NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Williams Loses!

[Jeshopk 8]

JW did look a little disappointed, I think he did believe he really had a chance to win this year. In our hearts we know who really won.

He writes such complex yet direct music, which is the pinnacle of film scoring. Harry Potter III was such a complex and perfect score. So ambitious. It brought a new sound to movies. Finding Neverland's score is interchangeable with "Shakespear in Love" score. Both are all "white key" scores, with little harmonic complexity or subtlety. They are light and beautiful, like a toilet paper commercial soundtrack. Fluffy. Williams' score was a 20th century tone poem with amazing writing and more emotional highs. Clearly if both scores were for Harry Potter movies, Williams' effort would be the victor. But the film too often matters.

Look at his wins. They don't win unless the film was important. But who can deny that his music is better than most of the winners he loses to.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Is there a clip anywhere of Tom Newman's infamous reaction in 2000? People always go on about it but I wasn't into music back then and I'd love to see this 'anguished' face.

[KittBash 282]

when I saw the Pic of Goldsmith I almost did a double take I've gotten so used to how he looked throught the last decade that I almost didn't recognize him till I realized that it was his acceptance speech from winning with the Omen.

and Yes it would have been nice if they had Yo - Yo Ma play selections for each of their scores considering how many composers we lost this last year Although I feel the best trubute to them we can give them is in our collections where we keep their greatest works

Brian99_1

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Simply outrageous.

But expected

It doesnt help either that Siderman got Best visual effects (YES academy, promote fake SFX!) and Natalie Portman didnt won either...

Well at least 'the Sea inside' won...

Manuel, who thinks he will not see a Williams wining 'live' (i mean 'aware of') in his life

I think i'll never expect Williams to win anymore, it really is a let down to wait a month for this

[Greg1138 3]

Have just seen results after desperately avoiding the all day - and I am astonished......I had to go back to IMDB and check who composed Finding Neverland - it was that forgettable......both Passion of the Christ and Harry Potter were easily better than that.....as was The Village and - oh - all of them!

[SeekUYoda 0]

Grr....

SeekUYoda, who thinks Williams' themes are much more fully developed and have much more depth than those from Finding Neverland... who kinda liked the score from that film, but turned off the TV in protest as soon as Best Original Score was over.

[Jeshopk 8]

You guys actually watch that crap?  Or care who wins or loses? It's a polularity contest between a bunch of whiney-PC-to-the-point-of-hatred filth and self-worshipfest between champagne socialists er, socialites. I abhore that nonsense, a living example of why I ignore, and sometimes even hate the Hollywood industry and 90-95% of the garbage that comes out of it.

Ahh, I see we are becoming political in this thread. I don't find most of what "Hollywood" produces to be that good, but hey, its just a John Williams contest for most people here. And judging from Williams' reaction, he cares a little too. Not that it really matters.

[Composer_Fan 2]

Neverland Schmeverland..... That was my last choice. POA was my first choice, of course.

And JW did look a little heart-broken/disappointed/pissed, IMO.

And I really didn't like that whole Yo-Yo Ma thing. First of all, with the audience clapping for almost every single person, you couldn't hear the song that good. And I didn't even like that song either.

- Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, as if to prove a point to myself of how good it is....

[ChrisAfonso 186]

I also listened to PoA today, but hey - nothing against Bach!

[Hlao-roo 389]

dat song that yo ma-ma played wuz HORRIBLE!!!!!!111 y do they play music by crappy composers????????// stupid oscarz

[SturgisPodmore 0]

The Academy can censored themselves. I liked the Finding Neverland score a lot, but I think it's obvious that even we here at JWFan put more thought into it than the actual voters did. POA should have won both categories. I noticed back in June that POA had simply stunning special effects, but you know the Academy.

~Sturgis

[Justin 2]

Don't worry Sturge, after about 5 disapoinments you learn not to care.

Justin

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I can't count how many disappointments I've had. I remember thinking, "Is there a chance he can win for Sleepers?", but I never really considered it as an option. Then with Amistad, I got kind of worked up, and it's been that way till now.

Of course, I never expected The Patriot to win.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

I've got two more to go then: SS and AI not winning, POA not winning, and LotR winning.

~Sturgis

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Just take a trip back in history and you'll be done.

In 1981, Williams was nominated for ESB and lost to Fame of all things.

The next year, Williams received a nomination for Raiders and lost to Chariots of Fire

Also neither Superman: The Movie nor Star Trek: The Motion Picture were awarded for best score.

[David Coscina 3]

The Oscars are tone-deaf, plain and simple. It's a popularity contest. I wish someone would have the balls to deline the nomination. Just say "no".

[ft92027 0]

Why would the Academy have asked Yo-Yo Ma to intersperse music from two dead composers in the middle of the Bach that he played? Mr. Ma is one of the finest interpreters of the Six Suites for Unaccompanied Cello by Bach. It was fine.

[Bowie 45]

This is from The Leaky Cauldron.org.

Can anyone tell where it's from in the score? In the bottom left corner is the trademark "something wicked this way comes"; it's in 2/4 rather than 6/8; and note the semiquavers in the part in the middle - guitar or something?

It's hard to work out what instruments they are because of the unique orchestra.

[Eplicon 53]

Nothing better than modesty from a winner:

"I knew that I would most probably win because I had a very good movie to back me up, unlike my competitors, and that was very important," Kaczmarek, 51, told Poland's TVN24 television.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...scars_kaczmarek

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I don't have time to read everything, but did anyone seriously expect him to win,

I "know" its the best score but I also know that the best score rarely wins especially when John's name is attached

[David Coscina 3]

Lovely. Adding insult to injury.

Oh well, a one-hit wonder is intoxicated by his own self importance. Williams always has been a graceful winner. That's why he's tops in my books...well, that and his music is beyond excellent.

[Trumpeteer 302]

Williams loses. I threw my stuffed Winnie the Pooh at the TV AGAIN.

Scorsese loses. I screamed and jumped for joy.

Chris Rock nails his gig. I laughed hard.

Overall, a great show because I got to see Williams live.

Anyone wonder if the four score losers got together and wondered, "What the hell was that? Who is this Kaczmarek kid"? And who forgot to get Tony Soprano to rub him out?"

Jeff -- not as mad as when Williams lost to "Fellowship of the Ring

[Hlao-roo 389]

I couldn't tell whether Eplicon was being sarcastic or not. If you read everything that Kaczmarek said, he really does appear to be humble: he's attributing his success largely to the success of the picture. He doesn't say that he believed he would win because he was the best or only because of his talent but because he knows that scores associated with Best Picture nominees generally have a better shot in the running. I don't see the gloating in acknowledging that you were along for the ride, so to speak.

Jeff, by the way... John Debney and Thomas Newman are each younger than Kaczmarek, so they'd better not be calling him "kid."

[King Mark 3,631]

Yeah.after filing their Oscar ballots,the voters realised they hadn't voted for Finding Neverland in other categories,so they gave it a vote for best score.Since Williams name is always on there,they didn't see much difference with the previous times.

Other than that,the sound mix or the music in PoA is ok,but a little subdued,and most voters might not have listened to the c.d. to listen to all the music.In Finding Neverland the music was all over the place and loud.

K.M.

[diskobolus 3]

Nothing better than modesty from a winner:

"I knew that I would most probably win because I had a very good movie to back me up, unlike my competitors, and that was very important," Kaczmarek, 51, told Poland's TVN24 television.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=ap/poland_oscars_kaczmarek

What a douche. I'm really disgusted.

[Bowie 45]

I couldn't tell whether Eplicon was being sarcastic or not.  If you read everything that Kaczmarek said, he really does appear to be humble: he's attributing his success largely to the success of the picture.  He doesn't say that he believed he would win because he was the best or only because of his talent but because he knows that scores associated with Best Picture nominees generally have a better shot in the running.  I don't see the gloating in acknowledging that you were along for the ride, so to speak.

Jeff, by the way... John Debney and Thomas Newman are each younger than Kaczmarek, so they'd better not be calling him "kid."

I agree. It's obvious Kaczmarek was being modest (genuinely or not). I give him props for that, but still it would be nice to hear his recognition of the great composers lost last year.

[diskobolus 3]

I don't understand. He comes across as a pompous fool, by insulting the other four films. "I knew I would win" ??

[Incanus 5,714]

I was so angry when they once more dicthed a Williams masterpiece for a fluffy piece of white noise.

This has happened for so many years in a row. Very very disappointing!

The Academy voters honor Williams only with nominations even if deserves the Oscar. Last few years I have been amazed how idiotic Williams' peers can be. This year they chose this mister nobody(whose name I don't even remember) over a true master of the form. I think that even when Williams would be nominated for 5 scores for one year they would find a way to give the prize to a "surprise winner" not even nominated.

Academy thinks that they are encouraging composers by giving them these "good work now compose some more" prizes as they have done for several years in a row. Tan Dun, Corligiano, Goldenthal all decent composers but atleast two of the aforementioned haven't composed for movies since then (well okay Tan Dun has done Hero but still it is very little). They "waste" Oscars on people who periodically (= once in ten years) compose scores and not on those who year after year produce memorable and complex movie scores (including Williams). One element Academy also favors is the exotic and different sounds. Easter influences and Mexican sound no matter how mediocre the score is seem to win the Oscar every time around.

So another year's wait in store for another Oscar disappointment. :cry:

[Bowie 45]

He's saying he credits the MOVIE for the win, not his exceptional talent.

That's the definition of modesty. He clearly understands the politics of Oscar voting. A Best Picture candidate in the tech categories has an edge over those without.

He does not insult the other films. If you still don't get it, just read it a few more times. It'll come

[King Mark 3,631]

I get it.He's right too.We should have seen it coming.I also think the soundmix has a lot to do with it.You can hear the PoA score much better on the c.d. than in the movie.Tghe sound mix in PoA is an improvement over CoS,but I had trouble hearing the music in a lot of scenes,even the Buckbeak's Flight could have been louder.

K.M.

[Bowie 45]

This year they chose this mister nobody(whose name I don't even remember) over a true master of the form. I think that even when  Williams would be nominated for 5 scores for one year they would find a way to give the prize to a "surprise winner" not even nominated.  

Academy thinks that they are encouraging composers by giving them these "good work now compose some more" prizes as they have done for atleast 6 years in a row. :cry:

Okay. I think we need to sticky an explanation of what winning an Academy Award actually means.

JACK SHIT!

They have no idea who John Williams is. They have no idea what the nominated scores sound like. They just blindly pick a winner, thinking that if it's nominated, it must be worthy. It's no big deal! They are not anti-John Williams.

[governor 0]

Okay,

You have to understand one thing : getting an Oscar is not just a question of artistic performance or creativity...

It's all about politics.

This years four nominees were A-list composers - top guys - working in hollywood, and LA based composers.

The competition is extremely tough in town ; consequently there was not a chance for James Newton Howard, John Debney, Thomas Newman, and John Williams to get the Oscar.

They will never give the award to them unless it's a huge hit.

The Academy votes for the "outsider" so to speak. The foreign composer or the NYC composer.

Gabriel Yared, Nicola Piovani, Anne Dudley, Ryuichi Sakamoto, Stephen Warbeck, Luis Enrique Bacalov, Herbie Hancock, John Corigliano and Alan Menken are all extremely talented composers - did they get bigger assignments ? no - with the exception of Gabriel Yared, none of them is now a A-list composer.

Smart votes from the Academy Members.

Regarding two NYC-based composers : Elliott Goldenthal and Howard Shore, I would say the same, they are not "insiders" in Hollywood, so better vote for them. Howard Shore was already scoring big films before LOTR.

In my humble opinion, in 2002 Mr Shore did win not only because he scored LOTR. He did get the award because James Horner, John Williams and Randy Newman are LA based composers.

This is an example among many others.

[MAG-SI 10]

That's true!

BTW: i'm listening right now to this Finding Neverland.... not even a nomination worthy!! We have some sick people in there (Academy)!

[MSM 126]

I wonder if Williams listened to the other nominees' contributions. Maybe he thought this time quality was really mediocre, which would be a explanation for why he was disappointed so obviously.

[Bowie 45]

He actually wasn't that disappointed. I taped it, and he was smiling when the camera zoomed in to Kaczmarek's nomination window and you could see his face more clearly.

He was also clapping lightly, out of view, denoted by a juddering bodily motion.

[Justin 2]

"He [kazwcki dude] creates a new trend in the American cinematography ? he writes a different kind of music from what Hollywood feeds on daily,"

Strange since his music sounds like Horner, Silvestri, and Debney combined.

Justin - Who thinks Kazwixki was right when he said he won because of his film. (Your music is good but not brilliant.)

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Finding Neverland is a great score. You people who are complaining that you can't even remember the composer's name, I bet if you tried...

JAN A. P. KACZMAREK

That might help.

Seriously, it is a good Oscar-worthy score. Yes, Williams didn't win. Yes, it's too bad. Yes, POA was better than its fellow nominees, but the Academy is blind. Oh well. There's always next year. I mean never.

(I don't know what he meant about the other films, POA was a great film and got really good reviews.)

~Sturgis

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Easter influences...seem to win the Oscar every time around.

Yeah, the Academy loves that egg-like "Peter Cottontail" feel, don't they?

~Sturgis

[Josh500 1,615]

My reaction comes a bit late, but I was in bed with the flu for the past three days. So here it comes:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Well, now that that's outta my system, I've gotta say I'm starting to think the Academy's just nominating Williams so they could watch lose him. Since he won for Schindler's List, wasn't this year like the tenth or eleventh nomination? Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. And yes, Williams WAS very disappointed (I think part for that was because Shore won three for his LOTR Trilogy, including the Best Song Oscar, so JW was hoping he would get at least one for the HP series). Sure, when the winner was announced he smiled, but the smile seemed to say "Here we go again . . ." Thomas Newman looked pissed, Howard looked kinda laid-back, maybe not expecting himself to win at all, and John Debney looked happy like a clam at high tide.

One other thing that I found strange was that during the montage they showed clips from the Duel of the Fates music video. What's THAT all about?

P.S. Oh yeah, I liked Chris Rock, laughed at most of his jokes ("I'm sure that some of you who're just tuning in are going, ' Damn, Whoopi looks good!'"), but I still like Billy Chrystal better.

LOL

[Justin 2]

Seriously, it is a good Oscar-worthy score.  Yes, Williams didn't win.  Yes, it's too bad.  Yes, POA was better than its fellow nominees, but the Academy is blind.  Oh well.  There's always next year.  I mean never.

The Academy can censored themselves. I liked the Finding Neverland score a lot, but I think it's obvious that even we here at JWFan put more thought into it than the actual voters did. POA should have won both categories. I noticed back in June that POA had simply stunning special effects, but you know the Academy.

Justin -

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I doubt the Academy will ever give Williams another Oscar. The general consensus seems to be that the man has enough of them already.

Gits.

- Marc

[MAG-SI 10]

Finding Neverland is a great score.  

Eh? 8O

I double checked the music I downloaded. I thought I got the MIDI version - but it was the one.... :roll: Didn't even make a bother trying to print the cover. And this was before the oscars.... :roll:

[Josh500 1,615]

I doubt the Academy will ever give Williams another Oscar. The general consensus seems to be that the man has enough of them already.

Gits.

- Marc

Then the Academy shouldn't nominate him, if he doesn't win anyway!!!!

But more to the point, I think he still has a chance. 8O

[Lurker 5]

The general consensus seems to be that the man has enough of them already.

My thoughts are he'll just never write a score as good as Jaws or Star Wars again.

Neil

[King Mark 3,631]

The general consensus seems to be that the man has enough of them already.

My thoughts are he'll just never write a score as good as Jaws or Star Wars again.

Neil

He has.many times.

K.M.

[hoby12 0]

The thing is John Williams of the present now fights the John Williams of the 70s,80s, to win. His incredibly outstanding scores which he won oscars for are benchmarks he will have to tie or surpass in order to win another one now. So in a sense if he doesn't hit a homerun, a jewel amongst his jewels, they will continue to give it to the other people of lesser quality. Even though to anyone with musical training the clear choice in terms of musicallity will always be JW.

[Jacck 23]

The general consensus seems to be that the man has enough of them already.

My thoughts are he'll just never write a score as good as Jaws or Star Wars again.

Neil

He has.many times.

K.M.

LOL yes, I was going to say the exact same thing..

[mahler3 478]

Scorsese loses. I screamed and jumped for joy.

Surely not?

Jeff -- not as mad as when Williams lost to "Fellowship of the Ring

Me too, but I always wondered how on earth Williams would climb out of his little podium if he did win, as that was the same year he conducted the orchestra! I think he even knows when he's not going to win. Loved the close-up of Williams graciously clapping Howard Shore.

Tim, who reckons Williams will again be nominated for two scores next year and win nothing! Who knows, maybe he will lose out to James Newton Howard & Hans Zimmer for Batman Begins! 8O

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

You guys must not get it. In Hollywood it's all about politics and world views. (This isn't politically charged because I'm not inserting my political opinions, I'm simply stating the facts about Hollywood.) If John scored a movie with a political slant that typical Hollywood loves, he'd win again. If he scores the movies that we (as John Williams fans) prefer (Star Wars, Indys, Potters, Spielbergs, ect.), he WON'T win. It has NOTHING to do with the QUALITY of the work. If he recorded four crappy notes for a movie that Hollywood elitists loved it would get more votes than a masterpiece for a movie that Hollywood looks down upon. And this isn't JUST for score. It's also for nearly every catagory. If you guys didn't notice it yet, you are blind. I don't watch such slanted polularity contests. If you want to see real winners and losers, watch a sport. I forget where it was stated... I read it somewhere... if the Oscars held a vote for the winner of the Super Bowl, the Eagles would win. (This isn't a knock to Eagles fans, because if the Patriots lost, they'd vote for the Pats.)

[King Mark 3,631]

I bet Clint Eastwood would have won for his score for Million Dollar Baby if it hadn't been disqualified.It won best picture and best director because it dealt with the issue of the right to die,not because it was a better film than The Aviator.

Willliams should score a film about some guy who overcomes somekind of disablilty,desease, or mental illness(even better),then he'll win.

K.M.