Brónach 1,302 Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 I think a lot of Moffat episodes were also worse once he started writing a bunch more every season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 14 hours ago, Brónach said: I think a lot of Moffat episodes were also worse once he started writing a bunch more every season It’s possible, I think part of it is down to Moffat being a far better one-off idea writer than a writer that can sustain multiple ideas across a whole series, which is why after Series 5 those arcs started getting very wonky. His worst episodes tend to be finales where long-running threads need to be wrapped up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,383 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 3 hours ago, DarthDementous said: His worst episodes tend to be finales where long-running threads need to be wrapped up Which is why Time of the Doctor is a miracle and a classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 To me it's clear that Moffat, like most writers, can write wonderfully when given autonomy and time. But the pressures of being executive producer, lead writer, etc were always going to mean drop in quality in his individual episodes. There's a reason series 5 is so damn strong, and that's because he had over a year of not being the showrunner to come up with his ideas and draft his scripts. Things weren't helped when Sherlock became an unexpected smash hit and he had two wildly successful shows to run. The production issues hampering the show in 2012/2013 coincided with his era's weakest episodes (with the sole exceptions being Day and Time of the Doctor, which he obviously had a lot of time to work on). He had a much better flow by the time Capaldi entered the picture and that shows in his writing as well - two of his standalone scripts (Listen and Heaven Sent) during that time are the best he's ever made for the show IMO. Reading through RTD's Writers Tale gives a detailed picture of what the job looks like. It's hard to write an excellent script when you're busy approving CGI from one episode while madly rewriting another episode written by someone else. It's a miracle anything makes it to the screen. It also gives me some empathy for Chibnall who clearly struggled with the demands of the job as well. Brónach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,683 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 I suspect that fan demand/outcry is a lot stronger on Who than Broadchurch and will more readily expose weaknesses in storytelling. The problems in his latter episodes with his 'sermons' is not inherent, I don't think. You could do an exciting, fun, mysterious plot and simply have a topical issue as part of it - Rosa was a nice example of that done well, although he's not winning any brownie points for that 2D villain. Unfortunately much of the time he focused too much on those issues at the expensive of the elements that make Who. Makes me wonder whether he pitched his ideas to the BBC and everyone realised too late that he'd got the balance wrong, or whether they just left him to it. Now I will give Chibnall kudos for that episode set in the storage facility. That was an engaging, thrilling and fun standalone mystery. It gave us a glimpse of what he can do when he turns off the 'social issues' part of his writing. Also, I noticed that the odd episode that I really liked didn't seem to be popular generally. I rather liked the episode with that little metal-eating creature in series 11, but it doesn't sound like many others did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,352 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Things about that episode is that I would've preferred the creature to have been a 7-feet tall thing of terror as opposed to something that looks like it got lost on its way to a Disney movie, although I will concede its initial appearance makes for quite a nice visual gag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 20 hours ago, Tallguy said: Which is why Time of the Doctor is a miracle and a classic. I feel the same way about that finale as I do with all of Moffat’s others except for Series 5 There’s one idea I absolutely love, in this case it’s the aged 11th Doctor having one final Christmas with Clara, but then the rest feels very clumsy. Really not a fan of having big villains showing up as just cameos to be quickly dispatched , really cheapens their threat. Impressively, unless I’m forgetting something, RTD managed to avoid this. Whenever the Daleks showed up it was *their* episode, and I think that’s part of why they feel best handled under his run As for writing under pressure I feel like RTD is an anomaly in that regard. He delivered his strongest season (4) and best episodes (Turn Left and Midnight) while simultaneously working on *three* other shows (Sarah Jane Adventures, Torchwood, and Doctor Who Confidential) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,383 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 20 hours ago, Docteur Qui said: with the sole exceptions being Day and Time of the Doctor, which he obviously had a lot of time to work on I gather that was actually not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Tallguy said: I gather that was actually not the case. You are correct, Moffat has bemoaned how difficult that script was to write and how getting to do a novelisation of it was a dream in comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 I mean, more time comparative to a regular series of the show; 2013 had the back half of Series 7 and the two specials (plus Night of the Doctor), compared to the full run of 14 episodes in previous years. The gap between Time and Series 8 was the longest the revival had until the full year in 2016. I understand it was probably hellish, but he clearly spent more time on those two scripts than any individual one in series 7, and it shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,683 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Unlike US shows which I gather start airing long before filming is finished (more like an assembly line of episodes in the case of 24, Lost, etc) The BBC finish filming long before broadcast don't they, so the ideas and character movements are mostly set in stone long before they know the audience reaction. Hence I don't doubt for a moment that the Who showrunner must be one of the hardest jobs there is, and for that reason I fully appreciate the difficult job Chibnall had to do. We can only disagree with a lot of the creative decisions he made. Docteur Qui 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 16 hours ago, DarthDementous said: I feel the same way about that finale as I do with all of Moffat’s others except for Series 5 There’s one idea I absolutely love, in this case it’s the aged 11th Doctor having one final Christmas with Clara, but then the rest feels very clumsy. Really not a fan of having big villains showing up as just cameos to be quickly dispatched , really cheapens their threat. Impressively, unless I’m forgetting something, RTD managed to avoid this. Whenever the Daleks showed up it was *their* episode, and I think that’s part of why they feel best handled under his run As for writing under pressure I feel like RTD is an anomaly in that regard. He delivered his strongest season (4) and best episodes (Turn Left and Midnight) while simultaneously working on *three* other shows (Sarah Jane Adventures, Torchwood, and Doctor Who Confidential) avalanche of RTD Daleks here it comes, because he loves them unless he becomes reasonable and realizes it's stale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 The Daleks had a well-earned rest, from 1967 - 1972, and returned with... DAY OF THE DALEKS. Oh, dear. Subsequent stories weren't good, until GENESIS OF THE DALEKS. Nu Who manages to treat them, mostly, with respect, even if some of the ideas are old (DALEKS IN MANHATTAN borrowed, heavily, from REVELATION OF THE DALEKS). I don't mind The Daleks. I'd rather have them, than The Weeping Angels, or the entirety of FLUX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,352 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Moffat said the difficulty in featuring them is that there has to be a really good reason for them to be back, as logically they would just give up and leave upon discovering they're up against the Doctor again given how often he's beaten them. DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Is the rumoured deal with Terry Nation's estate still in place? I.e. that they need to be featured in every series otherwise they will permanently revoke the rights? It's a maddening situation to be in, but it's led to some pretty creative ways to address the situation (like Adelaide as a child seeing a Crucible Dalek from Stolen Earth/Journey's End and realising it didn't kill her for a reason). 23 hours ago, DarthDementous said: As for writing under pressure I feel like RTD is an anomaly in that regard. He delivered his strongest season (4) and best episodes (Turn Left and Midnight) while simultaneously working on *three* other shows (Sarah Jane Adventures, Torchwood, and Doctor Who Confidential) Indeed, and as an aside this bodes well for the show's future; one of many reasons I imagine RTD is returning is to shepherd a plethora of Whoniverse spinoffs in the future. He's said it before; it's a world that deserves just as much creative output as Marvel or Star Wars. If there's one way to secure the show's legacy it's to get this stuff going and inspire more creatives to get involved with it. Future writers and showrunners of the flagship can earn their stripes working on spinoffs, just like the "old guard" did with the Target novels and Big Finish stories. DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,383 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 I'd heard that the "use it or lose it" thing with the Daleks was a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,352 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 7 hours ago, Docteur Qui said: Is the rumoured deal with Terry Nation's estate still in place? I.e. that they need to be featured in every series otherwise they will permanently revoke the rights? It's a maddening situation to be in, but it's led to some pretty creative ways to address the situation (like Adelaide as a child seeing a Crucible Dalek from Stolen Earth/Journey's End and realising it didn't kill her for a reason). Indeed, and as an aside this bodes well for the show's future; one of many reasons I imagine RTD is returning is to shepherd a plethora of Whoniverse spinoffs in the future. He's said it before; it's a world that deserves just as much creative output as Marvel or Star Wars. If there's one way to secure the show's legacy it's to get this stuff going and inspire more creatives to get involved with it. Future writers and showrunners of the flagship can earn their stripes working on spinoffs, just like the "old guard" did with the Target novels and Big Finish stories. This is what's happening, I think ... RTD's said he has big plans. I like the idea of future 'staff' for Who itself working on the peripheral shows first ... we've seen how first-time TV writers doing 'the main show' has panned out during the recent era :S . Docteur Qui 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Doctor Who Season 14 Adds Neil Patrick Harris as Villain Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,683 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Count Olaf meets the Doctor. Neat! Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Great addition! I love that RTD snagged Harris for the special(s), he was great in It's a Sin. The rumour mill has all but figured out who he'll be playing (spoilers below) Spoiler The Celestial Toymaker! The picture below was taken from a filming location. I haven't seen any of the serial myself (which I understand is among the missing, save for its last episode). Apparently the villain has reality-warping abilities, which could explain why the Doctor has degenerated into Ten. Gosh I love being excited about this show again! DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 The Celestial Toymaker? Has RTD decided to film THE NIGHTMARE FAIR? It won't be the same without Michael Gough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 On 25/05/2022 at 2:00 AM, Tallguy said: I'd heard that the "use it or lose it" thing with the Daleks was a myth. i hope so, and that RTD gets over his Dalek addiction Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 I agree, but Doctor Who without The Daleks, is like Star Wars without Darth Vader, or Star Trek without the Klingons. Used sparingly, they can pack quite a wallop (DALEK). It's a shame that they have been very overused, since 2005, almost to the point of parody. It's no secret that Pertwee hated them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 if we had like, a single DALEK out of the sudden every decade, it would be very fun Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Also, I agree. Unfortunately, the concept of "less is more" is not something that RTD knows much about Brónach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondFire 67 Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Brónach said: if we had like, a single DALEK out of the sudden every decade, it would be very fun Sucks that they can't just do that and there has to be an appearance every season. However, how Moffat avoided it every once and a while was good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 21 hours ago, Brónach said: i hope so, and that RTD gets over his Dalek addiction Considering the Dalek stories in his era were pretty good overall I for one welcome this addiction. Consistently pretty intimidating as well 20 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said: Also, I agree. Unfortunately, the concept of "less is more" is not something that RTD knows much about cough Midnight cough Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 "Midnight" is good, but it is the exception which proves the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said: "Midnight" is good, but it is the exception which proves the rule. I wouldn't be so sure, 'Turn Left' is another example of doing a lot with a little. RTD gets bombastic and kitchen sink-y for his finales there's no denying that, but he's a remarkably efficient storyteller. Much easier seen in his non-Doctor Who work Actually, I'd also nominate Children of Earth as an example of making something very effective by creating what is essentially a minimalist alien invasion. Works wonders for the terror of the situation and allows the focus to primarily be the effect on the people, which is something RTD has always excelled at in sci-fi and was sorely missed in the new era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 I suppose this will be RTDish but different However "bring back David Tennant" seems awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,383 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Brónach said: I suppose this will be RTDish but different However "bring back David Tennant" seems awful Hey! It could be the Diamonds Are Forever of Doctor Who! Or maybe Never Say Never Again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 For anyone who can get to their local flea-pit; the two Doctor Who Peter Cushing movies are being rereleased as a double bill. Ok, so they are not canon, but they are fun to watch, so who gives. Tallguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,383 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Those would be interesting to see on the big screen. I suppose when I saw these back in the 1980's on Saturday morning TV I was so overwhelmed by the not-Doctor and the not-TARDIS (What? WHAT? WHAAAT?!?!?) that I completely missed that these were MOVIES that were shown on a movie screen. And they had budgets that while not vast by movie standards had to have dwarfed the TV show's money. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,352 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 I bought them on standard DVD during lockdown 1, I've yet to get around to watching them. There's something very pleasing about Bernard Cribbins being in one of them and in modern Who also (and being back for the 60th too, wheelchair and all ... for which the Tardis has been fitted with a ramp, apparently). As well as NPH apparently as the Celestial Toymaker, a creature bearing a strong resemblance to this guy has been seen on set - https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Beep Gotta love RTD's nerdiness, including a villain from the Doctor Who Weekly comic strip from 40 years ago. Naïve Old Fart and DarthDementous 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 This sounds promising. He won't be able to outdo Michael Gough, but I'm looking forward to watching it. Wasn't Omega rumoured to be returning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,352 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 Was in Liverpool Sun - Wed for a break - if you happen to be visiting the city between now and the end of October, the 'Doctor Who : Worlds Of Wonder' exhibition at the World Museum is HIGHLY recommended to all my fellow Whovians (and I believe that after that, it's becoming a touring exhibition). Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 I want to recommend people to listen to the War Master range in Big Finish starring Derek Jacobi (Professor YANA) as the titular character It's really on the top shelf of Big Finish stuff, and if you're feeling disenfranchised lately by villains getting the starring role and being watered down then look no farther than this series. Probably some of the most heinous and intimately evil stuff the Master has ever done, this incarnation is absolutely terrifying in a Hannibal Lecter-type way where he's all smiles and even lulls you into a false sense of security before revealing the utter monster he is. It's very harrowing to get to know a group of characters and even like them and witness their lives be absolutely destroyed by his machinations and yet still kind of root for him, some seriously disturbing stuff. Derek Jacobi is now the definitive Master to me, what a fantastic actor that I'm glad finally got his due after being snubbed for a proper incarnation of the iconic villain Very much plays up The Doctor and Master parallels too, you can really get a sense of how The Doctor with all of his abilities could've gone down the route the Master did Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Apparently, the costume for the 14th Doctor has been published. Has anyone seen it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said: Apparently, the costume for the 14th Doctor has been published. Has anyone seen it? I don’t think that’s true, just rumours including one where his shoes are going to be wellies Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,352 Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 There's some rumour that he'll be seen at one point in a shirt and trainers, thumping the Tardis console with an oversized mallet. Of course, it's possible that it originated with somebody who saw the new Thor movie and then got a bit confused, lol. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 5 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said: There's some rumour that he'll be seen at one point in a shirt and trainers, thumping the Tardis console with an oversized mallet. Of course, it's possible that it originated with somebody who saw the new Thor movie and then got a bit confused, lol. I like that you pretty much described the 10th Doctor Sweeping Strings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,352 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Any indicator that RTD recalls that the show's meant to have a sense of fun is fine by me! Naïve Old Fart and Docteur Qui 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Oh, my word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,352 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Although, strangely enough ... have been watching The Romans, which was deliberately written in a lighter style than other First Doctor adventures and apparently this approach was not appreciated by viewers . DarthDementous and Naïve Old Fart 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 The Doctor wearing wellingtons is probably the most on-the-nose, British costuming choice since... a tweed suit or cricketer's uniform. I'm on board if it's true, though they'd better be good for running, otherwise Ncuti's going to ruin his knees like Capaldi and Smith did! The Curse of the Doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,352 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Certainly a suitably eccentric choice for the Doctor, if not the most practical (unless the Tardis rocks up on Dagobah or summat, lol). Docteur Qui 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,683 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Akinola won't be continuing for RTD 2.0. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,282 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: Akinola won't be continuing for RTD 2.0. Not the worst news I have to say. Of course now it’s finding out if Murray Gold is returning… although if he doesn’t, who would you want instead? My vote would go to Bear McCreary if he was minded or do more tv! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dave 217 Posted July 20, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 20, 2022 18 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: who would you want instead? David Arnold. Naïve Old Fart, Bofur01 and Tom Guernsey 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 50 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: Not the worst news I have to say. Of course now it’s finding out if Murray Gold is returning… although if he doesn’t, who would you want instead? My vote would go to Bear McCreary if he was minded or do more tv! No way, like the Doctor the composer needs to be British! I second Arnold. He’s done Bond, now he needs to do the other 60-year old British franchise featuring a man whose face changes every few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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