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Butchered Cues...


King Mark
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This is not about Williams habit of assembling tracks from different cues in different parts of a movie.

It's about glaring deliberate deletions WITHIN a cue.

Ok,first picture this...

You just saw Star Wars,and you really digged the End Credits suite,so you rush to buy the soundtrack.You then proceed to listen to Throne Room and End Crefits,and after the last note of the Throne Room music,the part of Luke's Theme that opens the credits is missing,and a weird edit leads directly into the part of the Rebel Fanfare...ok so you say it's only a few seconds...well it doesn't matter ,the cue is ruined for all practical purpose.

You know what I'm getting at ....the PoA credits...Movie ends,then there's the Double Trouble passage in major mode that's missing from the soundtrack.WHY THE HELL DID THEY EDIT OUT!???

OKOK,so the point is,maybe your favourite cue isn't on the album,that's life,it happens,there's so much music that they can put on there bla bla bla...BUT what the hell is this when they SURGICALLY REMOVE the best part of a cue,anyone sees any kind of twisted logic in this????Like duuh,the album is 15 seconds too long,lets remove the climactic bars of it,those Williams fans will have to buy the DVD if they want the complete cue.

K.M. :mrgreen:

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This really bugs me too. One that comes to mind is the removal of the statement of the Emperor's Theme from the AOTC finale. An extra what, 20 seconds? The Library Scene cue from HP:SS/PS is another one. 3 minutes on the CD, a good 6 in the film. The LOTR OSTs are loaded with this issue too. Editing from the middle of cues for the CD is just EVIL. EEEEEEEEEEVIL!

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The LOTR OSTs are loaded with this issue too.

Yeah,lucky I'm not a real fan or i'd be REALLY pissed off they removed the choral arrangement of the Fellowship theme smack in the middle of The Black Gate Opens.

Is it just me or it's "newer" issue.I mean before either you got the cue or not,or just the ends truncated,but the middle?(especially a clear highlight),or in this case, only a few measures,but the best measures of the entire score.

K.M.

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Yeah,lucky I'm not a real fan or i'd be REALLY pissed off they removed the choral arrangement  of the Fellowship theme smack in the middle of The Black Gate Opens.

K.M.

The one that really burns me are the statements of the Ring theme (the best theme in the trilogy) that have been removed from the Prolouge on the CD of Fellowship (the best score of the trilogy). Still, at least we know that we're getting complete releases of those soon. They're something to be said of being popular. Overrated, but popular.

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Belly of the Steel Beast.

Marian - :|

:( Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

Good example too. But that middle section that is edited out of the OST was added late, so maybe the CD was already locked? Plus, at least we got a whole cue that ended up being unused in the film.

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Plus, at least we got a whole cue that ended up being unused in the film.

Which cue would that be? "Belly of the Steel Beast" is certainly used in the film.

Neil

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Plus, at least we got a whole cue that ended up being unused in the film.

Which cue would that be? "Belly of the Steel Beast" is certainly used in the film.

Neil

Keeping Up with the Joneses

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One that comes to mind is the removal of the statement of the Emperor's Theme from the AOTC finale. An extra what, 20 seconds?

Yeah, absolutely. I can't think of any reason not to include the Emperor's theme.

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I almost cried when I realised Sirius Escapes was truncated out of the Finale.  

Yeah, that whole sequence with Buckbeak flying them to the tower and Sirius being broken out . . . its inclusion would've made a longer, more fulfilling finale for the album.

Ray Barnsbury

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BTW,i just edited togheter an approximate Film Version the beginning of Mischief Managed and made a 45 second MP3..for anyone who wants it....it's closer to what we should have had.Now that I saw the movie I can confirm the missing music is from the PoA ABC special I recorded,so I edited the unreleased clip together with the c.d. track.(it's the music when the credits says "Directed by Alfonso Cuaron")

K.M.First to reconstruct a film cue.

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The entire friggin Ultimate edition of The Phantom Menace. No, not because of the multiple stretched out and looped crap edits, but like this thread asked, more of the dozens and dozens of butchered cues. Really, when you listen carefully to the cd-that-is-really-an-isolated-soundtrack-of-the-movie-without-sfx-and-dialogue, there's plenty of passages where little singular notes are smalishly cropped or edited out, or two notes are simply compressed closer to another, so that it's better edited inside the movie. What a crappy listening experience.

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The Quidditch music is definitely edited, though I wouldn't have noticed had I been unfamiliar with the cue. And the snippets of the past theme on horn are not in the film version of The Dementors Converge. Also KM, I'd love to hear the end credits edit you made.

Ray Barnsbury

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I thought it was just a tracked in version of Buckbeak's Flight....Must see again!

Justin - Who didn't really notice it being all that diffrent from Buckbeak's Flight... :)

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It's mostly the same as Bickbeak's Flight, only slightly altered. I found nothing there that really bugged me being missing not already available in Buckbeak's Flight.

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The Quidditch music is definitely edited, though I wouldn't have noticed had I been unfamiliar with the cue.  

The only thing I noticed in there is a different version of the short "Sirius/Grim" motive that's quite loud in horns on the cd, and somewhat more subdued in the film as Harry sees the Grim shaped cloud. Not sure wether the CD version of the motive comes somewhere else in the film scene.

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BUT what the hell is this when they SURGICALLY REMOVE the best part of a cue,anyone sees any kind of twisted logic in this????

what immediately comes to my mind here, is the original album version of "Rouge City" from A.I. There's a build-up in the middle going nowhere. A jarring edit, and already it dwindles down into nothing. The only reason I can think of this is Williams not wanting to have another composer's music on the cd (the Strauss quote). But the cue on the promo is so much more magnificent, and awesome.

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Sorry,but I cannot tolerate that they leave Williams best writing off the OST.

the Mischief Managed and Sirius Escape are just 2 example,it's basically like someone went out of his way to remove those passages.They could have easlily been let where they were.

The third example is The Patronus Lesson.We appear to have the first part,the chorus stuff,but than it fades into nothingness,instead of segeing into the full chior with the incredible brass/trumpet version of the Past theme weaved in(that was THE goosebump moment of the film IMO,the "Yoda Lifts the X-Wing" of this score :thumbup:

Maybe it's just me,but you can remove parts of action cues and I don't really mind,they could have chopped 3 minutes off the middle part of "Saving Bucbeak" when that 2 note motif plays on and on,and I wouldn' care but DO NOT mess with heroic/sweeping/glorious renditions of themes.

For these reasons I cannot deem this an excellent abum(though it's an excellent score),even if it has "most" of the important cues.

K.M.

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To get the definitive opinion on butchered cues we must go straight to the foremost expert on this matter!

What do you think sir:

d31_feat01.jpg

I think everything I do to John Williams music is brilliant. Just like everything else I do. You lower lifeforms can only observe but never understand.

Well folks ........... there you have it! End of discussion! :thumbup:

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You see,i think it's possible to make a very acceptable 1 c.d. release,it only seems the guys making editing them have another agenda than one of us would have.

For example.the ONLY reason I can think of why E.T. is Dying is still an alternate on the 25th an, edition,is that the dude editing FORGOT,or DOESN'T KNOW.I bet those guys mixing the albums don't even get into the scores in such detail as we do.

K.M.

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I HATE when this is done on soundtracks. WHY???

Some tracks on different soundtrack I think suffer from this the most -

Edward Scissorhands - The Final Confrontation - It nearly runs double the amount of time in the movie. And it's brilliant! The CD is only 50 minutes long. Why??

Spider-Man - One of the reasons I think this score has such a bad rap is because of the lackluster choice of tracks for the soundtrack. "Parade Attack" and "The Final Confrontation" are severely butchered of some of the best music in the movie. The track where Peter first climbs the wall is not there at all. CD runs 45 minutes. Again, why??

Lost World - Rescuing Sarah - Need I say more?

Last Crusade - Belly of the Steel Beast already mentioned.

There are MANY more I'm forgetting, but can't think of. I'll never know why it's done. Soundtrack producers obviously are evil. ;)

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  • 4 weeks later...

I only must say this: FUCK EDITS! I HATE THESE FUCKIN' EDITS! Wouldn't it be easier to put on CD the tracks as they were recorded?!? "oh, so you got a better listening experience" they say...FUCK THE LISTENING EXPERIENCE!! I don't want to have a 3 minute track on CD and realize the film version is 5 or 6 minutes. I think who do the OST CDs should put the entire tracks as they were originally recorded, without edits, so we can listen to the same music on CD as in the film. I prefer a "bad listening experience" with the original music, instead of a "better listening experience" with half CD filled with alternative versions...

:mrgreen: TJ - who thinks listening to JW music is always a good "listening experience"

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Isnt there a cue in Home Alone 2 ( i think with vocals - not sure dont have my cds with me)

where one of the brass players makes the most obvious split note.

anyone know that one?

also there are lots of wrong notes and splits in the original Jaws release - it was fixed in future releases

Also one of the original STAR WARS trilogy CDs contain a horn split when they are playing the tune in the end credits

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