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Most Overrated Williams Scores


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I've seen alot of scores on here that I am puzzled how they can be overrated.

To be overrated, they must be highly praised and towards the top of John's catalog of works.

its really hard to see how Sabrina, Amistad, Spacecamp, Stanley and Iris, & Presumed Innocent are overrated, actually they are likely underrated as most of those can go weeks or months on this board and never be mentioned.

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Overrated:

(1) Schindler's List

(Yes, they're all perfect in film, and excellent on album with stellar standout cues, but... quite simply, overrated!)

You wouldn't be saying those things if you understood how greatly Williams succeeded in what must be one of his most difficult and complicated assignments of his entire career.

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Alex Cremers

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actually Alex, I think Schindler's List is overrated as well, its at best a 4 out of 5 star score.

So you keep telling everyone, but as I said, you probably don't realize the lay-out, aim or purpose of that particular score. I'll give you a hint: If the score was composed in such way that JoeinAr would've loved and praised it, then Schindler's List, as a movie, would've ended up with a terribly wrong score.

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Alex Cremers

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I've seen alot of scores on here that I am puzzled how they can be overrated.

To be overrated, they must be highly praised and towards the top of John's catalog of works.

its really hard to see how Sabrina, Amistad, Spacecamp, Stanley and Iris, & Presumed Innocent are overrated, actually they are likely underrated as most of those can go weeks or months on this board and never be mentioned.

Once again I find myself in agreement with Joe. Who exactly is overrating these scores?

Justin

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Again; name one score that is REALLY overrated?

There is such a weird tendency among John Williams fanatics especially to label a score that you don't LIKE as being OVERRATED.

There isn't such a thing as an overrated score!

There are scores that you may dislike, but please stop trying to make your distaste for a certain score more dramatic or intellectual by refering to it as being OVERRATED.

I already start hating that word; overrated.

You know I don't really see the greatness of the Star Trek The Motion Picture score. But I know many film music lovers do. Who am I to say the score is overrated based on me disliking the score? How ARROGANT would that be?

Oh, and some may not like Schindler's List, but in NO way is it overrated! In fact; millions raved the Party Animals back in 1993 (in Holland), but only a small minority appreciated the brilliance of Schindler. Bad example I know, but my point it that Schindler's List (and FILM MUSIC in general!) is vastly underrated.

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actually Alex, I think Schindler's List is overrated as well, its at best a 4 out of 5 star score.

So you keep telling everyone, but as I said, you probably don't realize the lay-out, aim or purpose of that particular score. I'll give you a hint: If the score was composed in such way that JoeinAr would've loved and praised it, then Schindler's List, as a movie, would've ended up with a terribly wrong score.

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Alex Cremers

Your right Alex, I'm probably not capable of understanding the score, its beyond my capacity. I'm giving it 4 out of 5, really what more do you want, I simply don't agree that it is the same quality as E.T., Star Wars, ESB, JAWS, Superman, Raiders, Close Encounters, its not John's best work for the movies, not by a long shot, certainly not John's best work for a Spielberg film, you make it sound like I said it was bad, its not, theres only been one bad JW score in the last 12 years since Schindler's List was made, and its a prequel score.

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Everywhere you looked or listened, the music of Star Wars was omnipresent.

Don't forget, it was also played incessantly on pop radio. The same can be said of how many other film themes (sans insipid love lyrics)? And I'm not talking about the Meco remixes, for those of you old enough to know what I'm talking about. I think I may have heard Titanic once while I was having breakfast at a diner. But Alexcremers is right. Nothing will ever equal the impact of Star Wars, in terms of film music, on the broader cultural scale. It can't. Before Williams, there was nothing like it. It was the first. And it blazed a trail that no longer exists. Today, though miniscule when compared to that of more popular forms, the soundtrack market is huge. There are probably millions of film score fanatics out there. But when dealing with your peers (posting at jwfan.net day after day after day), it's very easy to become myopic. Simply because your personal aquaintances can dissect the Jurassic Park soundtracks or hum The Fellowship of the Ring from beginning to end, doesn't mean your dentist, mailman or green grocer could do the same. By contrast, I venture to guess, in 1977, all those folks, unless tone-deaf, could whistle Star Wars.

By the way, since it's referenced again in this thread, hats off to you, Alexcremers, for your very perceptive analysis of the function of music in Schindler's List. Very well articulated. :)

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OK, I'll tackle a few subjects. I'll get my money's worth with one post! Wahoo! :mrgreen:

1. My controversial poll/thread wasn't meant to be funny or hateful. I did it in frustration while I was sick (like I said... I went to the emegency room just a few hours after I wrote that). I apologize to Joe if I hurt his feelings, as it wasn't meant to be a personal 1-on-1 attack on him, but I don't apologize over being completely frustrated over people constantly bashing/attacking post-1977 Star Wars. It was lashing out because my favorite webboard seemingly became a place where you can't say that you love a Williams score without a few people knocking it down and seemingly trying to make you look stupid for liking it.

2. Several people have emailed me about all the post-1977 Star Wars bashing LONG BEFORE Neil became moderator. It really doesn't have anything to do with Neil, although Neil is admittedly one of the most vocal enemies of all things past the Empire Strikes Back. Recently it's been Joe and Neil as the 1-2 punch, but I got a few "I can't stand the MB anymore" comments like those like right after AOTC came out in 2002 (on one of the older, different boards if I remember correctly?). And not some small time posters either, some long-time members said this too (and no I'd never name names, although some people on this newer MB will have never known because they haven't posted in years). It's funny because I'm not a moderator, yet I do occasionally get these emails... maybe some people see me as a pro-Star Wars veteran sticking up for Star Wars or something, I don't know. I've had my problems with the Prequels too (I've long said the editing of both the movies and scores are horrid), but I still greatly enjoyed/enjoy them. Nobody wants anybody to leave the board. I am, however, explaining why a few people did leave or threaten to leave... and one reason is non-stop Star Wars bashing.

3. Does someone have to read a Potter book to say Harry Potter movies and films are overrated??! I know it's different, but Star Wars novels/novelizations have nothing to do with the movies and scores, with the possible exception of Lucas' own "Star Wars" novel. Again, I just think they are overrated... I don't hate them as much as they became the whipping boy for me personally because of all the Star Wars bashing.

4. The music mistake in the Star Wars DVD didn't really bug me all that much. Truthfully, I would have never noticed it if such a stink wasn't raised here. And as long as the music is all there, it's not all that bad. However, I was a LITTLE peeved at the near-muting of the first few moments of the Death Star battle, but even that didn't irk me as much. Every time I played it since, I simply shifted it to the French soundtrack, then switched it back. Those are two small problems that don't take away my enjoyment with the overall quality of the set. Plus, SW is my least favorite of the Trilogy (don't get me wrong, I love all 3 as ****/**** movies) but Empire and Jedi were awesome on DVD to me. And yes, I loved McDiarmid as the Emperor in ESB and I thought that Hayden's ghost in Jedi was more appropriate and emotional, although admittedly it didn't make a ton of sense. The Jabba scene was spruced up since 1997 too (I need that scene now, the old SW doesn't do it for me anymore without it). Sure, I'd ALSO love the original OT on spruced-up DVD, but for now, my laserdisc DVD-Rs and factory VHS sets of the originals are acceptable.

5. Nobody said that you can't have a negative opinion about Star Wars or a John Williams score. But I don't see people running around posting left and right how badly this or that movie sucks like I do with Star Wars. Like it or not, the Star Wars saga is the crown jewel of Williams career, and vice versa. Also, there will likely be alot less interest in John Williams and this site once the last Star Wars movie comes out and has been gone for awhile. Granted there's always Indiana Jones or a Speilberg movie (even there he's becoming less popular since 1993 or so), but what else? Even Potter is done as far as Williams is concerned (I may be the only one excited over that, LOL). Usually the more subtle scores don't get droves of internet savvy fans visiting and posting on websites. To constantly bash the #1 reason why Williams is so popular is sort of like insulting all the fans who like those films and scores. Here's an example in this very thread. When a comment like this is made...

Would it be better if we were all drones with the same opinion? Who's to say what is right and what isn't? If someone wants to be immature enough to walk away because several people hate that steaming pile of a movie known as Attack of the Clones, then that's their problem. You don't see me or Joe or anyone else leaving the board because people like the prequels, do you?

...this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Nobody said we are all to be drones with the same opinion. Where was that said ANYWHERE. However, look more closely at what you said...

If someone wants to be immature enough to walk away because several people hate that steaming pile of a movie known as Attack of the Clones, then that's their problem.

...is this neccessary? You state it like Attack of the Clones is a piece of crap and it's an indisputed fact. It isn't. I personally know several people who feel that AOTC was either the best SW film, or one if the 2 or 3 best. I do NOT agree with them. I think it's the least of the 5 existing movies, and I'm predicting it will be the worst because RotS is going to likely blow it and TPM out of the water. But I don't say "Attack of the Clones is a terrible film and you must be crazy, immature or stupid to think that it's anywhere near as good as Star Wars -- and don't you DARE say A New Hope". That's different. That's forcing your opinion on others as better or more informed. You'll never once catch me saying that. Then, on top of that, you are calling everyone who is a little sick of the SW-bashing "immature". It's snobby to the Nth degree. Some people love AOTC. I liked it quite a bit even though some of the love dialog and most of the music edits made me grit my teeth a little. It was still an entertaining movie to me. But it's insulting to see people say "it sucks and you must be crazy" over and over again. And no, I'm not a Lucass-kisser. But I'm not a bash-all-that-lucas-has-done-since-1977/1980 person either. I'm actually on a middle ground here. I'm just saying that some people are sick of seeing all of the bashing when there isn't one person on the site that doesn't already know that a few of you dislike and/or despise those films. It's like when you're watching TV and you see something you don't like. People will stop watching. Sometimes, especially as a moderator, one must be a little less attack-oriented. It doesn't mean opinion-less, it just means don't bash things with such viciousness in order to not offend quite as much. I think this is one of the reasons why Ricard gave up posting and moderating duties, because he kind of had to hold his tounge in order to not offend (I'm not sure though, just a guess). This is just some advice, I'm not trying to be an @$$hole or anything.

But since we're in the thread, I might as well rundown some of my votes:

Overrated according to my opinion/taste:

- The first two Potters (although PoA was a little better, I still think it was a little overrated too. They all feel like the proverbial "Williams-on-auto-pilot"-ish to me.)

- Close Encounters (I like it, but it's a little too atonal for my taste. It has ahandful of extremely exciting cues, but the majority of it doesn't do too much for me. I'm glad others like it so much though.)

- Jaws (I like Jaws the movie, but the album is a touch on the boring side, IMO. I liked many of the film versions better than most of the album versions though.)

- Schindler's List (I think this score is genius, but it seems almost untouchable to some fans... it's a very difficult listen, as it can depress you. The film too. That's why I think both the film and the score are exellent, but not too re-watchable/re-listenable.)

- The Cowboys (Personally it's my least favorite of the Williams Western/Americana scores, although I loved the movie.)

- Stepmom (I just don't get the love for it. Nice theme, but overrated, IMO. And that album cover! Steef refuses to buy it because it's so scary looking! My mom had to get it for me because I refused to be seen buying it! UGH!)

- Sabrina (I hear alot of people saying how great this score is, and although I liked it in the movie, I'm not as crazy about it as others.)

- Born on the 4th of July (Great theme song, but not a heck of alot else... strangely my mom thinks this is her favorite, but that's probably because she loves the main theme so much.

- Towering Inferno (EEWW! YUCK!!!! No... just kidding. I actually like the score... just kidding JoeinAr again. The movie though... YYYAWWN!)

Granted, all of the above "overrated" scores are still ok in my book. I just don't share common MB craziness over them. That's great, because I'm glad others like them more than I do. To me, it shows that Williams can reach different people with different works.

Underrated according to my opinion/taste::

- Attack of the Clones (I really think that some people just hated the movie too much or something.)

- Jaws 2 (Many of it's action cues are my favorite, even though I think the movie is a little... um... not too good, IMO)

- Images (Spooky and odd score... with two of my favorite Wlliams cues of all time!)

- The Eiger Sanction (It really doesn't have a rewarding musical ending, but I love the sound and feel of this album.)

- Far and Away (Yeah, the Irish flavor rubs some people the wrong way, but the score is nice, and action scoring at the end is awesome!)

- 1941 (Maybe it's because people bash the movie. I think it's a nice, fun score. The movie's funny too, IMO!)

- Always (Again, the movie is bashed and so is the score. I like it for dreamy-sleepy time. It has a relaxing feel to it. That doesn't mean it's boring either.)

- Empire of the Sun (Has some great parts, yet overlooked a little, IMO.)

- The Patriot (This score isn't overrated because only 2 or 3 people seem to like it. I thought the music sucked at first, but it grew on me AFTER I saw the movie. To me, the score works better in the film than it does on the album).

In defense of (because I see many "overrating" them):

- Jurassic Park (It's getting attacked alot here, and I don't know why... it's a really good score to me. In fact, it got me buying NEW Williams scores. Before this, I stopped buying Williams scores after the ET LP... mainly because LPs were dying and a place ripped me off and I never got the RotJ LP that I ordered).

- The Lost World (The action scoring is, in my opinion, was the best since Last Crusade and some of it is tied with Jaws 2 in blissfully vicious and angry music.)

- The Fury (I don't think it's overrated or underrated. In fact, Neil, Marian, and myself are possibly the only people who rave about it, and nobody else seems to ever talk about it. I personally love both the album and film versions to no end.)

- Indy/Last Crusade (Although it may be my least favorite score of the Indy Trilogy, I love all three films and this score had it's moments. Why so many bashes? It's FAR from terrible. I love Cross of Coronado, Ah Rats!!!, Belly of the Steel Beast and more... all great stuff! Sure, a little less "Indy theme! Time to win, Indy!" type feel to it... but still pretty good.)

- Jane Eyre (Hey, this is a sweet, sweet score. I like it alot.)

- A.I. (Sure, the movie is bashed often, some of the underscore is a little slow-moving, and the original album was horribly arranged, but the best 77-80 minutes of that score is really top-notch, IMO).

- Hook (People can bash this all they want but it's a great score and an entertaining movie, IMO. One of Williams' deepest works. No, Williams deepest work that didn't include multiple parts to build additional thematic material off of.)

- E.T. (Mmmm... maybe some could say it's overrated because everybod loves it. But this score is so good that the film would be utterly silly without it, IMO. And people who JUST have the expanded versions need to track down the album version. It's a different beast... and a really nice listen.)

- Empire Strikes Back (What can I say... it's the 1st score I owned [on 1980] along with Star Wars shortly thereafter, my lifelong favorite score, the only score that I NEVER get bored of... I can't say how much I love that score, and every incarnation of it's original recording... dual-LP, Anthology, and 2-disc versions!)

Regardless, I can never say that the following scores are overrated: Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars, Superman, Raiders of the Lost Ark, E.T., and Return of the Jedi. Because those were the 1st Wlliams album scores that I owned (in that order) as a kid and the reason why I'm a Williams fan today. And it is true... this was an odd thread to do around Williams' birthday, LOL.

-Chris

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Again; name one score that is REALLY overrated?  

There is such a weird tendency among John Williams fanatics especially to label a score that you don't LIKE as being OVERRATED.  

There isn't such a thing as an overrated score!  

There are scores that you may dislike, but please stop trying to make your distaste for a certain score more dramatic or intellectual by refering to it as being OVERRATED.  

I already start hating that word; overrated.  

You know I don't really see the greatness of the Star Trek The Motion Picture score. But I know many film music lovers do. Who am I to say the score is overrated based on me disliking the score? How ARROGANT would that be?  

Oh, and some may not like Schindler's List, but in NO way is it overrated! In fact; millions raved the Party Animals back in 1993 (in Holland), but only a small minority appreciated the brilliance of Schindler. Bad example I know, but my point it that Schindler's List (and FILM MUSIC in general!) is vastly underrated.

I agree 100%.

However, watch out... according to Stefan, it's extremely dangerous to agree with me. Probably because I've caught him contradicting himself based on his own logic more than a few times, LOL! And hey, wait... does that mean he personally attacked me! BANISHMENT OF SATAN, er STEFAN!!!!!! :mrgreen:

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However, watch out... according to Stefan, it's extremely dangerous to agree with me. Probably because I've caught him contradicting himself based on his own logic more than a few times, LOL! And hey, wait... does that mean he personally attacked me! BANISHMENT OF SATAN, er STEFAN!!!!!! :eek:

Don't expect a happy reply to this, Chris. :mrgreen:

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Overrated (as scores, not as main themes):

2) Superman

3) E.T.

4) Temple of Doom

3 of the greatest JW scores, IMO.

I repeat, Jurassic Park, The Lost World, Hook and the Harry Potter scores are a little overrated.

Jaws and Schindler's List works perfectly in the movies, but not that much on CD.

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Overrated (as scores, not as main themes):

1) Jaws

3) E.T.

Amazing as always, MSM. It's like someone would say that Citizen Kane is overrated and that Battlefield Earth is underrated. I can only shake my head. They truly come in all shapes and sizes!

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Alex Cremers

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Well, doesn't underrated mean that scores that you personally get too much praise, and overrated as scores that get too little praise?

And Tommy... who cares if Steef is mad at me? He was kicked ot of the Phantom Trio years ago for rebelling against the founder. :mrgreen:

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By the way, banning someone because they have a difference of opinion or are defending something they like is not cool in the least bit. Or locking their threads up because they said something you didn't like.

I also hate when some certain members here will say something they like and then someone else says they didn't like it they get attacked for it as hence my earlier statement about members attacking other members like that. That simply is not cool. The ones doing the original attacking that person you are attacking most likely never attacks you for something they didn't like.

Yeah I might have "vowed" that I'd never post here again however when innocent people start getting attacked because they like something that someone doesn't, or something is constantly being bashed that I (or others) like then yes I will post. If you don't like it oh well fuck it and deal with it. Oh my hell I said a swear word why don't you ban me because I swore!!? Get over your damn selves. For Neil, Joe and Stef who are supposed to be "adults" are sure not acting like adults in the least bit at all. You guys are to damn childish. If you don't like what I say then screw you. Jack asses

Trent

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Well, doesn't underrated mean that scores that you personally get too much praise, and overrated as scores that get too little praise?

Yes, if it's within reason ( :mrgreen: ) but if it's not, which is usually the case with MSM, then the poster should say:

1) I know I'm crazy but I personally believe that Jaws* is overrated.

2) In my own strange little world I funnily enough believe that Jaws* is overrated.

3) I admit that I have no taste and so I feel I must say Jaws* is overrated.

*title example

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Alex Cremers

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By the way, banning someone because they have a difference of opinion or are defending something they like is not cool in the least bit.

:roll: Like I've ever done that.

Or locking their threads up because they said something you didn't like.

Only if it's against the rules. I'm really not that petty.

I also hate when some certain members here will say something they like and then someone else says they didn't like it they get attacked for it as hence my earlier statement about members attacking other members like that.  That simply is not cool.  The ones doing the original attacking that person you are attacking most likely never attacks you for something they didn't like.

This lost me.

Yeah I might have "vowed" that I'd never post here again however when innocent people start getting attacked because they like something that someone doesn't, or something is constantly being bashed that I (or others) like then yes I will post.

Thanks for the warning.

If you don't like it oh well fuck it and deal with it.  Oh my hell I said a swear word why don't you ban me because I swore!!?

I will.

Get over your damn selves.  For Neil, Joe and Stef who are supposed to be "adults" are sure not acting like adults in the least bit at all.  You guys are to damn childish.  If you don't like what I say then screw you.  Jack asses

Trent

Thanks for the kind an insightful words. If I knew what you were rambling on about I might do something about it, but all I see is pure venom.

Neil

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Again; name one score that is REALLY overrated?

There is such a weird tendency among John Williams fanatics especially to label a score that you don't LIKE as being OVERRATED.

There isn't such a thing as an overrated score!

There are scores that you may dislike, but please stop trying to make your distaste for a certain score more dramatic or intellectual by refering to it as being OVERRATED.

I already start hating that word; overrated.

You know I don't really see the greatness of the Star Trek The Motion Picture score. But I know many film music lovers do. Who am I to say the score is overrated based on me disliking the score? How ARROGANT would that be?

Oh, and some may not like Schindler's List, but in NO way is it overrated! In fact; millions raved the Party Animals back in 1993 (in Holland), but only a small minority appreciated the brilliance of Schindler. Bad example I know, but my point it that Schindler's List (and FILM MUSIC in general!) is vastly underrated.

(yeah, I already posted this, but since you guys still go crazy with the word overrated (except Chris) I can just as well repost it....sigh.... a new low for me....)

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I think there's something to what you're saying, Roald, but it doesn't have to be the case that people base their view just on the listening experience. It so happens that the impression given is that people often do this and I agree that its arrogant to equate one's own tastes and perceptions of the music with some kind of authoritative judgement about a score's worth.

But there can be scores that get highly praised, perhaps precisely because people love the music, but would be overrated when evaluated more closely with the film. For example, a non-JW example could be Yared's Troy for the simple fact that I imagine few people have actually tried to cue up the score with the movie, if that's even possible given possible re-editing and logistical difficulties.

- Adam

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I take the opposite stance of Roald, music can be overrated, and underrated, at the same time as well.

It goes beyond likes and dislikes, and it goes beyond just the function of the score itself, because when released as an album or cd, it becomes a seperate entity from the movie, with a different function.

As I've said before I believe the Empire Strikes Back to be overrated, but to hear Roald

There is such a weird tendency among John Williams fanatics especially to label a score that you don't LIKE as being OVERRATED

an dthis is simply not the case, nor is it the case when I say Schindler's List is overrated. I love the score to ESB, I've probably listened to it more than most of you people here. I think its a very good score, 2nd best among Star Wars scores, but I do think that too many here label it the best score by JW, I disagree with that, and that permits me to judge it overrated. The same with SL, which is a very good score, I like it very much, but not to the level of praise it receives here. I will say that Close Encounters is Underrated, and its almost impossible to be overrated, because so few of us tout its greatness. Most here say they never got into it, which justifys the underranking of this brilliant masterpiece.

You know I don't really see the greatness of the Star Trek The Motion Picture score. But I know many film music lovers do. Who am I to say the score is overrated based on me disliking the score? How ARROGANT would that be?  

Arrogance ins't a crime, and it is perfectly within your right to say you think its overrated. You can think it overrated based on dislike on your part, or overrated in your opinion based on our part for thinking its the greatest. Arrogant or not its still your opinion, whether we agree or not. Roald you don't have to accomodate us by subverting your opinions, Lord knows I never do. Instead of tiptoeing around, lets us know that yeah Joe, I love ESB, and I don't agree with your opinion, and I love SL, and I disagree with your opinion, and Stef, Joe, Neil, I disagree that TMP is absolutely great, for this reason, and this...

Go for it Roald.

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Again; name one score that is REALLY overrated?

There is such a weird tendency among John Williams fanatics especially to label a score that you don't LIKE as being OVERRATED.

There isn't such a thing as an overrated score!

There are scores that you may dislike, but please stop trying to make your distaste for a certain score more dramatic or intellectual by refering to it as being OVERRATED.

I already start hating that word; overrated.

You know I don't really see the greatness of the Star Trek The Motion Picture score. But I know many film music lovers do. Who am I to say the score is overrated based on me disliking the score? How ARROGANT would that be?

Oh, and some may not like Schindler's List, but in NO way is it overrated! In fact; millions raved the Party Animals back in 1993 (in Holland), but only a small minority appreciated the brilliance of Schindler. Bad example I know, but my point it that Schindler's List (and FILM MUSIC in general!) is vastly underrated.

(yeah, I already posted this, but since you guys still go crazy with the word overrated (except Chris) I can just as well repost it....sigh.... a new low for me....)

I think you forgot to put the word "OVERRATED" in this post.

:happybday:

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Yeah, Roald's got a point. "Overrated" and "underrated" are actually subjective terms, that can only be applied when you have an opinion of something yourself. You can't call a score overrated or underrated if you haven't heard it.

However, scores are actually pretty difficult to compare, such as something like Raiders of the Lost Ark and Schindler's List. Thus, to elevate one over the other is to take into account other factors, including things like subtracting points for comedic scores, or the familiarity and notoriety of certain themes over others less famous.

I picked on a score such as Schindler's List because it is usually critically touted as either Williams' best or second-best score (typically behind Star Wars), but I think the surprise factor of Him writing such excellent Jewish Holocaust music has caused somewhat of a subjective misstep in many others' rankings. I find the score and its use in the film sublime, but as it is so in other films and scores. The fact that Schindler's so often steals their limelight is what I consider liable for accusation of overratedness.

But again, I personally find it in his top echelon--it truly is an extraordinary listen, and it's great that it was composed by Williams of all people, but to single this out so often and to have been rewarded so much during its awards season, means that the shock got in the way.

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picked on a score such as Schindler's List because it is usually critically touted as either Williams' best or second-best score (typically behind Star Wars),  

not at this forum, here it ranks #6

1. THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, 1980, 917PTS, 109 VOTES OUT OF 129

2. E.T. THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL, 1982, 754PTS, 108 VOTES

3. RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, 1981, 520PTS, 85 VOTES

4. STAR WARS, 472PTS, 1977, 75 VOTES

5. SUPERMAN THE MOVIE, 458PTS, 1978 81 VOTES

6. SCHINDLERS LIST, 1993, 423PTS, 75 VOTES

7. JURASSIC PARK, 1993, 348PTS, 68 VOTES

8. HOOK, 1991, 339PTS, 66 VOTES

9. JAWS, 1975, 283PTS, 61 VOTES

10. RETURN OF THE JEDI, 1983, 281PTS, 46 VOTES

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And looking over that list, I can see that there are three titles on there with which I disagree, therefore I'm inclined to think that some titles are overrated.  I don't think this is a difficult concept.

Neil

You can uncline towards where you like, now that we take you in consideration... is another matter ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Well, doesn't underrated mean that scores that you personally get too much praise, and overrated as scores that get too little praise?

Yes, if it's within reason ( :angry: ) but if it's not, which is usually the case with MSM, then the poster should say:

1) I know I'm crazy but I personally believe that Jaws* is overrated.

2) In my own strange little world I funnily enough believe that Jaws* is overrated.

3) I admit that I have no taste and so I feel I must say Jaws* is overrated.

*title example

I think I am reasonable. I never said E.T. or Jaws are bad scores. But compared to the negative remarks other scores get, I regard them overrated. Most opinions aren't very intellectually based and many are exagerrated to make a statement I think. Of course it's all personal taste.

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Of course it's all personal taste.

thats not true, by this false statement you made we can say that POTC is as good a score as E.T. or Jaws, or ESB. Personally I wouldn't want such a blanket statement to cover all the scores we discuss.

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MSM is onto something here. Williams most well known scores have a tendency to be blown up to mythic proportions. Star Wars is great. I don't actually think that's overrated. But I cannot stomach most of E.T. because it's too syruppy sweet for my taste. Also, I keep hearing Howard Hanson references. However, it works amazingly well the the film and my dislike of it is personal. It's still very well written music.

I think Indy3 is really overrated. Never could get into that score. Yes, Born on the 4th of July has one great theme and that's about it. I think Sleepers is way underrated. I put that on again yesterday and I'm still impressed.

I agree with Alex that Schindler's List got the score it needed. And I know it's depressing but I don't that we should invalidate any music on the grounds that it's depressing. That would also leave out many great late 19th century classical composers' works such as Mahler's.

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Yes, Born on the 4th of July has one great theme and that's about it.

You obviousley don't know this score at all. It's easily one of my favorite scores of all time, because it has MULTIPLE great and emotional themes and they are used in brilliant fashion. One of the most classy scores in Williams' catalogue and definately THE most underrated score of his career. Am I the only one who sees it's greatness?

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This is one score that should not be listened to in it's entirely. The selections that made their way on the original album were actually quite representative all the musical ideas from the film. Jerry Goldsmith once stated on Dutch television no less, that he felt not every musical cue from a film should be released! That statement applies to Born On The Fourth Of July in every regard.

However; in the film it does shine all the way!

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Yes, Born on the 4th of July has one great theme and that's about it.

You obviousley don't know this score at all. It's easily one of my favorite scores of all time, because it has MULTIPLE great and emotional themes and they are used in brilliant fashion. One of the most classy scores in Williams' catalogue and definately THE most underrated score of his career. Am I the only one who sees it's greatness?

You should check out July Records' release of Born On The Fourth Of July, Roald.

bo4jboot.jpg

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