JW and the Prisoner of Azkaban

[Josh500 1,615]

Maybe this has been discussed before on this site, but does anyone know what JW-related extras there will be (if any) on the new HP-DVD? I sincerely hope there will be SOMETHING, maybe a footage of JW conducting the children's choir singing Double Trouble, or the orchestra playing Buckbeak's Flight or Aunt Marge's Waltz. That would be so awesome! Is that too much to hope for???

[A24 4,331]

They only put extra's on it that might interest the average potter fan.

[Josh500 1,615]

Yeah, but there was something on JW on the CoS-DVD, too. As brief as it was, I was pleasantly surprised to find SOMETHING!!!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Definitely not, we would have heard about it by now for sure, even if it was insignificant.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

There is another "Anatomy of a Scene" featurette on it, though, so who knows.

[Danielle 0]

I got the DVD yesterday, and the bonus disc is hell to navigate. If there are any JW-related extras on there, I really don't know if it would be worth the effort to try to find them. :?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I remember before Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone was released on DVD, I was guessing that they'd go for the all out big one and put in an isolated score in 5.1, a dts 6.1 soundtrack, "The Beginning" from TPM style documentary on the making of the film, full trailer campaign, ad and poster campaign from around the world, and not to mention maybe a 10-15 minute documentary on the score.

What a naive boy I was. I've never seen so much crap stashed on a second disc (the final nail in the coffin was that they refused to release the film in widescreen in Australia until now). What can you expect from $2Warner?

[Morlock 11]

There are no JW related extras.

[King Mark 3,631]

lets e-mail Warner that they suck

K.M.Who will rent PoA to get the film version of Mischief Managed.

[John Crichton 4]

Is that too much to hope for???

Unfortunately, yes it is. Shouldn't be, but it is. But pretty much all the special features on the HP sets have sucked, so...

[King Mark 3,631]

Maybe the lack of a Williams bit in the bonus features is Warner trying to downplay the change of composer for GoF.

K.M.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I doubt it, there was not much Williams in the first 2 DVD's, i'm guessing they just didn't bother.

[Maestro 147]

Let's just try to forget that John ever wasted his time on these movies and move on.

[Henry B 50]

It was a waste of time?

[diskobolus 3]

Let's just try to forget that John ever wasted his time on these movies and move on.

Feel free to do that. Then again there are others here who are very upset he is not scoring GoF.

[John Crichton 4]

How about we remember that Williams gave us 2 incredible scores and one good one, regardless of what happens after. Williams getting little to no time on Harry Potter DVDs is not exactly an isolated incident.

[Henry B 50]

2 incredible scores and one good one

Well, if you mean CoS was the "good one," I think it was more a score of extremes that cancel each other out. On the one hand, there were the incredible "Fawkes the Phoenix," "The Chamber of Secrets," etc., and on the other hand, thematic misuse and dreary underscore. The reused music could actually be considered irrelevant, since without it, there's still 1.5-2 hours of original music, which is longer than most movie scores.

[John Crichton 4]

That's excellently put, except that if you take out the recycled cues there's only about 1 hour of new music, including the concert pieces. And don't forget The Flying Car, one of my favorite HP cues.

[Morlock 11]

I think PoA is the weakest of the 3.

[Henry B 50]

That's excellently put, except that if you take out the recycled cues there's only about 1 hour of new music, including the concert pieces. And don't forget The Flying Car, one of my favorite HP cues.

OK, I misestimated. You're sure there's only an hour? The CD has at least fifty minutes, and I can remember several long, original cues in the film...but all right.

[John Crichton 4]

Not all the music on the CD is new. In that 1 hour I'm only counting the cues that are all or mostly new, not based on a SS cue, and the concert pieces. And I'm estimating, but I think it's around that.

I think PoA is the weakest of the 3.

PoA has the weakest thematic structure IMO, but it gets points for wonderful general underscore.

[Henry B 50]

Not all the music on the CD is new.

Right, that's why I said "around fifty minutes," not "seventy minutes." Although I should have said "at least fifty minutes of new music." Sorry.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

How about we remember that Williams gave us 2 incredible scores and one good one

Yes.

On the one hand, there were the incredible "Fawkes the Phoenix," "The Chamber of Secrets," etc., and on the other hand, thematic misuse and dreary underscore.

Yes.

I think PoA is the weakest of the 3.

No.

PoA has the weakest thematic structure IMO, but it gets points for wonderful general underscore.

Yes.

Ray Barnsbury

[Morlock 11]

Well, for myself, Fawkes, Chamber of Secrets, The Flying Car, The Dueling Club, Dobby The House Elf, Moaning Myrtle are enough to keep me coming back to CoS time and time again, while the PoA highlights are fewer and more far between. The album just isn't worth it if you want a good 45 minutes of music. Too inconsistant, too disconnected, and several of the best cues were left off the album. And IMO, the highlights just aren't that great. Double Trouble is a fantastic theme, but is overused. Aunt Marge is too slight for me. The Whomping Willow and Quidditch isn't that exciting. The snow ball fight doesn't really work because it's entirly disconnected from everything else. The only tracks I really love and would rank with the best HP tracks to date are Forward Time To Past and Mischief Managed (just for the first two minutes).

What CoS was lacking inunderscore, it made up for in thematic material, and SS was simply a masterpiece of thematic material, underscore, continuity. The themes were the base, and everything else sprang forth from them. As a matter of fact- 'In the Devil's Snare and The Flying Keys' is the only track on the entire first CD I don't like, because it's disconnected from the unity of the rest of the score.

I think all 3 films had the perfect scores, and I think that the fact that the music played the smallest part in PoA (out of the 3) an made for the weakest album is because the movie was so strong, needing less help from Williams. He just needed to witness it, to come in and put the final flourishes. With the first two, IMO he had to come in and work his magic to elevate them.

Morlock- who never would've thought he'd be listening to something called Victor Navorsky's Theme more than the new HP themes

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

POA had a weak thematic structure? It wasn't weak at all, it was simply different. It was just as thematically complex as the first two scores. The whole album and score was so good, I don't need to name highlights. It seemed to have a similar approach to Goldsmith's The Final Conflict, which contained almost zero material from his scores to The Omen and Damien: Omen II.

[Josh500 1,615]

Call me a sentimental fool, but whenever I listen to Mischief Managed! on the PoA soundtrack, I get sad, thinking this is the last piece JW wrote for the HP series . . .

Highlights of the entire series:

Hedwig's Theme

Harry's Wondrous World

The Quidditch Match

Fawkes the Phoenix

Chamber of Secrets

Dobby the Houseelf

Double Trouble

Buckbeak's Flight

Mischief Managed!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Actually it's pretty unlikely that Mischien Managed was the last piece of music he wrote.

[Josh500 1,615]

I meant the last piece of music by John Williams that was heard in the HP series!!!

:roll:

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah, but that is NOT what you wrote down.

[Josh500 1,615]

Is THAT really the issue???

[Morlock 11]

It seemed to have a similar approach to Goldsmith's The Final Conflict, which contained almost zero material from his scores to The Omen and Damien: Omen II.

Final Conflict had it's own very defined themes that it used during the movie repeatedly. Nothing was disconnected from the whole. I'm not arguing for the effectiveness of PoA, it was perfect in the movie, simply for how it works as music. On the album especialy, there's very little unifying the piece.

PoA has almost no thematic structure. It has themes that it reuses (2 themes that it reuses over and over again), but with very little subtlety, and not really for something specific, just the memory theme for anything regarding the past or family, and Double Trouble for just about everything else. For disconnected great underscore, you've got a solid hour of fantastic material (a lot of which didn't make the album), but it simply can't match up to the thematic glory of CoS or the thematic glory and amazing underscore for the first score. IMO, of course.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

 Final Conflict had it's own very defined themes that it used during the movie repeatedly. Nothing was disconnected from the whole.

Of course not, it is a Goldsmith score.

You are aware of Goldsmith's emphesis on unity and cohesion, so often pointed out by Mr. Dan Hobgood on the FSM MB?

I'm not arguing for the effectiveness of PoA, it was perfect in the movie, simply for how it works as music. On the album especialy, there's very little unifying the piece.

I disagree, it may not be as "blatantly" thematic at Philosophers stone, and i agree that the "happy-go-lucky" cues like Snowbal Fight don't blend in to well with the darker material (this is made worse because these cues are clumsily edited with other more menacing music from the score).

But I think it's a thematically sound score, more diverse then many of Williams other more recent scores.

[Morlock 11]

Well, it doesn't work for me. Bygones.

And I'm all too familiar with Mr. Hobgood. He's not necasserily wrong about Goldsmith, as much as he's wrong about his overall outlook and everyone else. The Final Conflict is a brilliant score. IMO, it works better on CD.

I was bothered by the use of Double Trouble. It seemed overused to me, I got sick of the theme by the end of the movie (though, of course, Mischief Managed! made me love it all over again). And the memory theme just didn't work for me. I only really like it when it blends with the Patronus cue.

[fommes 153]

I was bothered by the use of Double Trouble. It seemed overused to me, I got sick of the theme by the end of the movie

I would have actually liked some more variations on the theme - yet not in 'playful' mutations. I think there's nothing wrong with thematic coherence in the film - though I can see your point on the album.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Never judge a John Williams score by it's album alone!

[Morlock 11]

Of course. (though usualy an album is enough to let the brilliance shine)

[Adam 1]

Its hard for me to pick a favorite among the first and third albums. Its nice to have both but I think I prefer PoA slightly.

With PoA, we often get music that seems more rooted in the English atmosphere that permeates the film. In particular, I like the Window to the Past theme which works for both the nostalgic, sad mood of his recalling his parents, but also the pretty English settings that often provide the backdrop. In contrast, the first two films? music, although very appropriate, exist mostly within the more generic palette of a children?s fantasy.

The first score is more thamatic overall, using a greater range of themes but the third film is more compositionally diverse, much moodier like the film it was written for. The scarier scenes of PoA often use the Close Encounters, atonal type of writing that is a little more grown up and unsettling. In some ways its less pleasing for me to listen to than if had used a more thematic approach, but, on the other hand, its a nice contrast with the rest of the album that gives the overall listening experience a different kind of balance.

I listen to PoA the most but that's also, I'm sure, partly because its more recent.

- Adam

[John Crichton 4]

SS/PS: A masterpiece in just about every sense.

CoS: Fawkes' Theme, The Chamber's Theme, Dobby's Theme, using almost all the themes from SS, all great. There are also some really good new cues. But the score as a whole is severely wounded by so many cues being taken straight from SS, and "dreary underscore" is a great description of some of the new cues. The (unreleased) cue where Hagrid is arrested is possibly the most boring Williams cue ever. I also can't stand the use of the Sorcerer's Stone theme as a "Mystery of the Chamber" theme when the Chamber's actual theme would have been perfect, especially when the Chamber is opened.

PoA: The Past Theme, Buckbeak's Theme and the Patronus choral motif are wonderful. Double Trouble is good and creative, but its meaning is very undefined and it's used almost non-stop from the arrival at Hogwarts to the middle of the film, then it vanishes. And other than that, there's not much going on here thematically. It's not as deep, not as diverse, not as defined as the first two.

That being said, there are some wonderful cues that have great general underscore. Nearly every cue has something going for it. A big problem that I have is that every cue is so short, it makes it all feel choppy and disconnected. My film edit of the OST has 30(!) tracks, including 12 minutes for Mischief Managed. The average length of the in-film cues on the OST is probably under 2 minutes. As someone who loves long, involved cues or multiple cues that can be connected into one big "suite", this is a big minus. And as was stated earlier, the sheer variety is a minus as well as a plus, as it also contributes to making the whole thing feel rather disjointed. Still, I'm looking forward to seeing what I can get out of the DVD next week.

Rant over.

[King Mark 3,631]

PoA has the weakest thematic structure IMO, but it gets points for wonderful general underscore.

Yes.

No.

That is only true of the c.d.If we had the complete score or a longer OST that included all the Peter Pettigrew and Sirius Black material than that statement is no longer true.

K.M.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I never wanted to say it, but I'm now bored of PoA. There's nothing for me to keep going back to, I've completely exhausted Aunt Marge, Dementors Converge, Window to the Past and Buckbeak. I feel like I could go back to Fawkes and the Chamber theme any time though, and even Hedwig's Theme despite the fact I've listened to that CD more than any other CD ever. I've moved on since PoA to The Fury and now Beauty and the Beast. I just wanted some more previous themes, I suppose.

[Morlock 11]

PoA, ok. But how on earth could someone move on from The Fury!?

[John Crichton 4]

I got bored with PoA not that long after its release, something that hardly ever happens with new Williams scores. But after a long break I've recently rediscovered it and have really enjoyed it again. Still not as good as SS, but a very good score (see my above novel for its strengths and flaws ).

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

PoA, ok. But how on earth could someone move on from The Fury!?

Never said I did I'm just listening to other stuff as well as.

[Henry B 50]

PoA, ok. But how on earth could someone move on from The Fury!?

I definitely could...not because I think the music's bad, but because it just creeps me out. It isn't "feel good" music, and the few bright pieces, e.g. "For Gillian," just make it creepier, since you know the characters the music is written for are either dead or completely ****ed up by the end of the film.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I'm not that enthralled with The Fury either. Granted, I need to give it another listen (maybe the album version, as I just zone out during the full score), but it hasn't impressed me like it has so many others.

Ray Barnsbury

[Morlock 11]

It took a while, but now I'm a Fury groupie. Amazing, amazing, amazing film score. The whole score's amazing, but Epilogue is one of JW's most amazing cues ever.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

The amazing perfection of the Fury score cannot become clear before one sees the movie.

Marian -

[Lurker 5]

The amazing perfection of the Fury score cannot become clear before one sees the movie.

Marian -

Probably, but I loved it before I saw the film.

Neil

[Henry B 50]

I heard that the film sucks. :?

It took a while, but now I'm a Fury groupie. Amazing, amazing, amazing film score. The whole score's amazing, but Epilogue is one of JW's most amazing cues ever.

Yes. I don't mind that one, it's just classic Williams, not dissonant-creepy Williams.

[Lurker 5]

I heard that the film sucks. :?

Many here will disagree with that assessment. I know I do.

Neil