Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Morlock

Rosewood

Recommended Posts

I know there've been a few threads like this before, but I really want to hear what everyone thinks of this score. It's not one that comes up too often.

I personaly think the score is very good, one of Williams' most authentic sounding ones. Not that other weren't, but he really delved into that specific genre's world, and at least to me, it really seemed to come from his gut, as if he knew the area and Rosewood so well.

Although I'd love to see Williams conduct all his scores, this is one of the ones I'd most like to have been at the recording sessions. I could imagine how energized he'd be, and how he'd even dance at some parts (like he's done in some of the 4th of July concerts).

For me, the highlights of the album are the choir tracks. Those three songs (Look Down Lord, Light My Way and Freedom Train) sound so astonishingly like real pieces that communities in the Sound would have been singing for decades (well, not so much Look Down Lord, but the other two). I think the power of the choir in Freedom Train is probably more than any other JW choir piece. It's such a glorious, unrestrained and, again, authentic sounding piece.

I think this score deserves more attention then it's been getting, it was overshadowed by the two other ethnic scores that year (7 Years in Tibet and Amistad).

IMO it's one of the 6 scores from the 95'-97' period that really had JW exploring new territory, and although the scores themselves may not always have been great, the creativity in that period really reinvented JW, and IMO revitalized him for his amazing output from TPM that's still going strong today (Not without missteps, but overall...).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's certainly one of my favorite Williams scores for the reasons you stated and one of his best output from the '90s and the past ten years. I liked how he revisited his early '70s period with that grand, classy style that would eventually evolve into the sound that he's known for today. He also did evoke some of the "Negro spirituals" that probably came from his arranging days for Mahalia Jackson and others.

Some guy (I forgot his name--maybe he posts here?) reviewed it for Film Score Monthly several years ago and was so impressed, he gave it four-and-a-half stars. I think in that same issue, Lukas gave it very favorable comments, too. He said something to the effect about it being some of the best "black" music written by a white man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, I certainly won't miss a chance to praise Rosewood. 8O As I just said yesterday in another thread, I think it's one of Williams' very best "non-conventional" scores. And while the spirituals are great, my favourite bits are the guitar solos.

I really should play it more often. It's also one of the very best recorded Williams scores, and awesome-sounding HDCD, thanks to Dennis Sands. Perfect demo material.

Marian - who must read more Pratchett.

:) The Fall of Icarus (Michael Nyman)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a wonderful score. Freedom Train is great but wasn't used in the movie. The director apparently had him write another one for the culminating scene (Light my Way). I can say pretty confidently that if JW had had his way he would not have scored this crucial scene with a spiritual, although Freedom Train would have been an improvement. I thought it was an uncharacteristically bad fit for an otherwsie great score. But at least that means we got several spirituals on the soundtrack.

I like the deep south feel which is even incorporated into the love theme in track 11. I also like the bluesy piano version of the main theme which ends the movie in a classy way. And the other aspects that people have mentioned.

- Adam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:) I read Good Omens again every few months. It's just one of those books that I can't get enough of (Just finished the great Guns of The South again)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This movie was on the Spanish channel the other day, and I loved watching it again. As I boned up on my Spanish, I relived the wonderful score moments, from "Look Down, Lord" to "the scene where Mann is lynched to "The Dogs Hunt" to the love theme.

Very much an underrated score. And I agree that it must have been interesting to see Williams conduct this score.

Jeff -- who wished this score had been nominated for an Oscar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw this thread and pulled out my "Greatest Hits" CD to hear "Look Down, Lord...." (the only part of Rosewood I own) - I had never heard of the movie before I got this CD a few years ago and was shocked to see it wasn't a Cowboys-era score! The similarities are striking. Now I'll have to buy the soundtrack, I guess - "Look Down, Lord" is wonderful, as I was just reminded a few minutes ago.

SeekUYoda, who hopes to win JFK on eBay today!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SeekUYoda, who hopes to win JFK on eBay today!

Good luck! You are probably aware of this already, but if not, Dale Clevenger is the soloist on the Mozart Concerto #2 for Horn and Orchestra segment included on the disc. :P

Kathy, who needs to relisten to Rosewood.

:) The Terminal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"The Hounds of Sumner" is an amazing cue with the aggressive strings and mouth harp (or at least that's what I think it is) with the orchestra also hinting at the "Look Down, Lord" theme to signify the struggle from the lynch mob.

The movie is pretty good, based on a true story. But the subject matter and the limited appeal this kind of movie might have be why it didn't do well as it should have and one reason why an expanded soundtrack might not happen any time soon. Oprah Winfrey did profile the movie when it came out with Singleton and the cast members and, if I recall, also descendents from the event.

The score was certainly more Oscar worthy than anything else he did that year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SeekUYoda' date=' who hopes to win JFK on eBay today![/quote']

Good luck! You are probably aware of this already' date=' but if not, Dale Clevenger is the soloist on the Mozart Concerto #2 for Horn and Orchestra segment included on the disc. :thumbup:

Kathy, who needs to relisten to [i']Rosewood.

I think Clavenger does a good job on that recording...(not as good as our fellow canadian horn player James Somerville,who is now now principal in BSO... ;) But if you want to listen to good solo stuff by a guy who played all the major soundtracks for Williams...and most of the good Horner stuff...i name Maurice Murphy,pricinpal trumpet of LSO for many years.JW has even required him for AOTC even if he had retired.He has(old one) a solo recording with major trumpet concertis...and it sounds amazing...my only regret is that he didn't record JW trumpet concerto...would have been fantastic.

Regards

Richard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OK...i think i screwed up with the quote thingie....but i'm sure you all got the point

Richard

Wouldn't it just be easier to edit the post instead of pointing out that a mistake was made?

Neil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think Clavenger does a good job on that recording...(not as good as our fellow canadian horn player James Somerville,who is now now principal in BSO... ;) But if you want to listen to good solo stuff by a guy who played all the major soundtracks for Williams...and most of the good Horner stuff...i name Maurice Murphy,pricinpal trumpet of LSO for many years.JW has even required him for AOTC even if he had retired.He has(old one) a solo recording with major trumpet concertis...and it sounds amazing...my only regret is that he didn't record JW trumpet concerto...would have been fantastic.

Regards

Richard

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check into it. :mrgreen:

Are you planning to attend the Tanglewood concerts to hear James Somerville solo in Williams Horn Concerto? Both SeekUYoda and I attended the CSO concerts last fall and heard Dale Clevenger in the world premiere. The JFK Suite was also performed that night and is one of the reasons why I particularly enjoy having Dale Clevenger's performance of part of the Mozart concerto on the JFK disc.

Now, getting back to Rosewood ...

It isn't one I listen to often but I did play it again last night, and wondered why I don't play it more often. The music is deeply moving and heartfelt, and there is a sense of authenticity to it that increases the emotional impact. Along with the spirituals already mentioned, I was especially moved by the title music.

Kathy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have loved to go hear Jamie play the Williams...i'm in Halifax,short flight...interesting idea.I played for one season in the same orchestra as Jamie,i had a one year assitant principal trumpet job with the Montreal symphony orchestra,and he was associate horn.

I might look into getting a ticket for that concert...i have a free flight to Boston from Halifax with Air Canada.. :mrgreen:

Richard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm affraid to report that i won't be able to go....i have a gig on that day...more money to buy JW stuff... :P But i wish i asked Jamie for his part of the Williams concerto when he was in Halifax a couple of weeks ago... banghead Even if i'm a trumpet player...

Richard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Thanks for the recommendation.  I'll check into it. :P

Are you planning to attend the Tanglewood concerts to hear James Somerville solo in Williams Horn Concerto?  Both SeekUYoda and I attended the CSO concerts last fall and heard Dale Clevenger in the world premiere.  The JFK Suite was also performed that night and is one of the reasons why I particularly enjoy having Dale Clevenger's performance of part of the Mozart concerto on the JFK disc.

Now, getting back to Rosewood ...  

It isn't one I listen to often but I did play it again last night, and wondered why I don't play it more often.  The music is deeply moving and heartfelt, and there is a sense of authenticity to it that increases the emotional impact.  Along with the spirituals already mentioned, I was especially moved by the title music.

Kathy

Now,getting back to the Horn Concerto.

Your gonna record it this time,right?

K.M.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now,getting back to the Horn Concerto.

Your gonna record it this time,right?

K.M.

LOL

This again?

But K.M. ... I thought we agreed that this time you were going to go to Tanglewood, record the concerto, and send it to me. :(

Getting back to Rosewood ...

I'm not attracked to Rosewood. Can't say why, but I'll give it another listen now.

Alex, you might be pleasantly surprised. I think this score deserves reappraisal from time to time. A few years ago I didn't appreciate it as much as I do now. Even if you bypass the spirituals (since you've mentioned that you aren't fond of songs), the score has plenty of beautiful, emotional moments.

Kathy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kathy, with songs I meant Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Phil Collins kinda songs.

I do like songs for choruses like 'Double Trouble' (J. Williams) and 'Toward the Unknown Region' (Vaughan Williams). I'm impressed that Williams wrote such authentic-sounding spirituals for Rosewood but I'm not sure if it's something for me.

----------------

Alex Cremers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Point taken. :)

There is a wealth of difference between songs that are germane to a film and those that are tacked onto the end just to increase the popularity of a score. One of my very favorite choral songs is "Non Nobis Domine" from Henry V (P. Doyle).

Kathy

:) Suite from Scott of the Antarctic (R. Vaughan Williams)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, that's one that seems to stick with most people I know who've seen the film. I also love Doyle's 'Sigh No More' and 'Pardon Goddess of The Night' from Much Ado About Nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, that's one that seems to stick with most people I know who've seen the film. I also love Doyle's 'Sigh No More' and 'Pardon Goddess of The Night' from Much Ado About Nothing.

Have you not seen Henry V? "Non Nobis, Domine" is beautiful when heard outside the film but devastatingly effective when seen/heard in context.

Patrick Doyle seems to include songs quite often, and along with the ones you have already mentioned, I am also fond of "Kindle My Heart" (A Little Princess), "She Was A Real Lion" (Secondhand Lions) and "In Pace" (Hamlet).

Kathy, also not quite sure where to draw the line between song and chorus ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today I listened to Rosewood again and discovered a nice little tender track called 'Scrappie and Mann Bond'. It's the first one I truly like although my appreciation for 'Look Down, Lord' is growing with each listening.

Somewhere there's a theme that reminds me a bit of Far and Away. It's in 'Rosewood' (track 1) around the 2:00 mark and then it reprises around 3:00. What do you think?

----------------

Alex Cremers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Patrick Doyle seems to include songs quite often

And occasionally likes to sing them himself as well. :thumbup:

and along with the ones you have already mentioned, I am also fond of "Kindle My Heart" (A Little Princess), "She Was A Real Lion" (Secondhand Lions) and "In Pace" (Hamlet).

There's also a song in Sense and Sensibility and something that might be classified as a song or a chorus in Est-Ouest.

Marian - who likes Doyle's acting roles in Branagh's movies. :)

:) Alien³ (Elliot Goldenthal)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, that's one that seems to stick with most people I know who've seen the film. I also love Doyle's 'Sigh No More' and 'Pardon Goddess of The Night' from Much Ado About Nothing.

Have you not seen Henry V? "Non Nobis, Domine" is beautiful when heard outside the film but devastatingly effective when seen/heard in context.

Of course I have! I was pointing out that even friends and relatives who have seen the film and otherwise wouldn't remember anything about the music, remembered the track and even a big part fo the words.

And Alex, I don't here any Far and Away, but there ae those who don't here Hook in Across The Stars, so who knows?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Somewhere there's a theme that reminds me a bit of Far and Away. It's in 'Rosewood' (track 1) around the 2:00 mark and then it reprises around 3:00. What do you think?

Alex, I've listened to Far And Away and haven't been able to locate the specific theme you mentioned. It does sound familiar though. I think the harmonica and fiddle have an almost Celtic sound during that section and that the combination of notes has the same feel as some of the music in Far And Away. I'm glad you gave it another listen and found some music that you enjoyed.

 

Patrick Doyle seems to include songs quite often

And occasionally likes to sing them himself as well. :thumbup:

Yeah Marian! I thought I remembered that you were another big Doyle fan. Yes, not only does Doyle sing on some of the recordings, but he also gets his children involved, his daughter in A Little Princess and his son in Secondhand Lions.

Have you not seen Henry V? "Non Nobis, Domine" is beautiful when heard outside the film but devastatingly effective when seen/heard in context.

Of course I have!

Morlock, I need not tell you this, but there are many people who haven't seen Henry V. I'm glad to know that you're not one of them. :)

Kathy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alex, I've listened to Far And Away and haven't been able to locate the specific theme you mentioned. It does sound familiar though. I think the harmonica and fiddle have an almost Celtic sound during that section and that the combination of notes has the same feel as some of the music in Far And Away.

That's what I mean. I think nobody would object if this bit appeared on Far And Away.

----------------

Alex Cremers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah Marian!  I thought I remembered that you were another big Doyle fan.  Yes, not only does Doyle sing on some of the recordings, but he also gets his children involved, his daughter in A Little Princess and his son in Secondhand Lions.

Now this I didn't know!

Marian - who hasn't heard a new Doyle score since Est-Ouest. :thumbup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Morlock, I need not tell you this, but there are many people who haven't seen Henry V.  I'm glad to know that you're not one of them. ;)

Kathy

Kathy, which Henry V are you talking about? Is this the Branagh Henry V?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes SeekUYoda, I was referring to the Branagh Henry V and the wonderful Doyle music, but I also love the Olivier version with the equally magnificent Walton music. ;)

Kathy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah Marian!  I thought I remembered that you were another big Doyle fan.  Yes, not only does Doyle sing on some of the recordings, but he also gets his children involved, his daughter in A Little Princess and his son in Secondhand Lions.

Now this I didn't know!

Marian - who hasn't heard a new Doyle score since Est-Ouest. :(

I've heard Gosford Park and Secondhands Lions. While I'm not a fan of the latter, the former works very well if you like the movie (together with those fun Ivor Novello/ Jeremy Northam songs ;)).

I really want to hear East-West.

And as I said I would a couple of months ago, I did indeed order Dead Again :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've heard Gosford Park and Secondhands Lions. While I'm not a fan of the latter, the former works very well if you like the movie (together with those fun Ivor Novello/ Jeremy Northam songs ;)).

Ah well, tastes differ. ;)

I love Secondhand Lions, especially Doyle's swashbuckling homage to Korngold (as he has himself said in interviews) and don't listen to Gosford Park very much. Calendar Girls has some beautiful moments as well, but has a lot of non-Doyle songs taking up space on the CD. :(

And as I said I would a couple of months ago, I did indeed order Dead Again :)

LOL

I also picked up Dead Again last fall based on Marian's advice and love it!

Kathy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't pick it up based on his advice, we just discussed it a couple of months ago (after I saw the movie again), and I said i would pick it up once I could find it. I got it used off Amazon (couldn't find a new one anywhere).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry about that, Morlock.

Marian, I was giving you extra credit. :)

I did pick it up based on Marian's advice. It had been too long since I'd last seen the movie and couldn't remember the music.

Anyway, thanks Marian! ;)

Kathy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

;) Now order the DVD, too. :(

Yes SeekUYoda, I was referring to the Branagh Henry V and the wonderful Doyle music, but I also love the Olivier version with the equally magnificent Walton music. :)

I've seen the Olivier version two years ago or so, and turned it off after the first half. Perhaps it was just the downright horrible German dub (one of the worst I've seen, and that's saying something), but I think there's more to why I didn't like it at all. It seemed so...strange, and uninvolving. And I didn't like Olivier's cuts (cutting the hanging because the movie was intended as a morale booster for British soldiers?)

(Incidentally, the French king had the same dubbing voice as Yoda, and the German translation made his sentences sound like Yoda's, too... LOL )

I watched Olivier's Hamlet a few months later, and enjoyed that a lot.

Marian - still waiting for a DVD release of Branagh's Hamlet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found Olivier's Henry to be Shakespeare lite. His main goal was to popularize Shakespeare, and to bring him to larger conciousness, so his movies stress cohesiveness for the modern audience more than anything (that's how I find it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep in mind the movies were made in very different eras. Olivier made his film in 1944 during the middle of WWII and wanted to appeal to the popular audience and their sense of patriotism, so yes, he did cut parts out, and simplified the language. When Branagh made his film in 1989 the state of the world was very different than it had been in 1944 and he depicted much more realism in both dialect and the brutality of war. I personally find Branagh's performance more moving on a purely emotional basis (especially the St. Crispian's Day speech), but I also appreciate Olivier's less emotional, but equally masterful performance.

Kathy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone who likes the score to "Much Ado About Nothing", is okay in my book. I think, Patrick Doyle is one of the most under-rated and under-appreciated composers working in film today. Henry V is just brilliant, as is Dead Again...

Sigh no more, ladies

Sigh no more

Men were decievers ever;

One foot on sea

And one on shore

To one thing constant never

Then, sigh not so

But let them go

And be you blithe and bonnie

Converting all your sounds of woe

to Hey-Nonny-Nonny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...