The Doctor Who Thread.....

[Richard Penna 3,670]

Worst. Season. Ever.

 

I thought it was going somewhere interesting with the Doctor's 'revelation', but no.

 

I'm 10 minutes from the end and honestly have no idea what the heck's going on. Something about the cyberman being able to regenerate....

[MattyO 62]

I think it’s telling that the Series 12 soundtrack has been announced and there’s no buzz for it on any film music forums.

 

With recent revelations that the show is at its lowest interest level since it came back in 2005, I’d say the Beeb will be looking very carefully at how to proceed.

 

I’m rewatching the whole series from the 9th Doctor onwards and the fatal flaw of the Chris Chibnall era is that he’s completely forgotten what the show is about...the companions. They are the characters who are put through the ringer, they are the ones who help the Doctor see things from a less alien perspective.

 

More was achieved in the final 2 episodes of Capaldi’s run in developing Bill and what being a companion means to the Doctor than we’ve had in the 21 Chibnall episodes to date. It’s impossible to properly develop the three companions they insist on having when every episode needs to come up with more and more dopier reasons for the three of them to be separated from the Doctor and each other.

 

I for one sorely miss Steven Moffat and think the criticisms thrown at him during his tenure now pale in comparison to how daft the show has become. Peter Capaldi’s run was genius storytelling, giving proper character arcs to Clara, Bill, The Doctor and Missy with cinematic flare.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

1 hour ago, MattyO said:

I for one sorely miss Steven Moffat

Indeed I really liked his positive spin on things.

He could get a bit carried away with the complexities, but hey... It was fun!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Moffatt always had ambition, while Chibs plays it safe for the most part, but when he does take risks it’s in the most excruciatingly boring way.

 

I also miss the writing being, well, literary. Moffat’s best scripts are oozing with double meaning, poetry, dealing with more abstract interpretations of good and evil (moreso in the Capaldi era; the “mercy” through-line of The Witches Familiar is a good example). And he always zagged when you thought he would zig. Sometimes that could be frustrating, but over time I’ve come to appreciate his bait-and-switch storylines. Especially Hell Bent, which is set up as an epic showdown as the Doctor finally arrives on his home planet after going through literal hell, only for a much smaller story about grief and obsession to play out instead.

 

I miss having to actually think while watching Doctor Who, instead of having everything spoon-fed and dumbed down.

[Arpy 4,145]

Chibnall and co. seem to have fallen prey to the new identitarian shift that most media is going through and instead of presenting a series of interesting and fun stories, it's 'sermon-of-the-week' of how humankind is bullshit. 

 

I liked some of the Yaz and Ryan material, and Graham too, but they could only push that so far with the time they have and the stories they chose to tell. Whittaker barely gets to shine when it's her three companions sob story every other scene. 

 

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

Tosin Cole and Bradley Walsh (Ryan and Graham) are leaving Who, this year's festive special will see their departure.  

[Richard Penna 3,670]

10 hours ago, Arpy said:

Chibnall and co. seem to have fallen prey to the new identitarian shift that most media is going through and instead of presenting a series of interesting and fun stories, it's 'sermon-of-the-week' of how humankind is bullshit. 

 

That's exactly the problem. Rather than writing interesting stories and moral dilemmas, it's about how many times they can 'impress' critics and viewers with how many contemporary issues they can preach about.

 

There were one or two interesting ones in this series, but far too often it felt like they had a whiteboard of current social issues and spent 15 mins writing some wibbly-wobbly stuff round it.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey! 

[Arpy 4,145]

Yes, I think for the survival of the show, it needs to take a look back at what made Who successful in the recent past, not jeopardize the future with anti-Who.

[Wojo 2,453]

9 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Tosin Cole and Bradley Walsh (Ryan and Graham) are leaving Who, this year's festive special will see their departure.  

 

Graham turned out to be a funny pleasant old man. I don't think Tosin Cole can act worth a damn. 

[Arpy 4,145]

I thought they were fine actors, just lodged with silly writing.

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

Cole alternated between not too bad and wooden as hell, but somehow he's landed a 2-season part in a US drama. I'll miss Walsh, he was a safe pair of hands even in the shoddier episodes. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

8 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

I'll miss Walsh, he was a safe pair of hands even in the shoddier episodes. 

 

True, but at the same time he's perhaps the most unlikely of the three companions as he always seems to be on top of every situation and technology right away. 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Just watched those final two episodes.

Good grief, that is DARK.

Where did the FUN Doctor Who go???

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Cryptic clue to an Eccleston reunion? Or did you just find the jacket in a theatre cloakroom? Tell us!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

Eccleston was done with DOCTOR WHO, as soon as he'd finished filming his series. The chances of Eccleston returning to DOCTOR WHO are about as great as the chances of anything coming from Mars.

I believe that the person concerned has already "modeled" the coat, for JWfan.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

4 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

Cryptic clue to an Eccleston reunion? Or did you just find the jacket in a theatre cloakroom? Tell us!

 

It's my closet.

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

3 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Eccleston was done with DOCTOR WHO, as soon as he'd finished filming his series. The chances of Eccleston returning to DOCTOR WHO are about as great as the chances of anything coming from Mars.

I believe that the person concerned has already "modeled" the coat, for JWfan.

'I'm leaving because I don't like how the people behind the show treated those who worked on it'. 

Fast-forward 8 years to the prepping of the 50th anniversary special. The show is once again one of the BBC's most popular, and the production team are now all different people including showrunner Steven Moffat who reaches out to Eccleston about appearing in a scene in which John Hurt's War Doctor will regenerate into him ... and he says no. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

1 hour ago, Sweeping Strings said:

...no. 

Explain yourself. What is the meaning of this negative?

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

Recently watched The War Machines, whose 'big bad' is a super-computer called WOTAN installed at the top of the then-new Post Office Tower. WOTAN is designed to link up with other computer systems around the world in a problem-solving capacity ... so that's basically the internet, in a First Doctor story from 1966. Crikey. 

Currently watching Underworld, a Fourth Doctor story apparently unpopular with the fandom due to its extensive use of budget-conscious early bluescreen ... must say, to me it's no worse than having the actors wandering through what are clearly caves made of fibreglass in a BBC TV Centre studio. 

Speaking of Tom Baker am having a great time with Scratchman, his 2019 Fourth Doctor novel that started life as a proposed movie script written by himself and co-star Ian Marter during Baker's tenure but which they were ultimately unable to raise the budget for.   

New issue of Doctor Who Magazine has the results of their most recent reader's poll ... the three least popular episodes from this year's series? Can You Hear Me, Praxeus and Orphan 55. Bears out my opinion that the vast majority of us don't tune in to be lectured. 

  

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

THE WAR MACHINES is notable for saying "goodbye" to Dodo, and "hello" to Polly and Ben. It was also the last story of series three, and was (probably) the story that convinced the Sixth Floor to replace Hartnell.

It's also the only story where The Doctor is referred to as "Doctor Who".

 

I haven't seen UNDERWORLD in a while. I'll revisit it, soon as.

 

I liked CAN YOU HEAR ME, and I've forgotten what PRAXEUS was all about (something to do with flesh eating rubbish?), but ORPHAN 55 was not only the worst 13th Doctor story by a country mile, it probably the worst Doctor Who story ever!

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

I was enjoying Can You Hear Me? up until the bad-guy 'gods' were dealt with really rather easily so the last 10 minutes of the episode could be spent on a mental health awareness lecture, part of which was the Doctor having nothing to say to Graham about his fears that his cancer may return one day ... our kindly, empathetic, 'never cruel or cowardly' hero has absolutely no words of comfort for her companion? Terrible writing. 

Orphan 55 was mostly fine up until the climate-change 'soapboxing'. Praxeus made me think of how much better The Green Death was at including eco concerns without losing sight of how it should primarily be an exciting and fun sci-fi adventure.   

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

The last shot of THE GREEN DEATH, is the saddest ever in DW.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

Christopher Eccleston is returning to DW, in a Big Finish audio book series!

This gives me hope for the 60th anniversary.

[Wojo 2,453]

Fantastic! 

[Richard Penna 3,670]

On 8/4/2020 at 12:41 PM, Sweeping Strings said:

I was enjoying Can You Hear Me? up until the bad-guy 'gods' were dealt with really rather easily so the last 10 minutes of the episode could be spent on a mental health awareness lecture, part of which was the Doctor having nothing to say to Graham about his fears that his cancer may return one day ... our kindly, empathetic, 'never cruel or cowardly' hero has absolutely no words of comfort for her companion? Terrible writing. 

Orphan 55 was mostly fine up until the climate-change 'soapboxing'. Praxeus made me think of how much better The Green Death was at including eco concerns without losing sight of how it should primarily be an exciting and fun sci-fi adventure.   

 

It seemed to be a running theme for series 12 that 10 minutes at the end was perpetually reserved for a Chibnall lecture. I was very tired of it by the end.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

Eccleston update: the series will be released next year, beginning in April, and will be spread over 12 episodes. Billie Piper is also returning, as Rose.

[Arpy 4,145]

I haven't listened to any of the Doctor Who audio dramas, might have to start with Eccleston!

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

'Time Lord Victorious' is an ambitious recently-launched multi-platform Who project (https://www.doctorwho.tv/time-lord-victorious/ ) ... apparently although the component comics/audio adventures/novels etc tell one big story, they also work as standalones. 

With that in mind above is the trailer for the only part of it you can experience for free, effectively ... an animated Dalek series, on YouTube from November 12th.  

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

It's a nice trailer, but...why don't those freaking Daleks just chill? I mean, every time they've met The Doctor, he's whupped their ass. Every time! *

 

 

* ok, except VICTORY OF THE DALEKS.

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

Ah yes, the episode that gave us both the very cool khaki 'Ironsides' Dalek and the horrendous multi-coloured iPod docks that were the 'New Dalek Paradigm'. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

Happy 57th birthday, Doctor!

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

So...the woman to Whittaker's left...is she "official", now? Where's Richard E. Grant?

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

Grant will clearly only ever be the non-canon 'needed someone for the 40th anniversary' Doctor ... wonder why Scream Of The Shalka wasn't animated with McGann's Doctor? He still would've been the most recent 'official' incarnation in 2003. 
 

Looking pretty good. Glad to see that the 'Arachnids In The UK' bad guy might finally get his comeuppance. And more Captain Jack! 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

This looks like it's approaching "quite good" (sorry, Chibs; still not a fan).

Nice to see Chris Noth, again.

A quick question: if there is "maximum extermination", then what is "minimum extermination"? A paper cut?

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

Finished watching 'The Web Planet' last night ... the first 2 episodes were fun, with Hartnell in full-on 'twinkly granddad' mode. The remaining 4 unfortunately suffered from that thing that sometimes afflicts Who of old where it looks a bit like an overambitious amateur dramatics troupe have decided to stage a sci-fi drama. 

Rewatch of Orphan 55 afterwards ... the enviro-preaching still grated, as did that bloody old woman wittering on about 'Benni!' every couple of minutes. The 'Dregs' were a pretty decent monster, though. 

[eitam 364]

11 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Rewatch of Orphan 55 afterwards ... 

 

Why would you do that to yourself ?? 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

20 minutes ago, eitam said:

Why would you do that to yourself ?? 

He's right, @Sweeping Strings.

ORPHAN 55 is generally regarded as the worst DW story, ever. It's even worse than DIMENSIONS IN TIME, and that's saying something 

THE WEB PLANET, on the other hand is a minor masterpiece, and the closest that DW ever got, to experimental theatre. I love it.

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

On the upside, the next ep is the one with Tesla. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

Anything with Robert Glenister in it, gets my vote.

It's a shame that he's only appeared in two DW stories, but just look at the first one...

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

So who does everyone think will be the next showrunner after Chibs? Assuming he doesn’t inadvertently put the show in another 16-year coma, which for all his flaws I hope doesn’t happen.

 

I can’t think of any heir apparent in the way that Moffat was to RTD. I expect it’ll be someone like Nicholas Briggs who seems to be keeping Big Finish afloat, though I don’t listen to the audio dramas as much as I should so I don’t know how good a writer/producer he is. Jamie Campbell? He wrote some tremendous episodes in Twelve’s run. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,497]

Not so long ago, there were rumours of Neil Gaiman taking over. I've no idea who's in the running, now, or when Mr. Chibnall will leave (let's hope that that's very, very soon!).

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

I like Gaiman as a book writer, and he also seems to be skilled at screen adaptations (see Good Omens), but his (screen) Who hasn't been my favourite.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

Meh. Goofy villains, goofy danger, goofy character development*, and a climax that essentially consists of the Doctor going "trust me" and a couple of moments later explaining to the Daleks that they've been lured into a trap and have now lost.

 

*)

Spoiler

Apparently, the Doctor has been in prison for decades, but all her "fam" goes on about is how she's left them on their own for 10 months.

 

[Molly Weasley 100]

4 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Meh. Goofy villains, goofy danger, goofy character development*, and a climax that essentially consists of the Doctor going "trust me" and a couple of moments later explaining to the Daleks that they've been lured into a trap and have now lost.

 

*)

  Hide contents

Apparently, the Doctor has been in prison for decades, but all her "fam" goes on about is how she's left them on their own for 10 months.

 

 

And is it just me or did they never actually acknowledge the fact that all of humanity was wiped out during the previous 2-part finale and it was never fixed? 

[Arpy 4,145]

Doctor Who needs a serious overhaul and a sharp return to the quality of stories that made the reboot successful. Jodie is a fine Doctor, suffocated by abysmally boring writing and a lack of focus on what made the character special. I have a feeling the show is on it's last legs and to be a fan since the 2005 reboot fifteen years ago, it's somewhat depressing to see it nosedive so hard into the ground.

[Richard Penna 3,670]

I have yet to watch this, but given the atrocious quality of series 12, I wasn't hopeful.

 

The shame is that it has nothing to do with the cast or Whittaker, - it's down to boring stories that are built around a politically fashionable message, instead of moral dilemmas to which there is often no right answer.

 

They basically need a new showrunner - Chibnall has wrecked Who with this last series.

 

At least Segun Akinola is still managing to put out some good music.

 

And surprise of the morning - the complete score from this special was released today! Akinola confirmed on twitter that it's the entire score, and that a physical release is coming. He rocks.

 

https://twitter.com/segunakinola/status/1345099920534081538

 

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

I quite enjoyed it ... no 'preaching', at least. I hope that when the 'just desserts' finally land for Chris Noth's character, they are bloody SPECTACULAR. 

'Unhoused' Dalek creatures are a lot creepier in half-light, so I'm glad they were shot like that. The episode-end reveal that -
 

Spoiler

John Bishop is to be a companion

 
- was a unspoilered surprise, which was nice.