Michael Nyman

[CYPHER 1]

Now here’s a notable film composer who I don’t hear mentioned too often on these messageboards. I’ve always quietly admired and enjoyed Nyman’s film scores, but it has only been over the last few months that I’ve actually come to own some samples of his music on CD and hence been able to appreciate it all that much more. In particular, The very best of Michael Nyman: Film Music – 1980-2001 album has been a great eye-opener into the breadth and scope of his numerous compositions for film. It provides a chronological overview of many of his most important scores, covering his work for the films of Peter Greenaway in the 1980s (such as The Draughtsman’s Contract and Drowning By Numbers) and his recent engagement with more mainstream productions in the 1990s (such as Gattaca, The End of the Affair and The Claim).

There is a distinctive Michael Nyman sound. What he might lack in diversity and versatility, he more than compensates for with the amazing flair, energy and vitality that characterises his compositions. Furthermore, there is that exquisite and almost torturous emotional undercurrent underpinning so many of his cues.

Essentially this thread is an opportunity to discuss Michael Nyman’s work in general and a means for me to gauge what the rest of you think about his music. As people I’ve posted alongside for almost two years now I am genuinely interested in your opinions, especially regarding a subject I’m personally enthusiastic about.

So I want to know if you love Nyman’s music or if you hate it, or even if you’ve never heard any or if you don’t have much of an opinion either way. If you are a fan, then what are some of his scores you enjoy, and considering I am hoping to expand my Nyman collection, which of his albums would you recommend (or conversely, not recommend)? Also, what is it you like (or dislike) about his music and his style? This is also a great opportunity to discuss Nyman’s non-film music as well, as I know he has composed at least several pieces unrelated to film. So please people, fire away!

CYPHER

[Morlock 11]

I really no almost nothing about him aside for The Piano. But that's fantastic.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

never heard of him,

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

One of my favourite composers, and I've been playing his music non-stop lately. The Piano is good for starters, but I think it gets much better still. My recommended album for starters would be Michael Nyman Live, which among other things includes a stunning suite from Piano, performed by the Michael Nyman Band...I actually prefer this to the OST.

Don't stop with his soundtracks though, Nyman has written lots of great stuff for his band and orchestras. My favourites are the Concertos CD on EMI (two wonderful concertos that showcase Nyman's typical way of suddenly introducing amazingly wonderful melodies after a long development section, plus the extremely cacophonic but just as fascinating harpsichord concerto) and MGV, which describes a train journey on the TGV (coupled with The Piano Concerto, which is based on the Piano soundtrack).

My most recent Nyman acquisitions are Aet (After Extra Time) (an album containing three works related to soccer, all very good and typically Nyman) plus the opera Facing Goya. Basically, nearly everything he does is at least very good. Unfortunately, most of his stuff is only available as import here, which means it's expensive. But I try to get as much as I can.

One other thing I like about him is that he usually writes the liner notes for his albums. They can also be found at his website, www.michaelnyman.com

Last year I attended a concert with Nyman conducting the Niederösterreichisches Tonkünstlerorchester. Unfortunately, they played about 50% of the notes completely wrong - it was horrible. He's been coming to Austria regularly, several times with his Band, so I hope I still get to hear that combination.

Marian - continuing his minimalism spree with:

Sneakers (James Horner)

[CYPHER 1]

Thanks for your post Marian - I knew you were a fan because I'd noticed you listening away to his music while you're posting .

I'll keep my eye out for some of those concert albums you mentioned. Any idea what their proper titles are? Also I'm confused by your acronyms: EMI I recognise as a record label, but MGV and TGV? I've seen a couple of non-film composition albums of his lying about in shops here, but I still don't know enough about these to make wise purchasing choices. Yet . I did hear one review (over at soundtrack.net I believe) criticising one of his concertos (can't remember which off the top of my head) as being immensely disappointing ... :?

While I appreciate that you're a bigger fan of his concert work, which of his film scores do you like? Are you a fan of his earlier, Peter Greenaway stuff or his more recent efforts? I've definitely heard a lot more of the latter, and whilst I haven't seen many of these films, the whole quasi-'Hollywood' connection personally makes them seem a lot more accessible. I'm particularly impressed with what I've heard of Wonderland and The Claim.

As for your dodgy experience at the Nyman concert - that sounds pretty painful. It must've been so disappointing too! :cry: A few years back Michael Nyman came here and performed as part of the Sydney festival. I'm not sure, but he may have brought his band with him... I never went, as my attendance then just seemed beyond the world of possibility. Looking back I wished I had gone and I would certainly jump at the chance, if it should ever rise again (though unlikely here). The same thing happened a few years before with Philip Glass, who performed a live accompaniment of his music for Koyaanisqatsi during the screening of the film. Two of my favourite composers performing in my home town and I missed them both! Oh well, what're you gonna do?

CYPHER

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

A shame hardly anyone else here seems to be interested in Nyman. To contribute a bit more, it was Nyman who came up with the term "minimalism" for music.

The concerts I was talking about:

1) Michael Nyman Edition No. 1: Concertos; EMI 7243 5 56487 2 3

Double Concerto for Saxophone, Cello and Orchestra (commisioned by Mazda Cars UK Limited)
• Concerto for Harpsichord and Strings
  
• Concerto for Trombone and Orchestra
  At first, I was actually slightly disappointed by this, but now it's one of my favourite Nyman CDs.
  2) The Piano Concerto / MGV (Musique a Grande Vitesse); Argo 443 382-2
  MGV was written for the inauguration of the TGV or some new track for the TGV or something like that; the TGV is that ultra-fast French train.
  I also recommend The Kiss and Other Movements, which was released on Virgin I believe, the design is similar to the old Greenaway soundtrack releases, and the price similarly low.
  As far as scores go, I realized I don't really have that many. I do have about 4 of the Greenaway scores, The Piano (signed by Nyman thanks to a friend in Bristol ), and Gattaca, which is nice but IMHO just slightly boring.
  I need more of course. Which more recent scores would you recommend?
  And regarding Glass...when Dennis Russell Davies was chief conductor of the Radio Symphony Orchestra Vienna, they performed quite a bit of Glass I think (they also recorded several of his symphonies). But that was all before I discovered that music, so I never attended any of these concerts either.
  Marian - who bought plenty of Glass and Nyman in London.
  songs from liquid days (Philip Glass) - what a nice coincidence.

[Morn 8]

Ahh, yes, this is a composer I ought to investigate more....

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

I LOVE THE PIANO!!!

That was one of the 1st scores I bought on CD in the early 90's (after I had most of my favorite Williams works available then that is).

However... I have heard nothing else of the guy!

[CYPHER 1]

A shame hardly anyone else here seems to be interested in Nyman.

I agree. However slowly but surely the posts seem to be trickling in. Chrusher says he owns a Nyman CD and I forsee Morn becoming a convert shortly ... Plus I seem to recall Peio being somewhat of a fan, but he doesn't seem to be posting here much lately.

Thanks for providing the details about those albums (and acronyms) Marian. I'll be sure to keep my eye open for them in the future.

Even though I have been listening to Michael Nyman's music for years now (usually from the radio and by keeping my ears open during the films), it has only been over the last six months that I have actually bought any of his albums. So at the moment I only own two of his CDs: the aformentioned The very best of Michael Nyman and Gattaca. I have yet to listen to The Piano as I am waiting to see the film first.

The "Best of" album does offer some great samples of the calibre of his more recent film scores, and I hope to get one or two of these soon. Of particular note are:

- The Claim, which contains some Morricone-inspired brass work and an astounding 9-minute long finale, dubbed my Nyman himself as his most "quasi-operatic" film cue to date.

- Wonderland - each of the main characters seems to have their own specially developed theme music, which is by turns moody, depressing and exhilarating. This is some excellent stuff.

- The End of the Affair - while some parts of this score do seem a little trite, the opening track "Diary of Hate" is one of my favourite Nyman cues, a brooding, achingly beautiful and exquisitely torturous piece.

- Practical Magic - Nyman's score for this film was rejected and replaced by Alan Silvestri's music, but two of Nyman's cues are available on some versions of the soundtrack release. The one I've heard, "Convening the Coven" is an absolute corker - as energetic and insanely vigorous as Philip Glass' best .

So which of the Greenaway scores do you own Marian?

CYPHER

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Chrusher says he owns a Nyman CD

True. But I'm sure many people have that CD and don't even know that Nyman wrote the music. This is the one CD that I wouldn't pick as an indication that somebody is really interested in anything else by the composer.

and I forsee Morn becoming a convert shortly ...

Perhaps. Through hard work on my part, that is. However I don't feel like ripping him my entire Nyman collection.

So at the moment I only own two of his CDs: the aformentioned The very best of Michael Nyman and Gattaca. I have yet to listen to The Piano as I am waiting to see the film first.

In this case, I still suggest getting the Live album. It's one of his best, a compilation without really being a compilation, because it's all selections performed at a concert (I usually don't like compilations). As I mentioned above, it has a great suite from The Piano.

I'll try to look into the ones you listed when I have some money.

So which of the Greenaway scores do you own Marian?

The Draughtsman's Contract - Probably the most famous one. Very minimalistic and often kinda weird, but great of course. It's based on pieces by Purcell (as Nyman confirms in his liner notes - one of the things I enjoy about him is that he nearly always writes his own, highly interesting, liner notes), on which Nyman wrote a theoretical article or book or something.

A Zed and Two Noughts - Similar to Draughtsman in these ways: Very minimalistic, very weird, great.

The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover - Very minimalistic, but mostly rather downbeat. Still good, but not as much fun to listen to as the others, IMHO. Also contains Memorial, of which I clearly prefer the so-called "remix" (seems to be just good remastering or something) on the Aet album. This piece features Sarah Leonard, a woman with such a high voice she sometimes sounds like a synth. Nyman has collaborated with her on other occasions as well, e.g. on The Kiss and Other Movements.

Drowning by Numbers - Quite minimalistic, Mozart-based, very nice. One or two bits remind me of Patrick Doyle, actually.

One short bit from Draughtsman was actually used as a signature piece on Austria's primary radio station for years.

And here's the great news (if it's true that is):

According to an Austrian news website, Michael Nyman is going to write a "Mozart opera" for Vienna, to be premiered in 2006 (Mozart year). The working title is said to be "Letters, riddles & writs".

Marian - who has recently heard his first Nyman opera (Facing Goya) and liked it a lot.

[Lurker 5]

I forsee Morn becoming a convert shortly ...  

Perhaps. Through hard work on my part, that is. However I don't feel like ripping him my entire Nyman collection.

Neil

[CYPHER 1]

Well that "Best of" album I've got has a few tracks from each of those Peter Greenaway scores you own Marian. I really like the Drowning by Numbers stuff esp. "Wheelbarrow Walk" which is just great fun. Both the tracks from The Draughtsman's Contract - "Chasing Sheep Is Best Left To Shepherds" and "An Eye For Optical Theory" - conclude with audience applause, so maybe they're from that Live album you mentioned? Definitely a concert performance anyway .

There's also a performance of "Memorial" in there too from The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & Her Lover. Admittedly I have only listened to it the one time, but I found to be a rather painful experience. There's good cacophony and there's bad cacophony, and I thought this was the latter. Still, I'm sure to give it a few more listens and I hope it grows on me.

Tell me, have you actually ever seen any of these Greenaway films? I certainly haven't and they definitely seem like an acquired taste. I've seen bits of The Pillow-Book but that's it.

As for those more recent soundtracks I mentioned I thought I should point out that I cannot strictly recommend the CDs themselves. I don't actually own them and although I have much confidence in them, I can't actually vouch for their length, sound quality, value for money etc. But I am certainly very impressed with the music I have heard .

CYPHER

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Both the tracks from The Draughtsman's Contract - "Chasing Sheep Is Best Left To Shepherds" and "An Eye For Optical Theory" - conclude with audience applause, so maybe they're from that Live album you mentioned? Definitely a concert performance anyway .

There's only one cue from Draughtsman on the Live album.

There's also a performance of "Memorial" in there too from The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & Her Lover. Admittedly I have only listened to it the one time, but I found to be a rather painful experience. There's good cacophony and there's bad cacophony, and I thought this was the latter. Still, I'm sure to give it a few more listens and I hope it grows on me.

There's not really much cacophony in that I believe. It's not like the Harpsichord Concerto, which at first stroke me as having unbearable cacophony, until it clicked. I still think it sounds horrible, but in a good way. It's amazing really. Kind of a head-banging harpsichord concerto. Still, I didn't really start liking Memorial until I heard the "remix". Which is why I can't tell for sure what the difference is, but as I said above, it seems to me that they just improved the sound quality - a lot.

Tell me, have you actually ever seen any of these Greenaway films? I certainly haven't and they definitely seem like an acquired taste. I've seen bits of The Pillow-Book but that's it.

Bits of Pillow Book and bits of Cook, Thief, Wife & Lover. I do want to see some of them though.

As for those more recent soundtracks I mentioned I thought I should point out that I cannot strictly recommend the CDs themselves. I don't actually own them and although I have much confidence in them, I can't actually vouch for their length, sound quality, value for money etc. But I am certainly very impressed with the music I have heard .

Well, I don't like compilations, and as I said above, pretty much everything Nyman does is good, and in most cases, it's very good. So I'll just pick them up as I find them when I have the money.

Marian - who wants to hear the Nyman Band live.

songs from liquid days (Philip Glass)

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Just in case a Nyman expert reads this (if so, then why haven't you posted here yet? 8O... is there a complete recording of Water Dances? There's two bits (I believe) of it on the Live CD and three on The Kiss and Other Movements (the albums share one movement, so this makes 4 movements in total), but according to Nyman's liner notes on the latter album, it's a 40 minute concert work (based on something he wrote for a Greenaway project). The Kiss album contains just about 14 movements of it....but those alone are enough to make the album a must-have. I'd love to get my hands on the full thing if it's available.

Marian - Nyman addict. 8O

Water Dances (Michael Nyman)

[Morn 8]

I forsee Morn becoming a convert shortly ...  

Perhaps. Through hard work on my part, that is. However I don't feel like ripping him my entire Nyman collection.

Neil

You know he wasn't making a joke.

[CYPHER 1]

It struck me the other day that I have seen very few of the films Michael Nyman has scored. I think the only three are Gattaca, Ravenous and The Claim. I thought the music worked splendidly well in Gattaca and there are some wickedly enjoyable passages in Ravenous (co-written with Damon Albarn of Blur fame[?]). His score for The Claim has got some great stuff, but it didn't help my enjoyment of that particular film. What I've seen of Michael Winterbottom's work is not my cup of tea.

Obviously I would like to see more of the films Nyman has scored. Especially the Peter Greenaway stuff. But these films aren't readily available here. Clearly Nyman's work stands up incredibly well on its own because it has such a formidable presence, but it'd be nice to see how his music functions in the context of the films for which it is written. Thoughts Marian, anyone?

CYPHER

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

I think I've only seen The Piano and Gattaca, and in both the scores work marvellously. At the same time, Nyman seems to very much try and give his scores a lot of structure. Many of his score cues are "available" in concert form as simple rearrangements for the Michael Nyman Band I believe, without any structural changes.

Marian - who went through the "works" list on Nyman's website yesterday and discovered there's enough stuff for many more years of discovery.

[CYPHER 1]

And many more years of paying off credit card debt I'm sure . But that is still encouraging news of course .

So what's the deal with the Michael Nyman Band do you know? And the Michael Nyman Orchestra (which has performed most of his recent scores)? Is it the one bunch of musicians who follow Nyman around everywhere and only play his stuff? How frequently would it's membership change I wonder? And do you think Nyman performs often with any other musical ensemble or does he generally just use his own posse so to speak? I guess when you've got your own private band, I wouldn't see the point of branching out ...

CYPHER

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Just read everything about it here.

The most interesting part concerning the and assembly:

When - for various reasons - the early music instruments were replaced by modern equivalents, the Campiello Band became the amplified Michael Nyman Band with the 'standard' line-up of string quartet, three saxophones, bass trombone, bass guitar and piano.  

The voices of Sarah Leonard (Memorial) or Hilary Summers (The Diary of Anne Frank, Six Celan Songs and Cycle of Disquietude premièred at EXPO '98) are added as occasion demands. For 3 Quartets the Michael Nyman Band is modified by the addition of an extra saxophone and trumpet and the omission of piano and bass guitar. The dynamic piece, MGV, places the band in a full orchestral context.

Marian - wondering about The Philip Glass Ensemble.

Kullervo (Jean Sibelius)

[CYPHER 1]

A ha! Thanks Marian .

I liked this bit:

This imaginary Venetian street band uniquely used early music/folk instruments alongside modern instruments, so that rebecs and curtals were combined with saxophone and banjo to produce as loud a sound as possible without resorting to amplification.

and

The Michael Nyman Band exists in two forms (all instruments amplified)

This certainly goes some way towards explaining how Nyman manages to capture that brilliantly LOUD sound of his.

CYPHER - celebrating his 600th post (and it's in a thread he started too)! 8O

[Jeshopk 8]

I am not a fan of Nyman, but I liked Gattaca a bit. My main problem is the repetition. I'm not a minimalism fan. He's not big into phrasing.

[CYPHER 1]

I can certainly undertand why some people dislike Nyman's music. It's a somewhat acquired and peculiar taste. I also think this accounts for why Michael Nyman so infrequently scores films with larger audiences and therefore why fewer people have heard of him. Many film makers simply aren't willing to take the risk.

Just looking through his recent and current projects over at imdb.com speaks volumes about the films he scores - many of these movies are either unreleased here or, well... French . But The Assassination of Richard Nixon starring Sean Penn, Naomi Watts and Don Cheadle sounds intriguing.

Ultimately I'm not concerned about the type of films Nyman scores. I just see there being a link between the popularity of the film and the availability of his scores, hence I'm more likely to find them on the shelf.

Anyway, this discussion seems pretty dead at the moment. Thanks for your contributions everyone, especially Marian, and lets promise to come back and post here the next time we hear some more Nyman music we want to discuss, okay?

CYPHER

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Lets promise to come back and post here the next time we hear some more Nyman music we want to discuss, okay?

It's not new Nyman music, but it still made me remember your post: I just noticed that the official Nyman homepage now has a set of message boards. Seems pretty interesting. And they don't even seem to have a problem with discussing bootlegs there, even though it's the official site.

Marian -

[Lurker 5]

"SheriffJoe" must not be there yet.

Neil

[CYPHER 1]

Yeah, I looked at the Michael Nyman messageboards back when I started this topic. There only seemed to be about 20 posts! Quite disgraceful when you compare it with this board, isn't it? I'll check it out again one of these days - I have a few ideas for possible threads...

CYPHER

[Hlao-roo 389]

 

In her latest release, the Ukrainian-born pianist Valentina Lisitsa performs piano pieces culled from the film scores of Michael Nyman--including, of course, The Piano. Listen to the full album, courtesy of NPR.

 

The music on Chasing Pianos unfolds like a 78-minute solo piano suite, launched with the rolling, sweepingly romantic arpeggios of "The Heart Asks Pleasure First," the irresistible theme from The Piano. The music covers a broad range of moods and styles. "Sheep and Tides," from Greenaway's Drowning by Numbers — the entire score for which is based on Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante — sports a cheery, lilting, Poulenc-style waltz. "Why?" from an animated version of The Diary of Anne Frank is built from a gorgeous pop-like hook Radiohead would be proud to call its own, and "Diary of Love," from Neil Jordan's The End of the Affair, croons like a slow song without words.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

I love "Gatacca": a great score, from a very "human" film, and my favourite Nyman work, to boot.

Did anyone hear the week-long retrospective on BBC Radio 3, last week, in celebration of his 70th birthday?

P.s. does anyone know why Nyman did not score "Belly Of An Architect", or Greenaway's later films?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Yes. Forgot how enjoyable 'Memorial' is. Kurt Weill on roids.

[Images 1]

MGV (+ Draughtsman's contract) is my favourite Nyman ever

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Would have liked to hear what he came up with for Oldboy.

[Omen II 1,235]

Michael Nyman is apparently writing a symphony in memory of the Hillsborough disaster, to be premiered in Liverpool of course.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-26943834

It must be quite a challenge to create music that recalls a real life disaster that happened in recent living memory.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Yet another reworking of Memorial? I wasn't aware he'd already done 10 symphonies though.

[nightscape94 965]

Not overly familiar with Nyman, but I did like portions of Gattaca, like The Departure.

[publicist 4,643]

MGV (+ Draughtsman's contract) is my favourite Nyman ever

 

 

 

[Hlao-roo 389]

MGV (+ Draughtsman's contract) is my favourite Nyman ever

Finally got around to listening to this. Such a joyous work!

[A24 4,330]

Today I saw the soundtrack of Gattaca for 6.99 Euro! Of all the CDs I saw today, this was the one I wanted the most, but I left the store without buying a thing. Might go back for it.

 

 

 

Alex

[KK 3,307]

Good score, that one.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I prefer TFA!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Fools!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

On 31/03/2014 at 9:37 PM, Richard said:

I love "Gatacca": a great score, from a very "human" film, and my favourite Nyman work, to boot.

Does anyone know why Nyman did not score "Belly Of An Architect", or Greenaway's later films?

 

2 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

Today I saw the soundtrack of Gattaca for 6.99 Euro! Of all the CDs I saw today, this was the one I wanted the most, but I left the store without buying a thing. Might go back for it.

 

 

 

Alex

 

Buy it, Alex, it's a very good score.