Jump to content

*** Urgent Star Wars DVD News ***


Recommended Posts

I have just viewed portions of the new Star Wars DVD and while I won't go into specifics over visual changes (I saw some that have not been covered yet) and I won't go into detail regarding all of the audio changes, as a fan of John Williams and his music for this movie, I feel I have to point out immediately an absolutely disgraceful, amateurish and negligent mixing issue. When the X-Wing fighters do their first dive towards the Death Star and the music builds up to a crescendo (1:11 into "The Battle of Yavin" on the RCA CDs) the music inexplicably is dialled down to silence during the grand charge. After a few moments it's brought back up a little, but the damage has been done and the scene and score continue to play out, only not as powerfully as they should.

This pivotal action moment has been dramatically destroyed and is certainly cause for a recall. The true unfortunate part about this is that it is merely the icing on the cake for a set that is riddled with amateurish, offensive, disturbing and incompetent sound work through out the entire picture. Had this one issue been all, that would be something else. Star Wars is a film I know very well, and while I've been critical of everything done to this film since 1981, I think it is now really fair to say that the movie I know of is quite dead.

There is more. You will not believe how bad this has gotten. I am not exaggerating. This is horrendous. Don't believe the reviews that are out there. I'll get to it all in a few days.

Neil

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 388
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I don't understand. This is a John Williams board and I've just told everyone that a classic John Williams score for one of his most famous (if not his most famous score) has been drastically and horribly tampered with. This is no joking matter. This is a complete and total destruction of a film I thought many of us loved. I feel almost sick about this thing.

Neil

Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't understand.  This is a John Williams board and I've just told everyone that a classic John Williams score for one of his most famous (if not his most famous score) has been drastically and horribly tampered with.  This is no joking matter.  This is a complete and total destruction of a film I thought many of us loved.  I feel almost sick about this thing.

Neil

No one disputes that a perversion is taking place. But one can view this in different ways. I do not see this as tampering with the Star Wars score - merely the tampering of its use in the film. The score itself will never change. Further, no one likes the changes taking place, but viewing the film as being destroyed just allows the OT to fade away. If we want to talk about current destruction of Star Wars, we should talk about Episode 3.

And to take a step back further, we are writing this on September 11 at 9am.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a hideous change. The fantastic statement of the Force theme as the X-Wings dive and attack has been completely dialled out! I'm completely stunned by this, and can see no reason at all for this change. Was it intentional or accidental, I wonder?

Link to post
Share on other sites

For the most part I've been a supporter of Lucas (see my current sig) but I have always cried foul as loud as anybody concerning his treatment of the music. I was as mad about the prequel music issues as anybody. And as far as this is concerned I'll get in line with everyone else here to give Lucas a piece of my mind that he won't like. But there is a history with Lucas and Ben Burtt screwing with the scores, and I agree that this is disappointing, but not shocking.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't understand.  This is a John Williams board and I've just told everyone that a classic John Williams score for one of his most famous (if not his most famous score) has been drastically and horribly tampered with.  This is no joking matter.  This is a complete and total destruction of a film I thought many of us loved.  I feel almost sick about this thing.

Neil

It had already misplaced music back in 1977...

So the destruction has been fullfilled, not destroyed with this one change.

Maybe Lucas is just making so many changes that the orginal version will be a must release...

Luke, who wonders how Neil will react when A New hope gets its Imperial march :?

Neil, think about this. The film with chopped music is Episode IV: A New Hope. Not Star Wars, that movie you will always will see as it was meant to be in your video-laserdisc-Laserdisc DVD rip. And the DVD image quiality has nothing to do with how it was meant to be seen. (remember you wanted SW with Stereo and Mono versions appart from the 5.1) It has been sharpened surely, to match the prequels, so i think that the Laserdisc will have the most true experience of it. I hope im helping you with this... :?

Luke, who would have liked the scores not been tampered with :music:

Link to post
Share on other sites
It had already misplaced music back in 1977...

If I'm not mistaken, only one entire cue was dropped from the film originally ("Dianoga"). Sure other parts were edited to fit the movie, but this is routine. But the edits were never particularly jarring or useless. It was well crafted.

So the destruction has been fullfilled, not destroyed with this one change.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Maybe Lucas is just making so many changes that the orginal version will be a must release...

It's been a must release since 1997.

Luke, who wonders how Neil will react when A New hope gets its Imperial march  :?

I'm past caring for his changes. He could add strippers to the cantina and I just wouldn't care. This horrible DVD version is the final nail in Star Wars' coffin.

Neil, think about this. The film with chopped music is Episode IV: A New Hope. Not Star Wars, that movie you will always will see as it was meant to be in your video-laserdisc-Laserdisc DVD rip. And the DVD image quiality has nothing to do with how it was meant to be seen. (remember you wanted SW with Stereo and Mono versions appart from the 5.1) It has been sharpened surely, to match the prequels, so i think that the Laserdisc will have the most true experience of it. I hope im helping you with this... :?

You realize by accepting horrible, nonsensical changes like these you're only demonstrating to everyone that you are satisfied with less. Star Wars was a classic. It's gone now. It's been replaced by something with that name, but it's not the same.

Luke, who would have liked the scores not been tampered with :music:

Then ignore this release, because not only is it missing music, the music edits are worse than ever.

Neil

Link to post
Share on other sites

The musical mistreatment bothers me more than anything at this point. Lucas?s treatment of Williams? music ranges from annoying to downright shortsighted and disrespectful. The AOTC conveyor belt scene is only one example where Lucas treats the music as if he were on some sort of vindictive power trip. Its no wonder that JW said that scoring films can be ?soul-destroying? or something to that effect. As for the latest news, unfortunately Stefancos? hurricane analogy is dead-on.

I don?t like the other changes to the movies but I?ve come to realize that even the untampered, original triology doesn?t seem as good to me now. As a kid, it didn?t matter if the movies were flawed, Mark Hammill couldn?t act, etc. because the movies had taken on some sort of unhealthy religious significance. They tapped into my imagination in a way that?s difficult to make sense of now. It just doesn?t matter that much anymore except from a preservationist standpoint.

- Adam

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are we 100% sure that this is true? Have several discs been checked for this? I'm asking because maybe it is a flaw in your disc, Neil.

I will give it the benefit of the doubt until I hear it with my own ears. But if it is true, then I will be just as upset.

I'll say this about the SE's. Sometimes change is good, but not everything needs to be farted around with. I'm cool with cleanup of graphics and the like, but when the story has been changed, sometimes it's ok, sometimes very bad.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Are we 100% sure that this is true?  Have several discs been checked for this?  I'm asking because maybe it is a flaw in your disc, Neil.

A digital bit stream cannot change from one disc to another. Yes, I'm sure this is for real. The only flaw is the one the sound mixer made.

Neil

Link to post
Share on other sites

I share your sentiments, Neil. I think the changes have gone too far. Many fans loved Star Wars just the way it was. I was one of them. I was thrilled when the deleted scenes were included in 1997 although the audio changes were a complete turn off.

I do recall Lucas once quoting a famous film maker that "films are never completed. They're only abandoned". Notice I didn't say ANOTHER famous film maker.

I wish Lucas would get over this complex his has about his Star Wars films being incomplete!

Dean

Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't understand.  This is a John Williams board and I've just told everyone that a classic John Williams score for one of his most famous (if not his most famous score) has been drastically and horribly tampered with.  This is no joking matter.  This is a complete and total destruction of a film I thought many of us loved.  I feel almost sick about this thing.

Whoa... to my eyes, this statement (and many others that appeared about Star Wars in this board) is another confirmation that many of you (especially Americans) take STAR WARS waaaay too seriously. Calm down, people. It's only a movie! I'm pissed off too about all this tinkerings on a classic movie, but I do not feel "betrayed" nor "raped" in my childhood memories and in my fondness anout this movie. I would have preferred a DVD with the original version (and one day or another it will be released for sure, so you don't need to fool or go sick :shakehead:), but personally I don't care about all this buzz created around these new DVD editions. The STAR WARS movies are classics, movies that have, and always will, their place in the history of American cinema.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would write something, but Lord Maurizio just said nearly word for word my thoughts exactly.

I'm not a fan of the changes either guys. But what will any of us get by whining and complaining about them? Let Lucas tinker with his movies. They're HIS movies. He could blow up Tatooine, put Jar Jar in the originals, and have Luke turn to the dark side. Star Wars is HIS shit.

Instead of despairing over it, let's enjoy what we've got, shall we? Many of us still have the original versions. We have our 2-CD John Williams sets.

I will reiterate what I've said before - if the fans had even ATTEMPTED to listen when Lucas said back in 97' about the VHS rereleases being, "THE LAST TIME THE ORIGINAL FILMS WILL BE AVAILABLE IN ANY FORMAT", maybe there wouldn't be so much uproar.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Neil, i think you didnt get what i meant.

You always say SW is not more. That's right, SW is the movie you saw back in 1977. You own A New Hope in Laserdisc and bootleg DVD. It was A New Hope Special Edition and Episode IV: A New Hope which are being changed and raped. I didnt wanted to say you to accept the changes. Just forget them, you like SW (ANH), not ANH SE or EPIV ANH.

Second, the destruction started in 1977, wich some little score changes, it was continued in 1997, and fullfilled in 2004 and in subsequent re-releases. You spoke as it that mere change in the score had destroyed the movie. It is not JUST that, and you have been saying that from 1997.

I just hope George Lucas gets out of his 'originals' madness and releases them, its so drepressing seeing you guys like that, it makes me feel guilty for not feeling it that way :shakehead:

Link to post
Share on other sites
From what I know the italian,german etc. language versions have not been edited, but I´m not 100% sure

I know for sure that the Italian version of the movies will retain the original and excellent dubbing. They didn't re-dub the films for the Special Edition in 1997 either, so I think they'll use the 5.1 mix of those versions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is my list of sound changes. This is all in reference to changes made to the original film, except in a few instances I've pointed out differences also from the 1993 re-mix. Some of these new sounds obviously were heard in the 1997 re-mix, some are new to this mix. I've also included a few picture changes, but I feel they have been covered everywhere, while the sound mix has been virtually ignored. I have not noted any changes to specific SE shots (such as the destruction of Alderaan) since these shots are entirely new.

The 1954 recording of the Fox logo is still played though it sounds very distorted.

The new Lucasfilm logo is shown.

The ?Star Wars? title card starts moving much too fast in relation to the original and can be seen ?shifting gears? as it gets smaller and slows down.

New explosions can be heard over the opening shot.

The foley in this mix is very loud and in your face. Not subtle in anyway. Note Threepios footsteps. They've always been there, just never this loud.

The sound of the ship docking has some revised sound.

The shirts of the rebel troopers change colors. They were always gray before. In some shots now they are blue.

Vaders voice has been re-processed throughout the entire film to get him to match the sequels.

When Artoo opens the door to the escape pod, the button he pushes buzzes.

The laser blast that convinces Threepio to get in the escape pod was re-done in 1993. It is the same sound effect as a lamp blowing up in Raiders of the Lost Ark. This effect is also heard later in the movie.

When Vader is talking to the ?Second Commander? (?Lord Vader, the battle station plans are not aboard this ship!?) the room in the background makes beeping noises. For fun, I?ll point out that this actor has the same voice as General Dodonna at the end of the movie. I suspect that the ?Second Commander? is dubbed.

When Artoo is shot by the Jawas and falls over a tremendous bass impact has been mixed in.

The restraining bolt being installed makes a different sound.

Artoos arrival inside the sand crawler makes a new sound.

You now hear the sand crawler start up as it starts to move.

Later, you hear the sand crawler come to a stop. Threepio then says, ?We?ve stopped? before telling Artoo to wake up.

The sound of Threepio rising from the oil bath has been augmented.

The lunch scene with Beru and Owen has some new foley (Beru?s chair makes a sound now). This is a quiet scene and you can literally hear the faders being brought down after every line of dialogue. Dailogue does not sound integrated in this scene.

Beru?s pronunciation of ?father? has been re--done......again.

Luke?s land speeder can be seen in the long shot from the sand peoples point of view. Previously it was just a white speck moving.

The clanking of the sand persons gaffi stick is heard in this mix.

The Krayt Dragon sound that Ben uses to scare the sand people has been re-done. It almost sounds like a police siren at first. Definitely sounds artifical as opposed to the older, more organic sound.

The light sabers have not been re-processed to match the sound heard in the prequels.

In this mix it?s very clear that the bartender has been dubbed. It was not as obvious before.

When Luke is thrown into the table, it makes an all new sound effect.

When the stormtroopers walk into the bar they can be heard saying, ?Undertand you had some trouble in here?. This is heard under Hans, ?Looks like somebody?s beginning to take an interest in your handiwork.? line.

Alien sound effect is missing just before Threepios line, ?I would much rather have gone with Master Luke than stay here with you.?

The music edit just after the Jabba scene is pretty bad. The music just starts. Also Bens line ?If the ships as fast as he?s boasting we ought to do well? is different than the original mix. It sounds edited together here.

A quick dissolve is missing between the shot of the spy and the interior entrance of Docking Bay 94. It is a hard cut now.

The spy makes some more sounds before informing the stormtroopers of where Luke and Ben are.

There are new explosion sound effects in the shoot out in Docking Bay 94.

?You would prefer another target? A military target?? both sound crystal clear. ?Then name the system!? is clearly from the old mix. Right in the middle of the line there is a quality shift. This happens through out the entire movie, but this may be the most obvious. It almost feels like a game, wondering if the next line is going to be the new clear dialogue or the older sounding dialogue. Obviously, there is a lack of consistency here and it?s jarring throughout the film. This is problably the worst feature of this new mix.

When the Falcon arrives at Alderaan there is some very deep bass. However, when the Falcon is captured by the Death Stars tractor beam, deep bass is missing that was heard in the 1993 mix. However there is a lot of sound of the cockpit shaking.

Also in the 1993 mix, the sound of the TIE fighter shooting at the Falcon could be heard. That?s not here nor was it in the original mix.

The PA systems line, ?Close all outboard shields? sounds different.

Just before Han and company come out of the secret compartments, the two inspecting stormtroopers stop at the exit ramp and one of them says, ?There?s no one here.?.

When Luke exits out of the Falcon and taps his stormtrooper helmet, static can be heard.

The dialogue keeps changing during the command office scene, between the clear dialogue and the older sounding dialogue.

The computer in the detention block scene makes new noises.

When Han, Luke and Chewie are shooting the cameras in the cell block area, the explosions are all re-done. There is also some new blaster fire added. When Han shoots the console, his blaster is much louder now then it was before.

The explosion as the stormtroopers blast into the cell block is much louder and has more bass.

When Leia shoots the hatch to get into the garbage chute, the explosion is different.

Chewie pounding on the door of the trash compactor makes new sounds.

The famous blooper of the stormtrooper walking into the door has now been punctuated with a loud ?clunk? sound effect. What was once a tough to see mistake is now pointed ot for everyone to see.

When Ben is turning off the tractor beam (I guess this is what he?s doing since the display is no longer in English) some sound effects that were heard at Bespin in The Empire Strikes Back and in ALIEN are mixed in here.

The creature sound effects after they get out of the trash compactor are different.

When Leia fires her blaster during the chasm crossfire, it no longer sounds like Dirty Harry?s .44 magnum. This chasm also has the ALIEN/Bespin sound effect.

When Luke throws the grappling hook, it makes a ?whizzing through the air? sound effect.

When they are shouting for Luke to come on board the Falcon (after Ben?s death) Leia now says, ?Luke, come on!?. Previously, it was just ?Come on!?.

Music reverb heard during the fight with the TIE Fighters is gone.

During the TIE Fighter fight, there is a long shot of the Falcon and you can see red blaster fire coming from it. There is now sound there to match.

During the first dive towards the attack on the Death Star, key music has been dialled out for a few moments.

?He?s on your tail? line from the SE mix is not heard here.

New sounds can be heard in Red Leaders cockpit as his ship is failing.

When Red Leaders engine is hit by blaster fire, it now makes the same sound as a lamp blowing up in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

As Han, Luke, and Leia walk off after the battle, new crowd cheering effects can be heard.

Neil

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can just about appreciate everything you mentioned Neil. It even sounds like some of the "fixes" might be subtle improvements. (Obviously excepting the shifts in sound quality during dialogue). I will never understand why the music is faded down in the Death Star battle however. This is not only one of the finest moments of the score, it is also one of the cleverest pieces of movie music ever written IMO. The last 10 minutes of Star Wars is a superb example of how music and images can merge beautifully, and how leitmotivic development can be effectively used in a film score. Why would anyone tamper with this????

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.