The Doctor Who Thread.....

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

Yes. Chris Barry is in there, somewhere...and I assume that you know who "Robin Bland" is?

[Richard Penna 3,684]

On 1/28/2020 at 7:40 PM, Sweeping Strings said:

I'm part intrigued, part wary. 

 

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There's a rumour that the Master's 'Everything you think you know is a lie', the thing that made him raze Gallifrey to the ground is that he and the Doctor had incarnations previous to their 'first ones' and the Time Lords somehow/for some reason covered it up and made them forget about them ... hence the black female Doctor, apparently pre-Hartnell if the Tardis interior was anything to go by. 

So there's a chance we could be looking at a 'woke' sort-of retconning of the Doctor's past, presumably to 'atone' for him being a white bloke from Hartnell - Capaldi. And I'm kinda uneasy about that ... it doesn't need to be apologised for. 

That said, it was a pleasure to have that big intergalactic tart Captain Jack back. Hehehe. 

 

 

I'd agree that's a very plausible way of thinking:

 

Spoiler

Casting someone like the Doctor is a huge thing, and while they've taken the step of making them female, this seems a very easy way for them to involve BAME actors more. You've already got two black companions, now a black actress playing 'The Doctor', but without the baggage and politics of being 'The Doctor'.

 

I thought she was going to be another incarnation of The Master for a moment....

 

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

21 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Yes. Chris Barry is in there, somewhere...and I assume that you know who "Robin Bland" is?

Mr Dicks! 

Richard, here's yet another theory about who she might be ... a regeneration of Jenny, the 'Doctor's Daughter'. 

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

That could work.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

I was in the ideal circumstances to view this episode. my expectations were so low and I hadn't heard anything about the episode beyond knowing the Judoon were in it, that everything caught me off-guard completely. I'm really glad too because it's a first-watch experience I'll cherish, love delightful surprises like that.

I'm sorry for the people that had it spoiled, marketing gets extremely overzealous with things like this unfortunately.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I was spoiled on the returning character unfortunately (by Russell T Davies posting a selfie on Instagram, no less!). But I was completely shocked by the second twist in the episode.

 

Finally, Chibnall is taking some risks. The show has been rather dull and boring overall since Moffat left. Sure it’s a nice change of pace, but even at his worst Moffat knew how to shake things up and tell new stories. And he was never boring. Colour me intrigued, I’m looking forward to seeing where this goes.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

I see a gigantic season finale, with "The Doctor", Capt. Jack, and The Master.

[Arpy 4,145]

Not too keen on  

Spoiler

The Lone Cyberman 

For the first time in a long time, I scoffed at the idea thinking 'Now Doctor Who is beginning to lose it.'

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

'Praxeus' was easily the worst episode of the season so far for me ... as someone on Facebook put it 'A cross between an environmental lecture, a gay rights lecture and a bad remake of The Birds' .    

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

Hmm. Oh, dear. I haven't seen this one, yet, but I did enjoy the one with Capt. "and I mean tusks!" Jack.

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

Praxeus doesn't even acknowledge the 'curveballs' that Fugitive Of The Judoon threw the Doctor's way, although I assume they'll be dealt with in the next few eps/season finale.   

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

4 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Praxeus doesn't even acknowledge the 'curveballs' that Fugitive Of The Judoon threw the Doctor's way, although I assume they'll be dealt with in the next few eps/season finale.   

I remember being slightly bemused after the one-two of A GOOD MAN GOES TO WAR and LET'S KILL HITLER. What do we get? NIGHT TERRORS.

Sweep, it'll all work out, in the end. After all, we have the promise of a finale featuring The Master, Capt. "nice bottom!" Jack, the "Doctor", and this "lone Cyberman", whatever that is. It's approaching the resolutely average, which, on the basis of what I've seen of Chibnall's time, is a bloody miracle.

[stewdog1 50]

7 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

'Praxeus' was easily the worst episode of the season so far for me ... as someone on Facebook put it 'A cross between an environmental lecture, a gay rights lecture and a bad remake of The Birds' .    

Definitely. I almost turned it off during one of the three lectures about plastic. Probably should have. 

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I remember being slightly bemused after the one-two of A GOOD MAN GOES TO WAR and LET'S KILL HITLER. What do we get? NIGHT TERRORS.

Sweep, it'll all work out, in the end. After all, we have the promise of a finale featuring The Master, Capt. "nice bottom!" Jack, the "Doctor", and this "lone Cyberman", whatever that is. It's approaching the resolutely average, which, on the basis of what I've seen of Chibnall's time, is a bloody miracle.

Richard my friend, I'll go to my grave still not 100% sure of what unfolded in Let's Kill Hitler. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

Hee-hee. Sweep, I have that problem with the ending of the THE IMPOSSIBLE ASTRONAUT story.

 

Oh, dear. I've just thought. Remember what the nanogenes did to people, in THE EMPTY CHILD? Perhaps they do that to Jack?

[eitam 364]

Well I thought last night's episode, Praxeus, was very good! I liked the mystery, the hopping around the world, the companions coming into their own with a mission rather than standing uselessly behind the Doctor. Even the humor worked better than usual! Coming after Orphan 55, the ecological message had the advantage of looking nearly subtle and of pointing at something more immediately concrete and threatening, namely all that damn plastic.

Didn't recognize Warren Brown as Jake, and yet I rewatched some Luther just last month...

 

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

12 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

'Praxeus' was easily the worst episode of the season so far for me ... as someone on Facebook put it 'A cross between an environmental lecture, a gay rights lecture and a bad remake of The Birds' .    

 

Uhhh... where was the gay rights lecture? I'll give you the environmental lecture and the Birds remake, but an episode featuring a male married couple doesn't make it a "lecture". Sounds like the kind of person who thinks the mere presence of a queer or coloured person is some kind of political statement....

[Richard Penna 3,684]

The birds part of it is rather cool and the bacteria that 'eats' those people is really freaky.

 

Really didn't need the anti-plastic message, thank you, Mr Chibnall. Way too much environmental/anti-human preaching in this series.

 

I did like it though - everything except the actress playing that scientist - it's like they told her 5 minutes before filming

 

Spoiler

that she was the antagonist, because nothing about her performance or character changed at all. The guy playing the Master was better at the 'role reversal' thing.

 

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

11 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

 

Uhhh... where was the gay rights lecture? I'll give you the environmental lecture and the Birds remake, but an episode featuring a male married couple doesn't make it a "lecture". Sounds like the kind of person who thinks the mere presence of a queer or coloured person is some kind of political statement....

Strangely enough, I honestly think it was more subtly done when the showrunner was actually gay (RTD). 

 

Another commenter on FB noted that a lot of the ocean plastic was likely unsold Chibnall-era action figures, and that a show happy to slap its brand on any old bit of plastic tat preaching about plastic pollution was staggeringly hypocritical. I chuckled heartily.  

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

6 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

...I honestly think it was more subtly done when the showrunner was actually gay (RTD). 

You're correct.

Remember; JN-T was also gay. I think that Turlough stripping to his underwear was not just a part of the script .

Sweep, you're such hard work.

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

Well yes, he was indeed. He was also very fond of the ol' booze, which led to him departing this mortal coil in his early 50s. 

Not expecting to see that in Who any time soon  .

 

[Richard Penna 3,684]

On 2/3/2020 at 9:51 PM, eitam said:

Coming after Orphan 55, the ecological message had the advantage of looking nearly subtle and of pointing at something more immediately concrete and threatening, namely all that damn plastic.

 

Orphan 55 felt like The Doctor screaming down the camera at viewers shouting you've fucked the planet! It's all your fault - every last one of you.

 

This felt like Chibnall screaming down the camera instead, while still offering to sell you plastic action figures.

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

Can You Hear Me was an improvement over Praxeus, certainly ... kudos for the mention of the Celestial Toymaker (and other 'gods' from Who), for setting part of the story in 14th-century Aleppo and NOT lecturing about what's been done to it in modern times, and for a pretty creepy main 'big bad' and a reasonably intriguing story. 

But ... for gods, the villains seemed ultimately quite easily disposed of. And it was so the last 10 minutes could be spent on this week's 'message' (mental health awareness), which was probably more effectively and subtly handled in the Matt Smith 'Vincent And The Doctor' episode.       

[Richard Penna 3,684]

I haven't seen last night's yet, but I'm not liking this Chibnall trend of using Who to preach about social/environmental issues. I don't think that's what the show should be for - I feel it should be about the Doctor acting as mediator between humans and monster of the week, or facing some dilemma to which there is no obvious or politically-correct answer.

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

Yeah, it's not what I want from it either (especially now that it airs on the evening before the start of the working week). 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

...and right before CALL THE MIDWIFE. I mean...way to put me off lusting after Jenny Agutter! 

 

DOCTOR WHO has used its stories to highlight "environmental" issues (COLONY IN SPACE; SPEARHEAD FROM SPACE; THE GREEN DEATH; THE SUN MAKERS) but the message has never been so obvious, as it is now.

I'm sure you know @Sweeping Strings, but...one of the abandoned  season 23 stories was THE NIGHTMARE FAIR, in which The Doctor and Peri encounter The Celestial Toymaker (played by Michael Gough - how cool is that?!), in Brighton.

Btw, VINCENT AND THE DOCTOR is my favourite of all Smith stories. Tony Curran is phenomenal!

[Richard Penna 3,684]

It particularly irks me that all of this comes from a show which in the 'real world' has no issues with pushing out all manner of plastic toys/models/games/whatever, plus of course DVDs/BDs/CDs. You can't chastise your audience for contributing to the plastic crisis while also profiting from selling plastic rubbish.

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

3 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

...and right before CALL THE MIDWIFE. I mean...way to put me off lusting after Jenny Agutter! 

 

DOCTOR WHO has used its stories to highlight "environmental" issues (COLONY IN SPACE; SPEARHEAD FROM SPACE; THE GREEN DEATH; THE SUN MAKERS) but the message has never been so obvious, as it is now.

I'm sure you know @Sweeping Strings, but...one of the abandoned  season 23 stories was THE NIGHTMARE FAIR, in which The Doctor and Peri encounter The Celestial Toymaker (played by Michael Gough - how cool is that?!), in Brighton.

Btw, VINCENT AND THE DOCTOR is my favourite of all Smith stories. Tony Curran is phenomenal!

CTM is too 'cosy' for me ... after the Doctor, I go to Beeb 2 for Top Gear (although apparently its next series will see it move to Beeb 1). 

Now, there's a show still providing reliable escapism ... and frankly considering it has three white heterosexual bloke presenters who constantly rip the piss out of each other and then don't sit down for a *healing chat* about their hurt feelings afterwards, it's a minor miracle it's still on the BBC at all. 

Met Tony Curran at a Who/Torchwood specific con once, very nice fella! 

[Richard Penna 3,684]

I'm about 10 mins from the end of Can You Hear Me, and we have a new contender for the most boring episode of Who ever.

 

I just... have no clue at all about what just happened beyond something about two bored Gods and feeding some humans some nightmares. And some stuff about the companions/friends having some issues, because it's now obligatory for Who to give a weekly sermon and basically remind everyone how shit life is.

 

I think it's a massive shame that Whittaker's time as the Doctor is being massively held back this series by Chibnall & Co.'s mostly rubbish writing.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

1 hour ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Met Tony Curran at a Who/Torchwood specific con once, very nice fella! 

Are you sure he wasn't invisible, man? 

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

22 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

I'm about 10 mins from the end of Can You Hear Me, and we have a new contender for the most boring episode of Who ever.

 

I just... have no clue at all about what just happened beyond something about two bored Gods and feeding some humans some nightmares. And some stuff about the companions/friends having some issues, because it's now obligatory for Who to give a weekly sermon and basically remind everyone how shit life is.

 

I think it's a massive shame that Whittaker's time as the Doctor is being massively held back this series by Chibnall & Co.'s mostly rubbish writing.

I am hoping that the season finale has too much going on with the 'lone Cyberman' and Timeless Child/other Doctor storylines to crowbar in the 'messages'. 

Read a Facebook comment that said it reminded them of the 'This week we learned that ... ' bit at the end of the 80s Masters Of The Universe cartoon. Probably not a flattering comparison.   

 

And another thing ... Graham confides in the Doctor about his underlying fears regarding the return of his illness, and the best she's got is 'I'm socially awkward?'. Ugh, what the FUCK?  

Tosin Cole has apparently landed a 2-season role in a US drama, so I guess that's what the 'How long can this go on, Yaz?' stuff was about ... we can reasonably expect Ryan to depart/die at the end of this series.  

Whittaker has confirmed she'll do a third series, so the best thing would likely be for her and Chinballs to go after that. Then hire a showrunner and writers who if they must include 'messages', at least know how to do so subtly.   

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

A 'haunted-house' mystery that was gripping, creepy, amusing, set during a real-life historical event and which also featured a terrifying incarnation of a classic foe. The Doctor's 'speech' in this was not about some 'woke' concern du jour, but about having to wrestle with a moral dilemma. 

 

In other words, 'The Haunting Of Villa Diodati' felt like 'proper' Doctor Who ... it was easily the best episode since the curveball-throwing Judoon one, and one of this season's/Whittaker's best in general. An absolute belter  .  

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

Sweep, I haven't seen this one, yet. Was it as good as HIDE? I love HIDE, because it's as much a love story, as it is a ghost story.

 

1 hour ago, Sweeping Strings said:

concern du jour

That's going in the O.E.D.

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

I'd say so, yes. It was really good, I'm actually stoked for the 2-part finale now. 

[Richard Penna 3,684]

That was one of the best Whittaker era episodes. She finally kicked some ass with something that was an actual moral dilemma.

 

I read Frankenstein recently as part of a book club so this was rather nice timing. The reference to Frankenstein's monster from the half-converted cyberman was very clever.

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

Yes, the idea that meeting that Cyberman inspired Shelley to write Frankenstein was just cheeky enough ... the Doctor saying to her 'I know, why not write a story about a monster stitched together from body parts and reanimated?' or similar would've been far too 'on the nose' (but not out of the question, given some of this series' other deeply unsubtle writing).   

[Richard Penna 3,684]

I thought the 'reference' was wonderfully subtle. If you've read Frankenstein (and I mean the book, not the almost universally unfaithful adaptations) there's a major theme of the 'monster' really being a 'being' with feelings and emotions, and not just a monster. It's a rather striking parallel with cybermen, and partiucularly the Danny Pink episode. The line included in this episode was just enough to nicely make that link without ramming it down viewers' throats.

 

I found it interesting actuallly that while previous doctors made the 'I can't change the future' speech every five seconds, this is the first time that Whittaker has really had to bring it up in a properly moral sense and attack her companions for contemplating sacrificing someone. Rosa was different as it didn't involve life and death.

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

'You can't rewrite history. Not one line!' - First Doctor, 'The Aztecs'. 

 

I think they came to realise that they'd maybe backed themselves into a corner with this, because it hasn't exactly been a hard and fast rule since. See also the Doctor's not-exactly-rigid pacifism. 
 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

8 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Yes, the idea that meeting that Cyberman inspired Shelley to write Frankenstein was just cheeky enough...

Was it as cheeky as H.G.Wells getting inspiration, in TIMELASH, or as cheeky as Charles Dickens writing THE MYSTERY OF EDWIN DROOD AND THE BLUE ELEMENTALS?

[Richard Penna 3,684]

Finale part one review:

 

zzzzzZZZZZZ

 

If part 2 isn't really amazing, this easily goes down as the worst post-2005 series.

[Wojo 2,453]

Which is a shame because this new Master is quite entertaining. He just doesn't have good material beyond his cliché tagline. 

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

Well, I enjoyed it. Looking forward to a proper explanation of the Irish sub-plot next week, along with everything else. 

 

Liked the Cyberdrones (definite 'upgrade' from the Cybermats, lol) and how the new Cybermen's heads are a bit of a throwback to the 70s/80s model.  

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

I've not seen the latest episode, but I've caught up with DW, as far as THE HAUNTING OF VILLA DIODATI.

Seven episodes into the second series, and Whittaker's Doctor finally gets into her stride. I really liked the low-key CAN YOU SEE ME? I liked the whole "meditation on death" concept, coupled with the notions of regret, and lost opportunities.

Chibnall's tenure is as different from Moffatt's, as that was, from RTD's, and rightly so, for each successive showrunner brings - hopefully - something new to the table. I'm just sorry it took so long for Doctor 13 (or is that 14? ) to start making a good impression.

I shouldn't worry too much though; while season 24 was a bit rubbish, seasons 25 and 26 yielded some stone-cold DW classics. You don't believe me? Watch REMBERANCE OF THE DALEKS, THE GREATEST SHOW IN THE GALAXY, and THE CURSE OF FENRIC.

I'm looking forward to the finale; I especially want to know what "the lie" is.

 

[Molly Weasley 100]

Ok what was that? I have way more questions than I started with and there was exactly zero wrap-up

Edit:

Spoiler

for starters, the whole human race was wiped out and they never did anything to fix that. Jack's warning? The only seven surviving humans? Or was there a single throwaway line meant to explain/repair it that I missed?

 

[stewdog1 50]

2 hours ago, Molly Weasley said:

Ok what was that? I have way more questions than I started with and there was exactly zero wrap-up

Edit:

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for starters, the whole human race was wiped out and they never did anything to fix that. Jack's warning? The only seven surviving humans? Or was there a single throwaway line meant to explain/repair it that I missed?

 

It was an absolute mess. That is what it was. The writing is just horrible. Trying way too hard to manipulate emotions on a premise that should have been developed so much better. 

[Molly Weasley 100]

12 hours ago, stewdog1 said:

It was an absolute mess. That is what it was. The writing is just horrible. Trying way too hard to manipulate emotions on a premise that should have been developed so much better. 

Yep. The very definition of telling not showing. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

It's further proof that Chibnall couldn't run a bath, let alone a major television show, like DOCTOR WHO.

I really wanted to like this new series, but the rot has, well and truly, set in.

[Sweeping Strings 2,353]

I didn't mind it. I would like to know, however ... 

 

Spoiler

If the Doctor is a 'blow-in' from another planet rather than Gallifreyan by birth, how come (s)he has Time Lord physiology (two hearts)? 

 

There's to be a festive season special entitled 'Revolution Of The Daleks'.   

[Molly Weasley 100]

29 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

I didn't mind it. I would like to know, however ... 

 

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If the Doctor is a 'blow-in' from another planet rather than Gallifreyan by birth, how come (s)he has Time Lord physiology (two hearts)? 

 

There's to be a festive season special entitled 'Revolution Of The Daleks'.   

 

The only theory I could come up with is 

Spoiler

Maybe that's just how human-like beings were way back then. There was some other race that was also like that? Or maybe she was an abandoned time lord, who knows

 

[Wojo 2,453]

This is the same season that saw Jodie's Doctor choking in the limited air supply on future earth in the episode with the environmentally bleak lesson, even though she's supposed to be the same Doctor who carried Martha Jones with no sweat through the airless hospital on the Moon when the Judoon beamed it there in the third rebooted season. 

 

Shitty. 

Ass. 

Writing. 

 

 

Or maybe if Doctor McCoy can give a woman a pill to regrow a kidney, there's a Gallifreyan pill to grow a second heart.