*** Urgent Star Wars DVD News ***

[Frank Vincent 234]

So, guys... has it bee confirmed that Star Wars (ANH) is the only one with the reversed rear music problem?

Yes. I listenend to all three films and only A New Hope has the reversed rear music problem.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

The music is fine on ESB and RotJ.

BTW, I think people are mixing things up. The deletion of the Force theme in the battle of Yavin is a creative decision. It's one of the stupidest in a long line of fuck-ups on the revising of this film, but it was done for creative purposes. Like it or not, there was a reason for it. It is not a defect. Same thing for goes for new sound-effects and the deletion of old ones.

The music swap, however, is a glitch. And a big one at that. It is a 124-minute flaw that should never have happened.

- Marc

These problems a

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

What the hell is everyone talking about? I heard the Force Theme loud and clear during the Battle of Yavin on the DVD. As for the flipping of the music, I don't know what that means exactly. What do you mean "flipped"? The music sounded fine to me. Yet, there might be something I'm missing on my Dolby Surround ProLogic system.

[fommes 153]

In your surround channels, the music that's coming out of your left rear speaker should be coming out of your right rear speaker, and vice versa. As a consequence, the same instruments can sometimes be heard in your left front speaker and right rear speaker simultaneously, and vice versa.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Got me buggered how you guys noticed this. I'm still not hearing it.

[knight_of_ni 0]

Greetings knight of ni. Welcome to our board. I was on a Python kick for the past month.

What do you mean you were on a kick? Sorry, my english knowledge is limited...

Thanks, nice to be here!!

Drax, if you listen close, you 'll notice that the music in many parts is heard mostly on the surround channels. That alone is very irritating, even if you don't notice the "flipped" channels...

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Perhaps the Australian version doesn't have the problem, Drax? I'll hopefully be getting the set soon, so I'll check too.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

Drax, Pro-Logic won't pick this up. Pro-Logic's rear surrounds are basically mono. You need to listen to it on a Dolby Digital 5.1 system, where the rear channels are different channels, kind of like stereo in the rear speakers. 5.1 and Pro-Logic are two different things, 5.1 being superior. The flipped music, to me, isn't a complete and total travesty, but it appears to be a total clumsy goof for supposed top-notch professionals working on one of (if not) the most eagerly awaited DVDs ever.

Meanwhile, The trench music is there, but it's muted and almost completely drowned out by sound effects in the English version, but it's fine on the French version, and reportedly on others.

And, you heard it here, the Empire and Jedi sound mixes are fine. Also, I finally could CLEARLY hear that little tiny snippet of unreleased Ewok Battle music in Jedi. Always hard to hear in VHS. Pretty cool.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

If you watch it on a regular tv without a home theatre system it sounds pretty normal.

Joe, who might get a home theatre system this Christmas, still trying to decide. Might go with a cheapie for now.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Are you buying home cinema to hear the DVDs (which you seem to own ) as they are intended?

From purist to geek just in 5 mins - Ian Malcom

Luke, who surely is wring in everything (am i right? )

[King Mark 3,631]

No,my appartment neibors will kill me if I put a 5.1 system.I listen through headphones.

K.M.Getting some Grado SR60's now that he finally heard them on demo

[Lurker 5]

We're on the IMDB!!!!!!........(sort of).....

Congratulations John for helping to get the word out there!

That can be found, for now, here.

Neil

[John Crichton 4]

All will bow down to the power of JWFAN!!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Today IMDB.com.

Tomorrow... the world!!!!

- Marc,

[Eplicon 53]

Until Lucasfilm cries out uncle and admits the problem, I hope enough people take issue with it so they will offer a replacement disc. I really doubt this is a creative issue, particularly if it does not exist on other regions.

My main beef is that the loss of the music at the beginning of the attack takes away an important part of the leitmotif. "Ben's Theme" (as it was called from 1977 until the release of TESB, which then became the Force theme) was meant to be symbolic of his values from the days of the Old Republic. He sacrificed himself so Luke and his friends could escape, so that the rebels could get the plans and destroy the Death Star. Because he is now gone, they are taking up his fight, so it was appropriate we heard this heroic version of the theme when the X-Wings at the BEGINNING of their campaign against the Empire, not midway into the battle like some afterthought!

[hoby12 0]

This is turning into a government conspiracy. I mean face it this is obviously a mistake ridden release of ANH. Which is a shame because Lucas finally did come out with this at a reasonable price with some nice extras. He most likely could have charged another 25 bucks for this set and get away with it. I guess if they admit the mistake and offer a refund disc - that is gonna cost MAD BUCKS!!!! Of course they are gonna claim its an artistic decision. I just cannot understand how this could happen. You would figure with the most hyped DVD release of all time they would have some one proofing the damn movie before they pressed the DVDs. Its cool that we all like the star wars music and all - but there should not be mistakes on something like this! - no matter who the composer. I feel like taking it back just because its an inferior disk (and my box is fd up - see previous page).

[Morlock 11]

8O

[Eplicon 53]

I think it is clearly a case of Lucasfilm trying to sugar coat the fact there is some kind of problem which they'd rather not talk about for now and spoil the sales. On the other hand, it wasn't revealed who this Lucasfilm source was that claimed everything was done for specific reason and was intentional, etc. For all we know, it might have been answered by some secretary or temp work reading off a script for situations like this. (This is why outsourcing sucks big time when it comes to customer support; questions are never specificaly answered and you are given a blanket response to cover everything.)

I have trouble believing the music was meant to be dialed out like that since on the other discs, where there are big battles, the music and sound effects still go hand-in-hand as they did over 20 years ago. It's as if someone bumped into one of the control knobs and they were too busy focusing on everything else that it went unnoticed. I mean, some of the fans' response to this controversy was something to the effect that they didn't notice the music being there on the earlier issues because it seemed too drowned out to their ears, so it felt like they weren't missing anything now.

[Lurker 5]

The blanket response we got out of Lucasfilm seems to be written to address the new sound effects and dialogue that creep into the movie now and then, and never had a defect in mind.

Bill Hunt, who got this response from Lucasfilm, had a tour with THX a day or two later. I'm sure he was spineless enough not to push the issue any further.

I'm certain we are going to get an answer at some point on this.

Neil

[Foxfan 128]

If they do repress the discs, I hope they also take the opportunity to fix the damn contrast problem they added to all three films. They purposely darkened the film to make the dark gray areas artificially look black. This is horrible! On screen "blacks" should NEVER be dark enough to match the black bars. It's distracting when you can't remain focussed on the actual frame. They did the same on the Episode II DVD. Ep I and the previous trilogy VHS WS tapes were OK.

[The Prick vs The DD 0]

If they do repress the discs, I hope they also take the opportunity to fix the damn contrast problem they added to all three films. They purposely darkened the film to make the dark gray areas artificially look black. This is horrible! On screen "blacks" should NEVER be dark enough to match the black bars. It's distracting when you can't remain focussed on the actual frame. They did the same on the Episode II DVD. Ep I and the previous trilogy VHS WS tapes were OK.

FINALLY!

Someone actually agrees with me. I've been shouting and shouting about this so-called picture 'quality' and all keep saying it's terrific.

They've turned Hollywood on us where Star Wars wasn't....look at all the colors...OOOOOHHHH....look at that nice contrast....OOOOOOHHHH.

The beauty of Star Wars was it had relatively natural colors, now they've made it into a cartoon, making all oranges red, fiddled with the contrast (dark is black and light is too bright a white), made a blushing skincolor you only get while having sex. Basically, they now are beginning to have the same problems Lord of the Rings has. They feel they must accentuate things, must get involved with nature's colors. Wrong, accentuating is for art, not when you're trying to recreate 'reality'.

Let's give an example of what I'm talking about here:

As you can see this example comes from the same DVD as this one:

Same set, different look. Now I know a picture from a menu (first picture) isn't always the same thing but still it's a good example. Look at the first picture, 'the way it was meant to be seen'. See the nice orange roundish sun? Now take a look at the same sun in the movie (second picture)...it's not only changed color to a deep to me more unnatural red, it has ALSO lost its shape....the roundness of a sphere is gone. The orange sun has a more brighter spot at the top with slightly more darkened edges making it more round. The red is just a pure red dot in the screen...no differentiations to be found....it's not even a sphere...it's just a circle....be hypnotized by the red dot. Is Luke being sniped with a laser gun you'd wonder?

As you can see, the picture itself also is darker where it's dark, destroying a lot of details in the process. It's a good example of how fiddling with the contrast and creating deeper colors are destroying details and messing with colors making it cartoony. Perhaps some of these changes already came about in previous releases, and was still swallowble, but now it's getting ridiculous.

Don't understand why so many people think this is a good release. I think this is an amateuristic and childish approach to moviemaking.

Still enjoying it of course, hey it's Star Wars.

[Eplicon 53]

Admittedly, the picture quality is a wee bit darker than I'm accustomed to, although those who have those fancy home theatre setups say the picture looks great. It was much brighter on the older, pre-SE, even pre-THX, home releases. It'll just need some time to get used to, I suppose.

I'm going to lay off the hoopla of the Star Wars DVD being "Ben Burtt's revenge" for now until Lucasfilm says something more definitive. Their statement from last week could have easily referrred to ANY one of their movies. You just fill in the blank. If someone had written to them complaining that THX-1138 sounded different or wondered why such and such a change was done, they probably would have said the same exact thing.

Still, while I haven't been too particularly fond of Ben Burtt's editing prowess when it comes to the prequels, in the commentary tracks he is rather complimentary of Williams in many regards. Yes, he does have his say about how the music can sometimes interfere with the sound design. But as an artist, that is his prerogative. I did agree with some of his points, such as how Episodes IV and V did not need music for the lightsaber battle since the sabers themselves were like musican instruments. And with ROTJ, he spoke fondly of the cue when Luke is overcoming the dark side while fighting Vader. He did bring up one point that some of us remember: that choral music was one of the most requested pieces from the movie since it did not appear on the original LP at the time.

[Jeshopk 8]

What do you mean you were on a kick? Sorry, my english knowledge is limited...  

Thanks, nice to be here!!  

If someone says "I'm on a health kick" it means they have been focused on their health recently (exercise, eating, etc.)

Being on a Monty Python kick, means I was focused on Monty Python recently, watching their movies, reading interviews, and generally encompassed in all things Python.

I think the DVDs have started people on a "Star Wars kick" or an "Anti George Lucas kick"!

Jesse

[Jim Ware 526]

Possible replacement discs in the pipeline?

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/sh...819#post2399819

[knight_of_ni 0]

Being on a Monty Python kick, means I was focused on Monty Python recently, watching their movies, reading interviews, and generally encompassed in all things Python.

Thanks! I guess I'm always on a Python kick...

I think the DVDs have started people on a "Star Wars kick" or an "Anti George Lucas kick"!

Or a "Who do you think you 're fooling" kick...

[QMM 4]

I just ordered the DVD's this morning so I'll be able to see all the mistakes everybody has been saying there are

Max-Who also ordered the October Sky soundtrack

[Lurker 5]

Here is yet another screw up from the DVD. I was hoping that the French language track would be the old music track with the new effects track, since it still has "Ben's Theme" audible during the Death Star dive. Sadly it didn't turn out that way. Here is a quick clip I took from the French track as Luke and Ben walk into Docking Bay 94. I did not include the original mix since we should all be familiar with this music and because I don't feel like devoting much more energy to this. Plus, the music is just an audible mess here. Right click it and save it to your computer.

Let just face it, nothing is right about the audio on this disc. Anywhere.

Neil

[flytrumpet 0]

Sorry..you guys are just crazy nuts...the movies are not meant to be a concert..if you want to listen to the music..put your soundtracks CD's.

There are enough versions of the music to satisfy everyone.By the way...nobody ever mentioned it..but the new recording of Star Wars(prague orchestra) has some good stuff..not all for sure..but some good tracks...

Anyway...i guess Star Wars is not entetainment for most of you...good thing it is for tens of millions of other people...keep dreaming if you expect any changes to that release..i have a feeling it won't happen.

Take care

Richard

[John Crichton 4]

Here is yet another screw up from the DVD.  I was hoping that the French language track would be the old music track with the new effects track, since it still has "Ben's Theme" audible during the Death Star dive.  Sadly it didn't turn out that way.  Here is a quick clip I took from the French track as Luke and Ben walk into Docking Bay 94.  I did not include the original mix since we should all be familiar with this music and because I don't feel like devoting much more energy to this.  Plus, the music is just an audible mess here.  Right click it and save it to your computer.

My God, they're speaking French! But that mini-elephant-trunk dude is still speaking in his mini-elephant-trunk dude squeaky language!

....Oh wait, that's not what we're listening for, is it? :?

[Lurker 5]

Sorry..you guys are just crazy nuts...the movies are not meant to be a concert..if you want to listen to the music..put your soundtracks CD's.

Listening to the CD and watching the film are two different experiences. When I watch the film I expect the film to be presented in a certain way....with a competent mix. This disc doesn't offer that.

There are enough versions of the music to satisfy everyone.

That may be the case, but there is only one legit DVD out there, and it's a mess sonically.

By the way...nobody ever mentioned it..but the new recording of Star Wars(prague orchestra) has some good stuff..not all for sure..but some good tracks...

It probably hasn't been mentioned since its not a "new recording" but a new compilation album made up of mostly tracks released on many previous JW albums from Silva, perhaps even all of them.

i guess Star Wars is not entetainment for most of you...

Not this DVD, I'm afraid. It has too many errors to be enjoyable. Not one audio track gets the film right.

good thing it is for tens of millions of other people

Millions of people smoke too, does that mean its good?

keep dreaming if you expect any changes to that release..i have a feeling it won't happen.

What can I say, I'm an optimist.

Neil

[hoby12 0]

Sorry..you guys are just crazy nuts...the movies are not meant to be a concert..if you want to listen to the music..put your soundtracks CD's.  

There are enough versions of the music to satisfy everyone.By the way...nobody ever mentioned it..but the new recording of Star Wars(prague orchestra) has some good stuff..not all for sure..but some good tracks...  

Come on this is Hollywood, people get fired here for taking the wrong parking spot. There are plenty of people qualified and happy to fill in the gaps. Mistakes like this are unexcusable. But yes I still think the movies are fun and one day I will get around to watching all three of them.

[flytrumpet 0]

Neil,

I know you have at heart the faith of the SW score..and i love it too..it's why i'm having a pro career in a symphony orchestra today.But...the meaning of the movies don't revolve around the score..i agree the score have made the movies what it is though...But still...Lucas has a different vision..if it wasn't for him..we would only be talking about Jaws....none of that succes would have happened for JW...

Let's relax..enjoy the movies the way Lucas wanted them..and let's listen to the many SW music recordings...

Also..the new Prague recording..new recording of some stuff...great rerecording of"Asteroid field" in my opinion...if not the best...

Regards

Richard

[TheMaulMan 0]

Neil, you know we all appreciate your passion for this, but you must also realize how most others will view it. All the mistakes you mention are indeed there, of course. I think others' frustration may come from the fact that you think the DVD has absolutely nothing going for it -- that these few mistakes have ruined the experience of the film entirely. To say that "nothing is right about the audio..." well, that's just wrong. Realistically, we have never heard Star Wars sound as spectacular as this. If you have a quality 5.1 setup, you are hearing Star Wars, both sound effects and score, with a clarity and power that you have never experienced. This is how you've been wanting to hear the film for your whole life.

Don't misunderstand me...the glitches in the dialogue quality and score suck. They are absolutely disappointments, no question. Overall though, they are like a few pimples on the face of a gorgeous girl...distracting at times and unfortunate, but the girl remains beautiful.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Neil can you put here or send me a PM with some dialogue in the Spanish version? I want to know if it is the version here...

[Jeshopk 8]

So I walk into Strawberry's record store, and the DVD is on all the monitors. Sound is on. Sound was good, but they had speakers everywhere (not proper for sure.) But it sounded good. And the picture quality on the ANH Tatooine scenes actually did make it much better than I'm used to. There is more continuity between the Lars scenes in AOTC and ANH, from the "look" of it and the colors. I think that will be neat for kids who option to see it 1 thru 6.

Overall, its great to see so much interest in Star Wars sustaining...enough, I hope, to release another version on HiDef with all these problems fixed. Hopefully the new Blue laser technology will afford enough space on the discs to include an OOT version. I bet it will, and if not, I'll buy the LDs.

[Lurker 5]

I think others' frustration may come from the fact that you think the DVD has absolutely nothing going for it -- that these few mistakes have ruined the experience of the film entirely.  To say that "nothing is right about the audio..." well, that's just wrong.

But there is nothing right with the audio. The music is screwed up for the entire running length of the film. That right there proves there is something wrong with the audio. The fact that the dialogue quality shifts constantly throughout the film, in ways it never did before, shows that there is a problem with the audio.

Realistically, we have never heard Star Wars sound as spectacular as this.

This track is not Star Wars. Star Wars never sounded this poor before.

If you have a quality 5.1 setup, you are hearing Star Wars, both sound effects and score, with a clarity and power that you have never experienced.  This is how you've been wanting to hear the film for your whole life.

Maybe this is how you wanted to hear the film. I was satisified with the original mix and even the 1985 and 1993 re-mixes. In retropspect, even the 1997 re-mix wasn't that bad. They are all preferable to to this new one.

Don't misunderstand me...the glitches in the dialogue quality and score suck.  They are absolutely disappointments, no question.  Overall though, they are like a few pimples on the face of a gorgeous girl...distracting at times and unfortunate, but the girl remains beautiful.

Something that is wrong for the entire length of the movie is inexcusable. That's like dating a gorgeous girl with a few pimples and is also a Nazi.

Neil

[Dr. Jones 0]

Hi! Just wanted to ask 2 questions:

1. Does the problem with the switched music in the rear channles only exist in the english audiotrack of the R1 version of the DVD Box or in every english audiotrack worldwide ( example: german version R2)?

2.I've read that the R2 german Audiotrack does not have dialed down music and switched rearchannles, is that true?

[Jeshopk 8]

That's like dating a gorgeous girl with a few pimples and is also a Nazi.

Painful flashback to my first girlfriend. LOL

[Justin 2]

That's like dating a gorgeous girl with a few pimples and is also a Nazi.

Painful flashback to my first girlfriend.

Oddly enough that was Lucas's first date as well.

Justin

[Jeshopk 8]

That's like dating a gorgeous girl with a few pimples and is also a Nazi.

Painful flashback to my first girlfriend.

Oddly enough that was Lucas's first date as well.

Justin

Perhaps then it was an hommage to his lost love... :cry:

[Eplicon 53]

Neil, have you thought about writing your findings to Roger Ebert's "Movie Answer Man" column? It's worth a shot to hear what Ebert has to say and maybe get it out to a wider audience. Just try to sum it up in a few sentences instead of overanalyzing the whole thing.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Wonder whatever happened to those reports that Temeura Morrison was re-doing all the Storm Trooper dialogue.

[Eplicon 53]

That was just fan speculation. Not all the troops are clones by ANH. The original clones didn't have that long of a life expectancy due to the growth acceleration in the original genetic designs. You have to take into consideration a lot of the troops by now came up through the Imperial Academy or were simply thrown into the services unwillingly a la the (U.S.) Civil War.

Since Jango is gone, the Empire either had to use whatever was left from the cloning facilities or they simply used Boba, since he is a "first generation" copy (and, an unaltered one at that). Of course, like making copies, you get more errors and less accuracy along the way.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Im happy the stormtroopers are not clones. It would destroy many EU stories. Most important it would be crap in the OT since there is no Stormtrooper equal to another, and Han-Luke cover would be very noticeable for imperials, and Leia would have not said that luke was too short...

[King Mark 3,631]

OK,just watched ANH.I think the movie looks and sounds great for the most part,except:

-the CGI Dewbacks and Rontos still look like shit,they should of upgraded those like they did Jabba.

-I think the dialed down fanfare in the death star attack was technical mistake,not on purpose.There's plenty of music-less moments in the Death Star battle to showcase the SFX,so I doubt Ben Burtt is personally responsible for this.

That's about the extent of my complaints.

K.M.

[hoby12 0]

I think that whole Jabba ANH scene sucks

[Jeshopk 8]

Yes, the CG will not even stand the test of time as long as dobby from HP2. In fact, it doesn't even stand the test of now.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Well I am glad to see Lucas at LEAST had the decency not to totally ruin the OT.

[Lurker 5]

Whenever I would question Ford Thaxton on the wrong takes used on Star Wars for the Anthology set, his response was always, "Lucasfilm approved it and it sold well". These DVDs were also approved by Lucasfilm and are selling well. Read into that anyway you wish.

Neil

[Trumpeteer 302]

After reading all of this, I'm soooooooooo glad I didn't waste $45.

Jeff -- saving up for the Disney new releases of "Aladdin" and "Mulan," which will undoubtedly be perfect