Last Samurai score- first impressions

[David Coscina 3]

Hmmm. Seeing that I am not a huge Zimmer fan, his latest epic was always going to be a hard sell. Don't get me wrong, I think Zimmer has proven to be a very good film composer. Just look at The Thin Red Line. I still enjoy listening to that score. Something in that film enabled Zimmer to capture a meditative, metaphoric mood in the music. There is a stillness, a long flow to Thin Red Line that seems almost unmoving; but it somehow still captivates upon repeated listenings.

No this isn't a review of Thin Red Line. I just wanted to set the tone...before I completely rail against it in my assessment of Zimmer's latest work, The Last Samurai. The first track begins quietly and does a nice job of establishing the Asiatic tone of the picture through some nice writing for ethnic instruments. Like THIN RED LINE, there is a stillness about this music that still entrances one.

The problems begin when Zimmer has to pump things up. This music is what I'd call vintage Zimmer. It's stylistically not too different from Backdraft or Black Rain. It's a wall of sound that almost lacks any real depth (if that's possible). The main culprit are those synthesizers that he layers under the orchestra. Zimmer wisely eschewed any overt eletronic sound for Thin Red Line preferring to keep things acoustic and natural. I dearly wish he'd done the same for Last Samurai. And he's such a slave to sequencers that you can literally hear when he dials up the metronome on Cubase when things get hairy on "The Way of The Sword". This is the most unnatural accelerando that I've ever heard in the history of Western music. I kid you not folks. Worse yet, I cannot fathom how this bombastic pseudo-European music will mesh with the outstanding imagery of Japanese culture that Zwick has captured. Only one of the three main themes is evocative of the Asian landscape.

My main problem with the music is that there is a sameness to it. And there isn't a lot of authentic Japanese scales or rhythmic patterns implemented here. Heck, listen to Michael Giacchino's "Siamese Coast" from his "Secret Weapons Over Normany" video game score. He uses Taiko drums but mostly a Western orchestra. However, the big difference is that he uses a scale that's intrinsically associated to the Japanese culture (tonic, min. 2nd, perfect 4th, perfect5, min 6th, octave). And the rhythmic figures played by the Taiko drums are more suited to that instrument (strong accent on downbeat in a higher pitched part of the drum while eight 16th notes play alternating figures around the basic pattern). For all Zimmer's talk about utilizing the Taiko drums for Last Samurai, they might as well be timpani insofar as the style of drumming that they are approached with. I wish Zimmer had listened to some traditional Taiko drumming or heck, Jerry Goldsmith's TORA TORA TORA for the next best thing (the critic who said the music to Last Samurai is more authentic than MULAN is plain wrong- I'll take Goldsmith's idea of Asian music any day over Zimmer).

Even the beautiful quiet music I enjoy from "A Way of Life" the soundtrack's title track gets trivialized when Zimmer repeats this tone without providing any textural variation. Goldenthal's GOLDEN GATE was a magnicifant example of how mixing Asian music with New Age can work. And he used electronics too! But he balanced them very carefully with the orchestra and, once again, used a scale comprised of intervals that are found in that culture. And that story was also about a Westerner amidst a Chinese setting.

Finally, when asked what he thought of Tan Dun's Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon score, Zimmer said "it's good, not great". I guess it was good enough to borrow from for his third theme, the most Japanese sounding of the three. There is the same thematic arc over the same chord progression (I-bVI chord). He even uses solo cello in one instance.

I was cynical when I first heard the news that ZImmer was scoring Last Samurai. Then I calmed down, listened to THIN RED LINE and got encouraged by that senstive and sublime approach he took toward that. Last Samurai doesn't at all live up to that standard. It is a regression backwards in time to the Hans Zimmer of the early '90's. I truly hoped that Zimmer had expanded and grown as a composer after The Thin Red Line. And for that score, he did. I'll give credit where credit is due. But I wouldn't even say that Last Samurai is as varied or deep as his score to Gladiator.

Now lets just step aside a moment and take another film score that was written for a disillusioned Civil War hero who finds himself immersed in a foriegn culture: Dances with Wolves. John Barry approached his score to the film preferring to keep the music mostly Westernized (no pun intended). But first he had a dozen themes that were clearly different from each other while still having a fundamental continuity between them (the Love Theme and Two Socks both have octave leaps to begin with). And Barry's romantic style really gelled with the visuals from the film. It didn't hurt that his scoring tendencies have always leaned toward the broad and epic in his orchestration (lots of unison horns). The difference was Dances With Wolves was all acoustic. All of the textural effects were achieved through a variety of articulations and playing techniques on regular orchestral instruments. And when he wanted to evoke the sound of Native Americans, he had flutes flutter-tonging or the percussion section playing eratic, rhythmically staggered figures on large drums, the same he used for KING KONG incidently, just different rhythmic patterns since he didn't have that "one size fits all" mentality. What's truly upsetting is that Zimmer had an even broader textural canvas to paint on but resorted to paint-by-numbers when it came to the application of the instrumentation for Last Samurai.

I cannot fathom as to what Zwick was going for where the score was concerned. After working with James Horner, who admittedly steals everything that's not nailed down, one would think he'd have a desire to keep the music acoustic and natural. From everythin I've read about themaking of Last Samurai, great lengths were taken to make the film as authentic as possible. I don't understand whether the score is merely Zimmer's inability or limitations as a composer to broaden his stylistic palette or whether this is yet again another case where someone who really understands very little about music had control of the ship and drove it into the perverbial iceberg. Either way, my enthusiasm for seeing this film has been tainted by an effort that I would call completly average, predictable, and as culturally rich as one of Zamfir's albums. I really hope the film improves upon my appreciation for the music. It certainly has its work cut out for it.

[Hlao-roo 388]

Thanks for your (thoughtful) impressions. I regard Zimmer's work in much the same way you do -- with The Thin Red Line as his crowning achievement and much of his other stuff as simplistic and stultifying -- so reading your preliminary review has definitely aided my purchasing decisions...

[King Mark 2,924]

Well,that sounds like music good for movies that stay #1 at the box office one week then fade away.

K.M.

[Morlock 9]

Well, I disagree about Zimmer (I think he is MUCH better than people give him credit for), but you are right that The Last Samurai is not a great achievment, to say the least.

[Romão 1,931]

Hanibal is my favorite Zimmer score...one of the few I enjoy.

Romão, who thinks Zimmer is talented but missguided.

[David Coscina 3]

I agree. I don't have anything against Zimmer as a person or composer...well maybe a little of the latter. But I know he can score films reasonably well (Rain Main, Gladiator, Thin Red Line). I don't know what went wrong with Last Samurai. As I detailed, it very well may have been Zwick. Although listen to Horner's scores for Zwick films. They're pretty darn great. No, I just think this project was a little over Zimmer's compositional head. Or he had very little time to write the score and went into auto-pilot mode. That would account for his regression towards an older style.

I'm still looking forward to seeing the film. It could very well change my low opinions of the music. I hope it does. But listening to the music of Michael Giacchino all week prior to getting Last Samurai was a bad idea. He's a much better melodicist than Zimmer IMHO. Cannot wait until his SWON CD comes out. I love "THe Siamese Coast" track. Now THAT would sound great under Last Samurai....

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Why do people credit Thin Red Line as Zimmer's best?

I never thought that one was anything great.

His action scores are his best works.

[Incanus 5,519]

Some people seem terribly exited about the Thin Red Line. I bought a while ago and it does not impress me. The style is typical Zimmer with heavy strings and uninteresting underscore. Journey to the line is not that great people!!

[Morlock 9]

I think Zimmer is taken all wrong. He does have his all out synth unoriginal action music (like Drop Zone or MI:2) but he is almost always in sync with what the movie needs, and had a much wider range than people give him credit for.

Crimson Tide set the standard for action scoring, and is a fantastic score.

Muppet Treasure is not a hard to find item because of the Barry Mann songs, but because of Zimmer wonderful pirate music, which is almost as good as Hook.

The Rock, even though it is possibly the least original MV score- is one of the best and most popular ones, because it has so much energy, and all the action music is not undecipherable, but quite the contrary- it's all themtically based, with a wide enough array of themes to sustain itself.

As Good as it gets- a great small romantic score, to me always brings to mind Fellini and Rota.

Gladiator- Although a lot of people don't like it because of the obvious Holst reference/lift- you know what? Holst would've scored this scene had he been alive, and Zimmer just used what was right for the scene. He had 10 minutes of the best action music of all time, right up there with Ice Planet Hoth IMO.

Plus, IMO Holst's Mars is not a great piece, and is not nearly as great as the other planets. I think Zimmer's lift is superior to the original.

Hannibal is one of the most underated and overlooked scores of 2001. It is a wonderful, gothic, horror score and has some real emotion in it. I find 'Dear Clarice' to bring up so many tragic monsters- Nosferatu, Frankenstein, King Kong.

Invincible is also a fantastic score. No great themes or especialy fast paced music, but it feels more like a symphony than any score in the past few years. Very Mahler-esque.

And Driving Ms. Daisy even has some great comic music.

That's why I find a new Zimmer score to be an event, as opposed to Horner or lately even Goldsmith.

Morlock- who's tired of the stupid, mindless Zimmer bashing

[Romão 1,931]

.

 Gladiator- Although a lot of people don't like it because of the obvious Holst reference/lift- you know what? Holst would've scored this scene had he been alive, and Zimmer just used what was right for the scene. He had 10 minutes of the best action music of all time, right up there with Ice Planet Hoth IMO.  

  Plus, IMO Holst's Mars is not a great piece, and is not nearly as great as the other planets. I think Zimmer's lift is superior to the original.

mindless Zimmer bashing

With this I can't agree. Not in Zimmer's wildest dreams would he compose a piece like Mars. And what about the Wagner rip-offs in the score?

[David Coscina 3]

Agreed. Zimmer's lifts of Wagner's RING cycle music is pretty obvious and not neary as deftly scored. Although it's not fair to compare any film composer to Wagner who revolutionised Western music.

I've been listening to LAST SAMURAI some more and the quieter moments such as "A Hard Teacher" aren't too bad. I can see them working in the context of the film which is really all Zimmer's job was. Whether it's great music outside the film is something else. I'll be doing a follow-up review of the score tomorrow since I'm seeing a sneak preview of the film tomorrow night.

I guess I shouldn't have been dumb enough to watch Akira Kurosawa's RAN the other week in anticipation of LAST SAMURAI. Zimmer's music will NEVER match the truly amazing score of Toru Takemitsu. His string elegy functions like a Mahler funeral durge during the seige on the fortress and is so haunting. Even as Takemitsu pieces go, RAN is one of his crowning achievements in composition.

One thing that is found in almost all oriental music is the prominance of silence. There are wide open spaces that occur in this style of music that allows silence to function as a musical extension. Even look at Seven Samurai. The main theme which is boisterous and fairly western is played by a small ensemble (trumpets and trombones in unison, along with a few woodwinds). There has always been a certain economy to Japanese and Chinese music. It's much more linear and certainly less convoluted than Western music without being static. It's a balance that I don't think most Occidental composer's get. Goldenthal got it for Golden Gate though. Fire Water Paper too. Mychael Danna has also been very senstive to other ethnic musics. His score for ICE STORM is absolutely beautiful.

In light of Danna's replacement on THE HULK, it would have been great to hear what he would have composed for LAST SAMURAI. I know he would have been better able to underscore the meditative moments with more delicacy and even could have had a more appropriate sound for the battle scenes (which I still believe are awfully written cues by Zimmer).

We will never know though...sigh.

[CYPHER 1]

Thanks for posting the review Fiery Angel . It was thoughtfully written and a good read too. I'm a long time devotee of Zimmer's The Thin Red Line. I think one really has to look at the film itself for an explanation for the quality of that score. Its astounding cineamtography, thematic richness and beautifully meditative editing obviously struck a cord with Zimmer and allowed him to really write a magical score that was in many ways unique from most other works he has produced before or since. I only wish that we will all get to hear more of this score on CD in the not-too-distant future.

I also liked your brief review of Dances With Wolves. It's rarely talked about in depth here, but you really nailed some of it's most distinctive features.

Finally, to address the issue of Zimmer's merits overall, I think he is capable of considerable flexibility and innovation. I'm just not particulalry impressed by his 'big scores' for 'big movies', especially historical pieces such as Gladiator, Pearl Harbor and by the sounds of it The Last Samurai. Synthesisers really aren't necessary here! That's why I'm more of a fan of his scores for smaller, more personal, more dramatic films such as True Romance, The Pledge, Hannibal and even The Ring. He certainly contibuted extensively to the relative effectiveness of all these movies.

CYPHER

[ymenard 35]

I can't believe Zimmer said such thing about Dun Tan's score for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. If one thing, there's more musical art in one single CT,HD piece then an entire Zimmer score, more emotion then about everything he's ever done

Oh wait... Zimmer's probably just whining about the fact that didn't get the best score Oscar for Gladiator. HA! My god, he's sometimes worse then Horner.

[Morlock 9]

What's wrong with what he said? Crouching Tiger isn't a great score, but a very good one.

And he's never worse than Horner. He happens to be the best interviewee among film composers, and talked in the same interview quite reasonably about his oscar loss.

And Zimmer has tons of emotional music.

[ocelot 445]

Why do people talk about Zimmer's music without talking about the 9 or 10 other people who write a lot if not most of each score? And I mean write, not orchestrate, not arrange but write..... Are people that deluded?

[Morlock 9]

9 or 10 people do not write most of each score. He writes most of his scores. If he doesn't- it's clearly listed. The Rock is credited as the three composers, Invincible is listed as Zimmer and Badelt, and the best part of Gladiator is written by Zimmer alone. Lebo M's part in Lion king is laso clearly listed.

And except for a couple of exceptions ALL of his best music is written by him alone.

[Morn 7]

Look Zimmer often miscores scenes and his scores have no consistancy. He's not a very good supporter of films, even if he adds the right emotion sometimes. Yes I grant he's better than many people give him credit, but he's worse than many people give him credit too.

I can't believe Zimmer said such thing about Dun Tan's score for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. If one thing, there's more musical art in one single CT,HD piece then an entire Zimmer score, more emotion then about everything he's ever done

Why are you getting so worked up about Zimmer's opinion of a score? And why are you assuming that he's comparing it to his own work. I don't remember him then saying but my score is great.

[ocelot 445]

uuuummmm, morlock.... I happen to know media ventures very well....... But you think whatever you want to. Go ahead. Be my guest..... LOL

[Morlock 9]

Do you mind elaborating?

[ymenard 35]

I got just pissed about Zimmer even daring to say his opinion of Dun Tan's score and badmouth it. It's pure jealousy over the fact that he's lost the oscar over Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. He's so over himself from the image he promotes publically.

I mean it's too obvious, everybody thought Gladiator would win, Zimmer included. But it didn't, that probably pissed him real hard that Hollywood would snob him. Well, they had a true reason. Anyway if Zimmer had won, they should have had somebody descending from Holst take the award

[Morlock 9]

He has every right to, and saying a score is good, not great is hardley badmoutihng. Williams said the same thing about Psycho.

And what he said is at the very least debatable. Composers speak about other composers scores all the time, positivley and negatively.

[David Coscina 3]

I didn't really get upset at the comment he made. And he did say this verbatum. I believe it was in an interview with Apple.com or Steinberg...one of the two. He did say this.

But he has his own tastes. And he also said that he didn't expect to win for Gladiator. He was upset at not winning for THin Red Line since it took him a year to write.

I wish he had more time to spend on Last Samurai. As my other post "Last Samurai post screening thoughts" attests, his music was basically functional and did, at times, detract from the film.

On the way home, I played "Night Fight" from Crouching Tiger HIdden Dragon. That kind of rhythmic style is what was lacking in LAst Samurai. Zimmer has no idea of advanced rhythms. There were no polyrhythmic elements so the Taiko drumming was all very bland (and barely audible with all the friggin electronics!).

I've no doubt that Zimmer will do something great in the future. Last Samurai just wasn't it. But, knowing the Academy voters, he'll get a nomination for his "stirring score". Somewhere, Toru Takemitsu is rolling in his grave.

[ymenard 35]

The Thin Red Line took Zimmer a year to write? Hmm well I guess it takes that long to analyse Philip Glass and copy him correctly Mallick just said to him : "make something almost exact as what you heard in my temp-track"

[CYPHER 1]

Where did you hear that Malick used Philip Glass music for his temp track for The Thin Red Line ymenard? I don't really see the connection myself, but I'm intrigued nonetheless since I love both Glass and this movie. In some ways the effect of Zimmer's score is similar to that produced by some of Glass' work e.g. his scores for Kundun and even The Hours, in that it's soothing and meditative tone touches upon the transcendental at times. But I don't think the sound is very similar at all - there is repetition and balance but little of the frenetic quality that characterises Glass' music. Okay maybe "Stone In My Heart" has more than a touch of Glass now that I think about it ... Anyway, this is by no means an attack - I'm genuinely curious about your thoughts (and everyone else's for that matter) .

CYPHER

[QMM 4]

But listening to the music of Michael Giacchino all week prior to getting Last Samurai was a bad idea.

Bad idea?

I'll be sure to stay clear away from this score

[Rogue_Leader 2]

You know I was planning to get this. I need to get around to it soon.

-Rogue Leader who thinks Thin Red Line is no big deal what-so-ever and that Zimmer's crowning achievement is more like The Rock.