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The Matrix Revolutions (SPOILER FULL)


Morlock
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How many stars would you give it?  

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  1. 1.

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ONLY FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE! FULL OF SPOILERS!!!

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Well, Thoughts? Opinions?

It's pretty obvious that most Matrix fans will not like the movie (I know the ones I went with didn't ).

But, me not being a Matrix fan- I really liked it.

A very entertaining move, filled with amazing visuals, great effects, a great villain, a lot of cannon fodder, good music, and a huge bang at the very end.

After being ok in Reloaded, Keanu is back to his usual boring self.

Carrie-Ann Moss was terrible in the movie- all about love. Everybody cheered enthusiasticly when she died.

Hugo Weaving was fantastic, full of what made him great in the first movie. His short scene with the Oracle was great. You could really see him being more vulnurable to everything.

I wish they would have had more of the Merovingian. He was the highlight of Reloaded.

The main battle scene was fantastic. The space felt real, and I liked Mifune.

I also liked the battle between Neo and Smith. Not too drawn out, not too long, fantastic music which fit everything you'd expect from the climactic battle of a massive trilogy. Davis really did a great job on this scene.

To all you Bill & Ted fans- When Smith was saying (I'm paraphrasing):

"This is the end... Now I say something..." The only thing I could think of was "69 Dude!"

Now- your own ideas on how it could have ended better:

I would have to have the scene on the bench in the park go like this:

A close up of The orcale, sitting down, drinking champaigne. Then you back up- and see the architect sitting right next to her, smoking his cigar. You do a 180 and go behind them- and see that they're watching what just took place.

The Architect: "Well Judy, good game. How about another?"

The Oracle: "Sure. Let's just watch the rerun"

Then you see all the highlights of the trilogy -the lines, the names- in like a minute. Lines fade in and out like so: "....follow the white rabbit.... red pill... blue pill... Cypher... Mouse... Tank... Smith... Mr. Anderson... Neo... Trinity.... Morpheus... Merovingian.... Keymaker ...the one... etc.,etc....."

This builds in speed, untill it comes to screeching halt as the end credits start.

Another theory of mine:

I was sure that Smith was going to turn out to be the one, Neo and Morpheus would be that bad guys.

Now, that may sound wierd, but the names they chose indicated it.

The ship is called The Nebuchaddnezzer (wrongly spelled, I'm sure). The city is called Zion.

If I recall correctly, Nebuchaddnezzer was the Babylonian King or General (don't remember which) that conquered the city of Jerusalem, also known as Zion, and took the majority of the Israelites on exile back to Babylon.

Now I may be mixing my history, but Nebuchadnezzer was the enemy of Zion. Which might have implied the ending, just like all Hungarians would have know the ending of The Usual Suspects from the begining.

Oh, and I almost forgot-

WHERE THE HELL DID THE OPENING OF THE END CREDITS COME FROM?

All of a sudden, that huge burst of music! The whole audience gave a collective WOW!

Final thoughts- a big, fun, shallow action movie. Answers absolutely none of the questions of the first movie and utilizes absolutely none of the possibilites brought upon by the architect in the second movie.

Although I expect a lot more negative reviews from those die hard Matrix fans.

P.S. Dark City did it better! It started and finished, was satisfying, actualy had a huge revelation, which it revealed fantasticaly, and had a more meaningful action finale.

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After Matrix - Reload of shit, now go and throw up to Matrix - Revulsions!

Lucas!!!! We forgive you!!!!!!! Well, not really, sorry bud, your crap is still just as stinky!!!!

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I personally thought while Reloaded was not as good as the first it was still a very good film. I also enjoyed this and dont feel it is as bad as everyone is makming it out to be.

I'll admit it could have been and SHOULD have been much better, but overall it was a good final film.

However, I thought the ending was friggin weak.

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well...

Matrix raised a lot of questions and answered quite a few. I think it was a brilliant movie although I'm not a die-hard fan.

My biggest problem with Reloaded was that I couldn't care too much about the characters in it, especially Neo, I mean after fighting 200 agents he could simply just fly away...

The action sequences were far too many, far too LONG and far too BORING. However, the highway scene and the Architect were pretty awsome, the ending was great, though not as cliffhanger as they said it would be.

Revolutions...

As the third part of a trilogy, it was VERY disappointing for me, or, at least, it was not what I expected it to be.

It didn't answer any open questions the last two films raised, and the ending... probably one of the worst I've seen in some time.

However, as a science fiction movie I thought it was much better than Reloaded. If you don't expect a movie with great depth, it works pretty well. The fighting scenes are much better paced than in Reloaded and they look awsome.

Agent Smith was the highlight of the characters, Hugo Weaving was as good as ever. Score was brilliant!

Major disappointments (not counting that horrible ending) : the Oracle scenes, not-so-good acting with Neo and Trinity

Overall, the movie just didn't use so many possibilities the last two gave it for a GREAT ending. I enjoyed it much more than Reloaded, sometimes caught by the visuals, but sometimes laughing how bad certain parts were... ;)

At least it was better than T3 ;)

something I don't understand: just before Trinity dies, they go over the clouds and see the SUNLIGHT shining.

By the way, hello there, I'm new to this board! :wave:

Sirius, waiting for Finding Nemo (Nov 20) and Return Of The King (Jan 8 :) )

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Sirius,

A couple things concerning the movie.

A: and this is simple and won't cause debates so I'll get it out of the way.

They never said the sun was destroyed at all. They said they torched the skies. I.e. Nuclear winter. Which means basically a whole new atmosphere was created in the skies blocking out the sun. The sun still existed...and in my opinion, that scene was very powerful...Trinity was finally seeing what she was fighting for with her own eyes...the real world...the real sun...real light. There's no way a nuclear war on earth would have destroyed the sun...how could it?

B: Why is the fact that there are still unanswered questions so bad? I think most good movies leave some answers up to you. Isn't that what the WHOLE trilogy is about? The emergence from the cave...seeing for yourself...enlightenment? Like the oracle says...you gotta make up your own damn mind ;)

As you can tell...I did like the movie...although it was flawed...I thought that it concluded the series very well. Although I do wish they showed more of morpheus at the end...I mean...this was his DREAM. I think they handled Neo's death very well...the symbolism...astounding.

One last statement...I'm curious why you thought the scenes with the Oracle were bad. If you could fill me in on this...thanks!

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They never said the sun was destroyed at all. They said they torched the skies. I.e. Nuclear winter.

banghead

Yeah I guess you're absolutely right about that one! beerchug

To tell you the truth the last time I saw Matrix in full length was about a year ago. I got a little too carried away with that Sun thing (also in hungarian translation it could mean what I said but that wouldn't make too much sense at all, would it? Star Destroyers - oops, wrong trilogy! ;) )

I still didn't like the ending with that computer face thing but well this is only my opinion. :)

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I do wish they showed more of morpheus at the end...I mean...this was his DREAM.

Agreed

What do you exactly mean by his dream?

I'm curious why you thought the scenes with the Oracle were bad

I was thinking specifically of the last scene with her, although her little speaches in Reloaded and Revolutions were overall a little too forced and not nearly as impressive as in the first movie, IMO

most good movies leave some answers up to you.

Couldn't agree more, but they also leave you enough clues to work out your own version properly.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought Revolutions had far too many loose ends.

Why could Neo do the things he could do in the 'real world' (it wasn't the matrix-in-matrix hint the Architect gave us, was it?). And how about Smith (although he did everything VERY impressively, no doubt about that). And what was Neo's triumph over Smith and death precisely about?

Could you tell me Your ideas?

Sirius, who should watch a movie (trilogy) more than once and more carefully before he writes a full review next time, and hopes he didn't make a complete fool out of himself

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SPOILERS

Here are my thoughts on the Neo vs. Smith thing. In my opinion, Smith's purpose, since he was no longer an agent, was to kill Neo because he took his purpose away but yet he still existed. But maybe he didn't quite realize that. Smith, I mean. But Neo did. That's why Neo was so willing to let Smith win, he sacrificed himself because he knew Smith would be destroyed once Neo is killed. The Oracle reminded him of that with that line she made Smith say, which is why Smith was so freaked out. Kinda like he was possessing the Oracle but the Oracle broke through for a moment to tell Neo, "Here's where you end this bastard." I loved it. Very poignant. Neo knew he was going to have to die but he died saving EVERYONE.

But what the hell was the deal with the little girl at the end? How did she create the sunrise? Who is she now? And how is the Oracle Smith's mother? And how the HELL are they going to give Neo powers outside of the Matrix but not explain it?

I was surprised Trinity died, and Neo, too, I thought they'd live to be honest, kind of a bummer of an ending but it can't always be happy. The more I think about it, the better the movie is. I mean, I LOVED the movie last night but I was a little disenchanted with the ending, but not to the point of not liking the movie. The Smith vs. Neo fight could potentially be THE coolest thing I have ever seen. The machines vs. machines battle was intense as all hell an very well done. The score was great, too.

I loved the flick. I'd give it a 3.5/4.

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Let me run it down one more time ......

A) The Nee Oracle sucked

B) I hate that fact that they answered NOTHING with this film!

C) The movie was over the top campy in some places

D) The Battle Sequence was the best part of the film

E) The ending sucked donkey balls ...... THIS CANNOT BE STRESSED ENOUGH!!!

F) I don't think this will be the last Matrix film. There will be more.

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I was actualy pleasently surprised by how much I liked the score. I was really dissapointed with the first score, which should have been either more ground braking or simply better.

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I rather liked it. I think most folks were let down because this third film didn't bring up anything new to think about. There was no new philosophy. This movie was just: "We've presented you the world and all the problems in the last two films, now it's time to get down to business and resolve it!"

If you think about it, however, this is a common formula for trilogies: #1 instroduces you to the world and highlights a hero. #2 throws a wrench in the works and is usually considered a tragedy. #3 goes "balls to the wall" and is usually pure action. Look at the Star Wars films, for example. I mean, it's not like Return of the Jedi brought up anything new.

Well, that's my take on it anyway.

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I really like this score. I really like this movie. The reason I feel like this is because it's groundbreaking. I mean with the trilogy, it's created some many new ideas and concepts, and even fused a few of them.

*This is the same way with the score. Davis's rolling brass motif is a fresh idea in a world of commonly simplfied scores. His music only gets better as each movie was made, and it is seriously evident in all the movies. I must admit, there has been a lack of creativity in the film score department as of late. There are great scores, but rarely are there brilliant scores. I like the fact that Davis took a creative risk in using as many techniques as he did and succeeded in doing so. I mean there's elements of minimalism, serialism, postmodernism, and counterpoint, just to name a few. His Neodammerung composition is very Wagnerian, and is essentially epic in nature. If Davis can continue to create music such as this, then I can see him as highly regarded as Williams, or Goldsmith. He is a very capable composer, and I can't wait till hear his next score.

*The movie was great, and had the best action sequences I've ever seen in a movie. After watching the Animatrix and beating the game, then I pretty much know everything about the Matrix. I do think there will be a sequel in a few years, only because it ended so openly, but maybe not. I think a lot of people were confused about how Neo was able to use his powers in the real world, but I began to understand why. The thing that really suprised me was that Trinity died. I didn't see that coming at all.

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Rogue_Leader wrote:

A) The Nee Oracle sucked

I think your saying the New Oracle, but I think the lady that played her died, so they had to replace her. This is also the case in with Aaliyah, because before she had died, I heard that she was supposed to play the part of Niobe. It's rather sad that she died, but I guess Jada didn't do a bad job.

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Gloria Foster used to play the Oracle, but she passed away midway through filming. She had shot pretty much all her scenes for Reloaded but practically none for Revolutions. As I understand it, the reason for her transformation is fully explained in Enter The Matrix, and it was only briefly touched upon in the film.

Aaliyah was going to play Zee (Link's wife), but she died in a plane crash. She was replaced by Nona Gaye, who was second choice for the part (she did have to do a new audition, though). Nona Gaye is daughter of Marvin Gaye.

- Marc, hoping he spelled everything right.

;) Rob D - Klubbed To Death (Kurayamino Mix)

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I think a lot of people were confused about how Neo was able to use his powers in the real world, but I began to understand why.

What's your take on this? The Oracle said the power of the One extends out of the Matrix, but that's such a cheap, blanket comment. I think it has to do with either Neo destroying Smith in the first flick, or talking to the Architect at the end of Reloaded.

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If it is not truly explained then it's probably cause the Wachowski could not think of a reasonable answer themselves.

If so then it's rather pointless for us to try and explain it.

Stefancos- who saw Revolutions, is glad he saw Revolutions and will now go and make diner.

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A collection of random notes and thought after seing Revolutions.

-A surprising lack of Bullit time martial arts fights in this film.

Reloaded made the mistake of giving us very long fightscenes between characters who are more or less impossible to kill, thereby removing any suspense.

The Bullit Time fighting in Revolutions is short and sweet, even the final fight between Smith and Neo is not to long. (and let's face it, isn't fighting 1 Smith a lot more interesting then fighting 500?)

-Neo's vulnerability.

In Reloaded Neo was as good as indestructable, which took a lot away from his fightscenes.

In Revolutions he spends most of his time outside the Matrix, making him vulnerable...human.

The fight between him and Bane/Smith was pretty good, much better then Neo versus 100 Smith's in Reloaded.

And Blinding Neo was a nice touch.

- Anyone noticed how little the lead characters actually have to do in this film?

What did Morphues do anyway, just tag along with Niobe.

Trinity contribution in this film is mostly looking worried at Neo.

I felt more involved with Zee going to battle and that little Indian girl.

- The most memorable character from this trilogy for me will be Agent Smith, superbly played by Hugo Weaving.

-Ian Bliss as Bane did a great job as the human Agent Smith, i don't know if they used Weaving's voice but even the mannerism looked like those of Agent Smith, very well done.

-Those swarms of Sentinels looks awesome, but maybe a bit too awesome, i did not really believe that those clunky robot walkers recycled from Aliens would be able to stop those sentinels as long as they did.

- In the Machine City, the Sentinels forming a face while speaking to Neo was a bit hokey, reminded me of the Wizard of Oz, or worse, God from Star Trek V.

-Mary Alice is a more then acceptable replacement for Gloria Foster, she and Hugo Weaving have a very good scene together.

-Isn't it typical that in a war fought against superintelligent lifeforms inside a virtual world everything is eventually settled by 2 people having a slugging match?

More notes might follow later

Stefancos

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Maybe it's just me, but I thought Revolutions had far too many loose ends.

Why could Neo do the things he could do in the 'real world' (it wasn't the matrix-in-matrix hint the Architect gave us, was it?).  

Because Neo touched The Source in reloaded so he then had a connection with everything connected to the source (meaning pretty much all the machines). The Matrix is connected to the source as is the machine city which is why the oracle says the power extends beyond the matrix.

And how about Smith (although he did everything VERY impressively, no doubt about that). And what was Neo's triumph over Smith and death precisely about?

It was about sacrificing himself to save everyone, man and machine, and thus creating a peace between the two. Smith, being Neo's opposite, wanted, obviously, the opposite: to destroy everything. the positive and negative cancel each other out and give the machines the oppertunity to delete smith and reassimilate neo's code so the matrix could be reloaded.

The girl at the end, Sati, was a program created out of love of two machines. The problem is that she had no purpose and faced deletion, so her parents got help from the merovigian to save her and let the oracle take care of her. As to why she has control over the sun and who knows what else at the end is still a mystery, but i've heard some more of these questions may be answered in "The Matrix online" game.

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I can't believe it- I agree 100% with everything Stefan said!

I saw it again yesterday, and kept on thinking 'Maybe Weaving is also soing Bane?' because he realy looks and sounds like Weaving, and his face is built in a similar way.

I hated the machines forming a face.

I felt the fight between Neo and Smith, although done very well (with my favorite score piece this year), was extremely anticlimactic after the big fight in Zion. I didn't feel like Neo winning that would solve anything- especialy since Smith has so little screen time up to that point.

And what is the deal with the 'Mazel Tov' that kicks of the end credits?! Why on earth did Davis do that? anybody know?

Did anyone else notice how supremely unoriginal the mvoie was? I mean it stole shots directly from 'Metropolis' and 'Dark City' (but then again- it took a lot from Dark City), and had tons of Chrisitan symbolism, and had a lot of 'The Fisher King' going on.

It had the corniest characters-

Luc, who like the police captain in most cop movies- his only job is to be constantly negative and wrong.

Mifune, the hard ass general who won't give up and seems like the last man standing, and who is also (in one of the absolute worst moves of the movies) alive just long enough for his last words.

There's the lone old guy on the counsel who is the only who believes in Neo.

There's the hot, feminist wife who helps save the day.

There's the captain of the ship, who'se job it is to question Niobe and make comical remarks.

There's the kid, who in the credits appears as 'The Kid', who has faith, screws up in the begining, and them saves the day.

And there are probably many more I can't remember.

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I agree with Stefancos. Where was the bullit time? What's more, why weren't there any agents? Real agents that is. Of course, there was plenty of Smith in the film (Go Hugo!).

- Marc

:devil: U2 - Walk On from All That You Can't Leave Behind

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OK. I almost thought Morlock's last comment was going to touch on what I was going to say. But I think "Revolutions" was extremely similar in plot to "Return of the Jedi," especially in the last half (when the sentinels break through the roof).

Think about it: large battle between outnumbered characters we never really get to know who died spectacularly and the big bad enemy; the roguish captain of the ship (Niobe) and the love interest always by her side (Morpheus); the big final battle between the savior and the main antagonist (Neo and Smith), scored with a splendid choral arrangement (biggest clue of them all!); the enemy's physical destruction by light (Vader with a bright fire, Smith with real light). There are probably more, but they may not be as obvious as the ones mentioned.

That said, I enjoyed "Revolutions" much more than "Reloaded," though not as much as the original. I had expected a reprise of bullet time and some more stuff in the Matrix. I was entertained, but not aroused mentally.

Which brings me to the ending. I understand what happened ...... SPOILER TO FOLLOW

Neo dies but his spirit goes into the machine world and becomes a part of the Matrix. But I think it needed to be said out loud. Plus if what the Architect says is true, what do the unplugged do? And where do they go? And what happens to all the people in Zion? When I saw that the film's running time was only 129 minutes, I knew something would get left out. I had just hoped it wouldn't be a sufficient epilogue.

Jeff -- who thoroughly enjoyed the choral music in the fight and end credits (lots of people stuck around to hear that, and one guy thought that was "cool music. They need to do more of that in movies."

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I agree with Stefancos. Where was the bullit time? What's more, why weren't there any agents? Real agents that is. Of course, there was plenty of Smith in the film (Go Hugo!).

Yeah, in this movie they went with more photo realism than Bullet Time. They really used this idea rather well, especially when Smith had got punched and it was shown in slow motion. That was a fused techinque between a little bit of Bullet time and the photo realism.

The track that was playing at the end is the Super Burly Brawl or Navras track on the Soundtrack. I do like the remixed version that Juno Reactor made, but it's not the same as the original, Neodammerung. It's still pretty tight to listen to though.

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I agree with Stefancos. Where was the bullit time?

You probably disagree with me actually, cause i thought the limited use of this effect was a positive thing. (It's very cool, but they all but used it to death in Reloaded.)

What's more, why weren't there any agents? Real agents that is. Of course, there was plenty of Smith in the film (Go Hugo!).

Most of the film takes place outside The Matrix, ergo, no Agents, simple as that.

Stefancos- who thought Trinity walking in slo-mo to Neo in the subway station was a bit much.

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I can't believe it- I agree 100% with everything Stefan said!  

 I saw it again yesterday, and kept on thinking 'Maybe Weaving is also soing Bane?' because he realy looks and sounds like Weaving, and his face is built in a similar way.

I already knew Bane was Smith, since we seen him being assimilated in Reloaded. (though it's such a brief scene it's hard to forget it)

 I felt the fight between Neo and Smith, although done very well (with my favorite score piece this year), was extremely anticlimactic after the big fight in Zion. I didn't feel like Neo winning that would solve anything- especialy since Smith has so little screen time up to that point.

I'm beginning to think that no climax would have ben able to fully satisfy the audience.

 And what is the deal with the 'Mazel Tov' that kicks of the end credits?! Why on earth did Davis do that? anybody know?

Are you mesjoggene, the choir was singing Sanskit. (though possible in a Jiddish dialect. :devil: )

Did anyone else notice how supremely unoriginal the mvoie was? I mean it stole shots directly from 'Metropolis' and 'Dark City' (but then again- it took a lot from Dark City), and had tons of Chrisitan symbolism, and had a lot of 'The Fisher King' going on.

Yes, but that was also the same with the first film, so it's not that much of a surprise.

It had the corniest characters-

 Luc, who like the police captain in most cop movies- his only job is to be constantly negative and wrong.

 Mifune, the hard ass general who won't give up and seems like the last man standing, and who is also (in one of the absolute worst moves of the movies) alive just long enough for his last words.

 There's the lone old guy on the counsel who is the only who believes in Neo.

 There's the hot, feminist wife who helps save the day.  

 There's the captain of the ship, who'se job it is to question Niobe and make comical remarks.

 There's the kid, who in the credits appears as 'The Kid', who has faith, screws up in the begining, and them saves the day.

  And there are probably many more I can't remember.

You are right, i reconized all those stereotypes as well, however, these characters did more for me then Neo or Trinity in this film, since they atleast had characters, even though they were stereotypical.

Neo and Trinity had NOTHING to do in this film except fight, and have a concerned look on their faces cause they were pondering the fate of Zion.

I think ultimatly the problem is that it does not look like the Wachowski Brothers had the possibility of a sequerl in their minds when writing and making The Matrix.

In Reloaded and Revolutions they seem to struggle about what to do with Neo, since they already made him so Godlike and powerfull in the end of the first film.

Even Lucas was smart enough not to let Luke become a full fledged Jedi in the end of Star Wars.

Stefancos- who thought Trinitry's deathscene ran just a tad to long.

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I agree with Stefancos. Where was the bullit time?

You probably disagree with me actually, cause i thought the limited use of this effect was a positive thing. (It's very cool, but they all but used it to death in Reloaded.)

Oh, right. I misunderstood. I did agree with a lot of what you said, but I wish there were more bullet time in Revolutions. But I do think they overdid the slo-mo in Reloaded

What's more, why weren't there any agents? Real agents that is. Of course, there was plenty of Smith in the film (Go Hugo!).

Most of the film takes place outside The Matrix, ergo, no Agents, simple as that.

True of course, but I still wondered what happened to them.

Stefancos- who thought Trinity walking in slo-mo to Neo in the subway station was a bit much.

Amen to that. That has to be the cheesiest moment I've seen in theatres this year.

- Marc, who thought the "Beautiful" scene was one of the greatest moments in the film nonetheless.

:devil: Frank Sinatra - Come Fly With Me (CMIYC)

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- Marc, who thought the "Beautiful" scene was one of the greatest moments in the film nonetheless.

I agree that moment was very good, it's just a pity that there wasn't more of those kinda moments in the film.

Stefancos- :devil:

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What's more, why weren't there any agents? Real agents that is. Of course, there was plenty of Smith in the film (Go Hugo!).

Because Smith had replicated himself and had taken over the Agents, which is very close to the nature to a computer virus. In Reloaded, you can see him start to do this during the Burly Brawl scene, where the other Agent was all, "You," and Smith replyies, "Yes me" ..... and so on.

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Because Neo touched The Source in reloaded so he then had a connection with everything connected to the source (meaning pretty much all the machines). The Matrix is connected to the source as is the machine city which is why the oracle says the power extends beyond the matrix.

Still doesn't make sense. In the real world' date=' he has no connection with the machines, so how can he control them? Did they put a bluetooth antenna in his head or what?

The Zion battle SUCKED. Compared to that, the battle in AOTC has an almost literaric plot. Watching people in roboters shoot at swarms of squiddies for something like 30 minutes isn't what I expect when going to see the sequel of a complex plot-driven movie.

They did so well in building a complex construct of concepts and questions in [i']Reloaded and the first 20 or 30 minutes of Revolutions - and then they apparently fired the script writers and opted to go for non-stop action instead.

A shame.

The best bits (aside from the first 20/30 minutes): Hugo Weaving (great) and Don Davis (very good, though I'm still not convinced the score is as great as the previous two).

Marian - very disappointed.

:eek: The Matrix Revolutions

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I'd love to see a spinoff- 'The Merovingian'. He was my favorite character in Reloaded, and was second only to Smith in Revolutions.

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After seeing all three films again (and Reloaded and Revolutions for the last time in a while) this weekend:

Smith, being Neo's opposite, wanted, obviously, the opposite: to destroy everything. the positive and negative cancel each other out and give the machines the oppertunity to delete smith and reassimilate neo's code so the matrix could be reloaded.

Thanks for the thoughts!

Yes, this is probably a logical explanation, but to me it just seems... well... forced. I mean positive and negative? Left and right side of an equation? The Wachowski brothers could really have done better than that!

Smith's purpose, since he was no longer an agent, was to kill Neo because he took his purpose away but yet he still existed. But maybe he didn't quite realize that. Smith, I mean. But Neo did. That's why Neo was so willing to let Smith win, he sacrificed himself because he knew Smith would be destroyed once Neo is killed. The Oracle reminded him of that with that line she made Smith say, which is why Smith was so freaked out.

I had a simular theory the second time I saw it (a few things fell into place). Smith's new 'purpose', goal, was to destroy everything. As we reached the last scene with him, he already had power upon everyone in the Matrix, everyone but Neo. As he killed Neo he had to realise he finally had nothing to exist for, ergo, was destroyed.

but this has a few flaws in it:

From the conversation at the Station, we know programs that have no purpose are destroyed. But by who or what? If by the Matrix (controlled by the machines), Smith couldn't have been destroyed for this reason because the machines don't have power over him anymore.

Also, if Smith wanted to get control of not only the matrix, but the real world as well, he would still have a purpose to exist for and not be destroyed.

But I'm confused because the parents of the little girl existed, had no purpose but had a will to live because of their daughter.

he was no longer an agent, was to kill Neo because he took his purpose away but yet he still existed.

Yes, but WHY?

And how the HELL are they going to give Neo powers outside of the Matrix but not explain it?

And why give Smith powers outside the Matrix? Although these two things are connected, I'm sure. Maybe if one has, the other one must have to, to make the equation. :)

It had the corniest characters-  

Luc, who like the police captain in most cop movies- his only job is to be constantly negative and wrong.  

Mifune, the hard ass general who won't give up and seems like the last man standing, and who is also (in one of the absolute worst moves of the movies) alive just long enough for his last words.  

There's the lone old guy on the counsel who is the only who believes in Neo.  

There's the hot, feminist wife who helps save the day.  

There's the captain of the ship, who'se job it is to question Niobe and make comical remarks.  

There's the kid, who in the credits appears as 'The Kid', who has faith, screws up in the begining, and them saves the day.

Exactly. These were the parts what made me laugh for the first time, as well as the second time around.

Neo's vulnerability.  

In Reloaded Neo was as good as indestructable, which took a lot away from his fightscenes.  

In Revolutions he spends most of his time outside the Matrix, making him vulnerable...human.  

The fight between him and Bane/Smith was pretty good, much better then Neo versus 100 Smith's in Reloaded.  

And Blinding Neo was a nice touch

:eek:

These were the best things about this movie. And the score of course.

But when Trinity died for two or three minutes, half the cinema was laughing. :(

The CGI, as I paid more attention to it, was good most of the time, but the human tank things semmed VERY fake (and I liked these machines better in Aliens ;) )

if what the Architect says is true, what do the unplugged do? And where do they go? And what happens to all the people in Zion?

No answer to that. And no answer to the little girl with the sunset.

I still think it's a bad ending.

I think ultimatly the problem is that it does not look like the Wachowski Brothers had the possibility of a sequerl in their minds when writing and making The Matrix.  

In Reloaded and Revolutions they seem to struggle about what to do with Neo, since they already made him so Godlike and powerfull in the end of the first film.

That about sums it all up.

:) Matrix Revolutions

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Seems most people disliked the ending to this one.

I agree with Stefan 100% that Hugo Weaving's Smith was the best character in this deal. He rocked! This guy is a MAJOR talent. I didn't think he LOTR work was that impressive but that character didn't give him much to work with so its not fair to judge him on that performance. Here though he displays a sadistic but sensible evil (that is never TOO over the top thank God!) that just makes his character so memorable.

IMO Smith is BY FAR the best character of the trilogy.

With Morpheus number 2 and I guess the Oracle (the original one not the new one) the 3rd best.

BTW I am aware the original Oracle Gloria Foster died. I just feel they could've found someone better to play the new one.

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I had a simular theory the second time I saw it (a few things fell into place). Smith's new 'purpose', goal, was to destroy everything. As we reached the last scene with him, he already had power upon everyone in the Matrix, everyone but Neo. As he killed Neo he had to realise he finally had nothing to exist for, ergo, was destroyed.

I have a completely different take on that scene. My theory is that the Matrix had no way of countering Smith or infiltrating his code to plant a virus or otherwise destroy him. However when Neo let himself be overwritten by Smith, what Smith didn't know was that Neo was connected into the Matrix from the hub of the machine mind itself. This, in effect, connected Smith directly to the Matrix again, ergo a virus was able to be downloaded into Smith, destroying him.

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That seems likely. Another idea appeared to me, that, like with the Oracle leaving some "Trojan" code in Smith despite having been overwritten, Neo leaves some of his "source code" (the one supposed to reset the matrix) which gets activated and overwrites Smith.

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I think Weaving was all wrong for LoTR. His Elrond is so cold and unfriendly, and he almost seems like Arwen's mean dad.

Also- Never, but NEVER, cast a the same person into two movie franchises, and certainly not when they come out around that same time. That why McKellen would have been terrible for Harry Potter- he'd always be Gandalf to some extent.

And yead- he was the best character in The Matrix (even though he needed more explaining in the second and third)

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Yes, this is probably a logical explanation, but to me it just seems... well... forced. I mean positive and negative? Left and right side of an equation? The Wachowski brothers could really have done better than that!

I liked the equation bit. They could have explained a bit more how it came that Smith became the counter-equation, but generally I like the programming/mathematical ideas behind it.

But I'm confused because the parents of the little girl existed, had no purpose but had a will to live because of their daughter.

They don't say that they don't have a purpose. The mother's purpose is to write programs or something as far as I remember, and I suppose the father had a purpose too.

And why give Smith powers outside the Matrix? Although these two things are connected, I'm sure. Maybe if one has, the other one must have to, to make the equation.  :)

Smith's power in the real world should have been better explained, but I can accept that he obviously has found some way of hacking the brain, i.e. programming his own personality into a human brain. We still don't know how the brain really works, but I find this idea to be basically believable.

But the equation only exists inside the Matrix, it's a part of its programming. An equation inside a program cannot give a person disconnected from that program any power over what happens inside.

Marian - who rather likes Weaving as Elrond. :)

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That seems likely. Another idea appeared to me, that, like with the Oracle leaving some "Trojan" code in Smith despite having been overwritten, Neo leaves some of his "source code" (the one supposed to reset the matrix) which gets activated and overwrites Smith.

My thought after seeing the movie was that since they explain that Smith and Neo are each other's opposites, that they balance their equation. When Neo allows Smith to assimilate him into another Smith, he completely unbalances the equation, and therefore Smith is destroyed. At least thats what seemed to make sense to me.

I read this paper back when Reloaded came out...it discussed all the mythological and philosophical ideas that the movies are based on. I wish I could find it, cause it was really facinating. But I think we can get more out of the movie if we keep those type of things in mind...for instance:

obvious Biblical references..just look at the position Neo is laying in after he dies.

The Merovignian - he represents the Greek god of the underworld, Pluto. Wife's name is Persephony (Goddess of the Underworld), he's wearing a red shirt (suggestive of the devil), and when they get in the elevator to go to his club, they press the "HELP" button, and the P is crossed out, so it says "HEL" or Hell.

just a few thoughts :)

-JCM - who likes the movie more and more after thinking about it...but still doesn't get the point of the little girl.

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My interpretation was a little different: If Neo and Smith are opposite equations, and Smith "absorbs" Neo, the equations are added and you get zero, hence both are destroyed.

Marian - who would care much more about it if the film sucked less. :)

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This rating is confusing, it's usually out of 5 stars!

I rather liked it. I think most folks were let down because this third film didn't bring up anything new to think about. There was no new philosophy. This movie was just: "We've presented you the world and all the problems in the last two films, now it's time to get down to business and resolve it

Ohh yes it did, remember Smith talking about human constructs like freedom?

http://forums.matrixfans.net/showthread.ph...?threadid=18223

This is interesting!

Anyway, what was quite cool about the movie for me was that it was set in Sydney my home town (like the other 2 movies). That's Sydney subway, the botanical gardens in the final scene with the sun and the final fight scene over Sydney at night. :P

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That freeway was constructed for the movie and didn't really exist. And they ripped up aussie streets to put US post boxes and phone booths on them. :P

Morn - Who thinks Americans might be surprised about how similar Australia is generally

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  • 4 months later...

Just saw it for the first time. I read the thread for the first time too. Stefancos' feelings towards the film are exactly the same as mine.

A collection of random notes and thought after seing Revolutions.  

-A surprising lack of Bullit time martial arts fights in this film.  

Reloaded made the mistake of giving us very long fightscenes between characters who are more or less impossible to kill, thereby removing any suspense.  

The Bullit Time fighting in Revolutions is short and sweet, even the final fight between Smith and Neo is not to long. (and let's face it, isn't fighting 1 Smith a lot more interesting then fighting 500?)  

-Neo's vulnerability.  

In Reloaded Neo was as good as indestructable, which took a lot away from his fightscenes.  

In Revolutions he spends most of his time outside the Matrix, making him vulnerable...human.  

The fight between him and Bane/Smith was pretty good, much better then Neo versus 100 Smith's in Reloaded.  

And Blinding Neo was a nice touch.  

- Anyone noticed how little the lead characters actually have to do in this film?  

What did Morphues do anyway, just tag along with Niobe.  

Trinity contribution in this film is mostly looking worried at Neo.  

I felt more involved with Zee going to battle and that little Indian girl.  

- The most memorable character from this trilogy for me will be Agent Smith, superbly played by Hugo Weaving.  

-Ian Bliss as Bane did a great job as the human Agent Smith, i don't know if they used Weaving's voice but even the mannerism looked like those of Agent Smith, very well done.  

-Those swarms of Sentinels looks awesome, but maybe a bit too awesome, i did not really believe that those clunky robot walkers recycled from Aliens would be able to stop those sentinels as long as they did.  

- In the Machine City, the Sentinels forming a face while speaking to Neo was a bit hokey, reminded me of the Wizard of Oz, or worse, God from Star Trek V.  

-Mary Alice is a more then acceptable replacement for Gloria Foster, she and Hugo Weaving have a very good scene together.  

-Isn't it typical that in a war fought against superintelligent lifeforms inside a virtual world everything is eventually settled by 2 people having a slugging match?  

More notes might follow later  

Stefancos

Brilliant, just brilliant.

----------------

Alex Cremers

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