The Matrix Revolutions (SPOILER FULL)

[Audax 0]

For me Revolutions is one of the best movies of all time. I just love all the metaphores and mythology hidden in it. I mean Trinity goes through (club) hell and even fights the devil (Merv.) just for love. And neo the blind messiah, wow. Really everything in this movie just sends chills down my spine. 8O

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, the subtext in interesting, but it's handled rather poorly.

The film really kinda takes a dive after Trinitry simply pulls a gun out to the Mergovinian.

Is that really the way high concept sci-fi resolves plot points these days?

[A24 4,326]

By the way, is it really over? Is this the end? Any news/gossip on that?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

For me personally, The Matrix saga is definatly over

[Audax 0]

"The film really kinda takes a dive after Trinitry simply pulls a gun out to the Mergovinian."

But what should she've done according to you? Should she make the deal with Merv. for the eyes of the oracle? Should she make the deal with the devil??? I think it shows the strength of her will to resist the devil, to say no and then force her will upon him.

Audax - who has seen Revolutions only once too long ago, and now might be idolizing it while he shouldn't :?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But what should she've done according to you? Should she make the deal with Merv. for the eyes of the oracle?

I'm saying the writers should have tried to find a more interesting way for them to get the information the need from the Merovingian, other then having someone pull a gun at him (geez if she had pulled a gun on him in Reloaded then it might have saved a lot of trouble :roll: )

The whole Eyes of the Oracle sounded interesting, but it's not ment to go anywere. (not that it will stop Matrix fanboys to contemplate the meaning of it for years to come)

Should she make the deal with the devil??? I think it shows the strength of her will to resist the devil, to say no and then force her will upon him.

No, it's lazy writing

Audax - who has seen Revolutions only once too long ago, and now might be idolizing it while he shouldn't  :?

I've seen it once also, and that is enough.

8O Han Solo And The Princess (Charles Gerhard conducting the NPO)

[Miz 139]

For me Revolutions is one of the best movies of all time.

I wish I could enjoy things so naively. Can anyone recommend some thoroughly deep films for this guy to compare Revolutions with?

To begin with I'd say Koyaanisqatsi, but none spring to mind at the moment.

[QMM 4]

deep as in philosophical deep?

Recollections from Catch Me if You Can

[Audax 0]

For me Revolutions is one of the best movies of all time.

I wish I could enjoy things so naively. Can anyone recommend some thoroughly deep films for this guy to compare Revolutions with?

To begin with I'd say Koyaanisqatsi, but none spring to mind at the moment.

OK, naive right, well bring on more good movies then! I'll watch them (if have the time, but then again if I dont ever make time, how can I ever have time ) and if you're right I'll happily admit I was wrong.

Audax - who hates to be called a fanboy

[hitman20 0]

I've found a more philosophical point of view to the Matrix that may clear up some confusion about the films:

***First, let's review some of the obvious Christian symbols that appear in the film. The main character, played by Keanu Reeves, is named Thomas Anderson: the first name Thomas may be an allusion to the Doubting Thomas of the gospels, while etymologically Anderson means "son of man," a title used by Jesus in reference to himself.

Another character, Choi, says to him "Hallelujah. You're my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ." A plate in Morpheus's ship Nebuchadnezzar bears the inscription "Mark III No. 11," a probable allusion to the Bible: Mark 3:11 reads, "Whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and shouted, 'You are the Son of God!'"

Anderson's hacker alias Neo is an anagram for the One, a title which is used in the film to refer to Keanu Reeves' character. He is The One who is prophesied to liberate humanity from the chains that imprison them in their computer-generated illusion. First, however, he has to die - and he is killed in room 303. But, after 72 seconds (analogous to 3 days), Neo rises again. Soon thereafter, he also ascends up into the heavens. The first movie itself happened to be released on Easter weekend, 1999.

According to the Architect in The Matrix Reloaded, Neo isn't actually the first One; instead, he is really the sixth One. Numbers are not meaningless in these films and perhaps the first five are meant to symbolize the Five Books of Moses of the Old Testament. Neo, representing the New Testament and New Covenant of Christianity, is described by the Architect as differing from the first five because of his ability to love - and the concept of agape, or brotherly love, is key in Christian theology. It seems, then, that Neo's role as a sci-fi iteration of the Christian Messiah is rather secure.

Or is it? Certainly some Christian authors argue so, but the parallels here are not nearly so strong as they might appear at first glance. For Christians, the Messiah is a sinless unification of both divinity and humanity who brings salvation to humans from their state of sin through his own freely chosen, sacrificial death; none of these attributes describe Keanu Reeve's Neo, even in a metaphorical sense.

Neo is not even vaguely sinless. Neo kills people left and right and isn't averse to a bit of extramarital sex. We are offered no reasons to think that Neo is a union of the divine and the human; although he develops powers beyond what other humans have, there is nothing mystical about him. His powers derive from an ability to manipulate the programming of the Matrix, and he remains very much human.

Neo is not here to save anyone from sin, and his purpose has nothing to do with bridging the gap between us and God (not that God is even mentioned in the Matrix films). Instead, Neo arrives to release us from ignorance and illusion. Certainly a release from illusion is consistent with Christianity, but it does not constitute a metaphor for Christian salvation. Moreover, the idea that our reality is illusory is inconsistent with Christian beliefs in an omnipotent and truthful God.

Nor does Neo save humanity through a sacrificial death. Although he dies, it is by accident rather than by free choice, and his means of salvation involves a great deal of violence - including the deaths of many innocent people. Neo loves, but he loves Trinity; he hasn't exhibited an overarching love for humanity as a whole, and certainly not for the human minds he kills time and time again.

Christian references go far beyond the character of Neo, of course. The last human city is Zion, a reference to Jerusalem - a city holy to Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Neo falls in love with Trinity, a reference to the Trinity of Christianity. Neo is betrayed by Cypher, someone who prefers hedonistic illusions where he has power over the drab reality he was awakened to.

Even these, however, are not exclusively Christian themes or allegories. Some may see them as such because of their obvious relations to Christian stories, but that would a rather narrow reading; it would be more accurate to say that Christianity makes use of many stories and ideas which have been part of human culture for millennia. These ideas are a part of our human heritage, cultural as well as philosophical, and the Matrix taps into this heritage in culturally and religiously specific ways, but we should not let that distract us from the core messages which reach well beyond any one religion, including Christianity.

In short, The Matrix and its sequels make use of Christianity, but they are not Christian films. Perhaps they are poor reflections of Christian doctrine, rendering Christianity in a superficial manner that is amenable to American pop culture but which requires sacrificing depth for the sake of people accustomed to sound bites over serious theological contemplation. Or, perhaps, they aren't meant to be Christian films in the first place; instead, they may be meant to be about important issues which are also explored within Christianity.

[hitman20 0]

Here's another approach to explaining the Matrix:

Perhaps the idea that The Matrix is basically a Christian film stretches things a bit too far, but there are arguments that The Matrix has a stronger basis in Gnosticism and Gnostic Christianity. Gnosticism shares many basic ideas with orthodox Christianity, but there are also important differences between the two that make Gnosticism closer to the principles expressed in these films.

In his conversation with Neo near the end of The Matrix Reloaded, the Architect explains that he is responsible for the creation of the Matrix - does that make him God? Probably not: his character seems closer to that played by the force of evil in Gnosticism. According to gnostic tradition, the material world was actually created by a demiurge (commonly identified with the God of the Old Testament), not the True God of Good who is utterly transcendent and exists far beyond the created world as we understand it. The demiurge in turn leads a cast of Archons, or petty rulers who are the craftsmen of our physical world.

Escape from this world of evil is only accomplished by those who obtain the inner knowledge about the true nature of this reality and the manner in which humans are imprisoned in it and controlled by sinister forces. Those who seek to become awakened and enlightened are aided in their quest by Jesus Christ, sent by God to the world as a bearer of divine enlightenment in order to relieve humanity of its ignorance and lead them to truth and goodness. The savior also comes to save Sophia, the embodiment of wisdom and a lesser being who emanated from God but then later drifted away from him.

The parallels here between Gnosticism and the Matrix films are obvious, with Keanu Reeve's character Neo playing the role of the bearer of enlightenment who is sent to liberate humanity from the place in which the sinister machines have them imprisoned. We also learn from the Oracle, a program within the Matrix and an embodiment of wisdom about the Matrix, that Neo has once again made a "believer" out of her. We may find in the third and final film, Matrix Revolutions, that the Architect has close parallels to the gnostic concept of the demiurge.

At the same time, there are also serious differences between Gnosticism and the Matrix films which undermine any attempt to argue that one should be closely matched to the other. For example, in Gnosticism it is the material world that is considered a prison and lacking in "true" reality; we are supposed to escape this and find liberation in the reality of the spirit or mind. In the Matrix, our prison is one in which our minds are trapped, while liberation constitutes fleeing to the supposed material world where machines and humans have been at war - a world which is much more distressing and disturbing than the Matrix.

This "real world" is also one where sensual and even sexual experiences are valued and pursued - quite the opposite of the anti-materialistic and flesh-denying principles of Gnostic doctrine. The only character who expresses anything close to true Gnosticism is, ironically, Agent Smith - the truly disembodied mind who is forced to take on physical form and interact in the simulated physical world within the Matrix. As he says to Morpheus: "I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that IÕve somehow been infected by it." He is desperate to return to a pure state of disembodied existence, just as any true Gnostic would. Yet he is the embodiment of the enemy.

In addition, Gnosticism postulates that the bearer of divine enlightenment is fundamentally divine in nature, denying him the full humanity he is accorded in orthodox Christianity. In the Matrix films, however, Neo certainly appears to be fully human - although he has special powers, they seem to be limited to his ability to control the computer code in the Matrix and are thus technological in nature, not supernatural. All of the "awakened ones" - the enlightened individuals who have become aware of the falsehood of the Matrix - are very much human.

Although there are certainly Gnostic themes running throughout the Matrix movies, it would be mistaken indeed to try and label them Gnostic films. Those who do may only be working from a rather superficial understanding of Gnostic Christianity - not surprising since pop spirituality has appropriated a great deal from Gnosticism that sounds appealing while ignoring that which may be unpleasant. How often do we hear, for example, the ways in which Gnostic writers in the past have excoriated those who fail or even refuse to seek Gnostic enlightenment? How often do we read about the terrible fates that await those who mistakenly worship the demiurge as if it were the True God?

Whatever the reasons for people's misunderstandings, the fact that the Matrix and its sequels are not Gnostic films shouldn't stop us from appreciating the presence of Gnostic themes. The Wachowski brothers have brought together a variety of religious themes and ideas, presumably because they felt that there was something in them to make us think differently about the world around us.

[hitman20 0]

Although the presence of Christian themes is strong in The Matrix, the influence of Buddhism is equally powerful and evident. Indeed, the basic philosophical premises that drive major plot points would be nearly incomprehensible without a little background understanding of Buddhism and Buddhist doctrines. Does this force the conclusion that The Matrix and The Matrix Reloaded are Buddhist movies?

The most obvious and fundamental Buddhist theme can be found in the basic principle that, in the world of the Matrix films, what most people think of as "reality" is actually a computer-generated simulation. This appears to align closely with the Buddhist doctrine that the world was we know it is maya, illusion, which we must break out of in order to achieve enlightenment. Indeed, according to Buddhism the biggest problem that faces humanity is our inability to see through this illusion.

There are also numerous smaller references to Buddhism throughout the films. In The Matrix, Keanu Reeve's character Neo is aided in his education about the nature of the Matrix by a young boy dressed in the garb of a Buddhist monk. He explains to Neo that he must realize that "there is no spoon," and hence our ability to change the world around us is actually a matter of our ability to change our own minds.

Another common theme that appears in the Matrix films is that of mirrors and reflections. If you watch closely, you will see reflections constantly - often in the ubiquitous sunglasses that the heroes wear. Mirrors are also an important metaphor in Buddhist teachings, illustrating the idea that the world we see around us is actually a reflection of what is in us. Thus, in order to understand that the reality we perceive is but an illusion it is necessary for us to empty our own minds first.

Such observations would seem to make it relatively easy to characterize The Matrix as a Buddhist film; however, things aren't nearly so simple as they appear. For one thing, it isn't a universal belief among Buddhists that our world is only an illusion. Many Mahayana Buddhists argue that the world really exists, but our understanding of the world is illusory - in other words, our perceptions of reality do not entirely match what reality actually is. We are urged not to mistake an image for reality, but that presumes that there is a genuine reality around us in the first place.

Perhaps more significant is the fact that so much that occurs in the Matrix films directly contradicts basic Buddhist principles. Buddhist ethics certainly do not allow for the language and extreme violence which occur in these movies. We may not see a lot of blood, but the plots make it clear that any humans not "with" the liberated heroes are to be counted as enemies.

A consequence of this is that people are killed regularly. The violence directed against people is even raised up as something laudable. It certainly isn't commensurate for someone fulfilling the role of bodhisattava, one who has achieved enlightenment and chooses to return to aid others in their quest, to go around killing people.

In addition, the simple identification of the Matrix as the "enemy," along with the Agents and other programs who work on behalf of the Matrix, is a bit contrary to Buddhism. Christianity may allow for a dualism that separates good and evil, but that doesn't really play so much of a role in Buddhism because the real "enemy" is our own ignorance. Indeed, Buddhism would probably require that sentient programs like the Agents be treated with the same compassion and consideration as sentient humans because they, too, need to be liberated from illusion.

Finally, another significant conflict between Buddhism and the Matrix is much the same as one which exists between Gnosticism and the Matrix. According to Buddhism, the goal for those who wish to escape from this world of illusion is to achieve a disembodied, immaterial existence - perhaps one where even our perception of the individual self has been overcome. In the Matrix films, however, the goal is supposed to be to flee a disembodied existence in a computer simulation and return to a very material, very physical existence in the "real" world.

It seems clear, then, that the Martrix movies cannot be described as Buddhist films - but the fact remains that they make extensive use of Buddhist themes and principles. While the Matrix may not be an exact equivalent of maya and Keanu Reeve's character Neo may not be a bodhisattava, the Wachowski brothers did deliberately incorporate aspects of Buddhism into their story because they believe that Buddhism has something to say to us about our world and how we conduct our lives.

[Audax 0]

I found these essays on the net about R&R. They're very interesting and explain everything. They're huge though.

http://wylfing.net/essays/matrix_reloaded.html

http://wylfing.net/essays/matrix_revolutions.html

[Morlock 11]

I feel so sorry for all those poor sods who spent so much time analyzing nothingness.

[Lurker 5]

I feel so sorry for all those poor sods who spent so much time analyzing nothingness.

Like those poor sods discussing music written by some bald 70 year old?

Neil

[Morlock 11]

no, they are discussing music written by some bald 70 year old. The second two Matrix film are nothingness.

[A24 4,326]

The second two Matrix film are nothingness.

Then why did you enjoy Revolutions so much?

[Morlock 11]

Those were my original thoughts, I now loathe the film after seeing it another time. (Again, my initial opinions are not to be trusted!)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I had the same reaction with Attack Of The Clones.

[Morlock 11]

I also had the same thing with AoTC. first time I thought, a flawed film, but good non-the-less. And now.... let's just say I like TPM a lot more now, since I couldn't imagine how bad a Star Wars film could get could it.

[Morn 8]

I think that AOTC is better than TPM at least, it has some fun scenes. That might as well be different movies though..... Glued together poorly, and a bad script.