Classical Favorites

Ray Barnsbury · November 6, 2003

In an effort to get into more classical music, and just in time for Christmas lists, I was wondering what your favorite/recommended classical works are, and if there are any definitive recordings of them. Or if you think that, since I'm just starting out, there are some essentials I need, feel free to suggest those as well.

Thanks!

Ray Barnsbury

Mari · November 6, 2003

Hi Ray,

Here are a few of my favorites:

Beehoven - Symphonies 5, 7, 9

Hovhaness - Symphony No. 2

Hanson - Symphony No. 2

Elgar - Enigma Variations

Holst - The Planets

Rimsky-Korsakov - Scheherazade

Mussorgsky - Pictures at an Exhibition

Faure - Requiem

Copland - Billy The Kid/Appalachian Spring/Rodeo ballets

Tchaikovsky - Swan Lake/Sleeping Beauty/The Nutcracker ballets

Stravinsky - The Firebird/Petrushka/The Rite of Spring ballets

Prokofiev - Romeo and Juliet ballet

My introduction to classical music was through the ballets. That led me to explore other works by the same composers, and the rest is history.

~Mari

Elmo Lewis · November 6, 2003

I'm particularly fond of Rodrigo's "Concerto de Aranjuez", but I'm sure you heard that before. The John Williams (guitarrist) recording is quite interesting.

-Ross, who practically lives in Aranjuez, as college is in there (that's a total of 80-mile bus ride every day).

Marian Schedenig · November 6, 2003

First and foremost: Anything by Anton Bruckner (recommended recordings are by Karajan, Wand, Celibidache and Tintner - Celibidache has the definitive recording of the 7th IMHO)

Other stuff in no particular order:

Holst: The Planets (recommended: Dutoit)
Sibelius: Finlandia (but pretty much everything else as well; there's a great and cheap 7-disc set by Berglund on EMI)
Leonard Bernstein: Symphonies, Candide overture, West Side Story dances (recommended: Bernstein)
Dvorak: Symphonies 7, 8, 9, Slavonic Dances (rec.: Kubelik)
Smetana: Ma Vlast (rec.: Kubelik)
Stravinsky: Sacre du printemps (Rite of Spring; rec.: Rattle)
Mussorgsky: Pictures of an Exhibition, Boris Godunov (opera; rec.: Karajan)
Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis, The Wasps
Orff: Carmina Burana (rec.: Jochum, definitive recording)

#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal · November 6, 2003

The from 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Stefancos-

stewdog1 · November 6, 2003

stewdog1 · November 6, 2003

Why does that not surprise me?

'Sirius' · November 7, 2003

Also:

Rachmaninov: Piano Concertos (No. 1-4)

Mozart: Concerto for Piano and Orchestra no. 23 in A major K.488

Rodrigo: Fantasia para un Gentilhombre (Andres Segovia collection)

Vivaldi: Guitar Concertos, Four Seasons

Bach: Brandenburg Concertos and anything with Jean Pierre Rampal

Brahms: Hungarian Dances

almost anything from Johann Strauss (The Bat Ouverture, Waltzes if you like them)

A few things from Shumann and Wagner but I don't know the titles

:music: The Bat Ouverture (J. Strauss)

ChrisAfonso · November 7, 2003

There are many more I could recommend, and several of those have already been mentioned, but currently I listen almost exclusively to Shostakovich's violin concerto... this is an awesome work.

I can also recommend Respighi's "Pini di Roma", very film score like (or the other way around, as with the Planets :music: )

Mahler - 5th symphony

Ravel - Ma mère l'oye suite

...

Marian Schedenig · November 7, 2003

A few things from Shumann and Wagner but I don't know the titles

The best start for Wagner is probably a compilation of ouvertures or orchestral pieces from the Ring of the Nibelung. As for Schumann, everyone who likes Horner's Willow should enjoy the 3rd symphony.

Speaking of Rodrigo, I'm particularly fond of his Concierto serenata, cool harp stuff. There's a 2 CD set on Philips entitled "Complete Concertos for Guitar and Harp" that has this as well as both works mentioned above, and plenty of other stuff, performed by The Romeros and mostly conducted by Sir Neville Marriner. Seems very good to me.

And regarding Mahler, I'd add the first and second symphony. I think they're more accessible than most of his other stuff, and Mahler isn't easy.

Marian - taking his own advice:

:music: Smetana: Ma Vlast (Boston Symphony Orchestra, Kubelik) - several bits in here sound very film score-like by the way

Marian Schedenig · November 7, 2003

Oh, and how come nobody has mentioned Berlioz' Symphonie fantastique yet? Also very film music-like. Gramophone's recording of choice is Sir Colin Davis on LSO Live, which is very fine and cheap. But if you want a really evil withces' sabbath, I recommend Karajan. Should be cheap as well, and is coupled with two lovely pieces from Berlioz' Faust.

QMM · November 7, 2003

Holst's planets very nice along with Enigma variations

Here's some of mine (some are movies too but still very good)

Holst-Military Suite in Eb

Frank Ticheli-Vesuvius

Poledouris-Hymn to Red October (based off the real Red Army Hymn)

Nimrod

lotsa others

Max

Ray Barnsbury · November 7, 2003

Thanks for the ideas so far. I was also wondering if there are any recommended recordings of Schubert's 8th and 9th symphonies.

Ray Barnsbury

Mari · November 7, 2003

Thanks for the ideas so far. I was also wondering if there are any recommended recordings of Schubert's 8th and 9th symphonies.

I'm very fond of the recording I have with Leonard Bernstein conducting the New York Philharmonic.

~Mari

Marian Schedenig · November 7, 2003

I have 8 with Sinopoli conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra and 9 with the Berlin Philharmonic and Karajan. I like both very much, but I can't compare them to others.

Marian - who also knows Günter Wand's Schubert recordings are said to be excellent.

Melange · November 7, 2003

I was wondering what your favorite/recommended classical

So many recommendations that if i began writing a list then i'd be here all day (as most people would). But if you like the choral thing, with plenty of oomph and spine shuddering power, along with sublime moments of beauty then check out Mozart's Coronation Mass K317. It's one of my favourite Masses ever as it has such a wide range of emotions. The solemn, the glorious and the tragic. The version i recommend is on this Amazon link below. It's a particulary good buy that version because also on the disc is Mozart's Requiem mass and Great Mass in C Minor. The performance of Coronation on it has a superb tempo (as it's often played way too slow on other recordings). And the choir is full and really up in the clouds in terms of divinity.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/det...6513921-6527069

And as mentioned by many others, Wagner's Ring cycle is superb. A great CD of Orchestral sections from the Ring epic (a refreshing change from the usual instrumental sections appearing on other Cd's which were existing interludes). This CD is one continous epic highlight without words, and like experiencing the Lord of the Rings trilogy, full of all the background music of the operas but no fat germans marching around the stage creating havoc. The Cd's title is very original (ahem)..It's called "The Ring without Words". I picked it up for about 20 cents in a charity shop last year.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...265455?v=glance

:music: Credo - From Coronation Mass K317.

QMM · November 7, 2003

Mozart's Dies Irae!

Lurker · November 7, 2003

Ravel's Bolero and Daphnis et Chloe.

Neil

QMM · November 8, 2003

Death Camp-Michael Kamen

Lurker · November 8, 2003

Death Camp-Michael Kamen

And if that wasn't from a film score, it might be considered classical.

Neil

QMM · November 9, 2003

I know it's such an awesome piece!

Marian Schedenig · November 9, 2003

I think someone is miss the point.

Marian -

QMM · November 9, 2003

I think someone is miss the point.
Marian -

Yeah, somebody.................

ocelot · November 9, 2003

Classical people, Classical! Film is not classical!!!!! HONESTLY, what is going on here!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Please replace the handset and try again!

#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal · November 10, 2003

I agree with Weal on this one, film music is NOT classical music.

Confusing the 2 genres is an insult.

Stefancos- who knows in his heart that classical music in outdated, inferiour and ultimatly....boring.

Melange · November 10, 2003

Stefancos- who knows in his heart that classical music in outdated, inferiour and ultimatly....boring.

:devil: Shocked i am...much stunned feeling at this time, have i.

Melange - Who could never find the Vensuberg music from Tannhauser boring.

QMM · November 10, 2003

You call The Planets boring?

How do you survive out here

Marian Schedenig · November 10, 2003

Stefancos- who knows in his heart that classical music in outdated, inferiour and ultimatly....boring.

Outdated:

Compared to modern "classical" composers, most film scores, including the typical Williams blockbuster score, is outdated.

Inferior:

*If* you have to make that comparison, it has to be film music that's inferior, because a certain part of it is dictated by the writers, director, editors etc. The composer has far less freedom and is therefore forced to do things he might do differently if he had the choice. Thus, calling either of the two inferior just supports the classical elitists who consider film music worthless.

Boring:

That's of course your subjective opinion. Still, in my opinion there's far less difference between many film scores (including favourites of yours) and classical music than there is in the same film scores and different film scores. Enjoying film music and simultaneously calling all classical music boring still doesn't make sense to me. Well, I can think of ONE common aspect of nearly all film scores that separates it from classical music: It's shorter, there's less thematic development (see my first point above). But an attention span that short is what I usually believe makes people listen to Britney Spears & Co.

Marian - dodge this. :devil:

Marian Schedenig · November 10, 2003

Marian - dodging double posts.

QMM · November 10, 2003

Dodge dodge dodge

Well said

#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal · November 11, 2003

Why dodge a post when I can simply ignore it?

I respects Marian's opinion, but i find it impossible to agree with his statement that film music and classical music are basically the same thing.

Film music is a much more challenging and trickier genre, since the composer HAS to adjust himself to the subject he is composing for.

Also i'm still not sure what music by classical greats like Mozart, Bach, Beethoven and Wagner use modern instruments or synth like a Jerry Goldsmith or a David Arnold have done very often.

Marian may not be completely wrong, but he sure as hell ain't completely right either.

Stefancos- who sampled many pieces of classical music years ago, and was not that impressed.

nja · November 12, 2003

Also i'm still not sure what music by classical greats like Mozart, Bach, Beethoven and Wagner use modern instruments or synth like a Jerry Goldsmith or a David Arnold have done very often.

Come now- don't tell you are unfamiliar with Mozart's sonata for violin, flute and Roland XP-80 or Mozart?s Symphony #42 in Cb ?the MIDI symphony? (K. 627) one of my favorites.

Stefancos- who sampled many pieces of classical music years ago, and was not that impressed.

Says it all.

Melange · November 12, 2003

But i find it impossible to agree with his statement that film music and classical music are basically the same thing. Film music is a much more challenging and trickier genre, since the composer HAS to adjust himself to the subject he is composing for.

I would agree with that. It's almost like someone hired to make the finishing touches to a painting, rather than begining from nothing which many classical composers had to do. Although both genres use (in most cases) the same instruments, film music is an entirely different genre in the way you've already described. Although, some less talented film composers can just write nice themes and sequences for films that have very little relation to what is being shown on the screen. Parts of Gladiator (Zimmer) spring to mind, when i mean that.

Several whole sequences of music in Gladiator are used again and again in wildly differing scenes and it's clear they have little relation to one another (apart from battle or excitement). I'm sure Zimmer probably wrote whole sections of that score before he even saw the film he was composing for, because it "Sounded good anyway", and then Scott probably cut his film to incorporate Zimmer's music. Great for listening to. But nowhere near the level of skill that the greats such as Goldsmith and Williams have (even though Spielberg seems to give Williams much more freedom at times and prepared to change his film to accomodate Williams music). Some of Zimmers works could probably fit more into the classical genre as they are not exclusively tied to certain scenes, but are simply nice themes or sequences in themselves.

I think with classical though, it really does depend on the composer too mind you. I mean, much of Wagner's work was very similar to the film composing of today, in which he's scoring a story (but admittedly it began from his own head and i think he had a huge amount of freedom compared to a hired film composer of today in how he could make it). His Ring cycle is like one big Star Wars in terms of telling the story. And many other composers have made works like that. The Alpine Symphony, the Pictures at an exhibiton etc. But they've had much more freedom and less restrictions. And as you say, that is the major difference.

But on most occasions, even people like Mozart were at times heavily restricted to abide by certain accepted classical formulas and to create works which the public were certainly going to like and were going to be attracted to, just to keep the money rolling in or for certain upper class occasions. And if they had been less restricted by those fat cats who sponsored them and kept them in work, then there work could of been even more divine than it already is i guess (quite a stunning thought). That's why i love some of Mozart's later works, as it seems he decided to say a huge "Screw you" and start writing his works more freely than before. Which is why we got some really heavily brooding stuff, and then wildly frantic works.

Anyway, i'm yapping away here.

The Jump - Rambo II :music:

ocelot · November 12, 2003

You guys argue it out, I personally think Stefan is out of his mind and tell him that at every occasion i get considering Williams would not be who he is without Classical Music. But anyway, I will not join into this discussion, especially the nonsense about what Bach and co. would have done with Synths. LOL, synths make life alot easier and it's nonsensical writing for them, you just program it in, so really there is no writing involved... really..... it's like babying. So you basically slapped yourself in the face with that comment my good friend, honestly dear, consult me before writing something like that! As for boring, well there are many boring classical pieces as there are film pieces, if you love Horner's ring (not his smelly ring) then you should listen to something equally boring to me like bruckner (sorry Bruckner fans) however if you love Williams then go to Rimsky Korsakovs Scheherazade or Capriccio Espagnol, or go to Ravel, Prokofiev, Walton, Korngold (who was first a classical composer)... as I said, I really don't want to be in this argument and I do love and respect Stefan for his views as mad as they are sometimes :wave: ....

Some of my classical favorites (without mentioning any "boring" symphonies or concertos):

Rimsky Korsakov - Sheherazade, Capriccio Espagnol and The Golden Cock (now now)

Ravel - Daphnis and Chloe suite, La Valse, Alborada del Gracioso, Le Tombeau de Couperin, Pavane pour une Enfante Defante, Valses Nobles et Sentimentales, Mother Goose suite, Bolero, Sheherazade, Minuet Antique, Une Barque sur L'Ocean.

Debussy - La Mere, Preludes a L'apres midi d'un Faun, Images, Jeux, Nocturnes

Stravinsky - Rite of Spring, Firebeird, Petrushka, L'histoire du Soldat

Holst - The Planets

Tchaikovsky - Swan lake suite, The Nutcracker suite, Sleeping Beauty suite, Romeo and Juliet, Capriccio Italien, 1812 Overture

Prokofiev - Cinderella suites , Romeo and Juliet suites, Peter and the Wolf

Rachmaninov - Scherzo, The Rock, Vocalise, The Isle of the Dead, Raphsodie

Richard Strauss - Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegels, Dance of the Seven Veils, Death and Transfiguration, Don Quixote

Rossini - William Tell Overture, An Italian in Algiers

Mendelssohn - A Midsummer Nights Dream, Hebrides Overture

Dukas - Sorceror's Apprentice

Chabrier - Espagna

Elgar - Enigma variations, Pomp and Circumstance marches

Walton - Scapino, Portsmouth Point, Capriccio Burlesco, Crown Imperial March

Bizet - Carmen Suites,

Barber - Adagio for Strings

Puccini - La Boheme highlights, Tosca highlights,

Orff - Carmina Burana

Smetana - Die Moldau

Dvorak - Hugarian Dances

Respighi - The Pines of Rome

Mussorgsky - Pictures at an Exhibition (orch: Ravel)

Sibelius - Finlandia

Wagner - Ride of the Valkuries from Wagner's Ring (no, again, not that ring!!!!!), Prelude and Transfiguration from Tristan and Isolde

Verdi - March from Aida, La Traviata highlights

Now I did not mention Bach, Vivaldi, Handel, Haydn or Mozart because as great as they are I cannot listen to them. I prefer later composers.

There are also many incredible symphonies and concertos by Rachmaninov, Tchaikovsky, Brahms, Beethoven, Shostakovich, Korngold, Prokofiev, Elgar, Dvorak and others but I wanted to put on there things which have names and shich don't sound too accademic and pieces that I think have distinct film music images to them (well, not the opera pieces, those have their own stories anyway).

As for the whole Britney Spears, Beyonce, N'Sync/Justin Timberlake, Janet Jackson, Whitney, Christina, India Arie, Jill Scott, Annie Lennox etc etc etc especially dance remixes by greats like Junior Vasquez, Thunderpuss, Victor Calderone.... I listen to all of them daily. I love them just as much as the classical thing but in a different way. There's great music and entertainment everywhere, why not take a lot of different things in?!

Over and out!

Melange · November 12, 2003

As I said, I really don't want to be in this argument

That's like saying "I did'nt want to do it" after having just dropped a nuclear Bomb on a city. :wave:

As for the whole Britney Spears, Beyonce, N'Sync/Justin Timberlake, Janet Jackson, Whitney, Christina, India Arie, Jill Scott, Annie Lennox etc etc etc

The only artist i respect amongst that lot, is Annie Lennox. Superb writer and singer.

QMM · November 12, 2003

I respect none of those singers.

ocelot · November 12, 2003

You liked that argument thingy... :wave: It was a bit like that, LOL. Anyway, what I really wanted to put up there was a list of things.

As for the Popsters, it's no about respecting them. I enjoy what they do, pure and simple. And India Arie writes her own songs, plays the guitare and has a great voice... What's the difference between her and Annie Lennox? And if I have to choose a favorite........ hhhhmmmmm, Janet hands down.

Now translate what some of you are saying about these singers to what Classical listeners say about Film music. hhhhmmmmm..... Interesting isn't it.

Marian Schedenig · November 13, 2003

Gimme the Rolling Stones instead.

Marian - :wave:

ocelot · November 13, 2003

See, they do nothing for me.... The Beatles, The Stones, The Rolling Who... None of them did anything for me, fabulous as they were in their field, never hit me the right way.. More of a Pop and Dance guy myself. Oh Mairan, I have to say thank you to you. So Thank you..... Double Double Toil and Trouble.....

QMM · November 13, 2003

Blues Brothers

Marian Schedenig · November 13, 2003

So Thank you..... Double Double Toil and Trouble.....

But don't think for a second that this will make me forget your finding Bruckner boring!

Marian -

:wave: Death and Transfiguration (Strauss) - how could I forget to mention that above, it's one of Strauss' best (and one of the things that found its way into Willow, though possibly Superman as well)

Morn · November 14, 2003

The from 2001: A Space Odyssey.

The rejected score? I dunno of any other 2001 music.

Classical people, Classical! Film is not classical!!!!! HONESTLY, what is going on here!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Please replace the handset and try again!

If film music isn't classical (well some) neither should opera or ballet be classical.

But i find it impossible to agree with his statement that film music and classical music are basically the same thing. Film music is a much more challenging and trickier genre, since the composer HAS to adjust himself to the subject he is composing for.

That's not true, Williams and other composers like Corigliano say that film music is easier to write because you don't have to worry about tempo, dynamics and other aspects. That does not mean that it's inferior because ease of writing is not a measurement of quality by any means, achievement is.

Now translate what some of you are saying about these singers to what Classical listeners say about Film music. hhhhmmmmm..... Interesting isn't it.

But they don't understand that much film music can sit well next to much classical music while being judged on same standards

But anyway, I will not join into this discussion, especially the nonsense about what Bach and co. would have done with Synths

Synth is just an instrument, you're so conservative, Mozart experimented with new instruments, he would definately try synths and other electronic methods if he was alive today.

, synths make life alot easier and it's nonsensical writing for them, you just program it in, so really there is no writing involved... really..... it's like babying.

Programming something in requires you to write something first. I can't believe you have this attitude, what just because synth can play anything easily and because you don't need a pen to write for it it's babying? Yeah right. You're just scared of anything new.

#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal · November 15, 2003

But they don't understand that much film music can sit well next to much classical music while being judged on same standards

Indeed, it is like comparing apples with laptops, thanks for proving my point, Nick.

Stefancos-

Morn · November 15, 2003

:roll: Maybe it's apples and oranges to compare it to symphonies. But it would compare well with ballet and opera.

Lurker · November 15, 2003

Indeed, it is like comparing apples with laptops, thanks for proving my point, Nick.

Apple makes laptops.

Neil

nja · November 15, 2003

I agree with Weal on this one, film music is NOT classical music.
Confusing the 2 genres is an insult.

Term confusion?? ?Classical? being one of those fun words that can mean about twenty different things.

Steef could correct me if I?m wrong here- but it almost sounds like a reference to ?classical? in the sense of concert works as opposed to film scores (like the different sections of Barnes and Noble etc.)

In reference to the style of film scores however- I have often heard John Williams? scores referred to as classical film scores while scores by Vangelis et al are not usually placed in that category.

Of course there is ?classical? in the more slang sense meaning anything old and stodgy. I would point that out that as in Wael?s excellent list, much classical music is incredibly interesting just as much if not more so than any film score.

I think I would have to disagree with Wael in drawing a hard and fast distinction between film and concert works- esp. these days. I think there are already a number of examples of film score material making it?s way into concert repertoire (and vice versa)- Alexander Nevsky- JW concert suites etc. that really blur the line. In the future, there may not be quite so fine a distinction drawn.

nja · November 15, 2003

Now I did not mention Bach, Vivaldi, Handel, Haydn or Mozart because as great as they are I cannot listen to them. I prefer later composers.

I would assume that you had to do extensive study on all these guys esp. at Trinity . . . so you?re speaking primarily of your own personal listening prefs?

Would it have anything to do with Romantic, 20th century works having more relevence to film scoring than Classical-Baroque or just personal reasons.

Do you ever take a listen to Creation or Bach?s Saint Matthew for example.

nja- not criticizing anyone?s tastes just curious . . .

QMM · November 18, 2003

Bach's Fugue in G Minor

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