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Williams' themes in GoF


Josh500

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I can't find the official Harry Potter thread, so I'm just creating my own thread. Does anyone know whether any of John Williams' themes are used in GoF? Why isn't his name attached to GoF at IMDB --meaning no "Original Themes by John Williams"?

Is Patrick Doyle composing all the music, without reusing any of the older JW themes? Does anyone have answers to the these questions?

Also, would you like to hear JW music adapated by Patrick Doyle?

I'm really looking forward to the movie, but don't know how good it's gonna be without "Hedwig's Theme." But then again, Patrick Doyle might write his own Hedwig's Theme.

:pukeface:

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I have a strong feeling they're going to pull a 'Batman Forever' on this one, instead of a 'Jurassic Park III' or 'Superman II'. If you know what I mean.

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I have a strong feeling they're going to pull a 'Batman Forever' on this one, instead of a 'Jurassic Park III' or 'Superman II'. If you know what I mean.

Maybe, but I remember someone saying -- I think it was one of the producers -- that the music by John Williams is such an integral part of the Harry Potter series that it would be included no matter what, even if JW himself is no longer involved. Could that be true? I certainly hope so.

LOL

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Well what happened with Azkaban was John Williams set the musical direction at a pace where the following composer/s could write mostly new material. Apart from the reprise of Hedwig's Theme for the opening title, I doubt Doyle will be pressured into quoting themes along the way, though I'm sure he will definitely do so at his own desire.

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I think Doyle can't go without using Hedwig's Theme. He'll probably is going to write a couple of his own themes, but when the scene asks for it, he must use William's themes. He can't score the last scene of Gof at the graveyard without using Fawkes theme. It would be ridicolous if he tried to make his own Fawkes theme, because every attempt of no matter which composer to imitate something that's already near perfection will fail.

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God, I certainly hope Doyle isn't straightjacketed into adhering to Williams' themes. He's such a melodically gifted composer himself. I know I'm just banging my head against the wall by suggesting this, but why don't you try opening yourself up to new experiences? There must be more than one way to score a Harry Potter movie. Look at the Star Trek series, with memorable contributions by Goldsmith, Horner, and Rosenman. We've had different directors; now let's try different composers. If a change has to be made, Doyle's probably the best man for the job. In fact, we would have been in good hands had he scored the first three. Give him a shot. And have enough faith in him to try it his own way.

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Bravo, Figo. Although I would like to hear Hedwig's theme. (Kind of like Courage's theme is in most of the Trek films.)

Justin

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Well, let's see what happens. The whole Prokofiev thing (Hedwig, Capt. Hook, March of the Villains, Parade of the Ewoks) is much more Williams' terrain. I expect Doyle will hit paydirt in scenes requiring any kind of tenderness or nostalgia, and the pageantry of Hogwarts should satisfy.

FSM did a poll sometime ago. (Who should score the next Potter in the event Williams declines?) My first choice, believe it or not, was Richard Rodney Bennett. You can't get much more English than that! He can write like Walton reanimated. But Doyle is a strong second choice.

My biggest disppointment with the last film (other than the unnervingly pubescent stars) was the fact that so much of the Tom Brown charm was stripped away. Where were the gowns, the sense of time-honoured English custom? I can get blue jeans any day of the week, thank you. Bring back Mr. Chips!

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as they have said regarding GOF, this film should be the most British yet.

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It's certainly got to be more British than Sorcerer's Stone. What the hell is a Sorcerer's Stone, anyway? It couldn't be anything like a Philosopher's Stone, could it? I guess the bean-counters were afraid Americans might be put off by such an intellectual title. Sorcerers are fine, you see, but philosophers...

Ironic, don't you think, given the concept, that the publisher would do its best to try and spin gold into shit?

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He can't score the last scene of Gof at the graveyard without using Fawkes theme.

He will.

Although it would be great if he would use Fawkes' theme. And the He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named theme. And the Voldemort theme. And the Window to the Past theme...

I expect the only theme he will use from Williams is Hedwig's theme.

~Sturgis, :cry:, but I am looking forward to both movie and score

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If I were given this job and was told I had complete freedom, and wanted to do it freely, I would still incorporate the themes more subtly, for you guys. Or conscientiously create a new theme with inherent references to the relevant themes.

I can't imagine Doyle WOULDN'T put on the Chamber of Secrets cd and listen to the track that says "Fawkes the Phoenix" when scoring a scene with Fawkes involved. That would be quite impolite to completely ignore the previous music, for such an important film saga. And that piece does make quite a strong impression. Therefore, it'll be in the upcoming score to some extent. Simple.

Oh, and note that the new Goblet of Fire poster says "New music by Patrick Doyle" meaning, at least, that previous scores will be mixed in. Seems like ties will be drawn between themes.

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The beauty of Fawkes the Phoenix is that its perfect, it's tailor made for the scene at the end of the film. Doyle would be an idiot not to included it or perhaps Voldermort's theme.

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Oh, and note that the new Goblet of Fire poster says "New music by Patrick Doyle" meaning, at least, that previous scores will be mixed in. Seems like ties will be drawn between themes.

this menas Williams themnes are in for sure.Either tracked score or Doyle has to use Williams themes.Same music credit as Jurassic Park 3.

K.M.

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Who cares. The only thing I like about the HArry potter films are John's scores, without JW, they will suck imo.

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Who cares. The only thing I like about the HArry potter films are John's scores, without JW, they will suck imo.

then why even bother to reply to this thread. :micro:

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Who cares. The only thing I like about the HArry potter films are John's scores, without JW, they will suck imo.

then why even bother to reply to this thread. :micro:

LOL :)

~Sturgis

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Obviously, as countless others have said, Hedwig's Theme will be used in the upcoming score, at least for the opening. Like SW, it just wouldn't be Harry Potter without that familiar opening music. As far as anything beyond that, I doubt that Doyle will utilize many, if any, of Williams' other themes. Especially since Williams discarded so many of them himself in PoA. Of them all, the Nimbus 2000 probably has the best chance of appearing (besides Hedwig). And regarding Fawkes, I would absolutely love to hear the theme played in the graveyard where it's called for, but I don't expect it. I've learned that having very specific expectations for upcoming scores often leads to initial disappointment, so I'm keeping an open mind. I just hope that Doyle will be free to create his own fitting and unique HP score, without abandoning the spirit Williams injected into his three entries in the series.

Ray Barnsbury

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Well, let's see what happens.  The whole Prokofiev thing (Hedwig, Capt. Hook, March of the Villains, Parade of the Ewoks) is much more Williams' terrain!

This is the kind of Williams music I love most, it's a pity that we'll miss this for the next Potter. Williams wrote excellent Prokofiev music for the first two films (Platfrom 9 3/4, Dobby the House Elf, Norwegian Ridgeback, Entry into the Great Hall, Aunt Marge's Waltz, Secrets of the Castle).

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Like I wrote earlier: it's quite possible that they will pull a Batman Forever on this one. Many Batman and score fans really expected that Goldenthal would at least hint at Elfman's Batman Theme in his score for the third installment, but instead Goldenthal prefered to write his own Batman Theme although remaining in the mold that Elfman established.

I believe that Doyle will choose the same approach. He will adapt the sound of Hedwig's Theme, but I think he will write his own theme. Even for the opening of the film. Hearing the same sort of instrumentation (celesta and all) will please the general crowd even though the actual music may differ.

This is Patrick Doyle. Not a secondary composer.

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Oh, and note that the new Goblet of Fire poster says "New music by Patrick Doyle" meaning, at least, that previous scores will be mixed in. Seems like ties will be drawn between themes.

What Goblet of Fire Poster?

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Like I wrote earlier: it's quite possible that they will pull a Batman Forever on this one.  

I believe that Doyle will choose the same approach. He will adapt the sound of Hedwig's Theme, but I think he will write his own theme. Even for the opening of the film. Hearing the same sort of instrumentation (celesta and all) will please the general crowd even though the actual music may differ.

This is Patrick Doyle. Not a secondary composer.

I agree with you that Doyle is no secondary composer, but I somehow don't think that Doyle gets to decide whether John Williams's Hedwig's Theme should be incorporated or not. If the producers want the theme used, I think Dolye must accede to their wishes. Also, I can remember one of the producers saying that Hedwig's Theme is such an integral part of the entire series -- almost a trademark -- that it would be used no matter what. I certainly hope so . . .

:(

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Oh, and note that the new Goblet of Fire poster says "New music by Patrick Doyle" meaning, at least, that previous scores will be mixed in. Seems like ties will be drawn between themes.

What Goblet of Fire Poster?

The one at www.the-leaky-cauldron.org

you can scroll down to it.

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Hey good news, you guys. Check this out.

http://www.hpana.com/news.18516.html

So Hedwig's Theme AND Harry's Wondrous World will be used!!!! Hey, it's just a rumor but, yay!!!   LOL

The source they are quoting is a report that was on MuggleNet a while ago, and was from someone who claimed to have attended some rehearsals of the LSO where the source apparently heard this new music. This is false, as the LSO doesn't even get to see the music until the day it's recorded (as I understand it). They certainly wouldn't be rehearsing so far ahead.

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Hey good news, you guys. Check this out.

http://www.hpana.com/news.18516.html

So Hedwig's Theme AND Harry's Wondrous World will be used!!!! Hey, it's just a rumor but, yay!!!   LOL

The source they are quoting is a report that was on MuggleNet a while ago, and was from someone who claimed to have attended some rehearsals of the LSO where the source apparently heard this new music. This is false, as the LSO doesn't even get to see the music until the day it's recorded (as I understand it). They certainly wouldn't be rehearsing so far ahead.

Yeah, I officialy declared this report complete bunk a few weeks ago. Therefore it is. :)

As far as themes, Hedwig's is a near certainty due to it being the signature theme from the series. The rest are much less likely.

I would still love to hear A Window to the Past as the theme for Harry and Sirius in GoF and OotP, I think that would be the perfect use for it.

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I would also love to hear A Window To The Past in GoF and OotP, and Fawkes' Theme. I think Doyle will probably use Hedwig but not much else except maybe part of Harry's Wondrous World.

Oh, and btw, in my band at school, we are playing "Selections from Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets."

8O

:)

:ola:

I'm playing snare drum. It's a really uninvolved part, but it's very cool to hear parts of the score being played by the band. It includes "Prologue: Book Two," "Moaning Myrtle," "The Flying Car," "Dobby the House-Elf," "Gilderoy Lockhart," "Fawkes the Phoenix" ( :joy:), and "Harry's Wondrous World." Ironically, "The Chamber of Secrets" is not included.

I'm so excited!!

~Sturgis

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Well, it'll be interesting if Doyle uses Williams' themes. JP3 and the Superman sequels failed because the composers, ehhh, not so much with the talent! Well, Davis is all right. But Doyle is one of the best, sooo...

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It annoys me in that what's the point in establishing themes that aren't going to re-appear. Arguably this happened with PoA, but most of the previous themes needn't have returned because the characters the said leitmotifs were related to did not appear or at least were not central to the new movie. I'm all for Doyle and new themes, but only where there's nothing written for it yet - i.e. the three schools, The Tournament, Goblet, perhaps a Harry/Ron friendship theme (though I don't really expect their turmoil to make it to the movie). But having new music for anything related to Fawkes, Voldemort, the Potters or even Dobby should use Williams' themes. I'm not asking for the music to be tracked, HELL no. But as the previous characters will only appear for a brief time it makes sense to refer to them thematically. I was slightly disappointed that You-Know-Who's theme didn't make it to Trelawney's Prophecy, for example.

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I was slightly disappointed that You-Know-Who's theme didn't make it to Trelawney's Prophecy, for example.

Yes, that was a disappointing aspect of the PoA score for me; I still think it should've been used.

Ray Barnsbury

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I say let the man do what he wants. There's probably some pressure from the studio and director to use familiar themes, especially the opening Prologue, but to Goldenthal's credit, he just wanted to create his own material without laboring under the weight of lofty expectations from Elfman fans. It's Doyle's music, I think he should rightly do whatever he feels is best for the film, and not have to strain under Williams weight as a musical giant. Unless the key grip knows what a mixolydian scale is, no one on the Goblet of Fire production is remotely close to being as qualified to score the movie as Doyle. Don't get me wrong, I love Williams as much as the next nut on this board, but I don't see how this got to be a big deal. I am also saddened by his choice to pass this up, but no level of moaning is going to change all that.

Tim

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I was slightly disappointed that You-Know-Who's theme didn't make it to Trelawney's Prophecy, for example.

Yes, that was a disappointing aspect of the PoA score for me; I still think it should've been used.

Ray Barnsbury

Maybe since Williams was making more of a stand-alone score he figured something like that wouldn't work. The only theme other than Hedwig's, the Flying Theme, was used in a very obvious context. Would've been a nice nod to the previous scores, though. And appropriate thematically.

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Yes, well PoA is part of the reason I'm trying to refrain from having specific preconceptions of upcoming scores anymore.....it usually just leads to disappointment on the first listen, when everything isn't just as you imagined it. At least, that's what happened a little for me with a couple aspects of PoA--I got over it very quickly though and was soon able to appreciate the brilliance of the score. :P

Ray Barnsbury

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