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The Doctor Who Thread.....


Greg1138

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7 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Again; he ticks no boxes per se, he's just a damn good actor. Who the hell cares if he doesn't have Clooney's looks, or Craig's physique? When you The Doctor, it's character that matters.

 


What a strange comparison. He’s a perfectly handsome gentleman? None of the Doctors look like Clooney or Craig, and Sheen is arguably just as, if not more conventionally attractive than any of the other revival Doctors. Not that it matters of course, Matt Smith hasn’t left my dreams since 2010.

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Rounded out my re-watch of the Capaldi years and, unlike first time round, his regeneration made me a little teary. Watching all of his episodes close together made me more appreciate his Doctor's character arc from really quite hard work at the start to having some of his rough edges smoothed out by his companions (as, I think, is often the point). Having said that, Twice Upon a Time is a bit of a messy swan song that goes off in several different directions - the First Doctor's regeneration, Mark Gatiss' solider, Bill, a library of souls (basically), a huge storage database accessed through the "good" Dalek from Into the Dalek. Having said that, each bit is done pretty well. The inappropriately old fashioned comments from the First Doctor to Bill (in particular) are amusingly dealt with and David Bradley was born to play William Hartnell's Doctor, both as a fine actor doing more than just an impersonation, and through his startling resemblance.

 

One of the key drivers of Capaldi's last episode is the Doctor's "first" incarnation having to deal with his "first" regeneration, which is dealt with really effectively, but utterly shot to pieces by the Timeless Child storyline in the last couple of series. It turns a poignant exploration of a character dealing with his (sort of) mortality into something less meaningful, which is the opposite to what Moffat presumably intended - that being to show a side to the Doctor that was never really revealed in the classic series.

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Been listening to Big Finish’s Dalek Universe starring the Tenth Doctor, just finished Volume 2.

 

It is damn good, David Tennant slips back into the role effortlessly and most of the stories are quite strong and give him lots to do, and fulfil many opportunities to continue some of the themes set up in his era.

 

His two companions are pretty compelling and form a great family as well as co-worker dynamic. The awesome thing about Big Finish is that they’ve actually encountered The Doctor before in earlier stories, so they already have a rich foundation in the universe.

 

Here’s my sale-pitch for the series: The 10th Doctor gets shunted into the pre-Time War era without his TARDIS thanks to an experiment with time gone wrong and interacts with many of Terry Nation’s original creations, with characters and arcs also inspired by his writing style, in an effort to escape back to the right side of history.

 

It is very pleasing to me that I can continue to be a current fan of Doctor Who even if the show is horrendously lacking - this only came out this year!

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On the next Doctor - one truly wonders. I see the BBC-co-produced (Tennant-starring, incidentally) new adap of Around the World In Eighty Days has a black Passepartout and Fix the policeman has morphed into a female journalist.  

I'm reminded of the recent Beeb adap of War Of The Worlds, in which Eleanor Tomlinson's character was a degree-qualified astronomer's assistant something like 10 years before the Suffragette movement. Lol ... the Beeb just can't help themselves, can they? 

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I'm not sure whether they're more likely to pursue diverse casting as a way to highlight change in the show, or whether they want to reestablish the show on firm footing and want to go back to a male lead. Really, it's a sad reflection that we're even discussing these elements for such a big show.

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3 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

I see the BBC-co-produced (Tennant-starring, incidentally) new adap of Around the World In Eighty Days has a black Passepartout and Fix the policeman has morphed into a female journalist.  

 

This is hardly unique to this production or even recent. Looking (quickly) over the history of productions Passepartout has been at the very least Mexican and Chinese. (Although he was played by Eric Idle. Interesting.)

 

I'd rate the odds of seeing a male Conseil in 20,000 in any future adaptation of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea to be 0.

 

I'm looking forward to it. OTOH, Tenant has been very vocal about how 80 Days represents everything bad about the British.

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The one with Eric Idle you mention has Pierce Brosnan as Fogg, I think ... wouldn't mind seeing that. 

I've seen the first ep of the Tennant one. It wasn't bad, but having seen the comments of his you mention I don't think I'll bother with the rest. 

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On 30/12/2021 at 6:42 AM, Naïve Old Fart said:

Agreed, @Tom Guernsey.

I just wish that there was more of Polly and Ben, in Capaldi's last story.

I've posted before and I'll post again: "the timeless child" is complete bollocks. RTD needs to obliterate it.

 

I guess it was probably felt that it would be harder to retcon them into this insertion into an original DW story, which was otherwise possible due to Hartnell being absent for a chunk of the original serial. Plus, it would then likely require more explanation rather than focus on the two Doctors and the rest of the story. Can't disagree about the Timeless Child thing! It's a shame as the way RTD and SM added to the richness of the Doctor's character and backstory (which didn't really happen much in the original show, let's be honest) worked really well in the context of the established DW universe, the Timeless Child however, is just unnecessary.

 

Quite looking forward to DT in Around the World in 80 Days. I couldn't care less about gender or colour blind casting - let's face it, nobody batted an eyelid when Jackie Chan was Passepartout. Although the best version of Around the World in 80 Days for me will always be the "real" one with Michael Palin. Absolutely loved it. His latest adventures got increasingly contrived, but the original has a terrific mix of adventure and drama (the will he/won't he moments are far more genuine than any modern "reality" TV show) all held together by MP's warmth and gentle humour. I met him at a book signing once, he was every bit as wonderful as you would hope.

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Me too - he was signing copies of the tie-in book to his Brazil series. He shook hands and wished me a lovely Christmas (signing was in late Nov/early Dec). Also saw the live tour show based on his diaries. 

A man truly deserving of national treasure status. And now I come to think of it, would've probably been great Doctor casting at one stage (I'm imagining the 'Oh, I like to travel/see the universe' in-jokes now, lol).  

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I caught a couple episodes of the final Capaldi series on BBC America yesterday.  Much like for the whole Capaldi era, I think fan appreciation of that series will only grow with time.

 

(FTR the episodes were "Thin Ice" and "Knock Knock", thumbs up for both!)

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20 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I caught a couple episodes of the final Capaldi series on BBC America yesterday.  Much like for the whole Capaldi era, I think fan appreciation of that series will only grow with time.

 

(FTR the episodes were "Thin Ice" and "Knock Knock", thumbs up for both!)

I hope so... I definitely enjoyed watching his tenure over a few weeks rather than spread out as it was when originally broadcast. You get a much better sense of the character arc for his Doctor, plus his relationships with Clara, Missy, Bill, as well as Me/Ashildr and Nardole (Matt Lucas is great value - I never liked Little Britain, but he did a great turn in DW). Plus there are some great episodes and Capaldi is, of course, brilliant.

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It was OK ... trouble with time-loop things is that the (inevitable) repetition can start to grate, and I certainly found that. Liked the 'souped-up' Dalek weaponry, even if they sometimes appeared to have been to the same marksmanship school as Stormtroopers. 

Yaz being 'hot' for the Doctor confirmed ... I look forward to them finger-banging each other against the Tardis console :lol: . 

Ooh! Sea Devils!    

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Well… that was actually entertaining? And somewhat reasonably focused? In the hands of Moffat or RTD it could have been really good, but despite getting a bit out of balance toward the end (or a feeling for time - each iteration gets shorter and yet they get more stuff done during the final one than ever before?), it was probably the most enjoyable entry of Chibnall's entire tenure yet. Concentrating on characters helped. Once again, Akinola referencing I Am the Doctor was the most (and probably only) memorable bit of score (and really just served to remind you that one scene with Gold's score used to have more musical content than an entire series does now).

 

I've lost track - how many episodes does Whittaker's Doctor have left now?

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A very good episode, for a change ! I like time loops in general, and here Chibnall doesn't screw it up too much. It helps that there is some solid humor, and a GREAT turn by Aisling Bea. 13 gives a little speech that could have been a defining moment of her tenure, if only it had happened 20 episodes ago. 

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1 hour ago, eitam said:

and a GREAT turn by Aisling Bea.

 

Aye.

 

1 hour ago, eitam said:

13 gives a little speech that could have been a defining moment of her tenure, if only it had happened 20 episodes ago. 

 

Or better written. Whittaker shines as much as she possibly could with it, but ultimately falls flat because the words just don't convince me. It would be nice to have her back in a special in a few years with a script that really does her justice.

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I was expecting to sleepwalk through that episode but it turned out to be the first Chibnall Who I've truly enjoyed in a very long time. A nice simple story without unnecessary complexity. Unlike most of Flux, my attention was not only kept, but I was excited the whole way through, and actually cared about the two sub-characters.

 

Now why does Chibnall have to make three entire series before he actually does some good stuff...

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Sarah had some unbelievable reactions at times but it was nice to see a character in a Chibnall script with genuine personality and humanity to them. I think a lot of that cheekiness was carried by an Irish accent though haha

Honestly wish she was a companion instead

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  • 3 weeks later...

Apparently, the same BBC source who leaked Sacha Dhawan's casting as the Master has said that David Tennant has been cast ... not as the returning Tenth, but as the Fourteenth Doctor! 

Maybe not as crazy as it sounds, what with Deep Breath indicating that the Doctor has a choice in how his regens look ('Who frowned me this face?') and the Curator in The Day Of The Doctor saying to Eleven 'Maybe you'll find yourself revisiting some of the old faces ... who knows?'. And RTD has begun 'reassembling' the team who worked on Who with him first time round (Phil Collinson is back as producer) so ... why not the Doctor too? 

Source says that this is a specific attempt to bring back viewers. lol, more shade thrown at Chibnall's era.   

   

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8 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Apparently, the same BBC source who leaked Sacha Dhawan's casting as the Master has said that David Tennant has been cast ... not as the returning Tenth, but as the Fourteenth Doctor! 

Maybe not as crazy as it sounds, what with Deep Breath indicating that the Doctor has a choice in how his regens look ('Who frowned me this face?') and the Curator in The Day Of The Doctor saying to Eleven 'Maybe you'll find yourself revisiting some of the old faces ... who knows?'. And RTD has begun 'reassembling' the team who worked on Who with him first time round (Phil Collinson is back as producer) so ... why not the Doctor too? 

Source says that this is a specific attempt to bring back viewers. lol, more shade thrown at Chibnall's era.   

   

I love David Tennant and would happily see more of his adventures but this feels like a bit of a retrograde step. I'm sure RTD and a new actor would be quite able to make their mark on the show without needing to revisit one of the old Doctors as well. To be fair, these leaks/rumours are likely to come thick and fast in the coming month or two... but it seems like an announcement is relatively imminent.

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54 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Source says that this is a specific attempt to bring back viewers. lol, more shade thrown at Chibnall's era.   

 

If it's true, then I can't help but put my cynical hat back on, and assume that the BBC realised what a mess Chibnall made, and that they need a fast change in direction.

 

I 200% support said move - the 'cynical' aspect being that the BBC would never publicly acknowledge the real reason.

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Of course the crucial question still to be answered is the return of Murray Gold... if nothing else (and being cynical), his return would probably greatly increase the chance of them being able to do Doctor Who concerts and Proms again. As I've mentioned before, although his music has got better (albeit from a pretty uninspiring start), I don't think anyone is clamouring to go to a concert of Segun Akinola's music...

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25 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

...the 'cynical' aspect being that the BBC would never publicly acknowledge the real reason.

Indeed, in the same way that Auntie never acknowledged its cancellation in 1985, or 1990.

The "real" reason, for anyone on the 6th floor who happens to be reading this, is...

25 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

...a mess Chibnall made...

...by completely fucking DW, and its fan-base, in the ass.

Not too sure about Tennant returning. It sounds like appeasement, to me. If they got Eccleston back, then I would be impressed.

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I'll be bloody delighted if it's true ... Tennant is by far my favourite Doctor since the series returned and as I've previously said a recent rewatch of a two-parter from the series with Catherine Tate reminded me of the joyously evident 'swing in its step' the show had then, which I would dearly love to see it regain.   

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Interesting. It sounds like a lame idea instinctively, but as a new element of the whole regeneration cycle, it probably offers some interesting aspects to explore, with the Doctor choosing an "older" version of a former self as the new incarnation. And it obviously allows them to play it safe without starting a discussion about why they went right back to a white straight male Doctor after just one woman - and at the same time allows them to try out something new next time without the other folks complaining "but we just had a woman already".

 

If this happens, I hope Tennant is allowed to keep his accent this time. And I demand a special where he meets Ten.

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12 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

 

If this happens, I hope Tennant is allowed to keep his accent this time. And I demand a special where he meets Ten.


Previous Scottish Doctors McCoy and Capaldi got to use their own accents, so it seems only fair that Tennant would this time round.  

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I don't believe it. I'm not even sure I'd be happy if it were true. (Diamonds are Forever is not only my least favorite Connery Bond but it's one of my least favorite Bond movies.)

 

Now if they want to give me some more seasons of Duck Tales? Then we can talk!

 

Now (and this is totally bat shit crazy making stuff up) -- If they can do a full season long As Many Doctors As They Can Get 60th season? Whooooo doggy. Hell, I'd love to see Jodie in some really great Who.

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Seems extremely unlikely.

 

What is likely is that Tennant is coming back for the 60th. And I can only hope that means Smith and Capaldi are coming back too. I can already hear Twelve ragging on Ten for his footwear and haircut, just like War did. emot-allears.gif

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On 24/01/2022 at 5:22 PM, Tom Guernsey said:

Random thought… surely it’s one thing for the Doctor to choose how they look but why would the personality of an older incarnation necessarily reappear just because the Doctor had chosen that face?!

 

If this were true, why would the Doctor always complain that he wasn't yet a Ginger but always wanted to be... If he had the power to make it happen? It was a long running joke. 

 

If the Doctor had control over his everything at the point of regeneration, what convinced Twelve that he wanted to become a female Doctor?  I'm okay with the decision to give more roles to women for the sake of diversity and representation. It gives girls good role models. Encanto, Jodie Whittaker... Hell, even "Lisa the Simpson" S9E17 had a good message. Girls need to belong. 

 

But very little about Twelve and previous Doctors said they were unhappy as a man to want to change that drastically. I'm not qualified to explore this as a trans allegory.

 

I'm happy with regeneration being random.

 

But I kinda think that going from a white woman back to a white man is anti-progressive. 

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I can well believe it's a move designed to bring back viewers ... now I know 'overnight' figures are not the full story when it comes to ratings nowadays, but the NY special got 3.5 million. Who festive specials used to get comfortably twice that, if not more. 

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4 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

I can well believe it's a move designed to bring back viewers ... now I know 'overnight' figures are not the full story when it comes to ratings nowadays, but the NY special got 3.5 million. Who festive specials used to get comfortably twice that, if not more. 

 

Oh it's definitely a viewer-reclamation move. I guess the only question is how cynically to view it... are the Beeb just thinking that RTD/Tennant are a good way to refresh the show, or is it full-on survival strategy, and they privately realised that putting Chibnall in charge was a big mistake.

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As somebody who thinks the announcement of RTD's return being made before Flux had even begun airing was a VERY deliberate piece of timing by the Beeb ... my money's on the latter. 

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19 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

As somebody who thinks the announcement of RTD's return being made before Flux had even begun airing was a VERY deliberate piece of timing by the Beeb ... my money's on the latter. 

 

Agreed. Although the Chibnall...ahem..."era", will go down in DW history as the Worst. Tenure. Ever., the announcement should have been made much later on. My guess is that it'll be a full year after the centenary special, before we fully see Doctor #14. It could have been made public at the end of Whittaker's run.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Positivatee said:

If the Doctor had control over his everything at the point of regeneration, what convinced Twelve that he wanted to become a female Doctor?

He does and he doesn't.

The Time Lords changed #2's appearance, by force, because he didn't like what they had chosen for him.

Romana changed her appearance several times, before settling (by choice) on looking like Princess Astra.

The presence of The Watcher would suggest that Doctor #4 would always end up looking like Doctor #5. Yeah, work that one out!

In Hell Bent, The General changed from male, to female, (possibly by choice), and, of course, Doctor #12 chose a face that he was familiar with, for his own reasons.

Why #12 decided (if he did decide), to change from one sex, to another, is anybody's guess.

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I wonder if we're meant to assume the Doctor being able to choose his regen face is a more recently developed ability, given the likes of Three, Five and Nine checking their reflections to see how they've turned out (and Five even says 'That's the trouble with regeneration ... you never quite know what you're going to get').

Also, why would Six have chosen the face of the over-zealous Commander Maxil (from Fifth Doctor story Arc Of Infinity) whose actions include knocking the Doctor unconscious in order to take him to the Time Lord Council?      

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