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Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Azkaban has Been Nominated


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What crew ups? Finding Neverland was widely released, widely seen, widely reviewed, and overall, widely liked. None of this is sympathy votes.

Finding Neverland was only showing in about 50 screens across the US for the first 3 or 4 weeks of it's release. Therefore all the publicity (the stars appearing on Oprah etc) was wasted as many people couldn't get to see the film. By the time the film was released to a wider audience it was old news. The film had lost any chance of having a large opening gross. Other newer films were out and doing good business by then. The academy may feel sympathetic to this unfortunate presentation of an excellent film.

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I think you'll find, logically, that an overwhelming majority of the 5,800-member Academy has seen Neverland, and only small splotches have seen either of its Best Score competitors.

Having said that, based on the solid reviews of the film, and the fact that most of the Academy can hum the main theme, Williams' Prisoner of Azkaban has the greatest chance of upsetting Kaczmarek's derivative albeit pretty classiquiche score.

Bowie - who just wants to see John Williams at the ceremony, looking healthy and excited.

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I'm also disappointed that Debney's Last Temptation rip-off was given a nod.

Me too. It is an effective score, but it is totaly unremarkable outside of the movie.

There have been some folks, not on this board mind you, that have compared Zimmer's As Good As it Gets to The Terminal.

Only because of the begining of 'Dinner With Amelia' and 'A Happy Navorski Ending'. Williams uses a very similar ensemble to Zimmer's.

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I'm   I bought the soundtrack last summer but only recently saw the film, which wasn't as bad as critics said it was.  Taken literally, it is laughable.  But as a metaphor, which is what most Shyamalan films are, I find it quite poignant.

The Village spoilers ahead!

That's the film's problem. M. Night didn't try hard enough to make us believe in the metaphor. Some central things in the script were just too implausible. I will never believe that a whole community, without the presence of a tyrant leader, is capable of terrorizing their own children on the horrific level that they displayed in The Village. The strange dialect was too gimmicky (a trick to led us believe this is 1900). And no, after Hurt's character confessed the whole thing to his daughter, he should have went on that mission himself instead of sending his blind daughter into the woods. Or at least he should have gone with her. That would be the only believable thing to do after all those years of deceit. Shyamalan took certain things for granted and somehow he thought he could get away with it, but some of us are not THAT easygoing. I had exactly the same problem, this feeling of disbelieve, with Signs.

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Alex Cremers

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It just occurred to me that part of the reason JW didn't reuse any of the older HP-material was because he wanted the score to be eligible for an Oscar nomination. And it worked!!!

As good as the other scores are, I really believe that JW will win this year. There are several reasons I can think of:

1. The most obvious is of course PoA IS the best score of the five.

2. As several of you mentioned, the sympathy vote applies here. Since he won the statuette for Schindler's List in 1993, he's been nominated so many times that he deserves an Oscar again this year. Also, If JW gets this Oscar, it would not be just for PoA but for his entire work on the Harry Potter series.

3. Shore got two for the LOTR-trilogy, which was obviously a bad mistake (why else was his Aviator score declared uneligible other than for the stated reason?). It would look stupid if JW got none for his HP soundtracks, which were almost just as popular, not to mention more enjoyable to listen.

4. They won't dismiss it as a kid's movie. After all, what's E.T. then??? Besides, of the bunch Lemony Snicket is the kid's movie.

:thumbup:

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I don't think John has had this much chance of winning since '93 with Schindler's List. He might have won in '01 if he didn't get a double nomination, but seriously, I'm looking at the other contenders and I'm laughing. While there are certainly other scores that deserved to be nominated in place of certain others, the current list doesn't boast much challenge. The only score that I would be worried about is "Passion of the Christ". But Debney isn't a Hollywood favorite and doesn't have much of a history. I mean look at this list:

Finding Neverland - Jan A.P. Kaczmarek

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban - John Williams

Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events - Thomas Newman

The Passion of the Christ - John Debney

The Village - James Newton Howard

Neverland was a sleeper at the theater (meaning not many saw it), Lemony didn't get a ton of good reviews, Passion was controversial, and the Village was plain awful. Although this isn't the actual basis of voting, it doesn't help either. Over the passed decade I've been worried over the results because of tight competition, but things look really good for him this time out. I'm glad the terminal didn't get nominated as well, only because it would hurt his chances again, but I still think it is a better score.

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King Mark's Predictions:

I'm pretty sure The Village won't win the best score Oscar.The film is muddled by bad reviews and generally ridiculed,and did poorly at the box office.Why would anyone aside from film score fans vote for it or award this movie in any way?Just like Williams A.I. might have suffered from the movie's fate even if he technically deserved it.But in this case I doubt The Village could win EVEN if it was the hands down best composed score.

Same with Passion,but for different reasons.It might have gardened a token nomination,but no way the Hollywood crowd will vote for this controversial film.Surely it's not that crowd that bought the soundtrack.

Finding Neverland.I saw the film,but as someone who notices film scores more than the general movie goer,I can't say this score left much of an impression on me,or do I remember it aside from the general soft/sad/angelic choir generic sound.Pretty standard for that kind of film,and it almost sounds like tracked stock music.Not enough for me to say "oh yeah that film had great music or a catchy theme".In this respect Clint Eastwood's score for Million Dollar Baby or Shore's score for Aviator both had a much better chance at pulling this "gimmicky" trick off to lure voters had they been nominated,or ride on the coat tails of their respective films.Since most of the awards that Finding Neverland is nominated for will be swept by Million Dollar Baby and Aviator,I predict this film willl be largely overlooked because it's too low key.

Lemony Snickets.Saw the film,don't remember the score either.Not bad but not above average.And this movie came and went and everyone's forgotten about it.

PoA:VERY well reviewed film.Left an impression on most people and not just Sci-fi geeks or kids.Not the standard Williams fare which has repeatedly won (or lost) many times before(Star Wars,Indy,E.T.,HP PS....).The score was particularely well received when the film came out by film critics and film score fans alike.Some voters might remember Hedwig's Theme,Aunt Marge's Waltz,The Knight Bus,the Buckbeaks Flight sequence or the Double Trouble theme and choir,and the beautiful Finale.It has the medieval sound going for it,giving it an aura of nobility and maturity that the academy likes to vote for(especially the Window to the Past theme).Williams is not doubly nominated this year to cancel himself out.Some voters might have watched the Kennedy Center honors and decide to vote for him since he hasn't won in a while and he's getting old.They might award him as a nod for his work on the 3 Potter films,like LotR last year.Objectively,it's a superior score in terms of musical writing and complexity than the other nominees.

All in all,PoA does have a lot going for it that favors a win this year,it's more than wishful thinking this year(like the hope a SW score might win again).There is no "sure thing" winner like a score for a musically centered movie(something like The Red Violin).I'd be worried if The Chorus had been nominated for score and in the Best Picture category.Aviator and Million Dollar Baby are out of the way.If Williams does not win this year,then I don't know fit can ever happen again.

K.M.

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.

3. Shore got two for the LOTR-trilogy, which was obviously a bad mistake (why else was his Aviator score declared uneligible other than for the stated reason?). It would look stupid if JW got none for his HP soundtracks, which were almost just as popular, not to mention more enjoyable to listen.  

:

That's possible.I'm sure the academy has comities that look back at the winners and try to avoid repeating past mistakes.Aviator got disqualified despite that it won the Golden Globe.Suddenly it appears that Williams has a clear path to victory this year.Coincidence?

Million Dollar Baby also a possible winner disqualified.Giachhino's very loud and all over the place score for The Incredibles might have bullied itself into a win...it's not nominated.

K.M.

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Whether he actually wins or not is still in the air, but I really believe that the Academy or the Committee (or whatever they're called) wants John Williams to win this year. It's nice to recognize his achievement year after year by a nomination, no argument there, but hey . . . it's getting ridiculous. I can think of at least five other occasions (actually it's seven) when JW should have won but didn't.

Also, I think the fact that JW was honored at the Kennedy Center Honors might have sth to do with this.

I have to admit that in 2001, when he was nominated for both AI and HP, I was also hopeful, but this is certainly his best chance in a long time.

:thumbup:

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Re: most of the topics...

Score: It's great Williams was nominated, but somehow, I doubt he will get it. My personal pick would be the Passion by Debney, but I have a feeling it will most likely go to Finding Neverland. Here's hoping.

Direction: If Scorsese gets screwed by the Academy again, then I just have no words. Only bile.

Visual Effects: It's a crime that Sky Captain wasn't nominated. I didn't see Harry Potter or I Robot, but I thought Spider-Man 2 had great special effects and it gets my vote. Still, I would not be surprised if the award went to Potter.

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It just occurred to me that part of the reason JW didn't reuse any of the older HP-material was because he wanted the score to be eligible for an Oscar nomination. And it worked!!!

I don't believe that he writes scores to win Oscars.

Neil

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but I thought Spider-Man 2 had great special effects and it gets my vote.

i thought Spiderman 2 had effects, but I wouldn't call them special by any stretch of the imagination, but I expect it to win. As I said earlier, none of the nominee's for best visual effects should have even been nominated. None are worthy of winning.

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There have been some folks, not on this board mind you, that have compared Zimmer's As Good As it Gets to The Terminal.

I am "guilty" for that affirmation that I posted a few days ago on FSM Board. :)

For clarity's sake, I simply noticed a similarity between Zimmer's As Good As It Gets main theme and Williams' "Dinner With Amelia" cue from The Terminal. There are similar rhythmic punctuations, some analogies in the instrumentation (both pieces features writing for clarinet, strings, piano and accordion) and some slight similarities in the harmonic progressions. But I don't think Williams simply "ripped off" Zimmer. It's probable that Spielberg used that Zimmer score in the temp-track and asked Williams to came up with something in the same vein and structure. It would be fair to point out also that both compositions are obviously inspired by the stylings of Nino Rota.

Zimmer simply doesn't have the chops to write in the harmonic complexity of something like "Jazz Autographs"

That's absolutely true. "Jazz Autographs" is a stunning piece that probably no one except Williams could write with the same apparent ease. It's a very beautiful piece of music, surely one of my personal favourite of Williams' recent output.

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Williams WILL win this oscar.

If your reasons for think that are in the same being as to say AOC CGI is crap, then i fear Williams will not get it after all...

Well, since I am that being, those reasons are indeed in the same being. And I did not call AoTC's CGI crap. I called it vapid crap.

I am not offering a prediction, I am out right saying it-

Williams WILL win this year's oscar for POA.

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I wouldn't complain at all if Williams wins his 7th Oscar. POA has some remarkable writing in it. Williams, to my mind, is in a class of his own regarding skill at composition. It's actually scary to study one of his conductor's score to say, Star Wars and see everything that's going on. Is it derivitive of Strauss? Well, yes, the scoring style is. But show me how many guys alive right now can write in that style so well! And that's the thing that frustrates me. One person declares Williams as unimportant because he's aping a late Romantic style. Well guess what you critics, it ain't easy to write in that manner! Besides, that's b.s. I don't hear Straussian scoring in most of CEOT3K, or Images or Sleepers, or JFK, or Minority Report.

conclusion: most people are lemmings, jumping on the bandwagon of any half-baked ideology as long as it sounds somewhat intellectual, even if it is, in the end, empty rhetoric.

We now return to our feature....

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Ok, first about Zimmer's As Good As It Gets and Williams' Dinner With Amelia...

Back in 1987 George Michael was being law-suited by some guy who claimed Michael had stolen the chords from one of his songs for Last Christmas. Michael went to court and provided the jury 27 other examples of various songs that also used the same standard chord progression. They favored in Michael's case. Ofcourse.

Zimmer did not invent As Good As It Gets! Listen more to the works of Morricone, Bacalov, Piovani, Lai or other European composers and you'll know why. Williams clearly wrote a lot of The Terminal score in European mode and therefor 'that sound' is also there. But I consider Dinner With Amelia to be a totally original composition with some stylitics owed to a long lasting (waaaaaayyyy before As Good As It Gets) European tradition.

There you have it.

OK, now onto the Oscar nominations.

Yes, Williams has a big change of winning but so do some of the other nominees.

John Debney, The Passion of the Christ

Could this be the Oscar's way of acknowledging The Passion? The film has been popular in some religious circles (especially in the US) and although that should be NO basis for voting for this work, with the Academy it's always weird. I have a strange feeling this score will win. Not because it's the best, but because the Academy feels they must award this film at least in some way.

Jan A.P. Kaczmarek, Finding Neverland

Ah, there's the weird, strange name among the bunch. The Academy LOVES weird strange names to award. Could this be the winner then?

Thomas Newman, Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events

The Academy's way of honoring the Newman family?

James Newton Howard, The Village

Howard is quite older than most think! He's not a newcomer in the field of film music and perhaps the Academy feels they must show their respect to a veteran in the industry.

John Williams, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

Yes, yes. I HOPE this one will win!!!!

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lets get something clear about The Passion of the Christ. The filmmakers of the movie did not campaign for the film to be nominated, so its less of a snub, and more of lone wolf approach by the filmmakers themselves.

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POA also has some very complex moments in it, if the Academy is willing to listen.

"The Whomping Willow:" A great actions piece. What's going on?! Where's the time signature? WHERE? Wonderfully confusing and dark.

As is "Quidditch, Third Year."

Here's to John winning!

~Sturgis

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Hey they got the Pope's approval, who needs an Oscar, right? :)

when the pope watched it they had to project the film on the floor.

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Thoughts on the nominations:

John Williams (Prisoner of Azkaban) - Yep he has a good chance for sure. Remember - this is his last HP score as far as we and the Academy know. Everyone knows the Harry Potter music is some of the finest, most popular, most recognizable music ever written, they known this could be their last chance to award him for it! Would be great if he won.

James Newton Howard (The Village) - Yes, he has been around longer than many realize. And has been snubbed by the Academy for many great scores (his last nom was for Best Friend's Wedding, I think, in 97') That's 8 years of some of his best scores ever. Snow Falling On Cedars and Signs come to mind, not to mention the animated scores. Would be very nice to see him win.

---------

Drew a line because I'd be less happy with these winning:

John Debney (Passion of the Christ) - Debney really is a fine composer, nice he got the nod. Film was incredibly moving, epic kind of thing. The Academy likes that kind of stuff, so who knows.

Jan A.P. Kaczmarek (Finding Neverland) - This is a beautiful score, and it is again nice to see a talented composer getting recognition. It sparkles, is great with the movie, but the only complaint I have is it becomes repetitive by the last half. Just not as strong as the top two to me. But artsy, so that helps it I suppose.

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Thomas Newman (Lemony Snicket) - Well first of all, it would be have been nice to see Giacchino in this spot. Second, this score is kind of off the wall for me and I don't think it's quite in the league of the other four. Don't want this to win, not expecting it to.

Other comments: I agree about Gabriel Yared's Troy, I don't know if it would have won, but if it had made it to the screen, yes it would certainly be here, and a top contender.

And if they didn't have their rules, I think The Aviator would be in the place of Lemony Snicket, because it was pretty nice, it was SHORE lol, and because of the buzz of the movie.

Unfortunately I had a feeling somehow that Giacchino was going to get the snub. It's the music world, film music is no different, "You have to pay your dues." No doubt the Academy voters on this category were very aware of some previous snubs, and wanted to pay tribute to the fine work these composers are, and have been doing.

The Incredibles score was great, but he's a newcomer to them. (They probably don't play video games lol) And I think they could possibly have felt it was too Bond inspired, too derivative of that.)

Who knows with the Academy, but I'm very happy about the nominations, they got four out of five right to me, and recognized some superb work that well deserved it. Will be quite interesting to watch. :)

Greta

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I'm really pulling for POA but it will be close with The Village too

I'm REALLY pulling for Aviator to get the oscar for Scorsese since he deserves it so much

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i have a quick question I hope to have answered:

les choristes: is the soundtrack available in the us yet? when will it be available on dvd? has anyone actually seen it? I have heard nothing but great reviews and I can hardly wait to get this and hope to god it's appropriate for the students at school

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Yes, Williams has a big change of winning but so do some of the other nominees.

But doesn't that put him back at square one? If they've all got a big chance of winning then none of them do. It's like the whole "super/special" thing in The Incredibles. If everyone's special, then no-one is!

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Williams should be a lock on the basis that the entire score is divided into so many different musical styles, renaissance, jazz fusion, mock-rossini, etc...The composers listed along with John's nominated score would never be able to do something like this. Look at the deversity between the following cues: Aunt Marge's Waltz, The Knight Bus, Double Trouble, The Whomping Willow and the Snowball Fight, Buckbeak's Flight, The Dementors Converge, Hagrid the Professor, etc...Not only are they different, but they function beautifully in the movie, and do not distract from the action and dialogue. I listened to Passion and all the tracks sound repetitive. I can't vouche for the others, but William's score for PoA is such a great culmination of his previous work, and works almost like a sampler on CD.

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Remember, he should have won for this boards favorite JW score, and it lost

to

Fame-logo.gif

so there is no guarantee.

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I think you'll find, logically, that an overwhelming majority of the 5,800-member Academy has seen Neverland, and only small splotches have seen either of its Best Score competitors.

Having said that, based on the solid reviews of the film, and the fact that most of the Academy can hum the main theme, Williams' Prisoner of Azkaban has the greatest chance of upsetting Kaczmarek's derivative albeit pretty classiquiche score.

Bowie - who just wants to see John Williams at the ceremony, looking healthy and excited.

I can only stress what I've said before.

THE ACADEMY DOESN'T KNOW MUSIC. IT KNOWS FINDING NEVERLAND. IT WILL REWARD THE AVIATOR IN EVERY OTHER CATEGORY. IT WILL GIVE FINDING NEVERLAND A TOKEN SCORE WIN. MIRAMAX'S CAMPAIGNING VEHICLE WILL JUMP ON THE SCORE WAGON SINCE IT IS NOT COMPETING AGAINST AVIATOR.

FINDING NEVERLAND WILL WIN THE OSCAR FOR BEST SCORE.

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Hey I thought I was doing the score a service by not jinxing it.

And besides, when you predict the Oscars, you have to keep in mind that the top categories are awarded with politics in mind (who hasn't won in how many years or who lost against whom), but the technical categories are token categories for voters to "spread the wealth," in terms of which films they haven't ticket yet on their winners' ballot, or to go nuts over their favourite films - not taking the merit of the technical specifics into consideration (see "Return of the King"). If you look at the entire list of nominees this year, and map out where films are likely to be rewarded, Finding Neverland CLEARLY has good odds on being rewarded for Score. It's a Best Picture nominee no less and doesn't have to compete against The Aviator or Million Dollar Baby.

Bowie - who apologises for accidentally leaving his finger on the shift key for the entire duration of the speech above, which I coincidentally wanted to make extremely clear.

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A lot of people are saying Passion WILL win it's token award for bst score.Maybe Passion and Neverland will cancel each other out and Williams will win.

K.M.

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I listened to Passion and all the tracks sound repetitive..

See here the film's fault. It also suffers from repetitiviness, in content and emotion.

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Alex Cremers

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Hey I thought I was doing the score a service by not jinxing it.

And besides, when you predict the Oscars, you have to keep in mind that the top categories are awarded with politics in mind (who hasn't won in how many years or who lost against whom)

In that view Scorsese (he never won) stands a good chance for winning 'best director', although it wouldn't be for his best work.

----------------

Alex Cremers

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i have a quick question I hope to have answered:

les choristes: is the soundtrack available in the us yet?  when will it be available on dvd?  has anyone actually seen it? I have heard nothing but great reviews and I can hardly wait to get this and hope to god it's appropriate for the students at school

The soundtrack is available here or at your local record store.

I'm not sure when it's coming out on DVD, but I doubt it'll be out before Oscar night, as it's one of the nominees for Best Foreign Language Film.

If you haven't seen it yet, you can view the trailer here.

- Marc, who has not seen this film.

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