The Doctor Who Thread.....

[Disco Stu 15,495]

This was great fun to watch.

 

 

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

On 27/01/2022 at 10:28 PM, Sweeping Strings said:

I wonder if we're meant to assume the Doctor being able to choose his regen face is a more recently developed ability, given the likes of Three, Five and Nine checking their reflections to see how they've turned out (and Five even says 'That's the trouble with regeneration ... you never quite know what you're going to get').

Also, why would Six have chosen the face of the over-zealous Commander Maxil (from Fifth Doctor story Arc Of Infinity) whose actions include knocking the Doctor unconscious in order to take him to the Time Lord Council?      

 

I've always interpreted the Doctor's "choice" of face and personality not so much being a choice, but a quirk of Time Lord/Gallifreyan evolution; a survival mechanism designed to address some deep need of their subconscious to adapt and survive based on their surrounding environment or as a direct response to recent experiences. I've got a few head-canon theories as to why this works for me, not all of which is my original thinking but peppered with ideas that other fans have come up with over the years and probably even discussed here. The evidence I have is just based in Nu-Who, and often supported dialogue in the show (particularly Moffat's era, who makes a lot of these things explicit in the text). Here's my thoughts:

 

- War regenerated into 9, going from a tragic and grizzled warrior to an everyday man. Someone who could easily blend in (ears notwithstanding), isn't overtly eccentric and who has an easy charisma, textured with some sternness and hardness. It reflects his subconscious yearning to connect with people after the devastating Time War and the destruction of his entire race, but in a very guarded way.

 

- 9 regenerated into 10, a dashing, romantic, suave and energetic person with boyish good looks and a cheeky demeanour. This is largely due to his relationship with Rose, to become more like her (down to the cockney-light accent) and be the man she wanted. Her impact on him is obviously pretty significant; their connection allowed him to open up and as a result he wanted a bit of everything. He's the first openly sexual Doctor in this sense - a bit of a hedonist who enjoys the sensory delights and passions of life.

 

- 10 regenerated into 11, a fairy-tale character with an impossibly proportioned face and limbs more rubbery than a Warner Bros cartoon. After the deep trauma he experienced in his previous incarnation, this one is a lot more child-like in his appearance and interactions with the world (give or take some sexy banter), and generally more of an optimist than 10 ever was.

 

11 regenerated into 12, a spiky and aloof older man who, unlike the last few incarnations, finds it very difficult to connect with other people. I see this as reflecting the shame and guilt of how he manipulated people with his previous boyish appearance (especially Clara), instead opting for a face mirroring his actual age and alienness (those bug eyes and brows!). This is explicitly supported by Vastra's interrogation of Clara in Deep Breath:

 

Clara: You said renewed. He doesn’t look renewed. He looks… older.
Madame Vastra: You thought he was young?
Clara: He looked young.
Madame Vastra: He looked like your dashing young gentleman friend. Your lover even.
Clara: Shut up.
Madame Vastra: But he is the Doctor. He has walked this universe for centuries untold. He has seen stars fall to dust. You might as well flirt with a mountain range.
Clara: I did not flirt with him.
Madame Vastra: He flirted with you.
Clara: How?
Madame Vastra: He looked young. Who do you think that was for?
Clara: Me?
Madame Vastra: Everyone.

 

I also see Twelve as the first revival Doctor who is no longer burdened by the Time War and who was able to move on, so a lot of his coping mechanisms (including the heightened empathy) are completely reset, "factory default" if you will. There's also the Caecilius connection which is addressed on-screen, but I don't think that necessarily contradicts any of the other points, as the faces of the Doctor always serve multiple purposes.

 

Then we have 12 regenerating into 13. This one's a lot harder to pin down, largely due to Chibnall's hesitance to depict her beyond the superficial traits or examine the character of the Doctor in a meta way like Moffat frequently did. She's often contradictory, vacillating between being incredibly empathetic to almost callous in her dismissal of her companions emotional wellbeing (not to mention her gleeful triple-mass murders in Flux or leaving the Master to be killed by Nazis) . Thirteen emerges only after Twelve seriously considered ending his life (when he "refused" to regenerate), but was reminded of the good that he achieved in the past by Bill/Testament as well as his first incarnation. A lot of her personality echoes 10 (and 11) in so many ways, down to the eccentric speech pattern, so it could be seen as a reaffirmation of those qualities, a "greatest hits" compilation. In terms of the change in gender, I haven't really found anything really compelling to offer, but that could also be seen as evident of the fact that Time Lords don't appear to have concrete gender roles (at least as depicted in the revival, and at the very least not in the sense that we do). A change of sex may not have been a subconscious need as it was just the result of genetic probability.

 

I know this is all pretty obviously just fanwank, as the real-life explanations for the faces is far more straightforward, but the show has always invited fans to think about things in this way.

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

Ah, the Doctor's contradictory behaviour ... we could be here all day. Empathetic sometimes and coldly objective at others, anti-violence (except when he/she isn't), only interested in the companions in a friendly way (except for 9/10 and Rose) etc etc etc.   

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

Am watching Tom Baker's penultimate adventure The Keeper Of Traken, which introduces Nyssa as a companion. His last one (Logopolis) introduces Tegan. 

This has set me thinking ... is this the furthest into a Doctor's tenure that new companions have been introduced?  

[Tallguy 3,386]

Well... None of the other Doctor's did anything in their 7th season. But yeah, Turner was building Davison's first season out of Baker's last. (Including introducing Anthony Ainley's Master.)

 

Peri was introduced in Davison's second to last serial. I don't think any other companion comes close. So Tegan is the champ!

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

I've yet to watch Logopolis. Am interested to see how Tegan reacts to the Doctor regenerating so soon after meeting him. 

'None of the other Doctors did anything in their 7th season'. Probably because T Baker is the only one (to date) to have actually DONE a seventh season/series (second longest-running was his predecessor Pertwee, with 5).  

[Tallguy 3,386]

3 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

I've yet to watch Logopolis. Am interested to see how Tegan reacts to the Doctor regenerating so soon after meeting him. 

'None of the other Doctors did anything in their 7th season'. Probably because T Baker is the only one (to date) to have actually DONE a seventh season/series (second longest-running was his predecessor Pertwee, with 5).  

 

That was my point.

 

Doing some further research it looks like Poly and Ben joined the First Doctor for three serials (all four parters).

 

Neither the Second or the Third Doctor's changed companions in their last season. Zoe was the last addition to the Second Doctor's crew and was added well before his last season. Sarah Jane Smith joined for the Third Doctor's entire final season.

 

Mel joined the Sixth Doctor for his last two serials (one of which was a two parter) but it wasn't the intention at the time for that to be Baker's last show. Ace was with Seven for more than two seasons.

 

In nuWho the closest we've gotten was when Clara joined mid season in season seven. But she didn't know when she joined that Smith would be leaving as soon as she did. Otherwise all of the nuWho companions have been at least a season.

 

So, yeah. Four, Five, and Six are unusual (and all under John Nathan Turner).

 

I recall liking Logopolis rather a lot.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

Ok, it's stretching it a bit, but...K'anpo was a fellow timelord, and The Doctor's mentor, so...he could have been a companion 

[Jay 37,359]

Hugh Grant tipped to be new Doctor Who in 'Marvel-style makeover' for hit show

[Tom Guernsey 2,284]

26 minutes ago, Jay said:

Hugh Grant tipped to be new Doctor Who in 'Marvel-style makeover' for hit show

I smell bullshit but I wouldn’t be opposed to him being cast. Since his early fame as foppish English gent he’s become a pretty decent actor. His recent appearances in Charlie Brooker’s end of year spoof documentaries as a slightly racist old fashioned professor type were hilarious. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Yes, I won't take something as "big" as this seriously without at least several more sources, but Grant can be good, and if done right could probably make an interesting Doctor. As to that other quote:

 

Quote

“The vision is that the show can be a Marvel-like product, building franchises around the Doctor and other key characters in his many lives.”

 

…isn't that what they've been doing for years?

[Tallguy 3,386]

1) I don't believe it for a moment.

2) I can't wait for the crossover episode with Tom Hiddleston's James Bond

3) More seriously: If true (which it isn't) what kind of Hugh Grant? Standard "Four Weddings" Hugh (which might be too close to Matt Smith)? Or something more interesting like what he did in The Gentlemen? Not THAT part, per se. But something with more range like that?

4) Again, not for a moment.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Hugh Grant tipped to be new Doctor Who in 'Marvel-style makeover' for hit show

Again, Jay, it's the Daily Mirror. Let me repeat that, using words of two syllables, or less: The Daily Mirror. That should give you an indication of how genuine it is.

[Tom 4,658]

2 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Again, Jay, it's the Daily Mirror. Let me repeat that, using words of two syllables, or less: The Daily Mirror. That should give you an indication of how genuine it is.

Are you saying that we should not take this source for Granted? 

[Tallguy 3,386]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

Are you saying that we should not take this source for Granted? 

 

Hugh know what we mean. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Doctor Hugh?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

3 hours ago, Tom said:

Are you saying that we should not take this source for Granted? 

 

54 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Doctor Hugh?

It. Is. The. Daily. Mirror.

[Jay 37,359]

Hugh Grant Squashes Rumor That He Will Be the Next Doctor Who: ‘No Idea Where the Story Came From’

[Tallguy 3,386]

"Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland also confirm that they also will not be Doctor Who. J.J. Abrams denies that Khan will be the next Doctor Who."

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

Hugh Grant Squashes Rumor That He Will Be the Next Doctor Who: ‘No Idea Where the Story Came From’

It's "quashes", not "squashes". Geez, Louise, where did these people go to school?

 

The 14th Doctor will be Oli Alexander. Trust me on this 

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

My guess is the Grant rumour may have surfaced due to him being the lead in RTD's A Very English Scandal. I wouldn't mind him being the Doctor, since he got too old for romcoms he's emerged as a fine character actor. 



 

[Thor 7,504]

John Barrowman aka Captain Harkness always looked a bit like a young Hugh Grant anyway, so they've already "spent that card".

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

Legend Of The Sea Devils trailer - 
 

Here's hoping it is what it looks like ... a fun, swashbuckling adventure romp featuring a returned classic monster. That's literally all I want from it. 

Finished watching The Keeper Of Traken - good-looking production, there was clearly a few quid spent on the sets. Have started Galaxy 4 ... animated Hartnell in colour, delightful! 

[Richard Penna 3,687]

You've reminded me - I want to know why there's no Flux soundtrack yet. If Akinola's waiting for the entire series to finish first.... bad idea.

[Tom Guernsey 2,284]

10 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

You've reminded me - I want to know why there's no Flux soundtrack yet. If Akinola's waiting for the entire series to finish first.... bad idea.

Murray Gold series 10! Murray Gold series 10! Murray Gold series 10! Murray Gold series 10! 
 

Oh sorry what were you saying? ;-)

 

Actually I quite enjoyed some of the music in Flux. Not that I can remember anything about it. 

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

I fell for an April 1st post on Facebook by one of the Who pages that RTD was bringing back Murray Gold ... seemed credible enough at first, what with the producer from his initial showrunning tenure returning. 

Shame it was a wind-up ... while I can still hum 'I Am The Doctor' 12 years on, I can remember pretty much nothing of Akinola's. 

[Tom Guernsey 2,284]

1 hour ago, Sweeping Strings said:

I fell for an April 1st post on Facebook by one of the Who pages that RTD was bringing back Murray Gold ... seemed credible enough at first, what with the producer from his initial showrunning tenure returning. 

Shame it was a wind-up ... while I can still hum 'I Am The Doctor' 12 years on, I can remember pretty much nothing of Akinola's. 

It’s hard to see who else they might bring in given that it’s not just that RTD did lots of great stuff on Doctor Who but that he still scores everything else that RTD makes.

 

Totally with you on your other comment. I really wanted to give Anikola a chance and while there are moments, he just doesn’t have that remarkable gift for melody and enjoyable over the topness that MG brought to things. 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

5 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Legend Of The Sea Devils trailer - 
 

Here's hoping it is what it looks like ... a fun, swashbuckling adventure romp featuring a returned classic monster. That's literally all I want from it. 

Finished watching The Keeper Of Traken - good-looking production, there was clearly a few quid spent on the sets. Have started Galaxy 4 ... animated Hartnell in colour, delightful! 

This is another thing I’m looking forward to in the RTD2 run, an increase in production design quality - because nearly every shot in that trailer looks so artificial

 

It’s a staggering contrast compared to a similar swashbuckling setting in Curse of the Black Spot, which went all out with the boat effects to the point I think for some shots they were out on an actual ocean (could be wrong). Either way, my point is it had a nice grounded feel to it, despite being a Doctor Who production from nearly a decade ago

[Disco Stu 15,495]

The production quality notably increased during the Moffat era after the very cheap looking RTD era.  I love those seasons, but they got by with fun, charm, and good storytelling.

[Goldfinger 59]

Yeah, rewatching some random RTD episodes after Moffat or Chibnall really shows how much the production quality improved.  Despite what people will say about Chibnall, he puts the money on the screen and Flux looked tremendous despite being done on COVID restrictions and seriously limited in terms of shooting.  The Davies era looks like any sitcom or soap opera you might catch on tv during the era.  Of course they were extremely limited and stretching the budget any way they could, but it does have a very cheap look about it, especially being filmed in SD.

 

 

[IheartMelissaBenoist 35]

I must admit, one thing that has really annoyed me, is when Chibnall or Strevens have been touting their latest/upcoming/etc season... must they always bring up how "cinematic" it looks? It's always felt lopsided to me, in their promotional interviews and such, too much "cinematic-looking" versus "clever/smart/exciting scripting". Guys, get your scripts in better shape. I don't want gorgeous-looking crap, I'd rather mediocre-looking mediocrity-or-better.

 

But that's just me.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

As someone who always thought Torchwood, in all its forms, was a true atrocity, I was fully prepared for Chibnall Who to suck ass

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

First season of Torchwood seemed uncertain of how it wanted to be, tonally and whatnot. It had settled by the second, and I found the third (5 episodes, shown across 5 consecutive nights) very good. 

But the fourth ... ugh. I didn't even finish watching it, moving the action largely to the States worked badly against it IMHO. Gwen's line about lemonade in one of the eps I did see summed it up nicely - 'Fizzy in the UK, flat in the US'.   

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

On 04/04/2022 at 7:02 PM, Sweeping Strings said:

I can still hum 'I Am The Doctor' 12 years on...

Ah, yes, but... can you hum The Master's Theme, from TERROR OF THE AUTONS, or the Delaware synth farts, from THE SEA DEVILS, or the lovely descending tune in CITY OF DEATH? Hmm? Child?

[DarthDementous 1,059]

On 05/04/2022 at 10:28 AM, Stu said:

The production quality notably increased during the Moffat era after the very cheap looking RTD era.  I love those seasons, but they got by with fun, charm, and good storytelling.

Perhaps, but they do have the benefit of being in an era where TV CGI is very nascent and thus sparsely used. As a result there's quite a few aspects of those seasons that hold up better than future attempts because of the necessity to do so much entirely practically in comparison

RTD and Bad Wolf productions are very good at getting the most out of a limited budget, so I'm kind of chomping at the bit to see what a production with more money behind it relatively would look like

[Tallguy 3,386]

We watched The Wasp and the Unicorn last night and The Eleventh Hour tonight. I miss Gold so much.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

These are both fine episodes. All things considered, I'd say that THE ELEVENTH HOUR is my favourite Smith story.

THE UNICORN AND THE WASP has always been a firm favourite. It has a great ensemble cast, and it's good to see Christopher Benjamin, back in DW.

Assured direction by Graeme Harper, makes this a superior Tennant story.

 

"Murder at the vicar's rage" 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

10 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

Sorry.

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

Having recently read Robots Of Death sequel novel 'Corpse Marker', I've embarked upon a rewatch of ROD ... great stuff. Agatha Christie in space essentially, long before she would actually feature in the prog in the aforementioned 'Unicorn And The Wasp'. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

ROBOTS OF DEATH is a classic story, in Phillip Hinchcliffe's "gothic era" DW.

Leela (sigh ♥️)

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

Pamela Salem too   .

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

Oh, yes! I forgot about her.

She's also in REMEMBRANCE OF THE DALEKS, and her voice is heard in THE FACE OF EVIL.

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

 

On 05/04/2022 at 11:41 PM, Naïve Old Fart said:

Ah, yes, but... can you hum The Master's Theme, from TERROR OF THE AUTONS, or the Delaware synth farts, from THE SEA DEVILS, or the lovely descending tune in CITY OF DEATH? Hmm? Child?

As I think I've previously said, I am seeing much of Classic Who for the first time 'nowadays' on DVD as I thought it looked too scary to watch at the time (I was a timid child, lol). So I can maybe be forgiven for not having the show's music from then lodged in my memory.

Child ... hehehe, all that 'My child, dear boy, my dear' stuff (along with his little chuckles) are the most appealing things about the Hartnell Doctor for me. He 'twinkles' wonderfully.   

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

I remember watching DW as a child, and - literally - hiding behind the sofa.

Hartnell always had a little twinkle, in his eye. Doctor #1 (the original, you might say) always had a very playful, mischievous quality. That's why, for me, Hartnell, like the Sycorax, rocks.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

Has anyone seen it, yet? I'm watching it tomorrow, at a friend's house.

Meanwhile, I've read that 

Spoiler

Tegan, and Ace

 

are returning.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

4 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Has anyone seen it, yet? I'm watching it tomorrow, at a friend's house.

Meanwhile, I've read that 

  Reveal hidden contents

Tegan, and Ace

 

are returning.

That was sadly the most intriguing part of the episode for me, and it's not even in the episode. Although from the Next Time trailer they're very clearly throwing everything at the wall, an approach that Flux shows is not a good idea with the current production.

Standard Chibnall Who fare, couldn't even tell there was a guest writer on this. What I will give props for is that the last scene actually mustered something close to an emotionally resonant scene for this era, even if it is treading old ground. Really not a fan of 13 saying that Yaz is one of the greatest people she's known, Yaz has done absolutely nothing for her in comparison to The Doctor's other companions, and it feels like a retcon to prop up new characters rather than something the character organically came to believe.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

The central character has to be very weak for me to admit that a companion has been the best part of a show, but I truly think that Yaz has been the best thing about 13's tenure. I just hope they don't go and spoil it all, by having some silly lesbian one-on-one girly action.

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

I've recorded it, was out last night ... this is the first Easter break with normalised opening hours for pubs, entertainment venues etc in NI's history and therefore a new Who ep wasn't enough to keep me in the house. Once it might have been, but oh well. 

Am hoping that with it being a 'historical', we won't be subjected to lectures from the Sea Devils about the state of the oceans (although if they'd been the 'opposition' in Praxeus for that reason, that episode would've been much improved IMO).   

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

I'm just looking forward to hearing the Sea Devils "whisper", once more, since 1973 (sorry, but I don't count WARRIORS OF THE DEEP ).

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

I thought it was ... not bad. It felt weird to have a special that was pretty much standard episode length as opposed to an hour, and compared to the penultimate episodes of other Doctors it felt ... well, kind of low-key really. I think my favourite thing about it was the line about Stephen King adaptations. 

They're clearly throwing everything at the wall of the Tardis console room to see what sticks for Whittaker's finale, including the return(s) of - 

 

Spoiler

Dhawan's Master, Ace and Tegan 

- so we shall see. Also the announcement of the new Doctor will be soon-ish, apparently. 

Chibnall has said he fully expects RTD to ignore what he's done, so maybe we'll get to pretend the Timeless Child thing never happened.