Why the MINORITY REPORT plot is horribly conceived

[Hlao-roo 389]

Guys, someone e-mailed me this this evening. Tell me what you think:

***THE FACTS:

+Precogs detect only the likely occurrence of murder, premeditated and crimes of passion are two examples of murder that are illustrated.

+The precogs do not accurately detect whether the murder will occur or not.

+You do not have to have knowledge of the future for the precogs to file an incorrect majority report.

+Dr. Hineman designs the precogs so that the Minority Reports are stored or backed up within the precogs memory.

+Anderton has advanced knowledge of all murders that occur in the city.

?Anderton has predetermined he will kill the abductor of his son if he ever finds him.

?Burgess has predetermined that he will kill to save Precrime.

-Burgess hires someone to kill Agatha's mother knowing that they will be stopped.

-The precogs detect this first killing, but Agatha has a minority report, which is later erased by Burgess and leads to Anderton's investigation of the entire lockup and eventual discovery of minority reports.

-Burgess then kills Agatha's mother in the exact same way as the attempted murder so that Precrime can exist.

-The visions of the second attempt of killing is ignored as an echo and is deleted.

-The minority report of Agatha's mother's killing is also erased by Burgess, as are other minority reports so that Precrime can exist.

-Agatha shows Anderton the images of her mother's case, which leads Anderton to investigate.

-Anderton investigates and discovers the dozens of missing files.

-Anderton tells his discovery to Burgess. (This is where I figured out who was the bad guy very early on in the movie.)

-Burgess decides that Anderton must be stopped in order for Precrime to go on because he has discovered the minority reports and he is looking closely at the case where Burgess committed murder.

-Burgess frames Anderton in cooperation with Crow.

***PLOT HOLE: The details of Burgess and Crow's plan are never completely fleshed out in the film. We are told merely that Crow was hired by Burgess to fool Anderton into believing that he was his son's abductor. We are never told how Burgess planned for Crow and Anderton to meet. This is the most glaring error of the entire story and has caused much confusion over the film. It is possible to assume that at the instant that Burgess created the arrangements with Crow for his meeting with Anderton and because of Anderton's predetermined convictions to kill the man that he believes abducted his son, a murder report is instantly filed by the precogs.

-The precogs file a report of Anderton killing Crow 36 hours before time.

***PLOT HOLE: The precogs prediction of the Anderton's murder is where most people recognize the potential "paradox" in the entire timeline of the story. The report that the precogs file is based upon the likely hood that Anderton because of his unique position at Precrime can see any report of himself committing murder. Any scenario that Burgess potentially setup for Crow to meet Anderton is a logical impossibility and can never occur because of Anderton's position to always read the future. As a result of this the precogs see the only possible and likely future with Agatha in the room led by Anderton's curiosity.

-The precogs as always predict the time, placement, and individuals involved around a potential murder correctly.

-What they do not predict correctly is whether the murder actually occurs.

In the movie we see twice that precogs do not predict murders correctly.

***Idiotic plot point: Anderton is allowed security clearance into the Temple where he abducts Agatha. There could be infinite explanations for this (bureaucracy, incompetence, overconfidence, Anderton's high ranking position, etc.), but none are given or even suggested.

-Anderton abducts Agatha and takes her to Rufus with the intention to have her non-existent minority report of Crow's murder recorded.

-Witwer sees Agatha is in the room where the murder potentially takes place in one of the images and tries to stop Anderton from abducting her.

-When Anderton escapes with Agatha, Witwer tells the squad not to bother going after him showing them the image of Agatha in the room as proof that they will not catch Anderton.

***Logic problem: Witwer's logic at this point is another oversight in the film. It was never stated in the film that murders had to be prevented at the moment just before they are about to occur. No one on the precrime squad would agree with Witwer's assessment that Anderton would definitely get away with Agatha if they pursued him because they constantly stop murders that are presented in images from the precogs. The precrime squad understands that they have the power to stop the events of the future from taking place so why would they not pursue Anderton. This potential logic error lends credence to the belief that the precogs always predict the circumstances of time, placement, and individuals correctly in their premonitions.

-Witwer figures out where Anderton would have to take Agatha to have her mind read by finding out who created Anderton's computer interface.

-A squad does pursue Anderton to the cyber parlor.

***Logic problem: Why would they now send a squad after Witwer decided that it was a useless pursuit. Perhaps they finally came to their senses and realized the logic error Witwer originally made. This is not stated or suggested.

-At the cyber parlor Anderton has Agatha's report of Crow's murder recorded on one of Rufus's machines.

-Anderton finds out that there is no minority report of his case and that Agatha saw the future exactly as it is leading to happen.

-Agatha also plays back her minority report of her mother's killing.

?The recording of Agatha's mother's minority report is left in Rufus's cyber parlor and discovered by Witwer.

?The discovery of this minority report recording will lead to Witwer's death, but because Agatha has been removed from the Temple the precogs can not predict Witwer's murder.

-In the mall/escape sequence Agatha demonstrates that she has more than just the ability to see murders.

-Agatha demonstrates the ability to see the short-term future by telling Anderton what to do and determining what others around them will do.

***Plot deviation: The mall sequence with Agatha demonstrates abilities that deviate from anything that has to do with the plot of the movie. In this sequence she has the ability to predict the weather forecast and to tell another woman that her boyfriend knows that she's having an affair. These abilities slightly deviate from those she is said to have earlier in the movie.

-As they exit the mall Anderton sees the billboard with the man with sunglasses, which leads him to Crow's building.

?Anderton finds the pictures of his son in Crow's room and confesses his long term intentions to kill his son's abductor.

?Agatha begins to convince Anderton that he does not have to kill Crow because he knows the future.

***Unclear Plot Objective: The script/story writers make a point of having Anderton confess the two things he has thought about ever since the day that his son was kidnapped at this moment. One is what his son would look like and the other is what he would do to the person that kidnapped his son. It is possible that this piece of information is given to us to explain why the precogs would pick up on this murder 36 hours ahead of time. If Anderton has held the convictions to kill the man he believes is responsible for taking his son then the likelihood that Anderton would pull the trigger on a man that confesses to this is extremely high.

-Agatha tries hard to convince Anderton that he does not have to pull the trigger and that he is in control because unlike all of the other people he has arrested he was aware of the future.

-Anderton's watch indicates that the murder of Crow did not occur at the time that the precogs had predicted.

-At this moment it is proven that Precrime is flawed and that the precogs do not predict murders infallibly even if they can predict the most likely scenarios.

?Crow confesses that he was setup to have Anderton kill him for a pay off to his family but does not say by whom.

***Plot hole: At this point we are only given half of the bread crumb trail we needed to figure out how Anderton was supposed to kill Crow. It is never revealed how Anderton was intended by Burgess to meet or end up inside of Crow's apartment. The dots are completely left unconnected.

-After Crow confesses he was a fraud and had nothing to do with Anderton's son, he uses Anderton's gun to commit suicide.

-The precogs can only detect potential murders and would not have detected this suicide even if they had been functioning up to this point.

-Witwer investigates the mistaken crime scene and becomes extremely suspicious because of the overwhelming evidence that is blatantly left out for them.

-Witwer collects Anderton's gun and visits Burgess.

?Witwer gives Burgess Anderton's gun and shows him the findings of Agatha's recorded minority report of her mother's death where the wind is blowing in the opposite direction.

?There is no mask revealing when Witwer shows the recording or when Agatha shows them in the cyber parlor.

?Burgess kills Witwer with Anderton's gun because he knows that the precogs are not functioning without Agatha.

-Anderton goes to his wife's home and explains everything that he knows to her.

***Unclear Plot: At this point it is unclear if Anderton realizes he will be apprehended and gives his wife everything she needs to get him out of jail and find who is really guilty. ?We see that Anderton leaves his eyeball with his wife so there must have been some planning on his part.

-While in Anderton's house Agatha again demonstrates powers beyond what she is said to have at the beginning of the story.

-Agatha is able to tell the Andertons details about how their son would have been at specific time periods in his potential life.

***Plot deviation: Once again Agatha demonstrates powers, which alter the time continuum rules of the movie in a way that is either confusing or misleading to the audience. It lends credence to the theory that the precogs are capable of seeing alternate timeline scenarios or dimensions. And if this is the case then what is to prevent the precogs from showing Anderton a vision of the future that is not a result of him seeing the future. As long as the images that they showed him have Agatha in the room we know that the precogs are seeing a future where Anderton is aware of his future. The plot of the movie makes much more sense if the precogs are only capable of seeing a future where Anderton would be aware of his future. However if they are capable of seeing alternate timelines as Agatha demonstrates in Anderton's home then why don't they see a vision where Anderton kills Crow without using Agatha to get there? This is unanswered. It is possible that Agatha only evokes this ability for the Andertons' personal and long term benefit and the machine the precogs are hooked up to at the Temple eliminates these type of improbable scenarios through a complex mathematical formula. Perhaps we should look to a Beautiful Mind for explanation?

-At this point Agatha screams for Anderton to run.

?This is somewhat confusing because Anderton is calm when caught, assures his wife that things are okay, then seems to either look to Agatha for advice on what he should do, reassurance on whether the future will work out in his benefit since she can see that, or to convey that everything is going according to their plans.

-Anderton is given a halo and charged with killing Crow and Witwer.

?Anderton's wife has a conversation with Burgess where she mentions Agatha's mother's case that her husband was trying to figure out.

?Burgess claims that he doesn't remember the case, but he makes a silly slip-up where he accidentally mentions her drowning.

-Anderton's wife now suspects something and Burgess probably is already planning to figure out a way to get rid of her.

?Andertons' wife stares at the box that contains her husbands guns and personal items.

-She breaks her husband out of jail with his gun and his eyeball.

***Silly plot point: I think most people after the second time this happens are chuckling at the movie and not with it when Anderton's identification allows him high level clearance access to a lockup that he is now being held in. Complete nonsense. Although the movie shows that security is so lax that the entire institution is only guarded by a single handicapped officer. Security obviously was not a major concern for this establishment.

-Anderton calls Burgess while his wife looks on the reception.

?At the precrime headquarters they receive the minority report recording with instructions to broadcast at the reception.

-The precogs detect another potential crime of passion murder and show that Burgess is going to shoot Anderton with the honorary gun that he just received.

-Anderton is standing with the Washington monument right behind him.

?Anderton and Burgess confront each other where Anderton presents Burgess with a check mate ultimatum.

?Anderton tells Burgess that he must either decide to kill him and wear a halo or restrain himself and not kill Anderton and show all that Precrime is a flawed failure.

***Plot Hole: Anderton has no way of knowing that the precogs ever detected a murder when he presents this choice to Burgess. If Burgess restrained himself and there was never a precog alert then it would prove absolutely nothing. Anderton presenting this ultimatum suggests that he is aware of the precrime warning which there is no explanation of in the film.

-Burgess commits suicide and does not commit murder.

-This is the second time that we see the precogs have made a mistake in predicting the future.

-We also see that you don't need to be aware of the future to change it because Burgess never saw himself shooting Anderton and yet he chooses not to shoot him.

I'd give the movie 2 1/2 stars partially because of the sloppy plot, partially for the moronic whodunit, and the happily ever after ending. Everything else I thought was good, premise, special effects, acting, symbolism, etc. I don't think they put as much work into the movie as they should have. It could have been a great movie but because of their laziness with the story it was just good.

[UCFKevin 0]

Sweet Jesus...

There comes a point where one must say, "It's only a movie," and this is that point.

It's only a movie.

(One that I love, by the way.)

[PetePan 163]

is this the whole script or something?

[Morn 8]

Bah, a lot of this stuff he's already found a way to make it work.

[Morn 8]

Bah, a lot of this stuff he's already found a way to make it work.

[Harry Potter 0]

***Plot Hole: Anderton has no way of knowing that the precogs ever detected a murder when he presents this choice to Burgess.

Hmmm.

He could assume that the precogs predicted this. Burgess didn't know this was going to happen, right? He didn't have the plan set up to murder Anderton, so it was a spur of the moment thing, right? So, Burgess couldn't have erased something he didn't plan on or didn't think was going to happen, right?

~Harry, who loved the movie

[Justin 2]

Wow it makes you wonder how long a thing like that would be for a film like TPM....

Justin

[Guest]

I'd give the movie 2 1/2 stars partially because of the sloppy plot, partially for the moronic whodunit, and the happily ever after ending. Everything else I thought was good, premise, special effects, acting, symbolism, etc. I don't think they put as much work into the movie as they should have. It could have been a great movie but because of their laziness with the story it was just good.

This author is obviously biased. Why would you ever take away a piece of a "star" because of the genre of the film? The whodunit may be "moronic" to one person...but wonderful to another. I personally love whodunit films.

Also...why couldn't a film have a happy ending? With all the crap that's going around in the world, isn't it occasionally nice to be taken away from suicide bombings and nuclear threats and be treated to a happy ending?

Personally, I believe it's just a movie...a damn good one. Spielberg and Williams made me pretty happy with this one.

I think that some people just look too deeply into a movie and ruin the fun for the rest of us. When are you critics going to realize that you are destroying and art? I mean, even Casablanca had simple plot glitches like Minority Report.

[Gamecube 0]

At least we aren't here to rate movies

[Johnnyecks 33]

There is a certain thing that I do when I sit down and watch a movie. I TRY TO ENJOY IT, REGARDLESS OF PLOT HOLES.

Cheesy Creesy........get a life man.

[Harry Potter 0]

I think we can all agree that the movie was great!

~Harry

[Ross 1]

I TRY TO ENJOY IT, REGARDLESS OF PLOT HOLES.  

Disagreement here.

After I watch a movie, if I've liked it, I LOOOOVE to think about it, think about the "what ifs" and why the writer made certain things happen. And if I don't find any plotholes I'm DOUBLE happy.

For instance, most historical films are, for me, a delight to watch, because there are indeed to plot holes.

But then we have, I don't know . . .Return of the Jedi? Why the heck doesn't Luke communicate with Leia after he learns the whole thing's a trap by the Emperor? What, is he afraid Palpatine will make him hung up or something?

It just removes from the movie during a second viewing, sorry.

-ROSS, big movie fan

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

Well, I just got back from seeing the film a few hours ago and I liked it. It kept me guessing, and unlike some films, the plot twists were not only hard to predict, but interesting. Too many "whodunits" either leave me not caring enough to guess, or overly predictable. This one I enjoyed.

I too saw a few plotholes (not as many as the writer of that email did... sheesh... calm down there... whoa!), but I tend to not take movies THAT seriously. I either enjoy them or I don't. And I enjoyed Minority Report.

The score was VERY effective in the film too. Moreso than the CD, which I also like (but until I saw the film, I only cared about the action cues... now I can get into the quieter music and especially the haunting chorus).

[Big John 3]

***Plot deviation: The mall sequence with Agatha demonstrates abilities that deviate from anything that has to do with the plot of the movie. In this sequence she has the ability to predict the weather forecast and to tell another woman that her boyfriend knows that she's having an affair. These abilities slightly deviate from those she is said to have earlier in the movie.

I don't think so. It is mentioned that when the precogs SLEEP, all they dream of is murder. Wally also mentions that the milky fluid they sleep in acts as a conduit ... something something ... but keeps them from falling too deeply asleep. It seems clear that the precogs are being exploited for their sleep-induced precognitions.

-Burgess commits suicide and does not commit murder.  

-This is the second time that we see the precogs have made a mistake in predicting the future.  

-We also see that you don't need to be aware of the future to change it because Burgess never saw himself shooting Anderton and yet he chooses not to shoot him.

Arguable. In both times where the murder is mis-committed, the dialog actually is different, which is probably a subtle way of indicating that a different choice has been made - when presented with one, which both were - and therefore changing what they actually say. The difference is slight, but it's there.

I think pretty much any movie that involves twisting the sequence of time has flaws like these, but you can really pick apart the impossibilities of any of your favorite movies. That doesn't make them less likable, and certainly should not dissuade anyone from seeing this movie. Hell, i got a great jolt when Agatha springs out of the pool, and i burst out laughing at the "End of File" immediately following the "ultimatum" from his wife (in recorded flashback). Too funny.

I really liked it, especially when I found out that COPS will still be on 52 years from now. That's GOT to be some kind of record.

BigJohn

[Rogue_Leader 2]

The movie had a CRAZY number of plot holes.

It was just totally ridiculous.

Hell, the movie was flawed right from its "I HAVE TO RUN" premise.

If Anderton had just layed low for the 36 hours until the murder he was supposed to committ. He would have not killed the man he was supposed to murder and therefore proven that the vision was indeed false. I mean they couldn't logically arrest him if the crime he was supposed to commit never took place when it was supposed to.

Why didn't Anderton just hide out and wait until after the deadline?

At least then if he still wanted to continue his investigation on the run if the cops ever gaught up with him he would have a strong argument that he could not be arrested since the prediction had been proven wrong.

Anyway the movie had a LARGE number of plot holes. It wasn't a terrible film but a VERY overated one. I guess I expected too much from this sucker.

The one thing about this movie that REALLY pissed me off however is the ending.

I mean the movie ends with the Precrime unit being shut down?

WHY THE HELL DID THEY DO THAT? They spend the whole movie showing how precrime could have helped Anderton with his son and how its helped others and saved countless lives and just because of 1 LITTLE INCIDENT they shut it down? PLEEEZ!

What kind of BS is that? I hate how they try to put a happy ending on this deal when we all realize that without the precrime unit murder will begin again.

[Morn 8]

If Anderton had just layed low for the 36 hours until the murder he was supposed to committ. He would have not killed the man he was supposed to murder and therefore proven that the vision was indeed false. I mean they couldn't logically arrest him if the crime he was supposed to commit never took place when it was supposed to.

Why didn't Anderton just hide out and wait until after the deadline?  

I assume that the boss guy had some back up plan that would let him know somehow that Crow committed the murder (to solve the problem of how did the pre-cogs see his murder if they caused him to murder by seeing his murder). So it probably wouldn't help if he hid. Plus didn't he think that the pre-cogs are never wrong when he started running? Don't remember.

WHY THE HELL DID THEY DO THAT? They spend the whole movie showing how precrime could have helped Anderton with his son and how its helped others and saved countless lives and just because of 1 LITTLE INCIDENT they shut it down?

Hey, it's not that surprising, it is after all some media/democractic type issue. And usually, you always get people making big deals out of small things... :roll:

And I like how it isn't your typical happy ending. I'm sick of happy endings to be honest

[Gamecube 0]

for me an ending like that just leaves something to be disired.

[Hlao-roo 389]

for me an ending like that just leaves something to be disired.

A lot of viewers have been complaining about the ostensibly slapped-on, "incongruous" ending...

Maybe Kaminski's gritty cinematography was a bit too infectious... watch the movie again. Pay attention to the story (not the supposed swiss cheese of a plot) this time. Spielberg telegraphs this ending for you all along the way...

[Rogue_Leader 2]

And I like how it isn't your typical happy ending. I'm sick of happy endings to be honest

Ummmm maybe you did not understand my point. I was saying the ending was the USUAL happy ending thrown into most movies. It also was pretty lousy. Kind of put a damper on the good stuff the movie had.

[Morn 8]

But, it wasn't exactly a happy ending because pre-crime is finished! I understood what you ment.

[Trumpeteer 302]

The one thing about this movie that REALLY pissed me off however is the ending.  

I mean the movie ends with the Precrime unit being shut down?

WHY THE HELL DID THEY DO THAT? They spend the whole movie showing how precrime could have helped Anderton with his son and how its helped others and saved countless lives and just because of 1 LITTLE INCIDENT they shut it down? PLEEEZ!  

.

colin Farrell's character was there to prove that Pre-crime had flaws and that it deserved to be shut down before it went national. The setup for Tom Cruise's character, as well as the missing file from Agatha showing Max von Sydow's character murdering Anne Lively were two flaws that would have ruined the company. That's why the movie ended like it did. Since the cops didn't prevent Crow's murder, that was a major reason to shut down the company. And then von Sydow's death was the icing on the cake.

[Morn 8]

Sure, but that is unimportant compared to stopping all murder It is a valid reason and very believeable. As I said, usually, you always get people making big deals out of small things.

[Hlao-roo 389]

And I like how it isn't your typical happy ending. I'm sick of happy endings to be honest

Ummmm maybe you did not understand my point. I was saying the ending was the USUAL happy ending thrown into most movies. It also was pretty lousy. Kind of put a damper on the good stuff the movie had.

Er, what do you mean by "USUAL" happy ending? I didn't find anything particularly "usual" about the ending other than that it conforms to the typical Spielbergian optimism that subsists amid even the most dystopian of settings.

And as Morn said, there is a bit of emotional ambiguity at the end, although not to the extent of A.I., whose ending was frequently (and probably erroneously) considered "happy" as well.

[Morn 8]

Er, what do you mean by "USUAL" happy ending?  I didn't find anything particularly "usual" about the ending other than that it conforms to the typical Spielbergian optimism that subsists amid even the most dystopian of settings.

How about everything turned out wonderful for the main character and the "bad guy" is dead.

And as Morn said, there is a bit of emotional ambiguity at the end, although not to the extent of A.I., whose ending was frequently (and probably erroneously) considered "happy" as well.

Hmm, AI was in tone very happy, and you then realise that they have all just died. MR was more like.... hey, wtf? Don't kill pre-crime... no you fools! I disagree that AI has more emotional ambiguity, because the killing of pre-crime is offensive though not unexpected and smells of reality.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Er, what do you mean by "USUAL" happy ending?  I didn't find anything particularly "usual" about the ending other than that it conforms to the typical Spielbergian optimism that subsists amid even the most dystopian of settings.

How about everything turned out wonderful for the main character and the "bad guy" is dead.

Do you think the movie would've been "better" with a darker ending (in which the main character's problems remain unresolved)? Just curious.

[Morn 8]

No.

[WLW 0]

Hell, the movie was flawed right from its "I HAVE TO RUN" premise.

If Anderton had just layed low for the 36 hours until the murder he was supposed to committ. He would have not killed the man he was supposed to murder and therefore proven that the vision was indeed false. I mean they couldn't logically arrest him if the crime he was supposed to commit never took place when it was supposed to.  

Why didn't Anderton just hide out and wait until after the deadline?

The pre-cogs show you something that has to be solved. The report isn't a simple he did this here at this time on this street, go get him. This crime solving aspect is exemplified in the very first murder that Anderton and team have to unravel. Maybe Anderton thought that by running he WOULD be altering his future, or at least DOING something to alter it. Remember, noone could tell that he was actually following the premonition until he stole Agatha - not even him! For all he knew, by sitting and doing nothing he may have been following the path to the murder anyway, he was not sure at the time. I guess, he felt that at least, since he doesn't know just yet WHICH path to take, he might as way take one that is pro-active.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

Aaarrggh! 8O

Do you guys have to anylize every film to death? With every movie you see there are pros and cons, why pick at it?

Just enjoy it or not enjoy it. I liked the movie very much even though a few holes could be found here and there, but one could say the same for every movie. No movie is perfect. Relax!

[EvanED 1]

Just saw MR, so bear with me:

If Anderton had just layed low for the 36 hours until the murder he was supposed to committ. He would have not killed the man he was supposed to murder and therefore proven that the vision was indeed false. I mean they couldn't logically arrest him if the crime he was supposed to commit never took place when it was supposed to.

Unless they found him within that 36 hours, which considering the security around, is fairly likely. Besides, he wasn't necessarily out to prove the system wrong, as evidenced by the fact that he almost killed Crow despite knowing the consequences. He didn't lay low so that he could find out who Crow was.

They spend the whole movie showing how precrime could have helped Anderton with his son and how its helped others and saved countless lives and just because of 1 LITTLE INCIDENT they shut it down?

But if the precogs misreported Anderton, how do you know that they didn't misreport others? Aye, there's the rub... It turns into a "guilty until proven innocent" deal, only worse because it doesn't even appear that these people had any CHANCE to prove their innocence.

PLOT HOLE: The details of Burgess and Crow's plan are never completely fleshed out in the film. We are told merely that Crow was hired by Burgess to fool Anderton into believing that he was his son's abductor. We are never told how Burgess planned for Crow and Anderton to meet. This is the most glaring error of the entire story and has caused much confusion over the film. It is possible to assume that at the instant that Burgess created the arrangements with Crow for his meeting with Anderton and because of Anderton's predetermined convictions to kill the man that he believes abducted his son, a murder report is instantly filed by the precogs.

This is a problem, and by far the biggest present in the movie.

PLOT HOLE: The precogs prediction of the Anderton's murder is where most people recognize the potential "paradox" in the entire timeline of the story. The report that the precogs file is based upon the likely hood that Anderton because of his unique position at Precrime can see any report of himself committing murder.  Any scenario that Burgess potentially setup for Crow to meet Anderton is a logical impossibility and can never occur because of Anderton's position to always read the future. As a result of this the precogs see the only possible and likely future with Agatha in the room led by Anderton's curiosity.

What's wrong with the movie if the precogs aren't right all the time? Nothing...

Idiotic plot point: Anderton is allowed security clearance into the Temple where he abducts Agatha. There could be infinite explanations for this (bureaucracy, incompetence, overconfidence, Anderton's high ranking position, etc.), but none are given or even suggested.

Silly plot point: I think most people after the second time this happens are chuckling at the movie and not with it when Anderton's identification allows him high level clearance access to a lockup that he is now being held in. Complete nonsense. Although the movie shows that security is so lax that the entire institution is only guarded by a single handicapped officer. Security obviously was not a major concern for this establishment.

It's being overseen by the government at this point. That's all the reason you need. The second time is pushing it further than the first; but consider that precrime is concentrating on FINDING Anderton, not making sure their security records are up to date.

Logic problem: Witwer's logic at this point is another oversight in the film. It was never stated in the film that murders had to be prevented at the moment just before they are about to occur. No one on the precrime squad would agree with Witwer's assessment that Anderton would definitely get away with Agatha if they pursued him because they constantly stop murders that are presented in images from the precogs. The precrime squad understands that they have the power to stop the events of the future from taking place so why would they not pursue Anderton. This potential logic error lends credence to the belief that the precogs always predict the circumstances of time, placement, and individuals correctly in their premonitions.

Logic problem: Why would they now send a squad after Witwer decided that it was a useless pursuit. Perhaps they finally came to their senses and realized the logic error Witwer originally made. This is not stated or suggested.

This is the only other (apart from the first one, about the meeting) plot error in the film that is bigger than a small glitch, which are virtually impossible to avoid.

Plot deviation: The mall sequence with Agatha demonstrates abilities that deviate from anything that has to do with the plot of the movie. In this sequence she has the ability to predict the weather forecast and to tell another woman that her boyfriend knows that she's having an affair. These abilities slightly deviate from those she is said to have earlier in the movie.

Plot deviation: Once again Agatha demonstrates powers, which alter the time continuum rules of the movie in a way that is either confusing or misleading to the audience. It lends credence to the theory that the precogs are capable of seeing alternate timeline scenarios or dimensions. And if this is the case then what is to prevent the precogs from showing Anderton a vision of the future that is not a result of him seeing the future. As long as the images that they showed him have Agatha in the room we know that the precogs are seeing a future where Anderton is aware of his future. The plot of the movie makes much more sense if the precogs are only capable of seeing a future where Anderton would be aware of his future. However if they are capable of seeing alternate timelines as Agatha demonstrates in Anderton's home then why don't they see a vision where Anderton kills Crow without using Agatha to get there? This is unanswered. It is possible that Agatha only evokes this ability for the Andertons' personal and long term benefit and the machine the precogs are hooked up to at the Temple eliminates these type of improbable scenarios through a complex mathematical formula. Perhaps we should look to a Beautiful Mind for explanation?

As someone else said, there's nothing to prevent them from seeing non-murder futures. Also, don't forget the drugs they kept the precogs loaded down with in the temple.

Unclear Plot: At this point it is unclear if Anderton realizes he will be apprehended and gives his wife everything she needs to get him out of jail and find who is really guilty. ?We see that Anderton leaves his eyeball with his wife so there must have been some planning on his part.

He didn't know (at least that it would be there), as shown by his surprise at the arrival of precrime and lack of leaving. As for his telling her of the case, this can easily be attributed to our need for discussion. Humans want to tell stories; the telling of a case you're currently being hunted for is an extreme example. As for the eyeballs, she probably found them (though I think this could have been shown). He obviously didn't take them, and precrime didn't find them. My guess is that they were in his car.

Plot Hole: Anderton has no way of knowing that the precogs ever detected a murder when he presents this choice to Burgess. If Burgess restrained himself and there was never a precog alert then it would prove absolutely nothing. Anderton presenting this ultimatum suggests that he is aware of the precrime warning which there is no explanation of in the film.

Sure he does: the precogs NEVER gave a false negative except (perhaps) when Agatha wasn't there. Sometimes a false negative was created when it was mistaken for an echo, but the precogs never failed to spot a murder that DID take place; only spotted ones that did not.

[Morn 8]

PLOT HOLE: The details of Burgess and Crow's plan are never completely fleshed out in the film. We are told merely that Crow was hired by Burgess to fool Anderton into believing that he was his son's abductor. We are never told how Burgess planned for Crow and Anderton to meet. This is the most glaring error of the entire story and has caused much confusion over the film. It is possible to assume that at the instant that Burgess created the arrangements with Crow for his meeting with Anderton and because of Anderton's predetermined convictions to kill the man that he believes abducted his son, a murder report is instantly filed by the precogs.

This is a problem, and by far the biggest present in the movie.

I disagree, we really don't know need to know how Burgess planned for Crow and Anderton to meet, all those sorts details would make the film overly long and might throw pacing off.

I think a more likely scenario than if Burgess only set up Crow is that is also set up a way for Anderton to find Crow, which set off the pre-cogs. But because it set the pre-cogs off, Anderton found Crow in a different way than what Burgess intended.

PLOT HOLE: The precogs prediction of the Anderton's murder is where most people recognize the potential "paradox" in the entire timeline of the story. The report that the precogs file is based upon the likely hood that Anderton because of his unique position at Precrime can see any report of himself committing murder.  Any scenario that Burgess potentially setup for Crow to meet Anderton is a logical impossibility and can never occur because of Anderton's position to always read the future. As a result of this the precogs see the only possible and likely future with Agatha in the room led by Anderton's curiosity.

What's wrong with the movie if the precogs aren't right all the time? Nothing...

How is this even a plot hole? I don't see any logical impossibility.

Idiotic plot point: Anderton is allowed security clearance into the Temple where he abducts Agatha. There could be infinite explanations for this (bureaucracy, incompetence, overconfidence, Anderton's high ranking position, etc.), but none are given or even suggested.

Silly plot point: I think most people after the second time this happens are chuckling at the movie and not with it when Anderton's identification allows him high level clearance access to a lockup that he is now being held in. Complete nonsense. Although the movie shows that security is so lax that the entire institution is only guarded by a single handicapped officer. Security obviously was not a major concern for this establishment.

It's being overseen by the government at this point. That's all the reason you need. The second time is pushing it further than the first; but consider that precrime is concentrating on FINDING Anderton, not making sure their security records are up to date.

Well, I think this is the worst plot hole in the film, but at least it can be explained by human error, still it's a really huge oversite for precrime to make, to the point if incompetence.

Logic problem: Witwer's logic at this point is another oversight in the film. It was never stated in the film that murders had to be prevented at the moment just before they are about to occur. No one on the precrime squad would agree with Witwer's assessment that Anderton would definitely get away with Agatha if they pursued him because they constantly stop murders that are presented in images from the precogs. The precrime squad understands that they have the power to stop the events of the future from taking place so why would they not pursue Anderton. This potential logic error lends credence to the belief that the precogs always predict the circumstances of time, placement, and individuals correctly in their premonitions.

Logic problem: Why would they now send a squad after Witwer decided that it was a useless pursuit. Perhaps they finally came to their senses and realized the logic error Witwer originally made. This is not stated or suggested.

This is the only other (apart from the first one, about the meeting) plot error in the film that is bigger than a small glitch, which are virtually impossible to avoid.

Well, he already explained how Witwer's oversite can be accounted for, belief that the pre-cogs are always correct.

[Guest]

The eyeball was in the box of Anderton's belongings...thats why she was looking at the box with interest, which is also why, coinidentally, the next scene is her going to get Anderton...I thought that was obvious...considering the eyeball was on top of the stuff.

-Xel'lotath

Just saw MR, so bear with me:

If Anderton had just layed low for the 36 hours until the murder he was supposed to committ. He would have not killed the man he was supposed to murder and therefore proven that the vision was indeed false. I mean they couldn't logically arrest him if the crime he was supposed to commit never took place when it was supposed to.

Unless they found him within that 36 hours, which considering the security around, is fairly likely. Besides, he wasn't necessarily out to prove the system wrong, as evidenced by the fact that he almost killed Crow despite knowing the consequences. He didn't lay low so that he could find out who Crow was.

They spend the whole movie showing how precrime could have helped Anderton with his son and how its helped others and saved countless lives and just because of 1 LITTLE INCIDENT they shut it down?

But if the precogs misreported Anderton, how do you know that they didn't misreport others? Aye, there's the rub... It turns into a "guilty until proven innocent" deal, only worse because it doesn't even appear that these people had any CHANCE to prove their innocence.

PLOT HOLE: The details of Burgess and Crow's plan are never completely fleshed out in the film. We are told merely that Crow was hired by Burgess to fool Anderton into believing that he was his son's abductor. We are never told how Burgess planned for Crow and Anderton to meet. This is the most glaring error of the entire story and has caused much confusion over the film. It is possible to assume that at the instant that Burgess created the arrangements with Crow for his meeting with Anderton and because of Anderton's predetermined convictions to kill the man that he believes abducted his son, a murder report is instantly filed by the precogs.

This is a problem, and by far the biggest present in the movie.

PLOT HOLE: The precogs prediction of the Anderton's murder is where most people recognize the potential "paradox" in the entire timeline of the story. The report that the precogs file is based upon the likely hood that Anderton because of his unique position at Precrime can see any report of himself committing murder.  Any scenario that Burgess potentially setup for Crow to meet Anderton is a logical impossibility and can never occur because of Anderton's position to always read the future. As a result of this the precogs see the only possible and likely future with Agatha in the room led by Anderton's curiosity.

What's wrong with the movie if the precogs aren't right all the time? Nothing...

Idiotic plot point: Anderton is allowed security clearance into the Temple where he abducts Agatha. There could be infinite explanations for this (bureaucracy, incompetence, overconfidence, Anderton's high ranking position, etc.), but none are given or even suggested.

Silly plot point: I think most people after the second time this happens are chuckling at the movie and not with it when Anderton's identification allows him high level clearance access to a lockup that he is now being held in. Complete nonsense. Although the movie shows that security is so lax that the entire institution is only guarded by a single handicapped officer. Security obviously was not a major concern for this establishment.

It's being overseen by the government at this point. That's all the reason you need. The second time is pushing it further than the first; but consider that precrime is concentrating on FINDING Anderton, not making sure their security records are up to date.

Logic problem: Witwer's logic at this point is another oversight in the film. It was never stated in the film that murders had to be prevented at the moment just before they are about to occur. No one on the precrime squad would agree with Witwer's assessment that Anderton would definitely get away with Agatha if they pursued him because they constantly stop murders that are presented in images from the precogs. The precrime squad understands that they have the power to stop the events of the future from taking place so why would they not pursue Anderton. This potential logic error lends credence to the belief that the precogs always predict the circumstances of time, placement, and individuals correctly in their premonitions.

Logic problem: Why would they now send a squad after Witwer decided that it was a useless pursuit. Perhaps they finally came to their senses and realized the logic error Witwer originally made. This is not stated or suggested.

This is the only other (apart from the first one, about the meeting) plot error in the film that is bigger than a small glitch, which are virtually impossible to avoid.

Plot deviation: The mall sequence with Agatha demonstrates abilities that deviate from anything that has to do with the plot of the movie. In this sequence she has the ability to predict the weather forecast and to tell another woman that her boyfriend knows that she's having an affair. These abilities slightly deviate from those she is said to have earlier in the movie.

Plot deviation: Once again Agatha demonstrates powers, which alter the time continuum rules of the movie in a way that is either confusing or misleading to the audience. It lends credence to the theory that the precogs are capable of seeing alternate timeline scenarios or dimensions. And if this is the case then what is to prevent the precogs from showing Anderton a vision of the future that is not a result of him seeing the future. As long as the images that they showed him have Agatha in the room we know that the precogs are seeing a future where Anderton is aware of his future. The plot of the movie makes much more sense if the precogs are only capable of seeing a future where Anderton would be aware of his future. However if they are capable of seeing alternate timelines as Agatha demonstrates in Anderton's home then why don't they see a vision where Anderton kills Crow without using Agatha to get there? This is unanswered. It is possible that Agatha only evokes this ability for the Andertons' personal and long term benefit and the machine the precogs are hooked up to at the Temple eliminates these type of improbable scenarios through a complex mathematical formula. Perhaps we should look to a Beautiful Mind for explanation?

As someone else said, there's nothing to prevent them from seeing non-murder futures. Also, don't forget the drugs they kept the precogs loaded down with in the temple.

Unclear Plot: At this point it is unclear if Anderton realizes he will be apprehended and gives his wife everything she needs to get him out of jail and find who is really guilty. ?We see that Anderton leaves his eyeball with his wife so there must have been some planning on his part.

He didn't know (at least that it would be there), as shown by his surprise at the arrival of precrime and lack of leaving. As for his telling her of the case, this can easily be attributed to our need for discussion. Humans want to tell stories; the telling of a case you're currently being hunted for is an extreme example. As for the eyeballs, she probably found them (though I think this could have been shown). He obviously didn't take them, and precrime didn't find them. My guess is that they were in his car.

Plot Hole: Anderton has no way of knowing that the precogs ever detected a murder when he presents this choice to Burgess. If Burgess restrained himself and there was never a precog alert then it would prove absolutely nothing. Anderton presenting this ultimatum suggests that he is aware of the precrime warning which there is no explanation of in the film.

Sure he does: the precogs NEVER gave a false negative except (perhaps) when Agatha wasn't there. Sometimes a false negative was created when it was mistaken for an echo, but the precogs never failed to spot a murder that DID take place; only spotted ones that did not.

[Guest]

hmm, I have to agree with some of the plot holes here, but I still loved the film. BTW, have any of you read the original short story by Philip K. Dick? It is totally different. The military is behind making PreCrime fail, Anderton is described as old and fat, Anderton kills the general of the military faction that was going to prove precrime didn't work just to save his creation. He was therefore banished to a distant planet after making a deal with Witwer). Go grab the book, its a good read. I have a book of short stories by Dick , and all of them are excellent. Oh, another thing, minority report was written by Dick in 1954. Heh, the precogs spit out their data on punchcards.

[Morn 8]

Bah.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

God, I HATE it that I have to wait another one and a half months until I can watch this film

-Chris

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I didn't see a happy ending, just a rather logical one. Two people seperated by the death of their child, finding a way to repair their relationship. I does happen. It doesn't mean its happy, just truthful. A far better ending than his previous film which featured at least 3 perhaps 4 endings, and none of them satisfying.

[Morn 8]

False endings are fun.

[chs058 0]

I suffer with you Chris. bawling

And I hate it not to be able to see this film until october. :evil:

[Guest]

How about everything turned out wonderful for the main character and the "bad guy" is dead.

Everything turned out wonderful for Anderton? His son is still dead. His good friend and boss is dead. He is out of a job. That which he built his career helping to build and refine has been disbanded. Sure he and his ex wife mend their problems as best they can and get back together but that HAPPENS. And the birth of the new child will still never replace Sean. None of this sounds to me like everything is wonderful for Anderton.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Strilo makes a great point.

Good to see him post.

Joe