Return of the King EXTENDED EDITION Discussion

[QMM 4]

Quote

The Lord of the Rings fan site The One Ring.net has posted a new interview with New Line's Senior Vice President of Marketing, Matt Lasorsa, about plans for the Return of the King: Extended Edition.

The 4-disc version is due "just before Christmas 2004". Look for the extended version to be over four hours long, featuring extended scenes and dialogue, as well as new scenes involving Faramir, the fate of Saurman, the Mouth of Sauron at the Black Gate and more.

As far as a possible "Mega Box Set" of the extended versions of the whole Trilogy, it's at least 2 years away, and will likely feature all-new content created with Peter Jackson's participation.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I think I'll be waiting until then to buy the EEs. Jackson said he'd like to revisit the movies and have new material, but does this mean Shore having new material too? I hope so.

And Chris, have you had any more progress on your transcriptions for the RotK soundtrack? I know how much work it must be, but you've done a top effort so far!

[musicpete 1]

Aaaaah, finally someone else besides me is nagging Chris to finally finish his transcriptions for all three LOTR movies! I want them! I need them! I'm addicted! The complete Harry Potter transcriptions helped only for a short time... I need my preciousssssss...

[Morlock 11]

oy. I'm so sick of LoTR.

[fommes 153]

This has probably already been discussed in another thread, sorry for that, but I've read that the Gift pack of the EE of RotK will contain an extra DVD about Shore's symphony?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Yup.

[fommes 153]

Hey, Mark, I'm curious, how do you do that, those internet links replaced by other words?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Like this:

Yup.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I use a magic wand.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

So... let's see. What do we know is going to be in the RotK EE? This is probably not all, but this is what I for one know for sure.

Mind you, the discriptions are pretty extensive, so there are some major spoilers ahead. The scene discriptions have been whited out. Scenes with big spoilers have been printed bold.

* The Crossroads: Frodo and Sam come to the crossroads, and find the decapitated statue of the king. The title will be shown over this scene.

* The Voice of Saruman: Saruman's fate will be shown. The company comes up to Orthanc and talk with Saruman. Saruman refuses their offers and shoots fire out of his staff at them. Wormtongue wants to talk, but Saruman slaps him around. Wormtongue pulls out a knife and kills Saruman, who reportedly is to fall down onto a big spiky wheel. His Palantír will end up in the water. Legolas shoots Wormtongue.

* The Drinking Game: Gimli and Legolas have a drinking game in the Golden Hall

* Merry & Théoden: Merry pledges allegiance to Théoden before they leave Edoras. A shot of this was in the very first internet preview, and a large portion of the scene can be found among the extras on the Theatrical Cut DVD.

* Pippin & Faramir: In the theatrical cut, Pippin shows a lot of grief for Faramir, while we've hardly seen them speak to one another. We will see it in the EE, where Faramir talks about his family, and the two form a bond.

* Small Hobbits in a Big War: I don't know exactly where this goes, but I think there are scenes of both Merry and Pippin where they talk about how they feel they can do only very little. These are seperate scenes.

* Éomer & Éowyn 1: More stuff with these two, probably at Dunharrow, where they have "brother and sister moment."

* Aragorn & Éowyn: I'm guessing this is at Dunharrow. Éowyn lies in her tent and Aragorn comes to talk to her. When he moves away, she grabs his hand.

* The Paths of the Dead: I think Viggo Mortensen was the one who spoke about this scene. After the spot where the scene now ends, the ghosts disappear, and the Three Hunters are treated with an avalanche of skulls. Pictures of them shooting this have been around for over a year. Extending the scene seems alright, but personally, I always figured the skulls came before, because they seemed to have run an awful long way after they entered, and this would give them a reason. But then again, I suppose Aragorn knows better than I do, eh?

* The White Tree blossoms: When Pippin sees the funeral procession with Faramir, flowers appear on the White Tree. There's more than that, but this is all that I have seen.

* The Battle of the Pelennor Fields & The Siege of Gondor: A lot more stuff here. More Mûmakil and Nazgûl stuff. Also stuff of Orcs using a battering ram on the gates (before Grond). It looks like they actually manage to break through, but they are stopped. And lots, lots more.

* Gandalf vs. The Witch-King: A shot of this is in the theatrical trailer. Gandalf and Pippin ride through the city to stop Denethor from burning Faramir. But on their way, they find the Witch-King in their path. Gandalf tells him to return to the abyss, but the Witch-King replies "This is my hour!" and raises his sword, which bursts aflame. Then they face off of course, but I've seen nothing of that yet.

* Gothmog's fate: Éowyn will be killing more than just the Witch-King in the EE. She'll be the one to amputate some of Gothmog's nasty swellings. And then some.

* Éomer & Éowyn 2: Éomer finds Éowyn lying next to the body of Théoden after the battle of the Pelennor fields.

* Merry & Pippin: Merry's search for Pippin has been extended/altered. He now finds him at night.

* The Houses of Healing: Aragorn heals Éowyn. Merry is also there.

* Éowyn & Faramir: We'll get to see Éowyn and Faramir falling in love later on. Looks like this scene is also straight from the book.

* The Heir of Elendil: Aragorn reveals himself to Sauron in the Palantír. He shows Andúril.

* Frodo & Sam in Mordor: Again lots more. I'm not sure Sam's assault on Frodo's prison has been extended (I'm personally hoping it will, because it was such a memorable part of the book to me). I think I saw something like Sam approaching the sentinels that were in the book, but I'm not sure. But there is more of them in their armour. They have to go with a group of Orcs for a while (straight from the book), until they manage to escape. You can see behind-the-scenes footage of another scene on the TC DVD where they lose their gear, and Sam has to part with his cooking gear. There's also a scene at night where Sam sees the clouds parting for a moment and he says to Frodo that there's "light and beauty up there, that no shadow can touch," but Frodo remains asleep.

* The Mouth of Sauron: Here's a biggie. When the army of Men is at the Black Gates, before Mordor's army comes out, the Mouth of Sauron appears, talking with the Men. He will show them Frodo's mithril vest and tell them the Halfling has been captured. This of course puts Aragorn's "For Frodo." into a new perspective.

This probably isn't everything. We've seen more stuff with Elrond and Arwen for instance in the trailers that wasn't in the film. But anyway, I'm really looking forward to this. Hate that it's taking so long. The Christmas marathon is going to rock.

- Marc,

[QMM 4]

I'm looking forward to the Witchking fight and the Mouth of Sauron the most

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

So... let's see. What do we know is going to be in the RotK EE? This is probably not all, but this is what I for one know for sure.

I've been avoiding details because I don't want to be "film-spoiled", but your list is perfect in that way - it tells me all I want to know without telling too much.

I'm really looking forward to Saruman and the Mouth of Sauron (sure to have a great bit of McKellen acting).

Has it been confirmed that there will be no Denethor Palantir stuff? I was really expecting that. The portrayal of his character in the theatrical version was mostly weak, I was looking forward to having more depth to his character a lot.

Marian - :?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Yes. John Noble himself has said in an interview that they never shot any scenes concerning Denethor and his Palantír.

- Marc

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

That's a real shame.

Marian -

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Does anyone know when this is supposed to be released? I haven't read anything concerning a release date anywhere, and neither Buy.com nor Amazon have it listed for pre-order yet. I'm sure I ordered the previous two Platinum sets around August/early September in 2002/03. Anyone?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Rumored dates are either December 7th or December 14th. Check the LotR thread in the OT board for more info.

[woodwindmaster06 0]

www.dvdtown.com has the release dates full cover art, included is the running time somewhere around 4 hours I believe

[ChrisAfonso 186]

4:15

[John Crichton 4]

So 255 minutes compared to about 200 for the theatrical cut. That's a lot of new stuff. Cool.

John- wondering when we're going to get a release date for the complete scores.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Or 4:10 or so, I'm not sure. It was announced to have around 50 min. new material.

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

And hopefully a new stunning recording of The White Tree and Anduril for the fan club credits, in DTS and ready to be ripped by me.

Marian - who will make a CD or DVD with all the fan club credits cues once ROTK is out.

[Ren 75]

i can't wait to hear that stefan!!!!!!!! LOL

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Women :roll:

Marian- who wishes he had a more manly name, like Dick or Hilary.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Sweet! Thanks guys.

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

Marian - LOL

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Hey Marian, from which film is this quote?

"I want my cup back!"

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

I have no idea. But I'm sure you know this one:

"It's mine...my own...my precious."

Marian -

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Everybody wanna be like Steef.

Copycats.

[John Crichton 4]

Have you guys thought about why you have such reactions to the mugs? You love them a little too much? Maybe Andreas has a plan. Maybe after he has given out enough mugs he will create the One Mug to Rule Them All! Then where will you be, huh? Under the thrall of the Dark Lork Andreas, that's where! Beware the mugs!

John- taking the LotR metaphor to an insane level.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Wrong, the One mug has already been created, and is in my posession.

The others are mere trinkets, things for a child to play with.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Oh god. Steef has the One Mug. We're doomed.

- Marc,

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

No, he just doesn't want to accept that his early version is not yet perfected. As with the One Ring, the really powerful mugs were created later.

Marian - who has not yet tested the powers of his mug.

Drake 400 (Ron Goodwin)

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

So Steef has, like, The One Mug v. 1.00 beta?

[Moony10491 0]

On the Eowyn versus witch king note, the idea is that men can't kill the Witch King, only women. So yes, maybe a stab in the face was all it took, but the stab had to be dealt by a woman.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Yeah, something like that. Plus, Merry also gave him a bad injury, and I believe there was also something about the knife Merry was using (have to check the book).

Incidentally, the release date for The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King - Special Extended DVD Edition has been officially set for December 14th.

[John Crichton 4]

Yeah, something like that. Plus, Merry also gave him a bad injury, and I believe there was also something about the knife Merry was using (have to check the book).

WARNING: RANT AHEAD

The whole Eowyn killing the Witch King thing drove me nuts. It completely goes against Tolkien's world. The prophecy in the book is that by the hand of no Man would the Witch King be killed. In Tolkien's world, Eowyn IS a Man, she is of the race of Man. That is what the prophecy refers to. Her line "I am no man" is an affront to what Tolkien created.

Now Merry's sword, in the book, comes from a Barrow that houses tombs of lords from the lost realm of Arnor. The one that he got just so happened to be one that was forged at the hight of Arnor's wars with Angmar (lead by the Witch King), and was imbued with the power to kill Nazgul. In the book this was the culmination of Merry's entire story, he is the one who kills the Witch King and it's another case of Hobbits coming up and making a difference in the world for the first time.

But Phillpa Boyens (I see her hand behind this one) decided that Eowyn had to be a goddess or something, so they changed the story so that Eowyn is the one who made the kill, which has no basis in the book whatsoever. Everything else is right, Eowyn fights the Witch King, has her shield broken, and her arm is hurt. But after that she passes out and Merry uses the distraction of the fight to deal the Witch King his fatal blow. I have to point out that my interpretation of the book is that Tolkien makes it clear that despite all her good qualities, of which there are many, Eowyn's main fault is that she's a bit of a glory hog. She doesn't just want to do great things, she wants the glory that comes with it. This didn't come through in the movies very well, if at all.

Now I know plenty of people here will disagree with me on this, that's fine. But this is one change that bugged the hell out of me because it went contrary to the very rules of the world that Tolkien created.

Rant over.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

In the book Merry stabs the Witch King with the knife they got from the Barrow-Downs.

So passes the sword of the barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it so slowly long ago in the Noth-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of angmar and it's sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wiel;ded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.

In the film however, it's either the blade that Merry gets when he's with the Rohirrim, or something he picks up on the battlefield.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The whole Eowyn killing the Witch King thing drove me nuts. It completely goes against Tolkien's world. The prophecy in the book is that by the hand of no Man would the Witch King be killed. In Tolkien's world, Eowyn IS a Man, she is of the race of Man. That is what the prophecy refers to. Her line "I am no man" is an affront to what Tolkien created.

Not really, in the book Eowyn says more or less the same thing.

"But no living man am I! You look upon a women. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, i will smite you if you touch him."

Now Merry's sword, in the book, comes from a Barrow that houses tombs of lords from the lost realm of Arnor. The one that he got just so happened to be one that was forged at the hight of Arnor's wars with Angmar (lead by the Witch King), and was imbued with the power to kill Nazgul. In the book this was the culmination of Merry's entire story, he is the one who kills the Witch King and it's another case of Hobbits coming up and making a difference in the world for the first time.

True, but Merry does not actually kill the Witch King, the blade wounds him and breaks the spell that lay upon the witch-King, but it's Éowyn who finally finishes the job.

But Phillpa Boyens (I see her hand behind this one) decided that Eowyn had to be a goddess or something, so they changed the story so that Eowyn is the one who made the kill, which has no basis in the book whatsoever.

I disagree, she definatly kills the bugger.

Everything else is right, Eowyn fights the Witch King, has her shield broken, and her arm is hurt. But after that she passes out and Merry uses the distraction of the fight to deal the Witch King his fatal blow. I have to point out that my interpretation of the book is that Tolkien makes it clear that despite all her good qualities, of which there are many, Eowyn's main fault is that she's a bit of a glory hog. She doesn't just want to do great things, she wants the glory that comes with it. This didn't come through in the movies very well, if at all.

No the biggest fault is that Merry never aquires the Barrow blade, since the whoile sequence never happened in the films

Interestingly in the extended FOTR he and Pippin get blades from Lothlorien, and when I first saw that scene I figured he was gonna use that blade on the witch-king, which would make it more acceptable then some Rohirrim blade.

Now I know plenty of people here will disagree with me on this, that's fine. But this is one change that bugged the hell out of me because it went contrary to the very rules of the world that Tolkien created.

Rant over.  

I'm still a heck of a lot more bothered that they left Saruman out of the theatrical cut.

Geez, this film is running long, let's cut our villian out of it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

BTW, how do people feel about TTT and ROTK's depection of Sauron.

The lidless flaming eye on top of the Dark Tower does kinda come from Tolkiens writings, though at some point Gollum also states that there are 9 fingers on the hand of the Dark Lord.

The depiction of Sauron in the last 2 films does not really work for me.

The flaming eye does not look as menacing as it did in the Palantir, or Frodo's visions when he wore the Ring in FOTR.

The effects works just does not look convincing enough i guess, especially when Sauron spots a searchlight in ROTK.

This is unfortunate, since Sauron is supposed to be the ultimate evil in Middle Earth.

The final shot of Barad-Dur falling down and the Eye going nuclear is very good though.

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

Now I know plenty of people here will disagree with me on this, that's fine.

Indeed, for as Stefan has said, it IS Eowyn who kills him in the book.

Also, regarding the prophecy: I don't have it memorised, but I don't think it says no man *can* kill the Witch King. I think in theory, a man could kill him, but the prophecy says it won't be a man who kills him. Only the wording it a bit unclear, leading the Witch King to the assumption that he is immune against humans.

And I'm perfectly happy with the Eye in the movie. I was far more afraid of them making him "more physical" and coming out to fight Aragorn or something (as they apparently were planning to do at one point). What I do miss is the whole Denethor/palantir subplot. That made Sauron more present, Denethor a tragic character instead of a looney, and Aragorn an apt king with great willpower.

Christopher Lee? I'm immensely looking forward to his sequence in the EE, but I think cutting it from the theatrical cut was the right decision. He really is unimportant for the third movie, and I don't think they should have cut other stuff just to keep him in.

Marian -

Rambo: First Blood Part II (Jerry Goldsmith)

[John Crichton 4]

As far as Saruman goes I was much more disappointed that the final confrontation with him was left out of the end of TTT than the cut from RotK. Gandalf breaking Saruman's staff is what all of Book 3 (the first half of TTT) is leading to. They decided to make Helm's Deep the biggest thing, and it is a satisfying enough ending, but to me there is something missing. Once you get past that his non-appearance in RotK is more of an annoyance, and I'm looking forward to the scene in the EE.

As for Sauron, I'm sure that was something that Jackson and Co. were stuggling with immensely, how to show Sauron properly. Tolkien's descriptions were always vague since we never actually see him in the books, and you don't want to disappoint people by making the great enemy look weak or wimpy, or over the top. Given what they had to work with I think they did a fine job. And I agree with Marian too, Denethor was not handled properly in the movie.

And I have to say to, just to clarify, that I'm very much a "book purist", but I don't disagree with all the changes. I liked having the Army of the Dead come all the way to Minas Tirith insead of just helping Aragorn and Co. steal the Corsairs' ships. I also agreed with the cut of the whole journey of the Hobbits from the Shire to Bree, including Tom Bombadil. I think it would have bogged the movie down way too much.

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

I liked having the Army of the Dead come all the way to Minas Tirith insead of just helping Aragorn and Co. steal the Corsairs' ships.

Hmm. That's something I'm not too happy with. Though I'm mostly annoyed by the scene of the ghosts trying to bring down a Mumak in the background (that and Legolas' Mumak stunt are the two really stupid things in the movie...well, after Gandalf beating up Denethor that is...), but the entire Pelennor chapter in the book is so cinematic. I can still see Pippin watching the Pelennor from high up in the city in my head, and also Aragorn's fleet arriving with white sails and the Gondorian banner.

Oh, and while I'm complaining... I really do miss Gandalf's "Stand, Men of the West! Stand and wait! This is the hour of doom".

Marian -

Flesh+Blood (Basil Poledouris)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

well, after Gandalf beating up Denethor that is...

Lovely scene, well done.

Tolkien was spinning in his grave naturally, but no more then with Legolas' skate boarding action in TTT.

[John Crichton 4]

well, after Gandalf beating up Denethor that is...

Lovely scene, well done.

Tolkien was spinning in his grave naturally, but no more then with Legolas' skate boarding action in TTT.

LOL

I have a question too. Has anyone here read Christopher Tolkien's History of Middle-Earth series, specifically the LotR volumes? Are there any writings of Tolkien's that has a more specific description of what Sauron physically looks like during the War of the Ring than what's in LotR itself?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I have not read then, but if there is, would that description even be considered canonical?

[John Crichton 4]

Strictly technically I guess not, but it would be a nice insight into what was going on in his head since the descriptions in the book were so vague. Like the essays on the Istari and the Palantri in the Unfinished Tales. Are those not canon? I think they are, they add to what's in the books.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

If it was written by J.R.R Tolkien then it's certainly canon, i'm not sure how the books written by his son are considered.

[John Crichton 4]

If it was written by J.R.R Tolkien then it's certainly canon, i'm not sure how the books written by his son are considered.

Ah, I see the misunderstanding here. I was asking if there was anything written by J.R.R. Tolkein about Sauron, not his son. The History series is loaded with his old writing, notes, essays, etc., right? I wouldn't consider anything written by his son canon either unless there was a writing from Tolkien the elder to back it up.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

As far as I know the History series were written by his son, very carefully detailing the history of Middle Earth, but I dunno if he added to it, or only put down his fathers ideas that he was unable to work into his books.

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

History of Middle-earth is a series of books published and edited by Christopher Tolkien, but basically containing older versions and unfinished snippets of stories by JRR. I haven't read them yet.

However, I'm pretty sure the Silmarillion contains some (very vague) descriptions of Sauron's looks.

Marian - who knows the Sil describes the mace Sauron uses in the FOTR prologue.