Jump to content

Should Williams end his collaboration with Spielberg?


King Mark
 Share

Should Williams dump spielberg  

39 members have voted

  1. 1.

    • yes
      4
    • no
      35


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 92
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

And I also think that it's high time we let the monkeys in our parliaments...

Please refrain from making any political comments, whether they appear to be humorous or not.

Neil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I also think that it's high time we let the monkeys in our parliaments...

Please refrain from making any political comments, whether they appear to be humorous or not.

Neil

Ah yes sorry - it wasn't intended as a political comment.

Won't do that again I promise :devil:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... if Williams had scored Spiderman 2,we'd have about 20 threads about it.

If Williams had scored Spiderman 2, I might actually give a damn about that movie. Spiderman was massively overrated.

John- preparing to duck. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean, even to the untrained ear, Zimmer's scores do all sound practically the same, hardly innovative or evocative beyond the service for the particular scene in a film.

Hahah, reminds me of one time when my Zimmer-fan friend had Gladiator playing after the school production. A group of about five teens our age walked past and were saying "Isn't this the Lion King?"; "No, it's from The Rock" etc. I think one even mentioned The Planets. Nedless to say, when the uninvited dialogue made its appearence on the CD they were set straight.

And no, Williams should not end the collaboration. As countless others are saying, they bring out the best in each other. Except Hook, while it was a brilliant score I have no idea what Spielberg was thinking. I tell you, it's a good thing Williams had written a lot of the themes for the score before he actually wrote the score (he would have had heaps of material from the musical he and Spielberg were planning), otherwise it would have been hard to score that tripe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't mind it.  Although I prefer The Hulk.  And I prefer Elfman's Hulk score to SPiderman too.

The Hulk makes Spiderman look like a good movie. And I won't comment on the merits of either score, as they have none.

John- still on the cusp of ducking. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have to appreciate this time we're living right now where we have a future Spielberg/Williams collaboration, as this I think is already the most important in film history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right on Hector.

Hahah, reminds me of one time when my Zimmer-fan friend had Gladiator playing after the school production. A group of about five teens our age walked past and were saying "Isn't this the Lion King?"; "No, it's from The Rock" etc. I think one even mentioned The Planets. Nedless to say, when the uninvited dialogue made its appearence on the CD they were set straight.

I know what you mean, and it's funny, but in all fairness ignoramuses will act as such no matter whose music they're listening to. Just take the example in Boston that Neil related: a guy mentioned Star Wars and E.T. before finally correctly concluding that Williams was conducting music from Raiders.

Ray Barnsbury

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spider-Man was a lousy film.

Neil

yep, or overrated.

Hulk was simple horrible in everyway a film can be horrible(except the score which I don't remember at all).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(!!!Fans of Hans Zimmer's music are strongly advised against reading the following post!!!)

I hope Spielberg won't decide to collaborate with Zimmer in the future. I have also never heard or read of any hints that would suggest that Spielberg has a "hidden" liking for Zimmer's scores.

I mean, even to the untrained ear, Zimmer's scores do all sound practically the same, hardly innovative or evocative beyond the service for the particular scene in a film. He writes the loudest synthesized stuff I have heard and even if he occasionally lets the "living" orchestra perform it, it still sounds synthetic (Gladiator, Black Hawk Down,...). I presume Zimmer would have made a better living writing pop or techno music as he can write catchy themes, perhaps they could be a good team with Moby, of whom Zimmer's music reminds me the most.

The stuff he wrote that sounds quite good is a copycat off classical pieces and his "own" unique sound is like an overture to a techno party frenzy.

I can't understand what would it be Spielberg would have liked about Hans Zimmer's music. Williams' is his exact opposite in any thinkable angle so I think Steven was just joking suppose he'd ever mentioned Zimmer as is future collaborator.

Even the composers who write music I don't listen to usually spice up the world with something of some kind of interesting, but not so much is this the case with Zimmer, though.

The true sign that you haven't heard very much Zimmer.

It's a pretty wellknown fact that Spielberg was/is a great fan of Zimmer, I think he loved the score for Crimson Tide.

Also Zimmer is the head of the music dept. at Dreamworks which is co-owned and founded by Spielberg.

And Zimmer scored the first Dreamworks film, The Peacemaker.

Spielberg is indeed a huge Zimmer fan. All 3 Dreamworkers are great friends with him. I still don't have a clue why he is the head of the department and not Williams though.

Hahah, reminds me of one time when my Zimmer-fan friend had Gladiator playing after the school production. A group of about five teens our age walked past and were saying "Isn't this the Lion King?"; "No, it's from The Rock" etc. I think one even mentioned The Planets. Nedless to say, when the uninvited dialogue made its appearence on the CD they were set straight.

So? 5 year olds ain't exactly good judges. My cousin is sure E.T. is a rip off of Raiders because the fanfare at the end is a copy of the raiders March.

And with all the valid bitching one could do about MV, I don't see why people keep on talking about Holst in Gladiator. He's in there on purpose, for a reason, the idea was to bring in Mars, Bringer of War. There are a million and one other terrible stuff MV has done, and people keep on going back to the one that is on purpose and for a reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  The true sign that you haven't heard very much Zimmer.

8O

In an unabridged form:

Because I'm regarding you in a friendly way, I'll post a list of goodies that have Hans Zimmer's name on them that we (me and my friend) share in possession.

The DVDs or VHS (watching films and hearing the score that plays there SHOULD do when judging the score) and I've seen each 3 times at least:

Black Hawk Down

Gladiator

The Rock

Nine Months

As Good As It Gets

The Thin Red Line

Mission Impossible I and II

Pearl Harbor

Tears of the Sun

The CDs we own:

Black Hawk Down

Gladiator

The Rock

Nine Months (horribly unoriginal)

Beyond Rangoon ((horribly unoriginal)

As Good As It Gets (horribly unoriginal)

The Thin Red Line (one of the worst scores of all-time)

Mission Impossible II

Pearl Harbor

Tears of the Sun

Prince of Egypt

Hannibal (perhaps my only Zimmer's favorite and frequently played)

Well, Zimmer can't write a good music in my opinion and I don't want to endlessly try out scores by score to give him another umpteempth chance to show me he can deliver. You like him? Alright. I don't.

When Zimmer works with electronic instruments, the result is overall satisfying and it is very popular among moviegoers. The fact that I don't like that kind of scoring is one thing, but being at least a little more original and varied is another thing. Still, that kind of scoring when he's massively noisy on his synthesizers with a strong thematic idea plays to his strengths, while his now more-and-more frequent approaches to utilize symphonic ensembles reveals his weakness.

But Hans Zimmer himself is not perhaps worthy of me wasting so much time and space discussing him here. We have his CDs and movies with his music, but he never impressed me. He managed rather the opposite reaction from me ever since I started my interest in film music.

But my friend likes him a lot. One of us is right. I don't care who, though.

;)

  The true sign that you haven't heard very much Zimmer.

In an abbreviated form:

I think I couldn't here anymore... ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As someone who finds Hans Zimmer's body of work largely distasteful, I nonetheless have the highest regard for his achievements on The Thin Red Line. I can say unreservedly that it's probably the finest score I've heard for a historical war film.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So? 5 year olds ain't exactly good judges. My cousin is sure E.T. is a rip off of Raiders because the fanfare at the end is a copy of the raiders March.

I'm 5 years old now? I'm talking 16-17 year-olds. Besides, I wasn't attacking Zimmer, I was merely amused at the observation that these people who know very little about film music think that all of Zimmer's music sounds the same. When you listen to these scores, in depth, you begin to realise their differences. Hence, when people say that the Potter scores sound like Jurassic Park, I goggle at them. When I first heard Zimmer's works I thought they sounded the same, but now I know better.

Still, Muppet Treasure Island remains my favourite of his, despite traces of Hook scattered about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would not say end it but I would say "amend" it.

Williams is too late in his life now to be wasting the precious time he has left scoring trivial Spielberg films like "The Terminal" which do not require scores worthy of his talents.

When Spielberg makes a movie of REAL significance that allows for a truly great score THEN Williams should score with him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So? 5 year olds ain't exactly good judges. My cousin is sure E.T. is a rip off of Raiders because the fanfare at the end is a copy of the raiders March.

Age has nothing to do with it. All it takes is a pair of good ears and a "feeling" for music, two things that apparently don't run thick in your family :) .

----------------

Alex Cremers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fine, I don't mean to start another thing- just one comment-

The CDs we own:

Black Hawk Down

Gladiator

The Rock

Nine Months (horribly unoriginal)

Beyond Rangoon ((horribly unoriginal)

As Good As It Gets (horribly unoriginal)

The Thin Red Line (one of the worst scores of all-time)

Mission Impossible II

Pearl Harbor

Tears of the Sun

Prince of Egypt

Hannibal (perhaps my only Zimmer's favorite and frequently played)

These are not representative of Zimmer, only the image most film score fan have of him.

I'm 5 years old now? I'm talking 16-17 year-olds. Besides, I wasn't attacking Zimmer, I was merely amused at the observation that these people who know very little about film music think that all of Zimmer's music sounds the same. When you listen to these scores, in depth, you begin to realise their differences. Hence, when people say that the Potter scores sound like Jurassic Park, I goggle at them. When I first heard Zimmer's works I thought they sounded the same, but now I know better.

I sincerely apologize. I was skimming you post and thought you said 5 year olds, nmot five teens.

Still, Muppet Treasure Island remains my favourite of his, despite traces of Hook scattered about.

Although I'm not a fan of the whole score, I think the theme is one of the best pirate themes out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  These are not representative of Zimmer, only the image most film score fan have of him.

If a composer, regardless of genre, needs to be fully grasped (and hence appreciated) through listening to what you call "representative" of him, then you unintentionally confirm my belief that there's something about Hans Zimmer that I don't like and I won't get better with hours of listening to his music added. I can't imagine --ever-- chasing stuff that is best representative of a composer/filmmaker or whoever in the biz or art to make a fair conclusion on his potential for the field he works in.

How many scores did I list? And how many movies did I list I saw? And yet I'm not entitled to judge the composer thru this "thin" list? Too bad for the composer, then. Then each time he releases his new score the CD better contain a label with warning: "This score is not very well representative of me, skip it suppose you want a fair judgment on me."

I came across and got hooked on Williams' music thru Seven Years In Tibet that I think is not considered "representative" of him, yet I fell in love. But, fairly, what is? Who can say? Apply to whatever you will.

Fine, I don't mean to start another thing- just one comment-

No no, it's okay with me. Yet, I should have known this would turn into such an interesting talk. It's your turn, now. Shame I'm so pressed for time at work. We could try a chat...

:)

Roman.-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, in order to judge a composer properly, IMO you need t oget an idea of his full body of work. And from my experience, I could go through a dozen scores by a composer and remain unimpressed, yet if I find one I like and respect, I could go back to the other dozen and look at them in a new light.

When I was first getting into Williams, I didn't like Rosewood, 7 Years in Tibet, BoT4oJ, AI, Jane Eyre, Angela's Ashes, Dracula, CE3K, Far and Away and several more. But after listening to most of Williams' work, and having gained respect for his greatness, and his verstility, I looked back on those scores in a new light, and they all 'clicked'.

And my main point was that those scores (except for Hannibal) are what most people think when you say Zimmer- The occaisional small romantic scores, the relatively reflective war scores, and of course- the action synth scores. All I'm saying is- there's a lot more to him than that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Black Hawk Down  

Gladiator  

The Rock  

Nine Months (horribly unoriginal)  

Beyond Rangoon ((horribly unoriginal)  

As Good As It Gets (horribly unoriginal)  

The Thin Red Line (one of the worst scores of all-time)  

Mission Impossible II  

Pearl Harbor  

Tears of the Sun  

Prince of Egypt  

Hannibal (perhaps my only Zimmer's favorite and frequently played)

What score is gonna make a click if all the above mentioned scores failed?

If I didn't know Williams and I decided that, after listening to a dozen scores, his music still didn't appeal to me, I surely would've dicovered that Williams is a exceptional master at orchestration and that he truly excels in musicianship. It's something I also recognize when I listen to the greats (Prokofiev, Shostakowich, Schnittke, Penderecki, Bartok, Alban Berg). If I listen to Zimmer I hear no such thing, in fact, I hear the opposite. I hear someone who's still at the early stages of writing for orchestra.

----------------

Alex Cremers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And with all the valid bitching one could do about MV, I don't see why people keep on talking about Holst in Gladiator. He's in there on purpose, for a reason, the idea was to bring in Mars, Bringer of War. There are a million and one other terrible stuff MV has done, and people keep on going back to the one that is on purpose and for a reason.

You'd almost have a good argument there, except you never once mentioned the reason for "Mars" being there. Care to elaborate?

Neil - who knows the answer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You'd almost have a good argument there, except you never once mentioned the reason for "Mars" being there.  Care to elaborate?

Neil - who knows the answer

Well, this kinda corresponds with what Alex heard Zimmer say- that he wasn't good enough to do the score.

Zimmer said that he started to score the scene, but he kept on getting something that was in some way rooted in Holst. He tried to do something like Star Wars, where at the very core there was a classical piece, and turn it totaly around, keeping the spirit, yet making it totaly his own. He was quite unsuccesful, so he decided to drop it all, admited that he was never gonna get something that was in the slightest way comparable to Holst, and just put it in as it was. Scott didn't like putting a whole chunk of classical music in the film, so Zimmer made some very slight alterations to make it fit the rest of the score a bit more, and then used it.

And once he had the piece in the movie, he said that it actually worked even if you take it like 2001, where the classical music is the score- it is an evoketion of 2 things- A. No one could've done this scene better than Holst and B. That the music is for Mars, The Roman God of War, so it could never be used better in a film or play than for a scene when the Roman army goes to war. (though these two explanations are only there after the fact of course, I'm sure these more high minded reasons were not why it was in the movie).

So if you think the answer was that Zimmer stole Mars and tried to pass it off as his own, I'm sorry to say- one less thing to trash Zimmer about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmmmm here is what I am wondering from you people:

After JW who would be your number 2 favorite composer?

I believe I might have seen that one on here before (in fact I am sure of it).

See the problem is then most people's immediate answer would most likely be Jerry Golsmith or ughhh ..... James Horner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmmmm here is what I am wondering from you people:

After JW who would be your number 2 favorite composer?  

I believe I might have seen that one on here before (in fact I am sure of it).  

See the problem is then most people's immediate answer would most likely be Jerry Golsmith or ughhh ..... James Horner.

My first instinct is Goldsmith. But after thinking about it my second favorite is Nobuo Uematsu. And never, ever Horner. Ever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Uematsu? Really? You like the guy's work that much? Damn I should get you all the orchestral Uematsu tracks I have. I've got a tons of his music done by an orchestra. It sounds MANY times better than it does in the games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Uematsu? Really? You like the guy's work that much? Damn I should get you all the orchestral Uematsu tracks I have. I've got a tons of his music done by an orchestra. It sounds MANY times better than it does in the games.

I really do, but putting him 2nd fav could just be the mood I'm in right now. ;)

Just like my JW top 10 scores can shift around depending on what I'm in the mood for at the time. Still, I would love to get a hold of any of his orchestral work, right now I just have the game scores.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, as for that- I used to be conflicted aboput it, but now- Goldsmith, with out a doubt. Then Zimmer, then Horner, then Elfman. These top five haven't changes in a while though (And Elfman might be off there soon- last score of his I've liked was Red Dragon).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After JW who would be your number 2 favorite composer?  

See the problem is then most people's immediate answer would most likely be Jerry Golsmith or ughhh ..... James Horner.

Brahms. :P

Then a whole bunch of classical people, depending on my mood, but Haydn and Skryabin for sure, and somewhere in there come Goldsmith and Horner in that order. Goldsmith isn't that bad, really - he did a lot of great things for ST but Horner hasn't ever moved me that much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmmmm here is what I am wondering from you people:

After JW who would be your number 2 favorite composer?  

I believe I might have seen that one on here before (in fact I am sure of it).  

See the problem is then most people's immediate answer would most likely be Jerry Golsmith or ughhh ..... James Horner.

This really needs to be a separate thread. :mrgreen:

My second favorite composer currently working is Patrick Doyle with Elmer Bernstein and the woefully underused Lee Holdridge not far behind.

If Golden Age composers are included, then my answer would be Erich W. Korngold.

Kathy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get the big Holdridge following. I don't find Old Gringo, Splash or Mists of Avalon particulaly amazing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get the big Holdridge following. I don't find Old Gringo, Splash or Mists of Avalon particulaly amazing.

Ah well, tastes differ ...

Kathy, who doesn't get the whole Zimmer following :mrgreen:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Goldsmith isn't that bad, really

You have a gift for understatement.

Neil

OMG! I heard that in a movie before! What is it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For some reason I'm imagining Paul Scofield saying the line... but I'm pretty sure it's not him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for heck of it, my favorite living film composers besides Williams are the following, in no particular order (OK, they're in alphabetical order by last name; sue me): Elmer Bernstein, Patrick Doyle, Jerry Goldsmith, Joe Hisaishi, Trevor Jones, Ennio Morricone, Thomas Newman, Basil Poledouris, and Gabriel Yared.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great list Alan! ;)

I have to admit that Yared has not been one of my favorites, but after reading so much about his rejected score for Troy and his emotional interview in FSM, I managed to download it (before the link was removed) and was completely blown away by the depth and brilliance of his music.

Kathy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.