FotR and RotK.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

I still think the original is the best.

[Morlock 11]

I think RoTK is the best. Or, at least the album is the best. Although The Breaking of the Fellowship is by far the best piece of music to come out of the movies.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

@Steef: Is there any evidence of any elf (other than Legolas= coming out of Helm's Deep alive?

Not to my knowledge, but even that fact is weird, since you would expect atleast some of these highly trained, highly disiplined Elves survive. (a lot of these Rohan farmers survived)

For me ROTK seems to be the best put together CD (FOTR spends to much time on the Nazgul Theme in favor of more varied material)

The Breaking Of The Fellowship is the single best cue out of the trilogy, The Bridge Of Khazad Dum the best action cue.

Stefancos- wondering about this @

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

I believe that the Lorien theme was used in the movie (not %100 sure where it appeared, though).

I think it's heard during both Frodo's visions of Galadriel. Definitely during the second one.

And I'm sure that Into The West theme appeared at least twice, in the scene where Gandalf and Pippin are talking before the inner door is about to be breached, and at the end, in the scene when they go on the boat.

And when Sam lifts up Frodo, as Chris said. That makes three times, which is how often I heard it in the film.

As for best...I won't compare the movie to the other two before the EE is out. And as far as the score goes, I really have no idea. There's plenty of highlights in ROTK at least, and several tracks that would qualify as contenders for best something.

Marian - patiently waiting for the ~12 disc set.

[diskobolus 3]

And I'm sure that Into The West theme appeared at least twice, in the scene where Gandalf and Pippin are talking before the inner door is about to be breached, and at the end, in the scene when they go on the boat.

And when Sam lifts up Frodo, as Chris said. That makes three times, which is how often I heard it in the film.

Confirmed this during my most recent viewing. Sam lifting Frodo up is one of the most emotional frames in the trilogy, imo.

And am I the only one who thinks Journey in the Dark is an incredible cue?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And am I the only one who thinks Journey in the Dark is an incredible cue?

No.

I love the build up to the moment they see the vastness of Dnot to mention the action music following that.

Stefancos- watching the end credits of Superman The Movie roll by.

[King Mark 3,631]

I have The Anvil of Chron(sp) on some Kunzel compilation,but since I think it s nothing special I was never compelled to seek out the rest of the score.

K.M.

[Miz 139]

Then listen again when you see the film a second time It's played by full brass during the departure of the Rohirrim from Edoras to Dunharrow, and a slower, dramatic version, also with full brass, during Théoden's speech before the charge on the Pelennor.

You're right, I vaguely remember hearing it elsewhere, but I also vaguely remember inwardly sighing too. I think it was tracked directly from Isengard Unleashed, and as it has been used as inspiring 'build-up' music before (again, directly tracked) when Aragorn hears Gandalf say 'Look to the east' (and the window gets brighter) during Helm's Deep. No?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I'm a bit confused about that theme, because it seems to be used as a "last stand" motif, but you can also hear it in TTT when Merry and Pippin talk about the Old Forest at the Uruk encampment, just before the argument over the food breaks out.

- Marc

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And in FOTR, in the scene were Gandalf is imprisoned on Orthanc and captures that moth.

Stefancos- confused also.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

It's definitely NOT tracked in RotK, as in TTT there was no brass in this theme. As for its meaning, yes it's somewhat confusing. In the beginning in FotR, it was'nt really a theme, just a one time motive for Gandalf and the Moth. Then in TTT, at first it seems to be a theme for "The Nature strikes back", with the Last March of the Ents. Then it is heard in Helm's Deep as the sun rises and Aragorn remembers Gandalf's words. So the bridge is made from the original "Gandalf" occurance of the theme, but in this new context it is also linked with the last stand of Théoden. And in RotK it is used for the Rohirrim, riding into battle with little hope of winning. It seems to me that this theme is undergoing a slight change of meaning as the story moves along, but this doesn't disturb me much, as it's just gorgeous to hear in its full (doomed) glory.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It seems to me that this theme is undergoing a slight change of meaning as the story moves along, but this doesn't disturb me much, as it's just gorgeous to hear in its full (doomed) glory.

Jawohl.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Orc Theme did not appear anywere in ROTK did it?

At first this puzzled me, but i think in FOTR and TTT this theme is mostly used for the Orcs of Saruman. (as far as i can remember there is only a very small section of that percussion rhythm playing just before The Bridge Of Khazad Dum sets in).

Any thoughts on that?

Stefancos- who kinda missed the Ringwraith Theme in ROTK.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

The theme you're all talking about was confirmed by Shore himself to be the Nature theme. And in FOTR and TTT, it fits that purpose very well. I am confused about its use in ROTK though, and if it weren't for Shore's confirmation, I'd go back to my original idea that it could be the eucatastrophy theme.

Stefan: If you're talking about the 5/4 rhythm, it appears several times in ROTK, e.g. in Minas Morgul, and on the troll's battle drums at the Pelennor. I don't remember there ever being a special Orc theme though, especially not one for Saruman's orcs, which don't feature a lot in the films anyway.

Marian - thinking Stefan might confuse Orcs with Uruks?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Stefan: If you're talking about the 5/4 rhythm' date=' it appears several times in ROTK, e.g. in [i']Minas Morgul,

Then OBVIOUSLY I do not mean that.

and on the troll's battle drums at the Pelennor. I don't remember there ever being a special Orc theme though, especially not one for Saruman's orcs, which don't feature a lot in the films anyway.

Saruman's Orcs ARE the Uruks, and it is THEIR theme i'm referring to.

Stefancos-

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

The theme you're all talking about was confirmed by Shore himself to be the Nature theme. And in FOTR and TTT, it fits that purpose very well. I am confused about its use in ROTK though, and if it weren't for Shore's confirmation, I'd go back to my original idea that it could be the eucatastrophy theme.

I think this is just one of those occasions where the director fell in love with the music. It sounds like it's tracked when Gimli runs up to Helm Hammerhand's Horn at Helm's Deep, and I think PJ might have requested it be used in RotK as well.

- Marc

David Arnold - The Darkest Day from Independence Day (OST)

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Then OBVIOUSLY I do not mean that.

Then what do you mean? The Isengard theme? That would have been rather out of place in ROTK.

Saruman's Orcs ARE the Uruks, and it is THEIR theme i'm referring to.

Uruks aren't Orcs...or would you call Orcs Elves? And Sauron's Orcs aren't Uruks.

Marian -

Arena Concerto (Ennio Morricone, DVD)

[QMM 4]

Is the full choral version of the Fellowship theme on the Soundtrack?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No

Stefancos-

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Then OBVIOUSLY I do not mean that.

Then what do you mean? The Isengard theme? That would have been rather out of place in ROTK.

Saruman's Orcs ARE the Uruks, and it is THEIR theme i'm referring to.

Uruks aren't Orcs...or would you call Orcs Elves? And Sauron's Orcs aren't Uruks.

Marian -

Arena Concerto (Ennio Morricone, DVD)

Oh, go take a swim in der blauen Donau.

Stefancos-

[Rogue_Leader 2]

BTW wasn't Aragorn if my memory serves me correctly supposed to friggin die in ROTK??

I actually dont have a problem with them changing that fact. Wondering why they did it though.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ummm...no dude.

The appendixes of LOTR tells us that Aragorn (now King Ellesar) lives a very long life, longer then any Mortal man in that age.

Stefancos- who knows his LOTR facts.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

You mean the original was titled "The Return of the Dead King"?

Marian -

[QMM 4]

Just saw ROTK

Amazing, i wont say any more except that I'm damn sad that there wont be any more.

Also I got the soundtrack yesterday, hence my asking if the full choral version of the fellowship theme is on it. But I watched the DVD later that came with it and watched the chorus sing it which is practically the best in itself. Along with the montage which was way longer than I expected but it was great seeing how Howard worked.

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

This soundtrack seems like the Keneth Branaugh's Hamlet of the soundtracks.. plenty of luminaries wasted

The score is indeed luckluster, average to say the least. A missed opportunity.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The score is indeed luckluster, average to say the least. A missed opportunity.

Well, we will just respect your opinion, OK.

Stefancos-

[Morlock 11]

I think it's a fantastic score, and more consistant that the other two. It's currently my favorite of the 3. 'The White Tree' is probably my second favorite cue from the scores (after The Breaking of the Fellowship). Once he gets into it, I love how it begins aptly with the strings to signify, I think perfectly the fire spreading on the beacon, and how he holds the momentum with the strings during those amazing shots, culminating in the Gondor theme. It's one of the rare times where I have admiration for the composer in the actual construct of the music, as well as the quality. I also love the small melody in 'Ash and Smoke', to accompany Denethor's madness.

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

Ash and Smoke... I thought at first it was the Klingon theme by Goldsmith

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

This soundtrack seems like the Keneth Branaugh's Hamlet of the soundtracks.. plenty of luminaries wasted  

Are you talking about the Branagh movie or the Doyle score? In both cases I disagree, as I like both a lot.

Marian - still waiting for a DVD release...

ROTK

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

No, I mean because Hamlet had Dreyfus, Denzel... I mean... everyone was A-list star.

In this score Shore brings together some of the greatest talent of music of today for this score, James Galway and Renee Fleming.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Your point being?

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

Increase posts... QMM is uncomfortably closing in

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

No, I mean because Hamlet had Dreyfus, Denzel... I mean... everyone was A-list star.

There were many A-list stars in Branagh's Hamlet, but not Richard Dreyfuss and Denzel Washington. Dreyfuss was in Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead and Washington was in Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing (which are both very good BTW).

Marian -

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

We both know he won't last, he's just another Harry Potter. (the former MB member, not the fictional character)

Stefancos- Who is pleased to have heard from Renovia though.