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Least Favorite Indiana Jones film? (and why)


MrScratch

Lest favorite Indiana Jones film?  

43 members have voted

  1. 1.

    • Raiders of the Lost Ark
      7
    • Temple of Doon
      17
    • The Last Crusade
      19


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I just watched my "Last Crusade" DVD for the first time since I bought it. I watched RoTLA and ToD right away, but hadn't gotten around to LC until now... in fact, until last month, it's been years since I've actually watched a complete Indy movie. Raiders and Doom are just as I remember them, but Last Crusade seems to have gotten worse since I was a kid.

Raiders and Crusade were always my favorite two, but watching it now, I couldn't help be a bit annoyed at the abundance of humor and lack of genuine thrills in the film.

It seems that every major scene in the film has a silly gag or a punchline. Even the tank-chase, one of the greatest action scenes ever, is not without moments of silliness, most of which involve Brody. "Henry, the pen is mightier than the sword." "How does one get off this thing?"

I'm not saying I don't like a touch of humor here or there, but LC goes overboard. Some dark moments would have really contrasted well with all of the light and humorous aspects of the film. Afterall, the notion of the Nazi's getting their hands on the Holy Grail is a bit grim. The artifact itself, the cup of Christ, isn't really given much respect in the film, unlike the Ark of the Covenant.

Another thing that troubled me... the pitfalls leading to the Grail don't seem that dangerous. What if scores of men charged through the first test, instead of just one. The giant razor-blades couldn't take them all down, could they? With the word of God, it seems that one could simply build a makeshift bridge across the floor of letters, couldn't it. And the leap of faith has boggled my mind even since I first saw it in the theater. Indy made it across, but it seems that even a "good" person like Indy had trouble believing that he could walk across. Did Donovan and Elsa have as much trouble getting across? Or was it just an invisible bridge and NOT a leap of faith at all?

Of course, one could argue that a place that houses the cup of Christ would only let the purest of heart through to the Grail, no matter what the challenge. For example, Elsa lost her mind and tried to take the Grail and run. But then if this idea is true, how did Elsa and Donovan cross that damn bridge?

The cave itself is not very believable either. When Indy and company reach the canyon of the crescent moon, you know thats really an ancient carving in the side of the rock. It's quite impressive. But, cut to the interior, and it screams "Hollywood Set!" The rock walls look fake, its lit a little too well. The chasm where the leap of faith is seems to be lit be sunlight. It would have been better if the deeper Indy got in the cave, the darker it became. The Grail cave is nothing compared to the temple in Peru, the Well of the Souls, or the lava caverns in ToD.

I know this is popcorn entertainment here and is not supposed to be Citizen Kane or Schindlers List. But so is Raiders of the lost Ark, and there are no gaping plot holes or fake sets in that one. And the humor is just right.

Last Crusade will always have a special place in my heart, its still a fun movie and I did enjoy watching it. Although I did see ToD in the theater, LC is the only Indy movie that I vividly remember looking forward to its release. But never before has all of what I have mentioned seemed so obvious to me as it does now.

Anyway... I thought this would make good discussion fodder. Agree or disagree with me? Whats your least favorite Indy movie and why?

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Ohh? On my viewing of the DVD's Raiders became a classic with the best action sequence ever (truck scene) which properly diptics the german army as the highly skilled fighting force it was from what I considered merely a good action movie, and TOD which I haven't seen since I was a kid became a flawed movie from a great funny action movie, heh.

It seems that every major scene in the film has a silly gag or a punchline. Even the tank-chase, one of the greatest action scenes ever, is not without moments of silliness, most of which involve Brody. "Henry, the pen is mightier than the sword." "How does one get off this thing?"

Yes, I have yet to watch the DVD, but that's why I have considered it the best comedy ever.

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I'd say Temple of Doom, because it's not as fun or funny as the 1st and 3rd. It's still miles beyond just about any other adventure movie, but just not as entertaining as the others, which are as good as it gets.

I think the humor is the most important aspect of the Indy movies, and it's what's lacking in most action/adventure movies.

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(Just saw Morn's post)

I also agree that TLC is one of the best comedies ever.

You havn't seen it since you were a kid? I've seen them all at least 15 times each and I've seen The Last Crusade at least 40 times. It was my favorite for a while, but now I think it and Raiders are too close to call.

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I love ToD, if for nothing else, for the fact that it would never be released today. Indiana Jones underground in a devil worshipping cult, enslaving and beating children... etc. The more I think about Spielbergs other films the more I can't believe that HE directed ToD. I can't think of too many popcorn flicks where a main kid character gets tied up and savagely whipped by a guy 10 times bigger than him.

I tip my Fedora to Lucas and Spielberg for doing something that no filmmaker can do today... make a sequel that is almost 100% different from the original.

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I'd say Temple of Doom, because it's not as fun or funny as the 1st and 3rd. It's still miles beyond just about any other adventure movie, but just not as entertaining as the others, which are as good as it gets.

 I think the humor is the most important aspect of the Indy movies, and it's what's lacking in most action/adventure movies.

There is quite a bit of humor in ToD... think of almost any line uttered by Short Round. Think of Willie's reaction to any of the horrific stuff she is put through. The entire opening scene is full of gags, I love when Indy punches the waitress, hilarious. I don't think people remember the humor because it is mixed in among the more horrific aspects of the film. One of my alltime favorite Indy moments is when he looks up after stealing the Sankara Stones to see the snake head, just that brief pause before he fixes his hat is priceless.

The LC humor is not at all subtle, its more vaudevilian (is that a word? forgive me if it isn't), each gag is said or done with a grin and a wink. A lot of the jokes seem forced and entire action sequences built around jokes. I like the ToD humor more because its woven into the story and characters better. As annoying as Willie Scott is, she's the one character that I can identify with in all three of the Indy films. Put a blond wig on me and put me in those situations and I would be exactly the same! Screaming my head off and passing out...

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Remind me never to go with you on archological adventures....

LC humor is absolutely great humor however.

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As much as I love the series, Last Crusade still feels like a watered down Raiders saved only by Sean Connery's prescence, some decent action and a fun score.

Neil

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I'm sorry, but Raiders and TLC are nothing alike.

Stefancos- who think hell freezing over must have blinded Neil.

Except they both deal with Indiana Jones trying to recover a religious artifact before the Nazi's do. Too many similarities there to say they have nothing in common.

Neil

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Temple of Doom,

No real story, just lousy acting. You just don't get involved in the story. The film's storytelling is just too fast. The characters don't get real form. You know Indiana Jones from the previous film, but the other characters are just staying flat and meaningless. Also the whole story isn't getting filtered out. People who lost their children, magical stones which are being woreshipped by villagepeople. No No No! Then the palace with a strange Maharadja, who seems to be awfully young and who doesn't seem te come accross.

Hmm my teacher seems to enter the classroom.

I finish this up later !!

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DEFINATELY THE 2nd Temple of Doom!

I find that film alot weaker than the other two!

Why?

1) The Willy character: Kate Capshaw cant act for shit and the character she plays in that movie is annoying as hell.

2) The Short Round charactrer: Kids in movies are usually lame. This is no exception. The kid was not only incredibly annoying, but did a whole bunch of dumb crap and the whole deal of him kicking ass in the fiolm is totally laughable.

3) The movies FAR less mature, really kiddy attitude: The movie seems like almost a joke after the serious nature of the first film. I dunno what the hell Spielberg and Lucas were thinking. The film almost seems like the "Return of the Jedi" of the Indy films if you catch my drift. With Raiders being the ESB and Last Crusade like A New Hope.

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1) The Willy character: Kate Capshaw cant act for shit and the character she plays in that movie is annoying as hell.

At least the other characters agree.

2) The Short Round charactrer: Kids in movies are usually lame. This is no exception. The kid was not only incredibly annoying, but did a whole bunch of dumb crap and the whole deal of him kicking ass in the fiolm is totally laughable.

Actually I like that character, I tended to relate to him and indy in the movie most. :sleepy: Annoying? Not really, sometimes funny, dumb? sometimes, but eh he's a kid.

3) The movies FAR less mature, really kiddy attitude: The movie seems like almost a joke after the serious nature of the first film.

It works with LC.

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What did you mean when you said "At least the other characters agree"?

Do you mean they agree that she is annoying?

Well ...... so what? I mean why create an annoying character intentionally. It seems they tried to make her annoying to create some comic relief but in the end all they did was make her more annoying to the audience than to the characters in the film. :sleepy:

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I said that with tougue and cheek, but heh, she is indeed annoying, but we sympathise with the main characters. :sleepy:

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After watching all the films again on DVD. I have to say that ToD is almost as brilliant as Raiders. The action never ends. It's such a fantastic movie! It also has a lot more of an original ending then TLC. (Just another gross special effect of the bad guy dieing) where as with ToD you get the stunning Bridge Finale Scene. :sleepy:

Justin -Who thinks Rogue is down right nutty.

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Last Crusade. Indy on his most self-referential adventure. Always sad when a series turns to self parody. Great movie, just too self conscious.

PS. Willie's not annoying to me. She's seksy. Its good to see heroes have to deal with opposites. Like Jedi/JarJar duo. An enjoyable gimmick.

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I think The Last Crusade is just too brilliantly hillarious. The jokes feel new, and are performed to perfection by two of the biggest stars of all times, which is extremely rare.

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Except they both deal with Indiana Jones trying to recover a religious artifact before the Nazi's do.  Too many similarities there to say they have nothing in common.

Neil

Yes, but in the details these are completely different films.

And even if they were alike, so what?

Most Bond films are alike, you don't seem to mind.

Nemesis is basically Wrath Of Khan with the TNG crew, but you still like that film.

Stefancos- :baaa:

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Easily Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, or Least Crusade.

It features the weakest score of the three films, it features the weakest acting of the three films. Its has by far the weakest story elements of the three films.

Last Crusade is easily the dumbest of the films, and it treats the audience as stupid.

It destroys the mythos of Indiana Jones, by giving us the unnecessary opening sequence meant only as humor, to tell us why Indy has the hat, why Indy has the whip, why Indy has the scar, and why Indy is afraid of snakes. Thanks, George, for outlining that for me.

Then we get the keystone cops ala Nazi's who bumble around trying to stop Indy. And this was the master race, yeah right.

Lets go further....Lazy, lazy direction, lazy acting, lazy scoring, lazy production values. There isn't any doubt of the three films LC has the worst production values, probably the worst of any Spielberg film.

Lets talk about the special effects, wait, there were not any, at least not that were special. The airship looks so convincing!!!

Yes the casting of Sean Connery was inspired, but the lack of a central villian is another of the undoing of this film. Donavan is not as brilliant or coniving as Belouq, and never as physically menacing as Mola Ram.

Elsa was beautiful, but she wasn't well thought out. Say what you want but Willie Scott, might have been annoying, but she dominated the screen, where as the chick who played Elsa looked like a deer in the headlights.

Sloppy is seeing Elsa hold up the cup and you can she a nice chamfered bottom in the cup obviously made by modern machinery

I cannot fault the film for the gross out ending, all three films have to feature the gross out sequence, and some creepy crawler type sequence, thats standard Indy fare. Things I like about LC, I like the scenes at the school. I like the scenes in Venice, I love X marks the spot. I love the Knight of the Crusade. I love the trials Indy must undergo to find the grail. I love it when the Knight says "he chose poorly".

there is no doubt in my mind the order of these films is Raiders of the Lost Ark, a classic film, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, a great Bondian fortress type film, and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, a good, but tired and uninspired sequel.

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What the heck? Worst Spielberg film? Ok it may not be ToD/Raiders but it sure is better than 1941, A.I. Hook, and Always.

Justin -Pretty sure now that Joe got the names mixed up and he is going to be eaten by the shark. :baaa:

Not to mention, whipped by a large Indiana Jones in a tie. :thumbup:

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@JoeinAr: I completely disagree with you on just about everything.

The movie is a throwback to the Hardy Brothers. It has no aspirations beyond entertaining. It is hillarious, exhilirating, acted perfectly by the two leads, and although Glover and Doody(SP?) may not be ideal, there at the very least adequate.

I think the score is better than TOD and even better than Raiders. Shcerzo for Motorcycle and Orchetra, if arranged correctly, is one of JW's very best themes, and I think Indy'd First Adventure is underrated for how great, exhilirating and fun it is.

Nothing about the movie is lazy (fine, the special effects are lacking- but that's all I'll give ya'), every singe part of it is exactly in tune with the movie's needs.

It is one of Spielberg's best films.

Morlock- who has heard a lot of crazy things in his day, but can't possibly understand how anyone could deslike this film, much less an intelligent guy like JoeinAr and Much less disliking it to such a degree

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I dont understand how anyone could say Last Crusade is a dumber film than Temple of Doom.

Temple of Doom looks like it was made for people with low IQs and attention spans in mind. THATS NOT AN INSULT TO ANYONE HERE WHO ENJOYED IT! I really enjoy that movie. I just mean it seems like the film was less about story and more about over-the-top action.

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I'm not so much of a fan of The Last Crusade. It just was'nt original enough for me. In my opinion, the 3rd film should of been very different. We'd had the north african thing with Raiders of the Lost Ark. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom had the Indian theme. The 3rd film should of gone wildly in another direction like South America. Something to do with the Incas perhaps. Yes it still would of been archaeological in nature. But more interesting to me. I agree with Neil saying that the 3rd movie is a kind of watered down version of Raiders of the Lost Ark. I side with that. A less polished and rather tacky imitation in some places. We're finished with the Nazi thing. Why did we have to ressurect it just for the "familiarity" factor?.

I always found the Crusader Knight idea absurd too, and heading far too much into fantasy. Some guy with a sword looking after the grail? (sighs). It was too "Fantasy" for my liking (at least the Thugee cult in Temple of Doom had a basis in historical fact and reality, albeit nowhere near as dramatic as the way they're portrayed in the movie). A 3rd movie which took place in the South America andes would of been great. Given the regions rich archaeological heritage and myths, it could of been much more interesting i feel. More like the storyline of the 1954 Charlton Heston film "Secret of the Incas" (which i watch quite a lot). I agree with Joe that much of TLC seemed to be about spending half of the movie explaining things and the relationship with his father. The later Young Indy programs did that much better. TLC is a slapstick Indy adventure which took quite a lot of the "tough man" aura away from Indiana Jones infact. You cannot help but laugh at some parts (especially with Connery). But as a story, it was very un-interesting (imo).

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OK I will admit the knight guy at the end of Last Crusade was a little ridiculous.

However, because the idea was kind of creative and because the actor who played the knight did such a good job in being both serious and for a few bits humorous I overall liked the idea.

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What the heck? Worst Spielberg film? Ok it may not be ToD/Raiders but it sure is better than 1941, A.I. Hook, and Always.  

Justin, I didn't say it was Spielberg's worst film(that title belongs to A.I.), just that of all Spielberg's films it has the worst production values.

And people you seriously need to read what I said,

I never said I don't like the film, its good, but I prefer Raiders and TOD, and despite what William thinks, TOD is a smarter film, that LC, it ventures into the territory of Gunga Din, and though it isn't of that film's quality it takes the audience to a place most never knew existed, and with out a doubt TOD has the best musical ending of the series.

Sorry Morlock, I have the "complete" LC score thanks to 2 very great people here, and while it is an ok score, better than I initially regarded it, LC's score isn't in the league of Raiders or TOD, not even close

Joe, close to his death bed with a cold, feel like shite, but able to type.

Joe 2, who has not watched any of the DVD's yet since my copy is officially a Christmas present, but I did watch the unimpressive and extremely short extra disk.

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You must mean the Best Buy DVD- since the actual Special features DVD is neiter unimpressive nor extremely short (I know- too many negatives)

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Except for their music, the two sequels are very unimportant movies, even for popcorn movies. The DVD combined packaging is seemingly another low trick applied by Lucas. Take it all or leave with nothing. I choose to leave with nothing. Even if that box was sold for the price of one DVD, I still have no interest in buying films I just don't want to have in my collection. I can't believe how some of you talk about them as if they are good films. The second and the third in the series are simply not. Watch and weep and then put them on the shelf forever. Live with it.

-----------------

Alex Cremers

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I don't think it's a low trick at all- most people would want all three, but might not put out the $20+ for each movie. This way they get all of them, and for around the same price it would've cost to get two of them individualy (depending on where you bought it).

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Like Steef, I CANNOT vote.

I love ALL THREE equally. There is no favorite.

-Raiders: Best action adventure from start to finish. Best ending of the three, IMO.

-TOD: Darkest, yet some insane fun, especially in the middle portion of the film.

-TLC: From start to finish, the funniest, and one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. The jokes are everywhere! LOL

I cannot pick a favorite. Raiders is the classic of the three, and the other two are perfect in their own ways as well. Perfect companions.

-Chris, Who can't vote... All three are top-notch in my book.

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That makes three of us. I mean, if thóse films won't do it for you guys, which will? I know that Last Crusade is a bit of a rehashing of Raiders in a few places, but it's still a very good film in its own way, with great acting and humour. It takes itself less serious. (However, I hope that Indy IV will be a mixture of Raiders and ToD, because you can't repeat the formula of LC twice I think.)

Oh, and I would like to have seen Indiana Jones end up as the Grail Knight, as conceived by a screenwriter (was it Kasdan? anyone?).

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Quote:  

Jedi/JarJar duo. An enjoyable gimmick.  

 

Are you serious, Jeshopk?  

If you are I'll have to report this.

I have a strange sense of humor that is once removed from the film makers intentions. I know Lucas intended it to be truly funny (I gues it IS for kids and moms), but if you don't really care whether the prequels live up to the original trilogy, then Jar Jar is as funny as Poochy the talking dog being introduced to Itchy and Scratchy. Its ironic funny. I just get so uncomfortable and entertained seeing the overly calm Jedi talking to a cartoon in a submarine. I guess I don't lament the films shortcomings because they are a spectacle unto themselves.

I knew someone as annoying as Jar Jar. And I felt much like the Jedi. I can relate on that level too. Its a funny situation for Jedi to have to deal with as it brings out the worst in them. Also, they treat him with lack of dignity, which is a thread in the films that the Jedi have become too arrogant.

However, I think Willie Scott actually works in the film without irony becaue Indy's character and acting style is calibrated to fit with hers. (A little more over the top)

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The funniest, and one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. The jokes are everywhere! LOL

Really? :| . You think it surpasses Life of Brian and Monty Python's Holy Grail?.

NEVER 8O :D

Melange - Knows they're the funniest ever conceived by man (sorry for any women not mentioned).

:music: End Credits - Mulan :music:

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It's supposed to be the last Crusade, not the last Indiana Jones film.

The first 2 films were not crusades.

Stefancos- :music:

thanks as always for your insite to the situation

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You must mean the Best Buy DVD- since the actual Special features DVD is neiter unimpressive nor extremely short (I know- too many negatives)

no I mean the short and extremely dissappointing bonus disc from Paramount, not the BB disc which was only a tease.

With all that is out there it really is a slap in the face to the fans.

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Any.....cwucifixions?..... Justin

Sneak preview of Mel Gibsons new script.

Nisus : "Crucifixion?"

Cheeky : "Eh, no, freedom."

Nisus : "What?"

Cheeky : "Freedom for me.They said I hadn't done anything, so i can go free, and live on an island somewhere."

Nisus : "Oh. Well, that's jolly good. Well, off you go then."

Cheeky : "No, I'm only pulling your leg. It's crucifixion really."

Nisus : "Oh, I see. Very good, very good. Well, out of the door..."

Cheeky : "Yeah, out of the way, out of the door, one cross each, line on the left."

Nisus : "Line on the left, yes. Thank you....Crucifixion??"

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While we're on the subject on Indy I'd liked to make a shout out to Steven Speilberg .........

WHERE THE HELL IS MY F%^&ING 4TH INDY MOVIE YOU LAZY BASTARD!?!?!?!?!

Sorry ........ I had to get that out. They don't get this thing out soon Indy is going to be exploring ancient tombs trying to decide which one they should bury him in.

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What do you mean!? they have their location scouts out all over the world right now, to start filming in July!

Never heard of July where is that? Sounds European almost. :sigh:

Justin

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Apparently Indy will also be shooting in Hawaii next summer. Interestingly, casting rumors are calling for a John Wayne look alike for the film. :sigh:

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